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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 13, 2009, 06:56:49 PM



Title: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 13, 2009, 06:56:49 PM
Brothers and Sisters

Before I present my critique of the Khorassan movement, I would like to take the time to explain my background and positions to better contextualize my argument.

I am a Pashtun. I am a proud Pashtun. If this fact alone, makes me a target of hate in your eyes than so be it. Your ignorance will condemn you, not me. This critique of mine is not addressed to you whose heart is filled with hate, as it is obvious that logic is foreign to you, and thus I do not wish to waste my breath on you.

I hope to speak to those proud Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens and Hazaras who- while cognizant of history also acknowledge reality- have hate for those who hate them. To them I say, I have no hate for you.

As a Muslim, as an Afghan, I could never hate a people who have contributed what your people has contributed to the world. I could never hate those who have never hated me. I appreciate and respect your history, culture and most importantly your grievances.

I acknowledge the bloodshed of Ahmad Shah, the brutality of Abdul Rahman, the treachery of Nader, the incompetence of Zahir, and the ignorance of Khar Omar.

I would assume that you would all condemn the ignorance and criminality that has emerged from your communities, but I will not tie my condemnation to yours, as I condemn with no preconditions.

I acknowledge that Afghanistans name and borders are fabricated and imposed. Khorasaan is a more appropriate name for the region, history confirms this.

Ideally the north would belong to Bukhara, the west to Persia and the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan a Pakhtunkhwa.

However the current arrangement is what we are stuck with. We have no choice. International law has accepted the legality of colonial borders. The current borders of Afghanistan is as much a disservice to Pashtuns as it is to non Pashtuns.  We don’t appreciate being separated from our brothers any more than you do from yours.

Having said that, here is my critiques of the Khorassan movement

It is not practical.

Again as a I stated,  international law has accepted the legality of colonial borders. Redrawing the map of Afghanistan would require us to involve nuclear Pakistan, powerful Iran and the central asian states that are controlled by the Russians, not to mention the US, China and Intl bodies would be involved.

It is a fantasy

It exists on line. Period. It is no different than playing Risk or Counter strike, or Dungeons and Dragons. There is no means to actualize these fantasies in Afghanistan. The majority of Afghans identify as an Afghan citizen as opposed to their ethnicities.

It works on paper only

Right now non Pashtuns are united in their shared oppression at the hands of Pashtuns historically, as soon as we are removed from the equation you will fight amongst yourselves. There is nothing to indicate there will all of a suidden be a miraculous peace, love and harmony amongst the people. There are linguistic differences, cultural differences, religious differences. Anti Pashtunism can only unite so much.

It will replace one form of subjugation for another

If not the subjugation of one ethnicity over the other, then the subjugation of Khorasannis by Iranians or Russians. Your brothers in the north have lost their faith and even their Persian script. Also actions in central Asia demonstrate that even amongst Uzbeks and Tajiks, there is some conflict. Is not Samarkand and Bukhara Tajik cities? Do you think Iran would accept the independence of a Pan Iranic state? Do you think the Shia theocracy would accept a largely Sunni Persian state. You would be seen as rivals not allies

I think that we need to face the realization that for better of for worse, Afghanistan is our homeland. We need to work together to ensure a multi ethnic, secular state with respect for all. A democracy with respect to human rights and the rule of law will ensure all ethnicities are given a fair share. We need to remove the biases against languages and cultures. I would accept even Khorasan as our name, except many of you have affiliated this beautiful name with anti Pashtunism

I look forward to some intellectual responses. Please share your views

Khuda Hafiz



 



Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 13, 2009, 06:58:49 PM
Just to add, please do not confuse my critique of a seccessionist Khorassani movement, with the culture movement of Khorassan which seeks to appreciate and acknowledge your culture and history. I could never stand between that


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Lindt on May 13, 2009, 10:32:58 PM
Salam bro and welcome to the forums

I'm finding it confusing to know where you stand - are you all for a divided Afghanistan? You have stated what is already well know and documented, but have not given your personal opinion about these conflicting ideas.

I'd like to add that not everyone in here wants a divided Afghanistan - I certainly do not! History is history, ALL nation-states are artificial but we should accept and work on what we already have if we want our kin to prosper. In my honest opinion, Khorasani movements as well as Loy Afghanistan movements are a waste of time and only hinder development in lifestyle, healthcare and education amongst Afghans.
 I appreciate your post btw :)





Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Ahhangar on May 14, 2009, 08:55:24 AM
Brothers and Sisters

Before I present my critique of the Khorassan movement, I would like to take the time to explain my background and positions to better contextualize my argument.

I am a Pashtun. I am a proud Pashtun. If this fact alone, makes me a target of hate in your eyes than so be it. Your ignorance will condemn you, not me. This critique of mine is not addressed to you whose heart is filled with hate, as it is obvious that logic is foreign to you, and thus I do not wish to waste my breath on you.

I hope to speak to those proud Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens and Hazaras who- while cognizant of history also acknowledge reality- have hate for those who hate them. To them I say, I have no hate for you.

As a Muslim, as an Afghan, I could never hate a people who have contributed what your people has contributed to the world. I could never hate those who have never hated me. I appreciate and respect your history, culture and most importantly your grievances.

I acknowledge the bloodshed of Ahmad Shah, the brutality of Abdul Rahman, the treachery of Nader, the incompetence of Zahir, and the ignorance of Khar Omar.

I would assume that you would all condemn the ignorance and criminality that has emerged from your communities, but I will not tie my condemnation to yours, as I condemn with no preconditions.

I acknowledge that Afghanistans name and borders are fabricated and imposed. Khorasaan is a more appropriate name for the region, history confirms this.

Ideally the north would belong to Bukhara, the west to Persia and the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan a Pakhtunkhwa.

However the current arrangement is what we are stuck with. We have no choice. International law has accepted the legality of colonial borders. The current borders of Afghanistan is as much a disservice to Pashtuns as it is to non Pashtuns.  We don’t appreciate being separated from our brothers any more than you do from yours.

Having said that, here is my critiques of the Khorassan movement

It is not practical.

Again as a I stated,  international law has accepted the legality of colonial borders. Redrawing the map of Afghanistan would require us to involve nuclear Pakistan, powerful Iran and the central asian states that are controlled by the Russians, not to mention the US, China and Intl bodies would be involved.

It is a fantasy

It exists on line. Period. It is no different than playing Risk or Counter strike, or Dungeons and Dragons. There is no means to actualize these fantasies in Afghanistan. The majority of Afghans identify as an Afghan citizen as opposed to their ethnicities.

It works on paper only

Right now non Pashtuns are united in their shared oppression at the hands of Pashtuns historically, as soon as we are removed from the equation you will fight amongst yourselves. There is nothing to indicate there will all of a suidden be a miraculous peace, love and harmony amongst the people. There are linguistic differences, cultural differences, religious differences. Anti Pashtunism can only unite so much.

It will replace one form of subjugation for another

If not the subjugation of one ethnicity over the other, then the subjugation of Khorasannis by Iranians or Russians. Your brothers in the north have lost their faith and even their Persian script. Also actions in central Asia demonstrate that even amongst Uzbeks and Tajiks, there is some conflict. Is not Samarkand and Bukhara Tajik cities? Do you think Iran would accept the independence of a Pan Iranic state? Do you think the Shia theocracy would accept a largely Sunni Persian state. You would be seen as rivals not allies

I think that we need to face the realization that for better of for worse, Afghanistan is our homeland. We need to work together to ensure a multi ethnic, secular state with respect for all. A democracy with respect to human rights and the rule of law will ensure all ethnicities are given a fair share. We need to remove the biases against languages and cultures. I would accept even Khorasan as our name, except many of you have affiliated this beautiful name with anti Pashtunism

I look forward to some intellectual responses. Please share your views

Khuda Hafiz


Why do you assume a Khurasan movement would want to divide or redrawn any borders ?  That is your fallacy.  The people whom want to redrawn borders are the Pukhtunistan irredentists - so talk to them. These seem to think that Pashtuns are the core of the country and interpret everything along those lines.

This Afghanistan - as it is drawn on the map - all of it is Khurasan. The real - native - original name of that land is Khurasan - and          ' 'Afghanistan' is a colonial imposition of European manufacture.   The very term Afghan is tribal and anti-unity for the people of that land.

Of course Iran is no friend of Tajiks - they are friends of Shia Hazara first and Pashtun tribalists second - and Tajiks last - as is shown in their history.  The whole regional system in that part of the world is created on the basis of crushing Persianate Sunnite identity of the land.  British in the south and east and Russian in north - Shia Turk in the west.  We have plenty of enemies - and redrawing border is indeed unrealistic. We know that it was us whom fought and created this space free from the further encroachment of the various empires.

The very concept of Afghanistan is what people have problem with - not the land or its borders. 

Khurasan is indeed anti Pashtunism. It is for a single official language - Parsi e Dari - as it was in all history - as it was in the time of Amir Abdur Rahman Khan.





Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 14, 2009, 01:56:56 PM
Lindt

I dont want to see my country divided. I was only speaking in the hypothetical. That ideally, each ethnicity would have their own state, but that is not nor will ever be the case, so we should focus on our homes

Ahhangar

I agree with many of your points, however I condemn your statement that Khorassan stands for anti Pashtunism. Why should it? Are Pashtuns not citizens of that land? Our we not an Iranic people? I agree that Dari/Farsi is the lingua franca of our country, and attempts to change this by force have not only failed but created resentment of Pashto. But must we condemn and ban Pashto?

I oppose any attempts to enforce Pashto as Dari/Farsi has long been the language of business, communication and Academia. But surely as Pashtuns we are entitled to have our own language schools. Would our country not be better served if as much citizens were bilingual as possible? Again, there is no denying Daris predominance, but is not viable to have our federal civil service/govt officials be bilingual?


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 14, 2009, 01:57:55 PM
And I do not assume all pro Khorassanis are independence minded but a significant portion are. and the ones that technically arent, propose such policies that if the country does remain one it is a country which marginalizes an entire race,


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Ahhangar on May 14, 2009, 08:08:11 PM
Lindt

I dont want to see my country divided. I was only speaking in the hypothetical. That ideally, each ethnicity would have their own state, but that is not nor will ever be the case, so we should focus on our homes

Ahhangar

I agree with many of your points, however I condemn your statement that Khorassan stands for anti Pashtunism. Why should it? Are Pashtuns not citizens of that land? Our we not an Iranic people? I agree that Dari/Farsi is the lingua franca of our country, and attempts to change this by force have not only failed but created resentment of Pashto. But must we condemn and ban Pashto?

I oppose any attempts to enforce Pashto as Dari/Farsi has long been the language of business, communication and Academia. But surely as Pashtuns we are entitled to have our own language schools. Would our country not be better served if as much citizens were bilingual as possible? Again, there is no denying Daris predominance, but is not viable to have our federal civil service/govt officials be bilingual?


Anti Pashtunism is not anti Pashtun people. It is anti - the Pashtu and Pashtun centric view on all thing relating to national life of the state. It is the stopping of the promotion of tribalism and the encouragement of the removal of tribal identities and structures.

All languages of the land, no matter how few speakers it has, deserve the title of 'national language'. This recognition will basically recognize those languages as national assets - to be protected by the state.

Schooling language  - should be in local and Parsi e Dari upto end of primary level - age 11 - but after the educational language to be just Parsi e Dari. This does not mean pupils shall not have options to take literature courses in their own languages or any of the other national languages - along side compulsory Parsi e Dari literature course.

Khurasan with official language - Parsi e Dari.

This will encourage the breakdown of tribal identities and engender true - legitimate national unity - whilst recognizing the historic ties that land has to the entire region giving it the capability to influence neighboring states - through the multilingual abilities of the some of the citizens. The future is that of greater and greater coming together of states into unions.

Ahhangar


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 15, 2009, 03:11:38 AM
Dear Amir al Ghaznavi,

Tajikam believes in freedom of speech and anyone from any background can participate in this forum.

Afghanistan is a failed concept and there is no way in bringing this dead concept alive again. not always does Unity help a region become stable but disintegration has been proven in numerous regions to bring peace and stability. our people are frustrated with Pashtuns and the ground reality is that non-Pashtuns cannot get along with Pashtuns. This does not mean we hate Pashtuns but it means we cannot co-exist with them peacefully. Partition or disintegration is an alternative we cannot run away from because Afghanistan is running out of other alternatives.

separating the south and the north will bring us closer and who knows maybe in a century we will unite again but unity right now is impossible. not every Pashtun is like you, most Pashtuns would right now label you as a Tajik wannabe for saying these things and we cannot change our attitude and agenda because of a small minority within the Pashtun masses who are speaking out against Pan Pashtunism.

Khorasan is not a fantasy. Afghanistan is already separated into two defacto states (the stable north and the radical south). Pakistan is also heading towards disintegration and Ahmad Rashid was predicted that itmight happen very soon maybe in a few years. Once a Pashtunistan is created out of NWFP the southern regions of Afghanistan that are controlled by the Taliban will join this Pashtunistan and this will cause Khorasan's independence.

most non-Pashtuns are Persian-speakers and they belong to the Persian civilization. What matters it that the majority in Khorasan will be Persians,Tajiks(including Aimaqs) and Hazaras, and differences between these two ethnicities is very little. the Turks, Nuristanis, Pashayis do not have the capabilities to stand against the Tajiks or the Persian-speakers in an independent Khorasan they will have no choise but to accept this country and in return they will be given rights. Uzbeks are unable to unite with Uzbekistan because Jowsjan and Faryab share a border with Turkmenistan not Uzbekistan.

Tajikistanis have not lost anything. Their script is taught in schools and now it is mandatory to study the Persian script from 2nd grade-11th grade. Tajikistanis are proud of their culture and heritage and the center for Persian nationalism right now is Tajikistan.

Iranians are our brothers and we will have close relations with them. There is no reason for them to be against us lol. If Iran was against another Persian state they would have been hostile towards Tajikistan but the truth is that Iran is pouring money in Tajikistan and is helping Tajikistan's economy and social issues.

Iran is a shia state but this does not mean they are against Sunnis. There are more Persian sunnis in Iran than Baluchi Sunnis and the Persian Sunnis in Iran are free and they are happy about the government. Religion is not the only facor that is thought of in Iran's policy making. There are as much Nationalists in Iran's current government as Akhonds and most of the cadres are pro Persian and even the president of Iran and some of his ministers were  former Pan-Iranists. Iraqi-Kurdistan is a sunni region but Iran is helping them become autonomous and independent. A secular republic of Khorasan (Sunnite and Shiite ideologies will be nonexistent in the government) will serve as a bridge for Iran to connect itself with China. anyone that disagrees with me and thinks the current administration in Iran is more sympathetic towards Shias instead of Persians then this only shows they lack info. Mazar e Sharif, a Tajik sunni city, is flourishing because of Iranian investors and millions have been given to Balkh's government to start cultural programs in Balkh and to revive the true identity of Balkh which is Persian. just a month ago the Iranian government built a monument for ferdowsi in a busy intersection and they named it " Maidan e Ferdowsi" in Mazar city and a few blocks eastward they built a big library and they named it "Ketab khaneh Ferdowsi". Iran has also donated thousands of books for Persian cities across Afghanistan. for Iran right now Persian is much more important than Shia and anyone who propagates that Iran's policy towards Tajiks is a negative one then they might still think Rafsanjaani Hazara-turkmen is in power.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 15, 2009, 03:14:49 AM
Salam bro and welcome to the forums

I'm finding it confusing to know where you stand - are you all for a divided Afghanistan? You have stated what is already well know and documented, but have not given your personal opinion about these conflicting ideas.

I'd like to add that not everyone in here wants a divided Afghanistan - I certainly do not! History is history, ALL nation-states are artificial but we should accept and work on what we already have if we want our kin to prosper. In my honest opinion, Khorasani movements as well as Loy Afghanistan movements are a waste of time and only hinder development in lifestyle, healthcare and education amongst Afghans.
 I appreciate your post btw :)





yes most countries are artificial meaning they are not divine and they can be destroyed and other countries and nation-states will be created out of the former state. Afghanistan will never succeed.




Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Khurasanzad on May 16, 2009, 03:06:48 AM
Good Job admin deleting my post. Possibly I insulted his dirty filthy watanfrosh and immigrant gypsie nation and himself but at the same time I also showed these *** thousands of facts and very good based answers to every phrase he had written with his tail you have deleted with. I spent 2.5 hours to write it and what are you doing? You idiot have not any respect to the real voice of your own nation, of your own brother. You are a sell-out slave of these tailed beghairat Jews (Pashtuns). Tomorrow, you will also sell your mother to the British and to the Russians and to the Arabs but be sure, neither me nor my children will rescue you or anyone of your relatives from Washigari (Pashtunwali). You are just another fascists (manipulated by Pashtunists who use you as their puppet) who want to kill the truth. Death to every Pashtun and every Pashtun fascist, death to every B*** Oughoo gypsie who immigrated to our lands and our cities and our country. Death to every single barbarian Arab slave. At least you could let the desciption and well facts why Pashtuns are not Muslims and why they need to get wiped out in an islamic country, these bl** b**who have not the knowledge of Islam and have no resprect to Quran...but since you are self fallen in love with talibanism and wahabism you will try everything. But ok, your the Boss


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 16, 2009, 04:37:26 AM
Good Job admin deleting my post. Possibly I insulted his dirty filthy watanfrosh and immigrant gypsie nation and himself but at the same time I also showed these *** thousands of facts and very good based answers to every phrase he had written with his tail you have deleted with. I spent 2.5 hours to write it and what are you doing? You idiot have not any respect to the real voice of your own nation, of your own brother. You are a sell-out slave of these tailed beghairat Jews (Pashtuns). Tomorrow, you will also sell your mother to the British and to the Russians and to the Arabs but be sure, neither me nor my children will rescue you or anyone of your relatives from Washigari (Pashtunwali). You are just another fascists (manipulated by Pashtunists who use you as their puppet) who want to kill the truth. Death to every Pashtun and every Pashtun fascist, death to every B*** Oughoo gypsie who immigrated to our lands and our cities and our country. Death to every single barbarian Arab slave. At least you could let the desciption and well facts why Pashtuns are not Muslims and why they need to get wiped out in an islamic country, these bl** b**who have not the knowledge of Islam and have no resprect to Quran...but since you are self fallen in love with talibanism and wahabism you will try everything. But ok, your the Boss


The only reason I removed your post was because you were disrespecting others. This is not youtube or paltalk to curse Pashtuns or Afghans. If you have any problems with any of the members then message them and stop giving this forum a bad name. Tajikam will not tolerate this even if you are a Tajik. You are welcome to stay here like always but I have warned you a thousand times to stop using vulgar and offense language against other members and ethnic groups which is hurting us rather than your opponents. so as long as you are here you are welcome to post anything academic and valuable for us excluding vulgar language.




Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Unity on May 16, 2009, 06:12:11 AM
Dear Gul Agha,

Thanks for imposing the strict rules on the members.  We are here to discuse our problems and if we can, to do something about it.  We are not against anyone, Pashtoons or any other  ethnic group is as human as we Tajiks are.



Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: shinno on May 16, 2009, 07:06:17 AM
Dear Admin
Please do not ban anybody as this will harm freedom of speech and everyone should be allowed to speak their mind. If a member is violating forum rules then you can either delete their posts or give them temporary ban like one day or one week. But I don't agree with permenant bans which are very severe.
A reminder to posters to stay on topic is also another good measure.
This forum has great members and excellent posters. It is always a pleasure to come here and learn something new and useful. I hope it stays this way and improves.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Ahhangar on May 16, 2009, 09:20:09 AM
Dear Amir al Ghaznavi,

Tajikam believes in freedom of speech and anyone from any background can participate in this forum.

Afghanistan is a failed concept and there is no way in bringing this dead concept alive again. not always does Unity help a region become stable but disintegration has been proven in numerous regions to bring peace and stability. our people are frustrated with Pashtuns and the ground reality is that non-Pashtuns cannot get along with Pashtuns. This does not mean we hate Pashtuns but it means we cannot co-exist with them peacefully. Partition or disintegration is an alternative we cannot run away from because Afghanistan is running out of other alternatives.

separating the south and the north will bring us closer and who knows maybe in a century we will unite again but unity right now is impossible. not every Pashtun is like you, most Pashtuns would right now label you as a Tajik wannabe for saying these things and we cannot change our attitude and agenda because of a small minority within the Pashtun masses who are speaking out against Pan Pashtunism.

Khorasan is not a fantasy. Afghanistan is already separated into two defacto states (the stable north and the radical south). Pakistan is also heading towards disintegration and Ahmad Rashid was predicted that itmight happen very soon maybe in a few years. Once a Pashtunistan is created out of NWFP the southern regions of Afghanistan that are controlled by the Taliban will join this Pashtunistan and this will cause Khorasan's independence.

most non-Pashtuns are Persian-speakers and they belong to the Persian civilization. What matters it that the majority in Khorasan will be Persians,Tajiks(including Aimaqs) and Hazaras, and differences between these two ethnicities is very little. the Turks, Nuristanis, Pashayis do not have the capabilities to stand against the Tajiks or the Persian-speakers in an independent Khorasan they will have no choise but to accept this country and in return they will be given rights. Uzbeks are unable to unite with Uzbekistan because Jowsjan and Faryab share a border with Turkmenistan not Uzbekistan.

Tajikistanis have not lost anything. Their script is taught in schools and now it is mandatory to study the Persian script from 2nd grade-11th grade. Tajikistanis are proud of their culture and heritage and the center for Persian nationalism right now is Tajikistan.

Iranians are our brothers and we will have close relations with them. There is no reason for them to be against us lol. If Iran was against another Persian state they would have been hostile towards Tajikistan but the truth is that Iran is pouring money in Tajikistan and is helping Tajikistan's economy and social issues.

Iran is a shia state but this does not mean they are against Sunnis. There are more Persian sunnis in Iran than Baluchi Sunnis and the Persian Sunnis in Iran are free and they are happy about the government. Religion is not the only facor that is thought of in Iran's policy making. There are as much Nationalists in Iran's current government as Akhonds and most of the cadres are pro Persian and even the president of Iran and some of his ministers were  former Pan-Iranists. Iraqi-Kurdistan is a sunni region but Iran is helping them become autonomous and independent. A secular republic of Khorasan (Sunnite and Shiite ideologies will be nonexistent in the government) will serve as a bridge for Iran to connect itself with China. anyone that disagrees with me and thinks the current administration in Iran is more sympathetic towards Shias instead of Persians then this only shows they lack info. Mazar e Sharif, a Tajik sunni city, is flourishing because of Iranian investors and millions have been given to Balkh's government to start cultural programs in Balkh and to revive the true identity of Balkh which is Persian. just a month ago the Iranian government built a monument for ferdowsi in a busy intersection and they named it " Maidan e Ferdowsi" in Mazar city and a few blocks eastward they built a big library and they named it "Ketab khaneh Ferdowsi". Iran has also donated thousands of books for Persian cities across Afghanistan. for Iran right now Persian is much more important than Shia and anyone who propagates that Iran's policy towards Tajiks is a negative one then they might still think Rafsanjaani Hazara-turkmen is in power.



Current Iran backed Wahdati Wahshis and Dostum to try to take Balkh - but were prevented by Ustad Atta - and if they are giving some money to him ( whilst giving hundreds of millions to fascist gang around Karzai)  - along side the vast amounts he makes from the border trade - do not mean that suddenly Iran is a friend of Tajiks. They have only slightly let up on their Hazara card after realizing how futile is was to attempt to spread militant Shiaism to its east - but to its west - in Iraq - it has been devastating that land. In Iraqi Kurdistan - they nominally back secularists - but those secular  Kurds are minor when practically the whole government is run by Shia people they backed.

In Herat - working with Afghan Mellatis - Iran is working against Sunni Persians - Karzi is given millions by Iran - until very recently a Hazara Shia was governor - at the behest of IRAN  !   They have been giving land to Hazaras and turning it into a client province of their own.... with western backing. But they will pay for it - as will their running dog Hazara clients and other Akhundophiles - the real people of Herat will massacre them.

The recent killings in Farah were of Tajiks - Sunni Persians - with Afghan interior ministry involvement - part of the same anti SunniPersian movement.

The name of Iran is a sheep skin over a wolf militant rabid Shiasm - representing a continuation of Turkic Safawid power.

Ahhangar


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Ahhangar on May 16, 2009, 09:29:19 AM
CURRENT IRAN =  EMPIRE OF QOM and sworn enemy of TAJIKS. They are trash enemies whom work with and are the active enemies of Tajiks.  The empire of QOM represents a certain kind of Shiaism - dominated by a certain group - an enemy of Tajik Shias as well as other Tajiks.

The fact that they may want to link up to China is no proof of some special affinity to Tajiks - it is what any country would do if they were located where the current Iran is. It is not something significant in terms of a special relationship between Iran and Tajiks.
 
Their is no brotherhood amongst between Iran and Tajiks. Those whom think - there is - are either naive  and end up being disappointed - or have assume they have commonality die a shared Shia faith - but even that is naive - as is shown by the record.

Gul Agha - stop your propaganda that Tajiks in Iran were not discriminated against - an that it was only Afghans/Pashtuns ! lol That is so hollow and untrue - and it reveals your real ideas too much. 


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Dushanbe on May 16, 2009, 11:46:07 AM
One thing which is very clear is that in politics you can find only interests (personal or national, etc). There are no philanthropic countries in this world and it is very clear that “No good returns = no investment.” Those who cooperate with us, they pursue their own interests and we need to understand the price of friendship and having an ally country.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 22, 2009, 03:38:30 PM
Gul Agha, thank you for your esteemed response. I am at work and so I cannot reply to your post in the manner it deserves.

However I would like to agree with my wror Ahangar here, that your notion of a independent secular Khorassan is not practical. On paper it sounds great, but so does the notion of a detribalized Pakhtun state from Kabul to Pekhawer, but we all know thats never going to happen.

Some quick concerns:

1. I dont think the turkman/uzbek population is willing to allow themselves to be subjected to the rule of tajiks. Again, i base this on the fact that all current cooperation is contextualized by an anti pashtunism/anti afghan state. but once this is removed, differences will appear

2. do not confuse iranian support with brotherly love. Look at herat, where iran is undercutting the development of local industry under the guise of "aid". Iran will NEVER accept a pan Iranic/Persian state as an ally or peer, only as a subjagated state.

Although as a non Persian my opinion may not be as valid, I truly believe that while there are legitimate cultural and linguistic links, there is a difference between the WEST iranic and EAST iranic people, going back to history and even genetics, as the eastern iranians/afghans/tajiks are not the same as western iranian with medes/semetic/babylonian influences.



Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 22, 2009, 03:40:41 PM
Good Job admin deleting my post. Possibly I insulted his dirty filthy watanfrosh and immigrant gypsie nation and himself but at the same time I also showed these *** thousands of facts and very good based answers to every phrase he had written with his tail you have deleted with. I spent 2.5 hours to write it and what are you doing? You idiot have not any respect to the real voice of your own nation, of your own brother. You are a sell-out slave of these tailed beghairat Jews (Pashtuns). Tomorrow, you will also sell your mother to the British and to the Russians and to the Arabs but be sure, neither me nor my children will rescue you or anyone of your relatives from Washigari (Pashtunwali). You are just another fascists (manipulated by Pashtunists who use you as their puppet) who want to kill the truth. Death to every Pashtun and every Pashtun fascist, death to every B*** Oughoo gypsie who immigrated to our lands and our cities and our country. Death to every single barbarian Arab slave. At least you could let the desciption and well facts why Pashtuns are not Muslims and why they need to get wiped out in an islamic country, these bl** b**who have not the knowledge of Islam and have no resprect to Quran...but since you are self fallen in love with talibanism and wahabism you will try everything. But ok, your the Boss

people like you are pathetic and only because you are crying over the 3 hours of your life you lost, but because you are engaged in negativity and know nothing but insults. no pragmatism, no politics no nothing. with your attitude nothing will be accomplished.

and you are a coward because anybody can insult people witin the anonymity of the internet. i am from toronto, ontario canada and if you or any of your like minded colleagues would like to repeat your insults in person youre more than willing to do so

in fact i have many friends from around the world. if you have any decency you will tell me where you live and i can arrange for a meeting


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 22, 2009, 04:04:46 PM
Dear Amir al Ghaznavi,

Tajikam believes in freedom of speech and anyone from any background can participate in this forum.

Afghanistan is a failed concept and there is no way in bringing this dead concept alive again. not always does Unity help a region become stable but disintegration has been proven in numerous regions to bring peace and stability. our people are frustrated with Pashtuns and the ground reality is that non-Pashtuns cannot get along with Pashtuns. This does not mean we hate Pashtuns but it means we cannot co-exist with them peacefully. Partition or disintegration is an alternative we cannot run away from because Afghanistan is running out of other alternatives.

separating the south and the north will bring us closer and who knows maybe in a century we will unite again but unity right now is impossible. not every Pashtun is like you, most Pashtuns would right now label you as a Tajik wannabe for saying these things and we cannot change our attitude and agenda because of a small minority within the Pashtun masses who are speaking out against Pan Pashtunism.

Khorasan is not a fantasy. Afghanistan is already separated into two defacto states (the stable north and the radical south). Pakistan is also heading towards disintegration and Ahmad Rashid was predicted that itmight happen very soon maybe in a few years. Once a Pashtunistan is created out of NWFP the southern regions of Afghanistan that are controlled by the Taliban will join this Pashtunistan and this will cause Khorasan's independence.

most non-Pashtuns are Persian-speakers and they belong to the Persian civilization. What matters it that the majority in Khorasan will be Persians,Tajiks(including Aimaqs) and Hazaras, and differences between these two ethnicities is very little. the Turks, Nuristanis, Pashayis do not have the capabilities to stand against the Tajiks or the Persian-speakers in an independent Khorasan they will have no choise but to accept this country and in return they will be given rights. Uzbeks are unable to unite with Uzbekistan because Jowsjan and Faryab share a border with Turkmenistan not Uzbekistan.

Tajikistanis have not lost anything. Their script is taught in schools and now it is mandatory to study the Persian script from 2nd grade-11th grade. Tajikistanis are proud of their culture and heritage and the center for Persian nationalism right now is Tajikistan.

Iranians are our brothers and we will have close relations with them. There is no reason for them to be against us lol. If Iran was against another Persian state they would have been hostile towards Tajikistan but the truth is that Iran is pouring money in Tajikistan and is helping Tajikistan's economy and social issues.

Iran is a shia state but this does not mean they are against Sunnis. There are more Persian sunnis in Iran than Baluchi Sunnis and the Persian Sunnis in Iran are free and they are happy about the government. Religion is not the only facor that is thought of in Iran's policy making. There are as much Nationalists in Iran's current government as Akhonds and most of the cadres are pro Persian and even the president of Iran and some of his ministers were  former Pan-Iranists. Iraqi-Kurdistan is a sunni region but Iran is helping them become autonomous and independent. A secular republic of Khorasan (Sunnite and Shiite ideologies will be nonexistent in the government) will serve as a bridge for Iran to connect itself with China. anyone that disagrees with me and thinks the current administration in Iran is more sympathetic towards Shias instead of Persians then this only shows they lack info. Mazar e Sharif, a Tajik sunni city, is flourishing because of Iranian investors and millions have been given to Balkh's government to start cultural programs in Balkh and to revive the true identity of Balkh which is Persian. just a month ago the Iranian government built a monument for ferdowsi in a busy intersection and they named it " Maidan e Ferdowsi" in Mazar city and a few blocks eastward they built a big library and they named it "Ketab khaneh Ferdowsi". Iran has also donated thousands of books for Persian cities across Afghanistan. for Iran right now Persian is much more important than Shia and anyone who propagates that Iran's policy towards Tajiks is a negative one then they might still think Rafsanjaani Hazara-turkmen is in power.



Current Iran backed Wahdati Wahshis and Dostum to try to take Balkh - but were prevented by Ustad Atta - and if they are giving some money to him ( whilst giving hundreds of millions to fascist gang around Karzai)  - along side the vast amounts he makes from the border trade - do not mean that suddenly Iran is a friend of Tajiks. They have only slightly let up on their Hazara card after realizing how futile is was to attempt to spread militant Shiaism to its east - but to its west - in Iraq - it has been devastating that land. In Iraqi Kurdistan - they nominally back secularists - but those secular  Kurds are minor when practically the whole government is run by Shia people they backed.

In Herat - working with Afghan Mellatis - Iran is working against Sunni Persians - Karzi is given millions by Iran - until very recently a Hazara Shia was governor - at the behest of IRAN  !   They have been giving land to Hazaras and turning it into a client province of their own.... with western backing. But they will pay for it - as will their running dog Hazara clients and other Akhundophiles - the real people of Herat will massacre them.

The recent killings in Farah were of Tajiks - Sunni Persians - with Afghan interior ministry involvement - part of the same anti SunniPersian movement.

The name of Iran is a sheep skin over a wolf militant rabid Shiasm - representing a continuation of Turkic Safawid power.

Ahhangar

Hezb Wahdat and Junbesh are cripled movements and they lack support from the neighboring countries today. One of the main reasons why Dostum fled Kabul was because he was broke and Karzai promised him that if he leaves Afghanistan he will support him financially. Hezb Wahdat is also like this and they are being used by the Pashtuns today. Iran has given up its ambitions to build up the Hazaras in Afghanistan because this has failed and even though I oppose them they are wise enough to realize this.

Iraq is predominantly Shia and Iran fears another Sunni regime in Iraq just how it fears another Talib regime in Afghanistan.

Ustad Atta's only allies in the region is Iran and weak Tajikistan. Iran has never supported Dostum against Atta because Dostum serves Uzbekistan's interests in the region and today Iran is pouring millions in Balkh even though Atta is removing Uzbeks and Hazaras from the province.

the main opponents of Afghan Mellatis in Herat are the Shia Tajiks of Herat. a few months ago they even torched Afghan Mellat's office. Most of the people be it sunni or shia have co-existed peacefully in Herat for centuries and they still do and all of these sunni vs shia propaganda are false and are only being spread by Afghan Mellatis. The previous governor of Herat was not a Hazara, I have told you this once before also. Hussain Anwari is a Tajik from Ghazni who fought against Hazaras and he was always allied with Jamiat and Shuray Nezar. He is still a close friend of Ismail Khan.

I can't mention any names but a lot of the Sunni Tajik candidates right now are being financed by Iran and their groups and parties also have good relations with the Iranian government. If Iran was against every single Sunni then there would have been no Sunnis in Iran today and these Sunni Tajik groups would be against the so called turkic shia anti sunni regime of Iran.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 22, 2009, 04:12:25 PM
CURRENT IRAN =  EMPIRE OF QOM and sworn enemy of TAJIKS. They are trash enemies whom work with and are the active enemies of Tajiks.  The empire of QOM represents a certain kind of Shiaism - dominated by a certain group - an enemy of Tajik Shias as well as other Tajiks.

The fact that they may want to link up to China is no proof of some special affinity to Tajiks - it is what any country would do if they were located where the current Iran is. It is not something significant in terms of a special relationship between Iran and Tajiks.
 
Their is no brotherhood amongst between Iran and Tajiks. Those whom think - there is - are either naive  and end up being disappointed - or have assume they have commonality die a shared Shia faith - but even that is naive - as is shown by the record.

Gul Agha - stop your propaganda that Tajiks in Iran were not discriminated against - an that it was only Afghans/Pashtuns ! lol That is so hollow and untrue - and it reveals your real ideas too much. 

we cannot have everyone against us. How can we succeed if we have everyone against us: The Hazaras, Pashtuns, the Turks and then every single neighboring country except Tajikistan. Even though Iran is controlled by Akhonds and a theocratic government exists there, nationalist elements do exist in the government. Not everyone in the Iranian system are pro theocracy but there are millions of reformists in Iran who are trying to change the regime and the only powerful ally that we Tajiks have right now is Iran and if we turn against them then we have no one else besides us.

If Iran's only ambition in the region was to help the Shias then why is Iran helping Tajikistan? Is there any Ithna Ashari Shias in Tajikistan?




Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 22, 2009, 04:22:01 PM
Gul Agha, thank you for your esteemed response. I am at work and so I cannot reply to your post in the manner it deserves.

However I would like to agree with my wror Ahangar here, that your notion of a independent secular Khorassan is not practical. On paper it sounds great, but so does the notion of a detribalized Pakhtun state from Kabul to Pekhawer, but we all know thats never going to happen.

Some quick concerns:

1. I dont think the turkman/uzbek population is willing to allow themselves to be subjected to the rule of tajiks. Again, i base this on the fact that all current cooperation is contextualized by an anti pashtunism/anti afghan state. but once this is removed, differences will appear

2. do not confuse iranian support with brotherly love. Look at herat, where iran is undercutting the development of local industry under the guise of "aid". Iran will NEVER accept a pan Iranic/Persian state as an ally or peer, only as a subjagated state.

Although as a non Persian my opinion may not be as valid, I truly believe that while there are legitimate cultural and linguistic links, there is a difference between the WEST iranic and EAST iranic people, going back to history and even genetics, as the eastern iranians/afghans/tajiks are not the same as western iranian with medes/semetic/babylonian influences.



You might think an independent Khorasan is not practical but it is more practical than a united, successful Afghanistan. Countries like Afghanistan will never succeed we have seen this throughout history. Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It. Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia were also like Afghanistan. at the end both states realized that the only logical solution is to disintegrate the country and today most of their problems have been solved in the Balkan region and Eastern Europe.

1. Turkmens and Uzbeks are verk weak like all other small minorities in Afghanistan and they will have a hard time to oppose an independent Khorasan because they have no other choice.

2. Iran is currently transitioning to a more liberal type of government. most of the reformists in Iran are nationalists and they rather help their Iranic brothers in Khorasan and Tajikistan than some arab parties in Israel.

There are more differences between Tajiks and Pashtuns and claiming that we have differences with Iranians is not true. we share a common history culture and language with most Iranians and there is no reason for them to destroy us lol when it isn't for their best interests.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 22, 2009, 04:33:29 PM
i do not believe it is accurate to point at iranian tajik cooperation and then suggest that this is proof of irans good intentions. this is simple politics.

do you really believe such mutual cooperation will continue when tajiks are no longer a minority within a country to be supported to maintain a foot hold and they become a separate country?

i guess we agree to disagree then wror


ps: you do know that genetically pashtuns and tajiks are more related than tajiks and iranians (west iranians) right? :p


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 22, 2009, 07:07:02 PM
i do not believe it is accurate to point at iranian tajik cooperation and then suggest that this is proof of irans good intentions. this is simple politics.

do you really believe such mutual cooperation will continue when tajiks are no longer a minority within a country to be supported to maintain a foot hold and they become a separate country?

i guess we agree to disagree then wror


ps: you do know that genetically pashtuns and tajiks are more related than tajiks and iranians (west iranians) right? :p

Iran's would benifit greatly from a stable eastern persian neighbor and there is no reason for them to oppose such a nation-state.

not every Pashtun is an Indo-Iranian. only Durranis are related to Tajiks but Tajiks are still much more closer to western Persians than Durranis.


Title: salamona to ghaznavi wror
Post by: ProudAfghan on May 24, 2009, 07:24:22 AM
first of all i would like to introduce myself, i am an afghan, whom i am sure you all know what afghan means, it simply means pashtun, yes even now adays in afghanistan, the word "afghani" is used for pashtu i.e. if some one asking you that can you speak afghani, then you should get it that he/she means pashtu language... anyhow i thinks my introduction is enough

l olzafter goin through this topic's coment, i find it really funny ghaznavi wror that you are wasting your qematee wakht with these people, they have already made up their mind hating pashtun, killing pashtun etc...and i know no body can change their mind of way or how they think.. Only Allah subhanawatalah can help them, so what me and you should do is pray for these people that may Allah subhana watalah guide them the right path... amin suma amin

these people are lucky in one sense that we pashtuns practices islam more and are muslims unlike some people who claims to be muslim but dn't practice islam, i mean personally me i can't hate no other muslim brother because in islam there is no hatred...

anyhow ghaznavi brother if you really want to do something, then do something for your people i.e. making every single pashtun awake on how much we are being hated, what are the so call brother of us tajiks are saying behind our backs

i wish all the best to this group members specially to them pashtun haters, i will be more then happy if you carry on hating pashtun because this can help us pashtuns to wake up and stand on our language and realise the backstabbers.

so brother please if i were you, i wouldn't waste my time here debating aything related even 1% to afghanistan because its just useless and a waste of ur kematee time...

Allah mo mal sha



Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: ProudAfghan on May 24, 2009, 07:32:01 AM
and i would like to wish them people who are dreaming of taking over pashtuns or kiling pashtuns, lols i would just like to say one sentence that

"72 countries admits defeat in the hands of few hundred pashtun talibans",

the percentage of pashtuns fighting alongside taliban is not even 5% of the overall pashtuns, i would wish for a fight between pashtuns n tajiks/iranians/uzbaks etc again to see who will win...

again if the 5% pashtun of the 100% can defeat the 72 develped countries then what is this iran, these other tajiks for us?
wish you all the best and pray that pashtuns dont get fed up with your attitudes otherwise you knw where your place will be

deer manana

i have said it again, please make our pashtun brothers life easy by doing whatever you are doing

thanks alot


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Lindt on May 24, 2009, 07:52:22 AM
first of all i would like to introduce myself, i am an afghan, whom i am sure you all know what afghan means, it simply means pashtun, yes even now adays in afghanistan, the word "afghani" is used for pashtu i.e. if some one asking you that can you speak afghani, then you should get it that he/she means pashtu language... anyhow i thinks my introduction is enough

l olzafter goin through this topic's coment, i find it really funny ghaznavi wror that you are wasting your qematee wakht with these people, they have already made up their mind hating pashtun, killing pashtun etc...and i know no body can change their mind of way or how they think.. Only Allah subhanawatalah can help them, so what me and you should do is pray for these people that may Allah subhana watalah guide them the right path... amin suma amin

these people are lucky in one sense that we pashtuns practices islam more and are muslims unlike some people who claims to be muslim but dn't practice islam, i mean personally me i can't hate no other muslim brother because in islam there is no hatred...

anyhow ghaznavi brother if you really want to do something, then do something for your people i.e. making every single pashtun awake on how much we are being hated, what are the so call brother of us tajiks are saying behind our backs

i wish all the best to this group members specially to them pashtun haters, i will be more then happy if you carry on hating pashtun because this can help us pashtuns to wake up and stand on our language and realise the backstabbers.

so brother please if i were you, i wouldn't waste my time here debating aything related even 1% to afghanistan because its just useless and a waste of ur kematee time...

Allah mo mal sha



Welcome ProudAfghan

If you have yet to realise, an Afghan also means a citizen of Afghanistan,  therefore technically non-Pashtuns in Afghanistan are Afghans, whether they wish to call themselves that or not or whether Pashtuns want to accept reality or not.

I want to say that I was rather offended by your whole "we're better Muslims" comment - I'd be glad to see some statistics. It's amazing how one easily thinks that just because they perceive themselves as being better practitioners of Islam, that they are immediately more superior. let God be the judge...

Allow me to also add that hate is what has created superficial divisions and the day that people realise themselves as being human beings rather than entities to particular racial or ethnic groups is where the world will be a better place. and seeing as you are a pious Muslim, nationalism and pride is wrong and against the ideologies of Islam. (let this be something to all who think their ethnic group - something you have no control over - is better than anothers)  >:(

You say that there is a lot of hate - yes, i agree - 100%. But i can say that same about Pashtun forums who preach hate and come across as having superiority complexes for reasons beyond my understanding. many Afghans do not have a good understanding of their own history and merely listen to what their uneducated forefathers passed on to following generations.

and lol... you think pashto is under attack? it may be the national language of afghanistan but it certainly never was and is not the lingua franca. people on this site are more concerned about developing their language and culture rather than destroying another (or so they should be) ...relax, no one is trying to destroy it. you are right, pashtuns defended afghanistan hence why they claim it... but you shouldn't have a big head because of it. :)


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Lindt on May 24, 2009, 07:56:50 AM
good point.
I noticed that too in Afghanistan - there was nothing but love between its people. sadly, in the west, facsists have been lurking around the internet in particularly, posting vicious lies that create more hatred and division between all people in afghanistan as well as it's diasporic population.


hahaha at Punjabis. I think that title is reserved for Indian-loving Kabulis


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: ProudAfghan on May 24, 2009, 08:31:46 AM
thank u landit, i wasn't expecting any one to welcome me and i dn't want to come in to you people own stuff like planing ;) ahaha

anyhow

yh i knew no would read the whole text i wrote because it was obviously long, yeah i know i wrote that and i did apologised in the last comment...

by saying that pashtun's faith are stronger then tajkis is true, i know tobah na ghozo belah i m not the creater, in kabul the mosques where the area is of tajik majority then the mosque wil be empty but if you go to pashtun areas then the mosque will be full, i have noticed this...

and plus i have seen some of you insulting at arabs, don't forget that all them prophets were arabs and the holly book Quran is also written in arabic,

anyhow i know i didnt feel right saying that pashtuns faith in islam was stronger then tajiks but wrote it, those taibans that fights now are brainwashed in to one thing that the non muslim countries have invaded their country, and to spread christianity etc, thats why those talibans are fighting and often does suicide targeting foreigners


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: ProudAfghan on May 24, 2009, 08:35:59 AM
oh my days one must watch the afghan private tv's, its full of them hindu dramas... very very not afghan or persian because in the dramas they have this thick circle red thing on their forehead and the sari's they wear astagfirulah

i have seen many of our afghans copying their dressin, in west afghans women are used to now wearing sari's

long live khurram, he was the guy who could ban it but the parliament didn't allow him i think


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: PORS on May 24, 2009, 10:25:57 AM
ProudAfghan,

First, welcome to the forum! We hope your stay will be interesting as well as meaningful.

Second, to assume that nobody reads your post, be it long or short, just because your are Pashtu or non-Tajik, is inaccurate. We read every single post, but we also tend to ignore posts that are full of hatred and has vulgar language - no matter by whom (Tajik or non-Tajik). So, next time keep in mind that we all read honest posts with the usage of proper language in it.

Third, forum is for discussions and debates and to say that we, Tajik, have already made our mind, is a bid odd. We are open to all respectful debates about anything, particularly with references to and usage of scholastic sources. If you are capable of presenting your thoughts and ideas in a provable way, then why not to change the mind. After all, everything changes in the universe except the law of change itself.

Fourth, I agree with Lindt that every forum (especially multi-ethnic) has some elements of hatred. So, to say that Tajikam.com is full of hatred is incorrect. What do you think about those "other" forums then? Do you think that's fair? We should concentrate on respecting each other and leave bashings and hatred when expressing our thoughts and views. Then we, as a humanity, can achieve something.

Last but not least. You refer to Islam and being a good Muslim as the core of an individual. I respectfully disagree with you on that. A person can get good morals from education including some of the good precepts from religion, and does not have any religion or believes in supernatural being. After all, the meaning of this life is to be a good person, and one can, there are a lot, become a good human being without any belief in God. Are you going to degrade and discriminate all these people? What's wrong if one doesn't believes in what you believe. Absolutely nothing. Everybody has different views and beliefs, and to assert that your's is the true is odd. You have to understand that (especially if you have been outside Afghanistan) people can live in harmony believing in God and not believing in God as well, and you have to respect everybody's opinion no matter to what extent it's different from yours.

Regards,



- Pors.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Gul agha on May 24, 2009, 02:12:17 PM
and i would like to wish them people who are dreaming of taking over pashtuns or kiling pashtuns, lols i would just like to say one sentence that

"72 countries admits defeat in the hands of few hundred pashtun talibans",

the percentage of pashtuns fighting alongside taliban is not even 5% of the overall pashtuns, i would wish for a fight between pashtuns n tajiks/iranians/uzbaks etc again to see who will win...

again if the 5% pashtun of the 100% can defeat the 72 develped countries then what is this iran, these other tajiks for us?
wish you all the best and pray that pashtuns dont get fed up with your attitudes otherwise you knw where your place will be

deer manana

i have said it again, please make our pashtun brothers life easy by doing whatever you are doing

thanks alot

Pashtuns were unable to take a small Tajik village, Panjshir, how will you manage to defeat all of us. Don't forget what happened to you in November 2001.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Lindt on May 24, 2009, 07:50:38 PM
thank u landit, i wasn't expecting any one to welcome me and i dn't want to come in to you people own stuff like planing ;) ahaha

anyhow

yh i knew no would read the whole text i wrote because it was obviously long, yeah i know i wrote that and i did apologised in the last comment...

by saying that pashtun's faith are stronger then tajkis is true, i know tobah na ghozo belah i m not the creater, in kabul the mosques where the area is of tajik majority then the mosque wil be empty but if you go to pashtun areas then the mosque will be full, i have noticed this...

and plus i have seen some of you insulting at arabs, don't forget that all them prophets were arabs and the holly book Quran is also written in arabic,

anyhow i know i didnt feel right saying that pashtuns faith in islam was stronger then tajiks but wrote it, those taibans that fights now are brainwashed in to one thing that the non muslim countries have invaded their country, and to spread christianity etc, thats why those talibans are fighting and often does suicide targeting foreigners


the basis of your comments about Pashtuns having stronger faith cannot be rooted in what you saw in one Mosque. i could easily use example of how tajiks are very strong in their faith and how Pashtuns may follow it ideologically, but not ritualistically. as Pors said, being a Muslim does not make you a better person and to say that it does is again deeply offending!

furthermore, anyone can spread religion to whomever they want but no one is obliged to follow it. if you did not yet know that when the Arabs brought Islam to Afghanistan, we were very stubborn and fought against the spread of it for a longggg time, there wasn't some overnight miracle where we all became "believers.''

the only Arabs that are worth being insulted are these brain-washed bedouins in the gulf for the hypocrisy and  unlawful acts they commit against afghans. 
also ,the only Arab prophet - both ethnically and lingusitically - was Muhammed. just because Palestinians now speak Arabic, doesn't mean Jesus was an Arab... lol.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Kohistani on May 25, 2009, 05:55:42 AM
Your comment about understanding our grievances stood out.  The fact that you claim to understand that our Khorasani movement is driven by a set of grievances is a big concession on your part. What a shame you are in the less than 1% minority of Pashtuns. I too was a proud Afghan three or so years back but my encounters over the internet with Pashtuns changed all that and made it impossible for me to reconcile my ethnicity and my (forced) nationality. Our Khorasani movement is not driven by a sense of hatred but by anger and grievances.

The Pashtunist movement is over 60-70 years old and highly institutionalized, so much so that it can easily be defined within the parameters of 4 core principles, they are:

1. Afghanistan is a Pashtun nation; created for first and foremost the Pashtun people.
2. De-recognition of Durrand Line and Amalgamation of Pashtunistan and Baluchistan into Afghanistan and thus formation of an absolute Pashtun majority state (Loy Afghanistan).
3. Enforcement of Pashto as the sole official and national language of Afghanistan.
4. Pashtunization* of Western, Central and Northern Afghanistan and the non-Pashtun peoples.

*Pashtunization can be translated as the forced settlements of Pashtuns into non-Pashtun areas and the erosion of the customs, traditions and language of the non-Pashtuns.

You will stuggle to find ONE PASHTUN who doesn't suscribe to atleast ONE of these principles.

The Khorassani movement is young, immature and a reactive movement. It relies and feeds off Pashtunism and Pashtunists like Daud Khan of yesterday and Karim Khurram of today. It is highly naive of you to define it as you have. It may be possible to define it in a few more decades and it would be interesting to see the shape it will take, however as of today it merely stands for one or two core principles, which are:

1.Pashtuns have, are and will continue with their Pashtunization Policy.
2.We must fight Pashtunization at any cost for the sake of our language, watan, culture and future generations.

Issues concerning the alteration of the countries name, secession, or working within the framework of Afghanistan etc are all points of division and will need time to iron out.

I for one still hold some hope (though it is diminishing with the passing of each day) that a solution can be found within the framework of Afghanistan, and that we can truly have a nation for all, a true nation of compromise. However I fully support people who are more ‘revolutionary’ than me because a time may come where we will need to go down the path of secession. I fully support the Khorassani cultural illumination movement because it will be the perfect weapon against the Pashtunist Loy Afghanistan Movement. The day that that Loy-Afghanistan is about to become a reality will be the day that Khorasan will be born.

Today in the north and west, Hazaras, Uzbeks and Tajiks are living side by side peacefully. If partition was to happen today, perhaps there would be minor ethnic scuffles due to a power vacuum but there has and always will be a natural order in this land. Turks have ruled for 600 hundred years, Mongol for 200 years but they never forced their language or culture on the native peoples. They have never interfered with the Parsi-Khorasani-Ariayee foundation of this land like the Pashtuns did; they have instead integrated into our culture freely. This will happen yet again in a future Khorasan. Of course we need education and time to iron out the tribal mentality of the last 30 years and this process has already begun. The Khorasani movement may briefly one day be fought and finished with the gun, but it was born and will be won by the power of the pen and education.





Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: AbuMuslim on May 25, 2009, 04:39:25 PM
Prophet Mohamad was sent for the humanity not for the Arabs.
Tajiks are more religious and have deep roots in Islam than pashtuns who prioritize pashtunwali to the codes of Holy Quran.
Khurasanis (Tajiks i.e Persians), Turks and Arabs have been regarded as the three pillars of the Islamic civilization in every aspect, where pashtuns doesn't even count as a brick of it.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: arya-zadah on May 25, 2009, 09:26:12 PM
actually it is good news, good to know that tajiks are less religious. being religious means being conservative, inflexible, limited; having less level of intelligence, self-esteem, independence, self-motivation; suspicious to other faiths, races and cultures.

persian version of islam always was more liberal, open and sophisticated than original arabic one. advanced societies are always complex and sophisticated with great level of flexibility. persian people couldn't adopt this arabic religion in its original primitive form. they have changed it and they made it suitable for people who live in civilized cities and farms, not in camps in deserts.

Pashtuns with their specific disposition toward radical forms of islam can eventually become big losers of this battle between them and more civilized neighbors, Persians to the north and Indo-Ayans to the South.

However, i wouldn't accuse pashtun people for all their awkwardnesses. It's geography first of all - they live in remote mountain places. it's lack of centers of pashtun civilizations, big cities with liberal and relatively free atmosphere for people to create symbols of pashtun culture like sophisticated literature, art and music.

if i would be a pashtun, i would grieve that my people are not able to create and develop their own aryan pashtun culture and they are  followers of other people's culture, arabic one.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: ProudAfghan on May 25, 2009, 11:21:07 PM
i would also quit this forum soon because i dn't want you people to waste ur qematee time with me but i would want you to rather work hard more on stuff related to khorasan or taking over all pashtun areas or killing all pastuns

thank you


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Khurasani on May 26, 2009, 06:10:08 AM
ProudAfghan; you escape ;) ? I don't think an Afghan give in such this fast  :'(

Our doors are open for anyone. Convincing others and make aware of them is our job and responsiblity. Everyone know who are Tajiks/Persian and one day our Afghans/Pashtuns will also realize this.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: farid1 on May 26, 2009, 06:48:29 AM
i would also quit this forum soon because i dn't want you people to waste ur qematee time with me but i would want you to rather work hard more on stuff related to khorasan or taking over all pashtun areas or killing all pastuns

thank you

i didnt your Read whole of your paragraph but do you who Ahmad shah Durrine was how brought into power he was a servant and solder in the Persian army when he was a general he stabbed his on master on the back, he learned all the art of war and government from the Persians.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: PORS on May 26, 2009, 10:30:33 AM
ProudAfghan,

You are free to leave any time you want. Everybody in this forum is free.

No single respected member of this forum have said that they want to kill Pashtuns. That's clearly a lie you are making it up. If you put your emotional and biased eyeglasses aside, you will see that each member of this forum posts opinion with no hatred, but clear mind and respect to all other people no matter of their religious differences or ethnic differences.

Regards,



- Pors.

i would also quit this forum soon because i dn't want you people to waste ur qematee time with me but i would want you to rather work hard more on stuff related to khorasan or taking over all pashtun areas or killing all pastuns

thank you


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 27, 2009, 04:41:20 PM
i would also quit this forum soon because i dn't want you people to waste ur qematee time with me but i would want you to rather work hard more on stuff related to khorasan or taking over all pashtun areas or killing all pastuns

thank you

i didnt your Read whole of your paragraph but do you who Ahmad shah Durrine was how brought into power he was a servant and solder in the Persian army when he was a general he stabbed his on master on the back, he learned all the art of war and government from the Persians.

brush up on your history bachem, ahmad shah was loyal to his Shah. it was the others in this court who assassinated and conspired. Ahmad shah simply made the best use of the situation after nader was killed


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 27, 2009, 05:14:32 PM
and i would like to wish them people who are dreaming of taking over pashtuns or kiling pashtuns, lols i would just like to say one sentence that

"72 countries admits defeat in the hands of few hundred pashtun talibans",

the percentage of pashtuns fighting alongside taliban is not even 5% of the overall pashtuns, i would wish for a fight between pashtuns n tajiks/iranians/uzbaks etc again to see who will win...

again if the 5% pashtun of the 100% can defeat the 72 develped countries then what is this iran, these other tajiks for us?
wish you all the best and pray that pashtuns dont get fed up with your attitudes otherwise you knw where your place will be

deer manana

i have said it again, please make our pashtun brothers life easy by doing whatever you are doing

thanks alot

Pashtuns were unable to take a small Tajik village, Panjshir, how will you manage to defeat all of us. Don't forget what happened to you in November 2001.

are you seriously going to point to the involvement of americans as some thing to be proud of? this is your ghairat? that your community sold itself for a couple million dollars to wreak havoc on the other half? this is a source of pride for you? the actions of americans? lol



Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on May 27, 2009, 05:16:33 PM
Your comment about understanding our grievances stood out.  The fact that you claim to understand that our Khorasani movement is driven by a set of grievances is a big concession on your part. What a shame you are in the less than 1% minority of Pashtuns. I too was a proud Afghan three or so years back but my encounters over the internet with Pashtuns changed all that and made it impossible for me to reconcile my ethnicity and my (forced) nationality. Our Khorasani movement is not driven by a sense of hatred but by anger and grievances.

The Pashtunist movement is over 60-70 years old and highly institutionalized, so much so that it can easily be defined within the parameters of 4 core principles, they are:

1. Afghanistan is a Pashtun nation; created for first and foremost the Pashtun people.
2. De-recognition of Durrand Line and Amalgamation of Pashtunistan and Baluchistan into Afghanistan and thus formation of an absolute Pashtun majority state (Loy Afghanistan).
3. Enforcement of Pashto as the sole official and national language of Afghanistan.
4. Pashtunization* of Western, Central and Northern Afghanistan and the non-Pashtun peoples.

*Pashtunization can be translated as the forced settlements of Pashtuns into non-Pashtun areas and the erosion of the customs, traditions and language of the non-Pashtuns.

You will stuggle to find ONE PASHTUN who doesn't suscribe to atleast ONE of these principles.

The Khorassani movement is young, immature and a reactive movement. It relies and feeds off Pashtunism and Pashtunists like Daud Khan of yesterday and Karim Khurram of today. It is highly naive of you to define it as you have. It may be possible to define it in a few more decades and it would be interesting to see the shape it will take, however as of today it merely stands for one or two core principles, which are:

1.Pashtuns have, are and will continue with their Pashtunization Policy.
2.We must fight Pashtunization at any cost for the sake of our language, watan, culture and future generations.

Issues concerning the alteration of the countries name, secession, or working within the framework of Afghanistan etc are all points of division and will need time to iron out.

I for one still hold some hope (though it is diminishing with the passing of each day) that a solution can be found within the framework of Afghanistan, and that we can truly have a nation for all, a true nation of compromise. However I fully support people who are more ‘revolutionary’ than me because a time may come where we will need to go down the path of secession. I fully support the Khorassani cultural illumination movement because it will be the perfect weapon against the Pashtunist Loy Afghanistan Movement. The day that that Loy-Afghanistan is about to become a reality will be the day that Khorasan will be born.

Today in the north and west, Hazaras, Uzbeks and Tajiks are living side by side peacefully. If partition was to happen today, perhaps there would be minor ethnic scuffles due to a power vacuum but there has and always will be a natural order in this land. Turks have ruled for 600 hundred years, Mongol for 200 years but they never forced their language or culture on the native peoples. They have never interfered with the Parsi-Khorasani-Ariayee foundation of this land like the Pashtuns did; they have instead integrated into our culture freely. This will happen yet again in a future Khorasan. Of course we need education and time to iron out the tribal mentality of the last 30 years and this process has already begun. The Khorasani movement may briefly one day be fought and finished with the gun, but it was born and will be won by the power of the pen and education.

i understand and symapthize with many of your points. i always found it ridicolous that hardcore pashtunists always claimed that pakhtunkhwa lands had to be added to afghanistan as it exists

if we;re going to claim pashtun lands of pakistan, then we automatically forgo claims to mazar/herat/ etc because these were lands that historically belong to iran and bokhara


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Khurasanzad on May 29, 2009, 08:27:42 AM
Good Job admin deleting my post. Possibly I insulted his dirty filthy watanfrosh and immigrant gypsie nation and himself but at the same time I also showed these *** thousands of facts and very good based answers to every phrase he had written with his tail you have deleted with. I spent 2.5 hours to write it and what are you doing? You idiot have not any respect to the real voice of your own nation, of your own brother. You are a sell-out slave of these tailed beghairat Jews (Pashtuns). Tomorrow, you will also sell your mother to the British and to the Russians and to the Arabs but be sure, neither me nor my children will rescue you or anyone of your relatives from Washigari (Pashtunwali). You are just another fascists (manipulated by Pashtunists who use you as their puppet) who want to kill the truth. Death to every Pashtun and every Pashtun fascist, death to every B*** Oughoo gypsie who immigrated to our lands and our cities and our country. Death to every single barbarian Arab slave. At least you could let the desciption and well facts why Pashtuns are not Muslims and why they need to get wiped out in an islamic country, these bl** b**who have not the knowledge of Islam and have no resprect to Quran...but since you are self fallen in love with talibanism and wahabism you will try everything. But ok, your the Boss

people like you are pathetic and only because you are crying over the 3 hours of your life you lost, but because you are engaged in negativity and know nothing but insults. no pragmatism, no politics no nothing. with your attitude nothing will be accomplished.

and you are a coward because anybody can insult people witin the anonymity of the internet. i am from toronto, ontario canada and if you or any of your like minded colleagues would like to repeat your insults in person youre more than willing to do so

in fact i have many friends from around the world. if you have any decency you will tell me where you live and i can arrange for a meeting

Lol...stupid taile4d prostitute...a**sholes like you I kicked many times in their unwashed a**s, Pashtun e Khar. I even spit in your dirty face and in that of your ancestors and your parents, bloody bastard and even if you send your entire cousins and brtothers I will cut them their tails. If I would stand next to you. Pashtun e Mordag***. You Khar have not the pride and the honour to come here and stand in front of me and if you are willing so...than be sure you won´t survive. Bepadar Oughool. Go and rescue your wahabiy mother from Shia Qezelbash Pakistani Zardari, arshole bastard. Stupid Pagh o Dagh o Pig. Your grandmother is at the moment dancing for him. Coward dog. Don´t swear much. As much as you pashtuns have sworn you got bloody noses and cut tailes.

Ps:stupid monkey boy, bring your ''genetical'' references that proves Pashtuns are related with Tajiks. Let see in which sense the descandants of Khalji Mongols and Hephtalithe Huns who raped Indian women and girls are related with Tajiks, mindless idiot, dirty rat. In fact, the term western Iranians include Baluchis, Kurds, Zazas and other tribes in the southwestern Cuacasus and Anatolia (Turkey) and south-western Iran while Persians of Iran populate mainly Central adn Eastern Iran. This is what the so-called ''Babylonians'' have created http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran and that´s what the descandants of Mongol Khaljis and Hephtalithes have created http://japanfocus.org/data/Taliban%27s%20destruction%20of%20Bamiyan.JPG

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1011/csmimg/ODU1011_p1.jpg

Oh yes, Iranian ''semites'' are better than Pashtun semites.

(http://ameritics.com/gallery/911/full/Afghan-missile-launcher.gif)
Pashtun and Arab

(http://trojanbuster.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/taliban-cartoon.jpg)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/120326776_f340379034.jpg) the original face of a Pashtun!!!

@Gul Agha

this FroudAoughan is Zanfroshak Oughani..you should ban this bastard from this forum. In general, this Pashtuns will always propagate against us and our brothers to be succes in their aims against us. They will do everything for their utopic Loy Oughanistan and to establish a hegemony on all Non-Pashtuns by manipulate them. Never trust a Jew. It is even said by Mohammad. If you don´t believe that than open the Qoran and Bible and read what is written there. A Jew is always an enemy of God and humanity. That´s also why they don´t have an equal word for Humanity (Persian: Insaniat).

@Froud Oughan

Pashtuns are not Muslims. What makes them to Muslism? Even in the Bible it is said the Jews (Pashtuns) are agaisnt god and humanity and not only that. Pashtuns do not know Islam. They can´t even pray correctly. They believe only in half of Koran and they ignore the other half and you call Pashtuns Muslims? Pashtuns are not even able to read, to translate or to think like humans how can they understand Islam? Pashtuns follow salafism and wahabism and that only because it´s close from their phiolosphy to that of their barbaric Pashtunwali adn way of life. You Pashtuns are by far not Muslims. You were never famous for beeing muslims and you won´t ever be. Once, the islamic world has realized that a Jihaad within Khurasan will start against the supporters of Satan and Dajjal, inshallah. Death with the Kafrs and those who call themself as Muslisms as result of uneducation and idiotism. Is homosexuality a custom of Islam? You talk aboutz hate. YAou Pashtuns are so pathetic. You always jugde others with stupid claims but the same claims are the same aspects that make out of a Person a fride Pashtun, in that case you FroudOughan. Your place is the hell...and hopefully I will see you and your fellows there. You idiots can be even 99% of Afghanistan population but you will never be able to destroy anything Non-Pashtuni (Nangdari, Ghairati) because you have not the brain for it and you are not able to do it since you are a backward banch of mindless idiots. Your ''culture'' and ''language'' can´t challenge any Non-Pashtuni good. Even the Pashai language, which is spoken by the most minority group of Afghanistan have more right and power than your fart, that´s why in Laghman and Logar many people, even Tajiks and Pashtuns, speak also Pashaii, a Tajik speak Pashaii there than Pashtu. Shame to you and your uneducated whatever nation.

Pashtuns claim a lot of Bullshit. They talk here about ''racism'' and ''hatres'' but everyone knows that these two hard points are one of the main reasons for Pashtun policy and wild nature. I can always laugh about these **** when they use ''racism'', ''kfr'', ''facism''. For a Pashtun, everything and everyone is an anti.Pashtun, be it a worm, a bird, a culture which overhelm Pashtunwali, a schoolboy, school etc. They declare everything and everyone to racists and facists and enemies, even if you defende yourself against their facistic and racistic attacks then they will call you a traitor. Take a knife and put it in their neck with power and don´t let them alive, otherwise they won´t let you or your children alive.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Khurasanzad on May 29, 2009, 10:15:03 AM
Now let make some stuff clear here.

- It were Pashtuns who served under the british mayesty of India and brought them to Khorasan (The british were very smart knowing how using barbarians and wild tribes men against civilized Khurasanians just to establish their rule there)

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who ''defeated'' (killed) 16 000 Indo-British servants, children, babies, women, aged people who were at the deepest winter on the road from Kabul to Jalalabad by feet without any winter corresponding equipments

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who killed 51 children and 35 women of British soldiers in the old fortress of Zhob

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who later tried to overrun Kabul but thanks to the glorious Tajiks who defeated them and their British masters (Part 1)

- It was the froud Oughanwal Ayyub Khan (famous for his sick habbits (sex with children)) who first fled to his Uzbek master to Bukhara but came back and begged like a dog in Herat for Tajik support against the Indo-British masters of Pashtuns in Malakand who also were defeated (Part 2)

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who were not able to defeat the Russian and British influence in the 3rd Anglo-''Afghan'' war, but against the aristocratic caste of Tajiks who supported Amanullah Khan Padarnalat e Haramzada (Part 3)

- It were the glorious Ishkashim and Shughnan Tajiks of Badakhchan who defeated the wild Pashtun army of Amanullah Khan Padarnalat e Haramzada and himself when they tried to settle Pashtuns there

- It were Pashtun Khans who sold their daughters for British agents and officiers, one of them Dost Mohammad who sold his sister to a British officer. For return, they get from them weapons and useless money from the mid of the 19th century

- It were Pashtuns (Amanullah Khan Padarnalat e Haramzada who sold even his sister) was the first of the Pashtun ''leaders'' who sold his family´s Ghairat to bolchewik Russia

- It were Pashtuns who served Ottoman Turks as slaves against Iran

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who destroyed the Bhudda Statues in ''their'' country (all other ethnics are immigrants, except the Pashtuns ::) )

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who brought the Arabs with whom they looted and destroyed the country

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who welcomed Russians in East and South Afghanistan. ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtun women were doing 10 kinds of attan in front of their Tanks. There are good videos (also in Youtube and in MyVideo) about Pashtana ''Ghairatzais'' and ''Nangdarkhels'' how they dance for Russians and hold Soviet flags (that was the reason why many Russians interpretad their acts wrongly and so they became victims of rapes). But again, Non-Pashtuns showed their Ghairat and Nang by rescuing Pashtuns and Pashtanas from Soviets.

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who sold their daughters and lands to Arabs and still do

- It are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who cooperate with terrorists and in turn use terrorism

It are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who were not fallen down under powers like soviets who forbidde religion but felt neverlessness in Kfr while those who were once part of the ''Kfrs'' have not lost an inch of their belief and roots. Shame to the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who cooperate with terrorists and in turn used terrorism in Kabul and elsewhere in the north against civilians, instead taking part in fighting Soviets

- It are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtun communists who are today known as Taliban leaders or Al-Qaida supporter (f.ex. Rocketyar Khar-Oti)

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtun leaders who were known beeing homosexuals or bi-sexuals or pedophiles (Ahmad Khan Abdali Multani, Zaher Shah, Ayyub Khan, ''Bacha Khan''...)

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtun leaders (specially Daud Khan) who ''sold'' lol ''Pashtunistan'' (Pakistan) to Pakistan lol

- It are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who still serves foreigners

- It are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who exchange their family members with animals

- It are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who today push their daughters in front of cars or burn them to death

- It are were ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who brought in the 21th century America and again the Brtisih power (Khar-Zai)

- It were always the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtun/s (leaders) who were engaged in two games (Karzai and his family-->CIA and Pak. Secret Service)

- It were and are always the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who are cooperating with global terrorists and criminals and in return they pay them by poppies and other kinds of drugs

It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who even armed and radicalized their own children against Non-Pashtuns, specially under the Taliban

- It were the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who were able after 200 years Pashtun ruling to build the first industry fabric of Afghanistan (Needle - and light switch factory)  ??? ??? ::)

It were and are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who sell their own children for sex

It are the ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns who brought yesterday foreigners againa nd again to the country and they still do so but at the same time they want to fight them, a coalation of super equiped armies who can bomb their population everytime to Zero

- etc

- etc

- And still it are Pashtuns who serves foreign masters and for that they are everyday dying. After the Soviets were ''defeated'' and an islamic state was recalled these Pashtuns were not accepting it because :

- Pashtuns have no islamic ties. They only claim so to manipulate non-Pashtuns

- to give only Pashtuns the right to rule the country since they know if once they lose the power it means their end

- they couldn´t follow their Pashtunization agenda for more

- Pashtuns are like Sex-Toys for many powers, specially for America, and they enjoy it

- etc.
- etc.

How came the Taliban on power? After the ''civil war'' was come to an end large parts of Afghanistan had created their own governments, only the wild and barbarian south, including Kabul region hadn´t one. Many people had heard the term Taliban from the far and they were really stupid enough to believe that a bunch of Pashtun murders, homos and criminals from the south were able to bring peace and harmony back in the place were a power vacuum was created with no gov. which helped the Pashtuns to take over and spread far to north since they had not faced any resistance. They became fool by the Pashtuns and once again they had to live in a dark age. While Pashtuns had owned everything and got from day to day big and round bellies by looting NonPashtun homes and lands and owning everything they could grap, Non-Pashtuns had do fight against hunger, winter, water shortage etc. A special power of the Taliban were the Pashtun Kuchis who were settled more and more on Non-Pashtun grounds by them. Their first aims were:

- controlling Kabul, as capital of Afghanistan and a very important place showen in the history of the region. It was always a region from where powers came up and from where people resisted against every enemy

- de-Tajikize Kabul and next reighbours and give it fully to Pashtuns and Pashtun government

- driving out Non-Pashtuns and spreading and forcing Pashtu on Non-Pashtuns

- destroying their cultural and historical heritages (banning of Persian/Tajik culture, language,.... destroying of Buddha Statues, selling of ancient goods to Pakistan (Peshawar, Chaman and Islamabad) or bringing them to Pashtuns to the south. Remember how they have stolen holly relicts from Tajiks and gave it to their Talibani homosexual leaders (f.ex. Mullah Omar Kur)

- cooperating with Pakistani Pashtun secret service and trying to add Pakistan to Afghanistan or adding Afghanistan to Pakistan, at least covering up the border between the two countries (remember Karzai and his traitor family and the survuved relatives of Daud Khan, f.ex.)

The Pashtuns were supported indirectly by the US, directly by Russia over Gilgit and Xiancing by Chinese weapon smugglers, Arabs and Pakistani SS, while the small 20 000 men of Massud (Pashtuns 150 000 active Taliban and 95% of the Pashtun population, including the Pashtun Kuchis who were supporting them) were only supported by weak Tajikistan and India. Tough, Taliban had established their ultra Pashtun state, their government was never accepted as such but Massud´s was the official government of Afghanistan. After 2001, the position of Pashtuns to date is tending to the worse. Let see how ''ghairati'' and ''nangdara'' Pashtuns will deal with that. You Pashtuns should be aware of mines and other deadly weapons among you and your ''cities''. Till now, Non-Pashtuns were victims of mines brought and installed by Pashtuns but let´s see how the situation will look like if Non-Pashtuns install mines and other anti-personal- and lethal weapons directly under your a**s. Im sure the only thing that there will be there of you it will be your flying tails that the entire world will see LOL

Youtube has many good videos about the last 200 years of Afghanistan and the political changes during these years, which can be seen as references and proves to my written points. Documentaries and pictures will never lie.

Now, the question is how some figure of these nation became kings if they had never the brain for such a thing? The answer is easy. The first Pashtun ruler, Ahmad Khan Abdali, a general and a Qezelbash member, was called to King by Tajiks of Kabul and of Kandahar (Ismaelis). One of them, Saber Shah Kabuli Khan, was the first Tajik who made out of a homosexual Pashtun a homosexual king, Ahmad Khan Abdali Punjabi (Multani). Another Pashtun who became ruler because of the influence or the votings of Tajiks was Abdurahman and Dost Mohammad, the following fascists were from this line and could establish themself as kings by claiming beeing members of the royal house. In that case, Tajiks called the misery of Khorasan by themself because accepting Pashtuns means accepting barbarism, Pashtunism, Talibanism etc. and they were well aware of that fact. Many Tajiks had written a lot about the ''Afghans'' and their habbits. Now, it´s our turn to recorrect the steps our ancestors once did. We know today very well how the nature of Pashtuns are...and we should work on that and share this knowledge with everyone, specially with the Hazaras and Kabuli Tajiks who are in general very open people. That should have an end to Non-Persians.

Good sites:

sarnavesht
khawaran
jawedan
khorasanzameen
fahratmarz
and blogs


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Parsistani on May 29, 2009, 04:21:26 PM
Afghans don't have option of ignoring Iranian neighbours

LAST THURSDAY there was a small news item out of New York insinuating that Afghanistan was snubbing Canada by voting against one of our proposed resolutions at the United Nations. While this minor event failed to create much of a stir in the national media, it certainly served to illustrate both the naivety and imperialistic arrogance with which Canada approaches our mission in Afghanistan.

First, a little background on the political posturing that transpired at the UN. For the past five years Canadian diplomats have been pushing to censure Iran for human rights violations. This initiative was sparked by the 2003 death of Iranian-Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi while she was in custody in Tehran. The Iranians pushed back, not only asking why they were being singled out, but also publishing a 70-page document detailing recent human rights abuses in Canada.

No doubt they made the most of such things as extrajudicial execution of natives in Saskatchewan and British Columbia and the Tasering of a confused airline passenger. When this finger-pointing came to a climax, the Iranians tabled a "no action" motion on Canada's censure. In this first round, Afghanistan took Iran's side and very nearly turned the tables. The Iranian "no action" was defeated by a tally of just 79 to 78. The Canadian censure was subsequently approved by a vote of 72 to 50 (with an additional 31 countries choosing to abstain). Afghanistan, however, once more openly chose to vote in favour of the Iranians. The very cheek of the so-called democratically elected independent Afghanistan government choosing to oppose our initiative caused our diplomats to harrumph and cry foul.

The numbers were trotted out and regurgitated by equally incensed Canadian journalists. The fact that we are contributing 2,500 troops through February 2009 (and debating an extension to 2011); the fact that to date 73 soldiers, a diplomat and a civilian have been killed and another 570 soldiers have been wounded and injured; and the fact we've committed up to $1.2 billion toward the reconstruction of Afghanistan were presented as being significant enough to warrant absolute obedience from our Afghan benefactors. This pious attitude was best summed up by Steven Edwards at the National Post: "One interpretation of Afghanistan's view is that the government of President Hamid Karzai cares more about its relations with Iran than with Canada, despite Canada's massive commitment to Afghan deconstruction and the cost in Canadian lives."

Lost in Edward's text is the fact that Karzai would be wise to pay attention to Iranian sentiments and sensibilities. Poised along Afghanistan's western border, Iran - a nation of 80 million souls with its oil-exporting economy exploding at $100 per barrel - plays one hell of a bigger role on the future of Afghanistan than Canada ever will. Although the Afghans still don't have much in the way of legitimate commercial activity, Iran is still their major trading partner. About 20 per cent of Afghanistan's ethnic mosaic is of Persian descent and the lingua franca of the Kabul government is Dari (a variant of the Persian Farsi).

Both countries are Islamic republics and, most importantly, Iran continues to provide sanctuary for up to three million Afghan refugees who have fled across the border in successive waves during the near-continuous conflict over the past 30 years. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has in the past threatened to push these Afghan refuge-seekers back into the new U.S.-created "utopian democracy" of Karzai's Afghanistan. Anyone familiar with the circumstances knows what impact three million more unemployed, homeless former refugees would have on the fragile reconstruction underway in Afghanistan, and it is easy to understand why Karzai is keen to placate Ahmadinejad.

Add to this the fact that there are a number of Canadians running around screaming about Afghan human-rights abuses and suddenly the Afghan decision to vote in favour of Iran is not so puzzling. From the Afghan perspective we need to remember Canada is just one of the 37 nations contributing foreign troops to the security operation. In terms of firepower, manpower and equipment, the U.S. mercenary corporation Blackwater alone plays a far larger role than our entire military contingent. Our promised civil-aid package is nowhere near the largest donation and amounts to peanuts compared to their illicit drug trade.

While we debate in Parliament the end date of our commitment to Afghanistan, there is no such discussion among Iranian leaders because they don't have the option of walking away from the problem. Karzai appeasing Iran? Go figure.

Don´t miss to watch http://watchnewfilms.com/movie.php?id=1618


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Parsistani on May 30, 2009, 03:26:03 AM
Khurasanzad,

good points you have above mentioned. I would recommend some movies like ''The Charge of the Light Brigade'' or ''The betrayal of Surat Khan'' (a continuation of the first one). Both movies are explaining the political situation of India and Pakistan/Afghanistan. Furthermore, they show how the native population of Pakistan and NWFP are cooperating with the british crown and how their minds are working, specially that of the Pashtuns. They also show how Pashtun tribesmen are kidnapping and killing female members and children of the british and Indo-British corps and how their children get terrorized and massacred. Even babies are their victims. Noone should be suprised of Pashtuns. They are still the same people as they were yesterday, see on Taliban and the rest of their groups.#

Have a look on this http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/tribal/churchill.html

Churchill: "Stone Age savages whose daily deeds are treachery and violence."

Compare now by yourself modern Pashtuns and those who lived 100 years ago


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Parsistani on May 31, 2009, 12:51:10 PM
good point.
I noticed that too in Afghanistan - there was nothing but love between its people. sadly, in the west, facsists have been lurking around the internet in particularly, posting vicious lies that create more hatred and division between all people in afghanistan as well as it's diasporic population.


hahaha at Punjabis. I think that title is reserved for Indian-loving Kabulis

Yeah ... I guess that why Afghanistan was such a paradise before 2009, right?! ::)

http://www.sarnavesht.com/main/index.php/weblog/extended/1492/
http://www.sarnavesht.com/main/index.php/weblog/extended/1393/


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Lindt on June 01, 2009, 02:44:17 AM
Have you even been to Afghanistan in recent years? if not, you are in no position to speak  ::)


And why have ProudAfghan's posts been deleted when Khurasanzad's filth has continued to stain this forum? i'm disappointed in the biased stance of the admin.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Parsistani on June 01, 2009, 03:22:17 AM
It seems that you are unrelated with Afghanistan. In Kabul, a Non-Tajik would not even turn his face to a Pashtoon or enter a Pashtoon shop. Stop propagating your BS. Every Non-Tajik know who Pashtoons are and why they are in Kabul, Mazar, Herat act.

Quote
Ethnic tension, insecurity casts doubt on Afghan vote

KABUL (Reuters) - The legitimacy of Afghan elections this year could be jeopardized if dominant ethnic Pashtuns fail to vote due to poor security and disenchantment with President Hamid Karzai, raising the prospect of even worse violence.

Fighting is already at its heaviest since U.S.-led forces toppled the Taliban in 2001, but almost all battles are in the south and east; areas populated by Pashtuns, many of them angry at their perceived exclusion from power and alleged abuses by foreign troops.

If Pashtuns feel more disenfranchised after the polls due in September, the impoverished and traumatized country could be polarized further still and violence could reach new peaks.

"Pashtuns are less likely to participate in elections because of bad security and yet they represent the largest part of the Afghan population," said Wahid Mojdah, a political analyst and expert on the Taliban.

"For 150 years the Pashtuns have been in government in Afghanistan, in every phase that Pashtuns have been out of power there has been war in Afghanistan," he said.

Recognizing that Pashtun participation is key to ensuring success in the presidential election, the United States is to deploy most of its planned 20,000 to 30,000 extra troops to secure the south.

"With the introduction of two additional brigades, the regional commander in the south should have sufficient manpower to ensure successful elections," said one U.S. defense official at the Pentagon, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Karzai, a Pashtun from the southern province of Kandahar, the birthplace of the Taliban, has lost a good deal of public support due to his failure to improve security and clean up endemic official corruption since he was elected in 2004.

"There's a clear sense that people haven't been given what they were promised. It was implied there would be stability and democracy and I don't think that has happened at all," said an international analyst in Afghanistan, who declined to be named.

Many Pashtuns also feel Karzai has given too much power to northerners who helped U.S. troops oust the Taliban.

NORTH AND SOUTH

In a country where even voting for the Afghan equivalent of Pop Idol was clearly split along ethnic lines, the next presidential election is likely to be similar to the last when results closely mirrored the country's ethnic divisions.

The first hurdle is the registration of voters which begins in the southern Pashtun heartlands in eight days time.

A senior electoral official said if security did not improve in the south, voter registration would be low.

In Ghazni province, southwest of Kabul, the Taliban have made great inroads in the last two years, but it is still more secure than the volatile southern provinces of Kandahar and Helmand.

Even so, election officials were not able to reach large parts of heavily populated, but remote Pashtun districts of Ghazni because of the strength of the Taliban there, Habib Rahman, head of the provincial council, told Reuters.

By contrast, voter registration in the mainly ethnic Tajik, Hazara and Uzbek provinces of the north has already been completed without major incident.

"It's completely different from the south, we could provide security for the voters even with just one or two policemen, but you cannot do the same in the south," said Mohammad Omar Sulaimani, governor of Kunduz province in the north.

A possible rival Pashtun candidate to Karzai could also split the vote in the south and east and, were it not for the deep divisions among the minority groups, could lead to an upset.

"An Uzbek, a Hazara or Tajik winning would destabilize the country," Mojdah said. "It's unlikely this would happen, but if it does it will lead to many problems in Afghanistan ... the Taliban do not want a U.S.-style democracy here."

Low voter registration in the south might not necessarily mean a low turnout in the election as those who still have voting cards from the 2004 poll can use them instead and officials admit it is impossible to know how many have kept their old cards.

Tight security then only needs to be imposed on election day itself, diplomats say.

If close to 100,000 foreign troops and some 140,000 Afghan security forces cannot secure the country for "just one goddarn day," a senior Western diplomat said, then "what the hell are we doing here?"

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE50B3P320090112?pageNumber=2&vi rtualBrandChannel=0

I also have another one for you

Quote
Afghan recovery report: Land dispute sparks ethnic tension

Source: Institute for War and Peace Reporting (IWPR)

Date: 09 Oct 2008

Pashtun refugees returning to claim homes and lands in Takhar face opposition from local Uzbeks.

By Gulrahim Niyazman and Sayed Yaqub Ibrahimi in Takhar (ARR No. 302, 9-Oct-08)

Life is becoming increasingly perilous for 82 families who have spent the past six weeks languishing in an old prison in Takhar province. Denied food and clean drinking water, and living in the open without adequate shelter, they are becoming desperate.

"The soldiers bring things from the local bazaar, and sell them to us for four times the normal price," said Shahwo, a 45-year-old woman who has been virtually imprisoned for more than one month. "If you ask them for change, they just say 'shut up or I'll smash you in the mouth'."

In late August, Shahwo and more than 500 former residents of Takhar province returned following years of exile in Pakistan.

Most are Pashtuns, the majority ethnic group in Afghanistan, who had fled the fighting that plagued their province during the Soviet invasion. Now, after more than two decades, they have come back to reclaim their houses and lands.

But local residents, drawn mainly from the Uzbek minority, have long since moved into the abandoned properties.

To prevent an outbreak of hostilities, say the authorities, they brought the Pashtuns to an old prison in the Khajabahauddin district of Takhar. Originally built by jihadi commander Ahmad Shah Massoud in the mid-1990s to jail Taleban fighters, it has turned into an uncomfortable refuge for the returnees.

"My children are ill, they have fever, diarrhea, vomiting," complained Shahwo. "I cannot take them anywhere for treatment. Yesterday one of my neighbour's children died, and we could not even have a normal funeral service. Armed men accompanied us to the cemetery."

The troubles started several weeks ago, when the 82 Pashtun families, numbering 575 persons, arrived in Lalah Gozar, a village in Khajabahuddin district. They possessed documents that they claim proved their right to lands and houses that they had occupied before they were driven out by war. Since 1985, the families had been living across the Pakistan border, in Balochistan. Now they wanted to come home.

But the Uzbek residents of Lalah Gozar were not eager to see the truck caravans containing the worldly possessions of the Pashtun families. They blocked roads and staged protests to keep the returnees from unloading their belongings.

"Why should I give my 102 jeribs to these people?" said Qari Hamidullah, an Uzbek resident of Lalah Gozar.

The lands in question have a long and troubled history. According to Hajji Jamshed, an Uzbek elder in Lalah Gozar, the territory was originally held by Uzbeks.

"We have 80-year-old documents saying that this area was under the control of our fathers, who worked the land," he told IWPR. "Fifty-two years ago, the government came and took these lands from us and gave them to the Pashtuns. Then they came and started to work on these lands. But we will not let these murderers, these al-Qaeda terrorists back, not at any price."

Many Afghans blame the Pashtun majority for the excesses of the Taleban regime. Taleban were drawn largely from the Pashtuns, and they imposed a strict interpretation of Islam on an often unwilling population.

"We are not related to any …. group," said Abdul Jabar, one of the returnees. "We were just victims of fighting. But just by being part of an ethnic group we are [under suspicion]."

Given the level of local antagonism, it seems the government had little choice but to put the Pashtuns in the old prison, said Hajji Akram Anwari, governor of Khajabahuddin district.

"The Pashtun returnees have legal documents," he told IWPR. "But if they went right to their homes they would have been attacked by the Uzbek militias.

"These returnees are not prisoners. But where they are now is the safest place for them."

His fears seem to be well-founded.

"We were waiting in ambush for those returnees," said Hajji Jamshed. "If the governor had not stopped them and taken them to the prison, we would have attacked them and killed them."

The returning Pashtuns say that the land, given to them by the government over 50 years ago, was just a swamp before their fathers and grandfathers cleared it and made it usable. According to the law in force at the time, non-arable land distributed by the government became the property of those working it after 30 years.

"We were given the lands by the government in 1957," said Abdul Jabar, one of the returnees. "We should have received title deeds in 1987, but we had to leave in 1985, because of the fighting. Was this our fault?"

Uzbeks living on the land abandoned by the Pashtuns are confused as to who actually owns it.

"I have been living in this district for 15 years," said Khal Mohammad. "I came here during the civil war, built a house in Mahajer Kishlaq and started to live here. I do not know whether somebody has documents for this land. I do not."

Another Uzbek resident, who did not want to be named, told IWPR that, for him, the issue was clear. "These lands belong to those families who have returned from Pakistan," he said.

His understanding is that the lands were given away during the chaotic civil war years of the mid-1990s.

"The land was distributed to other people by Mohammad Kabir Marzban, who was governor of Takhar at that time," he said. "But in my opinion the returnees have the right to the land and it should be returned to them."

Faiz Mohammad Tawheddi, spokesperson for the provincial governor, said that had the Pashtun returnees informed the government in advance of their decision to come back, better accommodation might have been found.

But the returnees are not asking for government shelter; they want their houses and lands.

"I lived here, and left my home because of the Soviets," said Shahwo. "I do not see the need to ask permission from the government to come back. These people stole my home, and the government should kick them out."

The government has been slow to act. The issue is a delicate one, because of long-simmering ethnic tensions in the country. The president has sent a delegation to investigate, but the issues are too complicated to be easily resolved.

"After talking to both sides, we asked that we be given one month to find a solution," said Wahidullah Sabawoon, who headed the presidential delegation. "We had two suggestions for the president, either to send the whole issue to the courts, or to return the lands to the refugees by decree. He is studying the question."

Abdul Jabar Sholgarai, a parliamentarian from Ghazni province, who was also a member of the delegation, said, "We were unable to solve the problem. There are political hands behind this. They are provoking the Uzbeks against the Pashtuns in order to gain control of the region."

He would not specify exactly who could be responsible.

The delegation is making a second attempt to resolve the issue, but tempers are running high.

Doctor Zalmai, head of the complaints commission of the Mashrano Jirga, parliament's upper house, told IWPR that the fires of protest were being fanned by some politicians.

"Kabir Marzban and Engineer Raz Mohammad are behind this issue and are supporting a specific ethnic faction. Unless they are both arrested, there will never be a solution to Khajabahuddin," said Doctor Zalmai, who like many Afghans only uses one name.

But Kabir Marzban, formerly governor of Takhar and now a senator, denied that he was involved.

"The return of these people has nothing to do with me," he told IWPR. "It's the responsibility of the government to give them back their homes."

Engineer Raz Mohammad, a representative for Takhar in parliament's lower house, could not be reached for comment.

Some members of the government are trying to depoliticise the issue, hoping that a more pragmatic approach will yield results.

Sher Mohammad Etibari, Afghanistan's minister for refugees and repatriation, was summoned to parliament to give information about the crisis.

"These people (the Pashtuns) were residents of that area," he testified. "Even the Uzbek elders confirm this. They say that the treatment of these returnees is cruel. (Some people) are taking advantage of the government's weakness."

Etibari said the government should judge the situation on its legal merits, "If the government uses its authority in the area and acts according to the documents … the issue will be solved in a day. But if the issue becomes politicised, it will take months."

For now the Pashtun families are living in very difficult conditions.

"We have 29 families living in one of the prison yards, with just three rooms," said Abdul Zahir, 30, who was sitting in the shade of one of the prison walls. "Another 35 families are living in another yard, with just four rooms. The remaining 18 families are living in the main prison block, where the rooms are two metres long and one metre wide. Each family has one room."

The prison is guarded by groups of police, who are meant to keep the families safe. But those inside feel more like inmates than guests. They have little food, the water is foul, and many subsist on wild greens that they cut and boil.

"Some of our people have become ill and have died, because we cannot get them medicine," said Abdul Hakim, head of a family of ten. "Our children cannot go outside. Local warlords are beating people who try to help us, and they have told the local bakeries not to sell us bread. Even the Russians were not this cruel. And these people call themselves Muslims and jihadis?"

Sayed Iqbal, head of the provincial refugee department, told IWPR that his office could do little for the returnees.

"The refugee department in Takhar is just symbolic," he said. "I am the head of the office and I receive 3,000 afghani per month (approximately 60 US dollars). If I have official guests I have to pay for their tea and cookies out of my own pocket. So how am I supposed to help these returnees?"

Engineer Manan, a representative of the returnees, went to Kabul to talk to the government. But he, too, was unable to make any progress. "Unfortunately the government is doing nothing," he told IWPR.

With the beginning of the election campaign, the government of Hamed Karzai, who is himself Pashtun, has not wanted to side too openly with the Pashtuns in the north, said Manan.

"These lands are ours, and everybody knows that these lands are ours," he said. "We have valid documents. But the government is silent. It is trying to conduct an election campaign, to get the votes of the local people, and show that the government is not on the side of the Pashtuns. Instead, it is on the side of some local warlords."

With the approach of winter, he said conditions for the returnees could deteriorate, "But even if we die under the rain and snow, or perish from hunger, we will not leave our lands."

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/EVOD-7K9GZB?OpenDocument&query= documents%20on%20Afghanistan

Sooner or later, Americans will expand their attacks on Taliban and the Pashtoons also to north and west of Afghanistan. At the moment, it´s the turn of the south and east, up to NWFP. And sooner, Tajiks will also kick Pashtoons out the sh*it of them in Kabul, Herat, Farah etc. and send them back where they came from. The immigrants who came illigal back to north and central to support their Pashtoon brothers against the Non-Pashtoon people and civilization and in turn Pashtunize the country there will do not work more and everyone is aware of that fact. Noone want Pashtoons, neither Tajiks, Iranians, Punjabis, Sindhis, Tarkhanis, Aababzis, Baluchis, Europeans etc., just noone. Khurasanzad´s comments were possibly not deleted because of their truths in them that make some uneducated persons hard to believe it. I have read the BS what Taliban4Ever have created and it had a deletion value. Btw, he was swearing.

Pashtoon populated regions and Pashtoon world
(http://www.rawa.us/h-kill1.jpg)
(http://goodrichfoundation.org/files/Kuchi%20Nomads%20WEB2.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_thlFYTjJbmQ/RxzWaTfnlSI/AAAAAAAACZY/ykXqvqqJ21c/s320/BurqaBand.jpg)

Non-Pashtoon populated regions and Non-Pashtoon culture
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Tajik_dastarkhan_meal.jpg)
(http://www.advantour.com/img/tajikistan/dushanbe/dushanbe.jpg)
(http://www.aso-ok.org/images/iran/Shiraz.jpg)
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/0b/a8/79/view-of-dushanbe-from.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/dushanbe2004/Dushanbe_picture/Dushanbe_a_view.JPG)
(http://www.payvand.com/news/08/apr/Persian-Parade-NY4.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Afghan_kids_wearing_traditional_clothes_in_Kabul.jpg)
(http://thundafunda.com/2/traveling-pictures-tourism/download/Shrine%20of%20Hazrat%20Ali,%20Mazar-e%20Sharif,%20Balkh,%20Afghanistan.jpg)
(http://cdn.daodao.com/ext/photo-s/00/10/90/22/i-m-in-dushanbe.jpg)
(http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/hammasa_kohistani_miss_england3.jpg)

I say it again. It´s like ''Iran vs. Turan'', ''Brightness vs. Darkness'', ''Civilization vs. Washigari''.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Lindt on June 01, 2009, 04:55:15 AM
parsistani,

there is a different with relying on what is written because you do not know whether the author is being biased, or what exactly their intentions are. it is another thing to actually go to afghanistan and realise that although ethnic tensions continue to persist, it really is not destructive amongst everyday people whether they are rural or urban dwellers.

your comment about entering shops owned by a certain ethnic group... ya, im sure that's a lie. i have been to afghanistan and it seems like you have not.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Parsistani on June 01, 2009, 05:14:08 AM
parsistani,

there is a different with relying on what is written because you do not know whether the author is being biased, or what exactly their intentions are. it is another thing to actually go to afghanistan and realise that although ethnic tensions continue to persist, it really is not destructive amongst everyday people whether they are rural or urban dwellers.

your comment about entering shops owned by a certain ethnic group... ya, im sure that's a lie. i have been to afghanistan and it seems like you have not.

 ::) ::)

sitting in the West and enjoying asylm and welfare than talking without any idea what is going on in Afghanistan does not make you to a trusty person. I was for a short time as a communicater and translater in September and Dezember 2008 in Kabul and Faizabad. In the coming December I will possibly go again to Faizabad and Kunduz for 8 month. I know how it looks there and I also know the ethnic rivalry between Pashtoons and Tajiks. Not a single Non-Pashtoon will ever enter the field of a Pashtoon because they fear that they get kidnapped or killed by a suicide bomber. Living side to side with a Pashtoons meaning accepting attacks. Modern medias like Youtube are the best examples for the ethnic differences between Pashtoon terrorists and the Guardians of Khurasan and represent very well the situation in Afghanistan. You just disregarding this fact for your sick illusions and wet dreams. If you want to be a trustful man than don´t act like a liar here. There is nothing that has the value to hide it from reality. Those who have a brain and the intellect will be able to see the reality than this feignes picture you want to potray. Every educated person will make his own picture about Afghanistan and it´s ethnic rivalry, specially in Kabul where Pashtoons have no good situations. In Afghanistan, many facts are not out-spoken and are banned by the government and one of them is the screaming of Pashtoons. Kabul is a Tajik city, Tajik ruled city and only Tjaik laws have to be there.


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Khurasanzad on June 05, 2009, 02:05:43 PM
www.sp.unipi.it/files/2848-disintegration-as-hope-05-2006-09-11-afghanistan.pdf

Disintigration as a Hope - by Mauro Vaiani, scholar of University of Pisa

Read also http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article1375.html


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on June 07, 2009, 02:02:47 PM
ohhhhhhhhhhh khorasanzad bachem,

ive been asking you all week about this family of yours in toronto that you were trying to threaten me with

lol

until you realized that i aint no joke

so cmon big man, you talk real big about pashtuns on line like a coward

i am here in toronto, show me your family and friends. i am willing to video tape and upload on to tajikam.com

cmon buddy

you brought up my family first to disrespect them, then you brought up that you know im from toronto and you have family here as if to threaten me

cmon baby


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Khurasani on June 08, 2009, 12:14:37 AM
Amir al Ghaznavi i am really sorry because of you. This is your Ghayrat. You cant bring any logical reason and you ask Khurasanzad for his address and family..

Pity for you..


Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Amir al Ghaznavi on June 08, 2009, 11:40:18 AM
Khurasani

I am sorry you lack logical reasoning and deduction capabilities

your bias and lack of common sense is exposed

Everyone of you on this site have accepted Khurasanzads daily attacks and insults on Pashtuns, that go beyond any reasonable academic critique, and than you have the nerve to criticize me you munafiq?

Khurasanzad insults Pashtuns online, so I told him, not to be a coward, and that if he wanted to insuilt pashtuns he should be willing to do so to Pashtuns to their face. I then asked him why wouldnt he identify who he is, so that Pashtuns can address him personally

He then mentioned that he KNEW i lived in toronto, and that he had family here.

So you Munafiq, dont criticize me. Criticize your coward friend here, who brought up my location first, and brought up his family first, and made threats and insults first



Title: Re: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement
Post by: Khurasani on June 08, 2009, 02:39:39 PM
Amir al Ghaznavi the Amiril Mominin thanks for the word Munafiq.

Topic Closed.