March 19, 2019, 09:36:24 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Our new place: www.tajikam.com/forums

To enter with your registered details click here and follow the steps: http://tajikam.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=global§ion=lostpass
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Poll
Question: What alphabet do you perfer for Persian?
Arabic - 11 (30.6%)
Latin - 8 (22.2%)
Cyrillic - 3 (8.3%)
Arabic (modified) - 10 (27.8%)
other - 4 (11.1%)
Total Members Voted: 36

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 13
  Print  
Author Topic: What alphabet do you perfer for Persian  (Read 58199 times)
Gul agha
Ahura Mazda
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 479



View Profile WWW Email
« on: February 26, 2008, 07:31:37 PM »

What alphabet do you perfer for the Persian Language if you had a choice to change it.
Logged

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
به نام خداوند جان و خرد, کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
Gul agha
Ahura Mazda
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 479



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 07:52:02 PM »


When the Latin letters adorned the new alphabet
Soon the demand became slow for the Arab alphabet

In the scientific era the new alphabet is like a plane
The Arabic alphabet is like a weak donkey in pain

Whoever learned the old alphabet in school
Remained ignorant and suffered like a fool

So easy is learning this new alphabet
That one can become in three weeks literate

The Arabic alphabet is hard to discern
It takes at least three precious years to learn

For a single sound it has several letters
But many sounds are around with no letters

The easiness of Latin one can judge by sight
When it is written from left instead of right

Each letter has a single form to describe
It is easier also for the person to scribe

Latin alphabet makes it impossible for Kard to become Kurd
or kisht as kusht, sayr as sir, dawr as dur, and mard as murd.

The arabic word aqil(wiseman) is like ghafil(ignorant), a dud
It does not distinguish also between the rose and mud

I and u and o have each no letter
Nor can a and e find themselves any better

For the z sound forms are suited to four
Hardships for non-Arabs more than before

For the sound of s you can have forms thrice
Pupils are like the cat, the forms are like the mice

Two letters for t, h and ayn each
Mastery for children is out of reach

Its poor technique has the world in puzzle
Order and reason never reached this muddle

While the worst person in the world is a tsarist officer
In cruelty abd atrocity no one can make him look better

Though tsarist princes are cruel and base
In infamy and harm the Arabic alphabet can win the race

We are joyful today when our luck turned good
And the Arab alphabet was kicked out for good.

A poem by Abdukwahid Munzim (Tajik Poet from Tajikistan)
Logged

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
به نام خداوند جان و خرد, کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
Kambiz
Dervish
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +317/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 772



View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 08:28:10 PM »

LOL. That was interesting. Did you translate it yourself?
Monzem (Munzim) had been ordered by the Soviets to write this poem prior to the alphabet change in 1929. They wanted to uproot whatever Persian and Muslin in the country. It didn't take longer than 10 years to realize that Latin was not convenient enough either. Because Iranians and Afghans could understand it easily. That's why they decided to Russify it in 1939.

Quote from: Gul agha;6449

When the Latin letters adorned the new alphabet
Soon the demand became slow for the Arab alphabet

In the scientific era the new alphabet is like a plane
The Arabic alphabet is like a weak donkey in pain

Whoever learned the old alphabet in school
Remained ignorant and suffered like a fool

So easy is learning this new alphabet
That one can become in three weeks literate

The Arabic alphabet is hard to discern
It takes at least three precious years to learn

For a single sound it has several letters
But many sounds are around with no letters

The easiness of Latin one can judge by sight
When it is written from left instead of right

Each letter has a single form to describe
It is easier also for the person to scribe

Latin alphabet makes it impossible for Kard to become Kurd
or kisht as kusht, sayr as sir, dawr as dur, and mard as murd.

The arabic word aqil(wiseman) is like ghafil(ignorant), a dud
It does not distinguish also between the rose and mud

I and u and o have each no letter
Nor can a and e find themselves any better

For the z sound forms are suited to four
Hardships for non-Arabs more than before

For the sound of s you can have forms thrice
Pupils are like the cat, the forms are like the mice

Two letters for t, h and ayn each
Mastery for children is out of reach

Its poor technique has the world in puzzle
Order and reason never reached this muddle

While the worst person in the world is a tsarist officer
In cruelty abd atrocity no one can make him look better

Though tsarist princes are cruel and base
In infamy and harm the Arabic alphabet can win the race

We are joyful today when our luck turned good
And the Arab alphabet was kicked out for good.

A poem from Abdukwahid Munzim (Tajik Poet from Tajikistan)
Logged
Tehran
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +10/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 66


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 08:32:44 PM »

we created the Nast'alliq script and we must use it for our language. if we change our script, we would lose our calligraphy
Logged
Kambiz
Dervish
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +317/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 772



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2008, 08:39:11 PM »

Quote from: Tehran;6454
we created the Nast'alliq script and we must use it for our language. if we change our script, we would lose our calligraphy


And not only. Hundreds of thousands of precious books will vanish as well.
Logged
Gul agha
Ahura Mazda
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 479



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 09:06:20 PM »

I found this poem in Mujaleh Paiman. I'm not in favor of changing the current alphabet but simply modifying it.
Logged

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
به نام خداوند جان و خرد, کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 09:18:05 PM »

Other than the historical argument - not losing our link to the past - which may not be valid anymore (converting all old texts to new alphabet can be computerized) ... there is one strong argument in favour of keeping the alphabet : because the differences in accents between Tajik-tajikistan, tajik-Afghanistan, Persian-Tehrani, and Persian-Isfahani, and so on ... having Arabic alphabet erases all differences and promotes the unity of the language. We with all  write in the same way but read with slightly different pronunciations !!
Logged
Tehran
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +10/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 66


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 09:25:32 PM »

Quote from: Darius;6456
And not only. Hundreds of thousands of precious books will vanish as well.

the thought of not being able to read the poem inscribed on hafez's tomb is just SAD
Logged
arya-zadah
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +17/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 82


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 11:37:03 PM »

yes, definitely it would be good to keep Arabic one. but why not simplify it? just like Japanese have done?  one "heh" instead of two, one "zeh" instead of 3, one "seh" instead of 3, one "teh" instead of 2, remove "ayn" from the beginnings of words but keep hamzeh(?), remove "qaf" (?) etc. we could simplify the writing of words that now are pronounced shortly by majority of persians, like "misheh/meshah" instead of mishavad/meshavad?
Logged
Parsistani
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +216/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 744


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2008, 12:49:06 PM »

The ancient Persians and their brothers used also ''semtic'', proto-arabic writing scripture (arameic). I do not cara about the alphabete but about the vocabulary. Maybe someone of us is very smart and develope a new alphabete?
I am against latin because we have different (including old iranian dialects ->soghdi) dialects and if we write in latin we won´t understand eachother. Turks in turkey have often this problem. In that case arabic do not know such a problem. Arabic can have 1000 different dialects but everywhere you can see they write the same phrases with the same letters.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 12:51:10 PM by Parsistani » Logged

Kambiz
Dervish
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +317/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 772



View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2008, 08:04:00 PM »

Quote from: Parsistani;6597
The ancient Persians and their brothers used also ''semtic'', proto-arabic writing scripture (arameic). I do not cara about the alphabete but about the vocabulary. Maybe someone of us is very smart and develope a new alphabete?
I am against latin because we have different (including old iranian dialects ->soghdi) dialects and if we write in latin we won´t understand eachother. Turks in turkey have often this problem. In that case arabic do not know such a problem. Arabic can have 1000 different dialects but everywhere you can see they write the same phrases with the same letters.
I doubt there is any need to create a new alphabet. The existing Perso-Arabic will do. All our forefathers have been using it and we don't need a division between us and them. We've seen it already twice in Tajikistan. Results are horrible. Thus perhaps we should keep what we have.
Logged
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2008, 09:55:25 PM »

Yes, I agree with you, Darius Jan.
Quote from: Darius;6611
I doubt there is any need to create a new alphabet. The existing Perso-Arabic will do. All our forefathers have been using it and we don't need a division between us and them. We've seen it already twice in Tajikistan. Results are horrible. Thus perhaps we should keep what we have.
Logged
Neo Bactra
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +10/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 75


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2008, 11:58:02 PM »

Quote from: Darius;6611
I doubt there is any need to create a new alphabet. The existing Perso-Arabic will do. All our forefathers have been using it and we don't need a division between us and them. We've seen it already twice in Tajikistan. Results are horrible. Thus perhaps we should keep what we have.

Absolutely. I agree with you for the following two handy reasons: first, there is an overwhelming number of Tajiks who live outside Tajikistan and who do not understand alphabets other than Perso-Arabic. Second, these Tajiks will be deprived of benefits by the Tajik scholarship produced in Tajikistan.

Wsalam
Logged
PORS
AZADANDESH
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +999/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1061



View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2008, 11:03:41 PM »

Dorood Tehrani giromi:

Could you please comment on this:
Quote from: Tehran;6454
we created the Nast'alliq script and we must use it for our language. if we change our script, we would lose our calligraphy


Little background and difference between Arabic and Nast'alliq would be great. Thank you.


Tandurust bimoned,




Pors.
Logged

از گذشته بیاموز ،امروز را با خشنودی بگذران. در اندیشه اینده باش و اینده را بساز. - پارس
_______________________________________
THINK RIGHT>SAY RIGHT>ACT RIGHT!
پندار نیک>گفتار نیک>رفتار نیک
PENDARE NEK>GOFTARE NEK>RAFTARE NEK!
Unity
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +518/-0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1870


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2008, 09:10:52 AM »

It doesnt matter what we use, as long as it connects us with each other and connects us with our past ,will be good.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 13
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP bluBlur Skin 2006, hbSkins
Powered by SMF 2.0 RC1 | SMF © 2006–2009, Simple Machines LLC
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!