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Question: What alphabet do you perfer for Persian?
Arabic - 11 (30.6%)
Latin - 8 (22.2%)
Cyrillic - 3 (8.3%)
Arabic (modified) - 10 (27.8%)
other - 4 (11.1%)
Total Members Voted: 36

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Author Topic: What alphabet do you perfer for Persian  (Read 62858 times)
Farangis
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« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2008, 09:17:03 AM »

Quote from: Rika Khana;6962
It doesnt matter what we use, as long as it connects us with each other and connects us with our past ,will be good.

Exactly..
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، من اگر بنشینم
، تو اگر بنشینی
چه کسی بر خیزد؟

، من اگر برخیزم
، تو اگر برخیزی
!همه بر می خیزتد
!!!! همه بر می خیزند، همه بر می خیزند
Kambiz
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« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2008, 09:29:30 AM »

Quote from: Farangis;6963
Exactly..


So nice to see you here Farangis. dorud and welcome!
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PORS
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2008, 07:13:30 PM »

Dorood,

Here is what one of the Tajik scholars think of wich alphabet should be used in Tajikistan. Hope you will enjoy that.

Perooz bemaned,


Pors.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqGfmQ7zWp4&]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqGfmQ7zWp4&[/ame]
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از گذشته بیاموز ،امروز را با خشنودی بگذران. در اندیشه اینده باش و اینده را بساز. - پارس
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2008, 04:23:27 PM »

Dorood
bande bar in bavaram ke dabireye bigane be darde zabane ma nemikhorad che arabi bashad che roosi va che englisi . az dide man behtar ast yeki az dabirehaye pish az eslam ra be rooz konim va an ra be kar bebarim .
albatte in kar hargez nabayad be jodayie keshvarhaye parsi zaban daman bezanad yani in ke in 3 keshvar har kari ke mikhahand bokonand bayad ba hamrahi va hamkari bashad .
va anche roshan ast in ast ke dabireye arabi be khatare pishine ash az digar dabirehaye bigane behtar ast . migooyand : '' miyane bad va badtar bayad bad ra bargozid " .
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Nastoh
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2008, 04:02:22 PM »

Bargasht ba dabireye (alefbaye) pish az Islam kare asane nest. Baraye bargasht ba alefbaye pish az Islam bayad nokhost zabane Parsi ra az kalemate arabi paak kard wa tamami kalemate asile farsi ra janeshine shan namood. ba taqibe an bayad tamami osaare adabi zabane Parsi ra ke pish az Islam negashta shoda ast, motalea kard wa az miane shan dabireye ra entekhab namood.
 
Agar Tajikan betwanand zabane Parsi qable Islam ra rayej nemayand, moafaqiate bozorg khwahad bood. Harch ast bayad ba zoodi anjam shawad. Dawlate Imam Ali Rahman dar in qesmat waqt gozarani mekonad wa baraye taghire khate cyrilic hich kare namekonad.
Quote from: MH.nezhadaria;7832
Dorood
bande bar in bavaram ke dabireye bigane be darde zabane ma nemikhorad che arabi bashad che roosi va che englisi . az dide man behtar ast yeki az dabirehaye pish az eslam ra be rooz konim va an ra be kar bebarim .
albatte in kar hargez nabayad be jodayie keshvarhaye parsi zaban daman bezanad yani in ke in 3 keshvar har kari ke mikhahand bokonand bayad ba hamrahi va hamkari bashad .
va anche roshan ast in ast ke dabireye arabi be khatare pishine ash az digar dabirehaye bigane behtar ast . migooyand : '' miyane bad va badtar bayad bad ra bargozid " .
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اگر آزدی ما زیر سوال برود و اگر غرور ملی ما درهم شکسته شود و اگر استقلال ما نابود گردد، در آن صورت این زندگی ما کوچکترین لزت و ارزشی ندارد. احمد شاه مسعود
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2008, 12:14:41 AM »

dorood bar nastoh hane gerami .
agar betawanim vazhehaye tazi ra az zabaneman biroon konim ke kheili khoob mishavad . ke shaiad dabireye irani betavanad aghazi baraye in kar bashad .
sepas
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2008, 06:41:15 AM »

Quote from: MH.nezhadaria;8155
dorood bar nastoh hane gerami .
agar betawanim vazhehaye tazi ra az zabaneman biroon konim ke kheili khoob mishavad . ke shaiad dabireye irani betavanad aghazi baraye in kar bashad .
sepas


How can we have one language rather than purify it!! this is the main issue not purification.  At the moment we see alot of different words we use in Tajikistan, Iran and Afghanistan.
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PORS
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2008, 03:44:19 AM »

Dorood RK jan,

Although, I agree with you that unity among us, Persians of Iran, Afghanistan, and Tajikistan is foremost priority because it has been retarded, but preservation of our language is also vital. It is very difficult to obtain unity if our language will be under foreign languages' pressure and we end up with difficulty understanding each other. Language is one of the prime factors we know that we have one history, culture and values. If our language will be bombarded and we will have difficulty understanding each other, then our unity will be more difficult. Therefore, I urge people to consider purification of Persian language in their conversations as the vital factor in uniting us. They, Persian words, are all sweet and meaningful than those of foreign words. However, I acknowledge that it is difficult but it's possible.

Here is useful link for that: http://parsilive.blogfa.com/

Bedrood,



Pors.
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از گذشته بیاموز ،امروز را با خشنودی بگذران. در اندیشه اینده باش و اینده را بساز. - پارس
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2008, 06:06:50 AM »

Quote from: PORS;8705
Dorood RK jan,

Although, I agree with you that unity among us, Persians of Iran, Afghanistan, and Tajikistan is foremost priority because it has been retarded, but preservation of our language is also vital. It is very difficult to obtain unity if our language will be under foreign languages' pressure and we end up with difficulty understanding each other. Language is one of the prime factors we know that we have one history, culture and values. If our language will be bombarded and we will have difficulty understanding each other, then our unity will be more difficult. Therefore, I urge people to consider purification of Persian language in their conversations as the vital factor in uniting us. They, Persian words, are all sweet and meaningful than those of foreign words. However, I acknowledge that it is difficult but it's possible.

Here is useful link for that: http://parsilive.blogfa.com/

Bedrood,



Pors.


Dear Pors jan,

Yes, i am with you.  but we have got alot of different problems in where we live.  i put unification before purification because that is important for us right now.  i also understand that purification is important.  if we have unification we can easily understand each other without any difficulty.  There are alot arabic words in our farsi, if we want to purify those words in a very revolutionary way, then it will take alot of our energy and time, and that will slightly aleniate the future generations from the work of Saddi,Hafiz Mulana Balkhi, Nasir Khesraw balkhi, Rodaki and others who each of them have alot of arabic vocabulary in their poetry.  instead if we concentrate on how we can use the same vocabulary all of us, it will be a very first and fundemantal step towards purification.  take a look at english, it is a universal language and have got loads of vocuabularies from latin, french, german etc.  on the other hand if we see Turkish language, they have tried alot to purify it, but still their langage has never gone out of their own circle.
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Dushanbe
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« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2008, 06:30:57 AM »

http://asiaplus.tj/tj/news/42/34019.html


??????? ????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ???????????, - ????????? ??????? ???????
 
03.07.2008 14:26
 
???????: ???? ???????
???????. 3-??? ???. ?? «????-????» - ????? ??? ???????? ???????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ????????????? ????????? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????????? ???????? ????. ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ????? ???????? ???.
«??????? ????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ???????????, ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????, ???? ?? ????????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ??????????, - ????? ???? ????. - ????????? ????? ?? ???????????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ????? ??????????? ?? ????? ??? ??, ??? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ????».
«?????? ??, ?? ?? ???????? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??????????? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ???????, ????? ????? ????????, ???? ???????? 80%-? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???????????? ??????? ?? ???????????? ???????????? ?? ???? ??????, ?? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ???????, ????? ????? ??????», - ???? ?.???????.
??? ??????? ??, ?? ?? ???????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ??????? ????? ????????, ???? ????? ????, ?? «???????? ????????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ????????, ?? ???? ??????» ?? ??? ?????? 22 ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????, ?? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????????? ???? ???????? ???? ????????????.
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« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2008, 11:48:40 AM »

Quote from: Dushanbe;11008
http://asiaplus.tj/tj/news/42/34019.html


??????? ????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ???????????, - ????????? ??????? ???????
 
03.07.2008 14:26
 
???????: ???? ???????
???????. 3-??? ???. ?? «????-????» - ????? ??? ???????? ???????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ????????????? ????????? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????????? ???????? ????. ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ????? ???????? ???.
«??????? ????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ???????????, ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????, ???? ?? ????????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ??????????, - ????? ???? ????. - ????????? ????? ?? ???????????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ????? ??????????? ?? ????? ??? ??, ??? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ????».
«?????? ??, ?? ?? ???????? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??????????? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ???????, ????? ????? ????????, ???? ???????? 80%-? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???????????? ??????? ?? ???????????? ???????????? ?? ???? ??????, ?? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ???????, ????? ????? ??????», - ???? ?.???????.
??? ??????? ??, ?? ?? ???????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ??????? ????? ????????, ???? ????? ????, ?? «???????? ????????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ????????, ?? ???? ??????» ?? ??? ?????? 22 ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????, ?? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????????? ???? ???????? ???? ????????????.



Dushanbe,

Can you translate it for the rest of us?

I understand that the Arabic script leaves out all of the vowels - but what other reasons are there in this professors argument about the unsuitability of Arabic script.

Thanks
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Dushanbe
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« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2008, 12:52:42 PM »

My trasliteration



Imrooz dar Ittifoqi zhurnalistoni Tojikiston vokhurii professori kafedrai zhurnalistikai Donishgohi davlatii millii Tojikistion Ibrohim Usmonov bo rohbaroni vositai akhborii ommai chopii Tojikistion barguzor gasht. Dar muloqot mas’alai guzashtan az khati kirilli ba alifboi arabi muhokima shud.
-   Alifboi arabi talaboti zaboni tojikiro purra qone’ sokhta nametavonad, zero tooli besh az hazor sol in khat dar zaboni tojiki istifoda shudaast, vale on nozukihoi zaboni tojikiro purra ifoda karda natavonist. – izhor dosht olim, - Peshnihodi chande az namoyandagoni ziyoiyoni jomea dar borai guzashtan ba alifboi arabi nodurustand va ilova bar in, hej zarurate dar in kor nest.”
-   Aqidai on, ki bo guzashtan ba alifboi arabi mo bo osori guzashtagonu omuzishi ilm bo zaboni asl shinos meshavem, asosi voqe’i nadorand, zero taqriban 80%-i merosi zarurii khattii niyogonamon ba alifboi kirilli bargardonida shudaast va mutakhassison vazifadorand bo khati tojiki, ki ba alifboi arabi asos yoftaast, oshnoi doshta boshand,” – guft I. Usmonov.
-   Dar mavridi on, ki bo guzashtan ba alifboi arabi gooyo mo bo mardumi digari forsizaboni jahon nazdiku qarin megardem, olim izhor dosht, ki khalqhoro hukumatho mavjuda ba ham nazdik mesozand, na khatu alifbo” – va chun namuna 22 kishvari jahoni arabro misol ovard, ki bo yak zabon harf mezanandu vale muttahid shuda nametavonand.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 12:55:48 PM by Dushanbe » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2008, 01:20:58 PM »

Quote from: Dushanbe;11020
My trasliteration



Imrooz dar Ittifoqi zhurnalistoni Tojikiston vokhurii professori kafedrai zhurnalistikai Donishgohi davlatii millii Tojikistion Ibrohim Usmonov bo rohbaroni vositai akhborii ommai chopii Tojikistion barguzor gasht. Dar muloqot mas’alai guzashtan az khati kirilli ba alifboi arabi muhokima shud.
-   Alifboi arabi talaboti zaboni tojikiro purra qone’ sokhta nametavonad, zero tooli besh az hazor sol in khat dar zaboni tojiki istifoda shudaast, vale on nozukihoi zaboni tojikiro purra ifoda karda natavonist. – izhor dosht olim, - Peshnihodi chande az namoyandagoni ziyoiyoni jomea dar borai guzashtan ba alifboi arabi nodurustand va ilova bar in, hej zarurate dar in kor nest.”
-   Aqidai on, ki bo guzashtan ba alifboi arabi mo bo osori guzashtagonu omuzishi ilm bo zaboni asl shinos meshavem, asosi voqe’i nadorand, zero taqriban 80%-i merosi zarurii khattii niyogonamon ba alifboi kirilli bargardonida shudaast va mutakhassison vazifadorand bo khati tojiki, ki ba alifboi arabi asos yoftaast, oshnoi doshta boshand,” – guft I. Usmonov.
-   Dar mavridi on, ki bo guzashtan ba alifboi arabi gooyo mo bo mardumi digari forsizaboni jahon nazdiku qarin megardem, olim izhor dosht, ki khalqhoro hukumatho mavjuda ba ham nazdik mesozand, na khatu alifbo” – va chun namuna 22 kishvari jahoni arabro misol ovard, ki bo yak zabon harf mezanandu vale muttahid shuda nametavonand.


Thanks.

I agree with the view that the Arabic script does not allow for all of the nuances in the Persian language to be written down - the lacking vowels has probably contributed to the widening of the pronunciation differences.

His last point is that he rejects the notion that adopting Arabic alphabet will ensure the strengthening of the Persian speaking world and says that it is government that can do that only - citing the example of the Arabic speaking nations - despite having the same language and script are not united politically since their governments are not keen on wider Arab unity. To this point I would say that should the Arab governments adopt a line of Arab unity - then the fact that they already acknowledge that they all have the same language and they all use the same script - their job of bringing about unity would be that much easier. So in that line of thinking there is still good justification for the adopting a common script amongst all Persian speakers - but since the Arabic script does have some shortcomings -  the question is raised as to which common script ought to be adopted by all Persian countries?

Here again a good outcome would be the adopting of Latin in lieu of Cyrillic in Tajikistan and the teaching of Arabic alphabet to ensure recognition of Arabic script Persian writing fro Afghanistan and Iran. In addition to that - the teaching of Latin alphabet to children of Afghanistan and Iran in order to ensure recognition of Latin script Persian writing from Tajikistan.

This would mean that all Persian speakers will get to benefit from the versatility of the Latin script - without loosing the ability to read Persian Arabic script as it has been used for such a long period in our history.

Ahhangar
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« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2008, 03:47:07 PM »

By supporting the above said, I would like to say them this way:

If to look at EU, we see that in spite of having different languages, they managed to create a Union. They are all NATO countries and allies. The main reason for this unification is their ideology: they share common values and democratic, liberal views.

The opposite is Arabic countries. In spite of having a common language and script they are not united and unprotected. If one of them attacked, none will come for help. And their unification in the near future is very doubtful.
Arabic script was forced on us and our scholars had to use this script in spite of all its shortages. We have used Arabic script for more than 1000 years, but this script could not save all the nuances of our language and we do not know how certain words were pronounced a long time ago. For this reason we need to record our written language so that after 1000 years the people could know exactly how we pronounced the words.

Additionally, every scholar in Tajikistan who is involved in research of linguistics, literature and history are obliged to know Arabic script. Knowing Arabic script and being able to read Persian is obligatory for these researchers in Tajikistan.    

What about Latin script, I think we will definitely transform to it after 6-10 years, maybe. Cyrillic has less benefit to us in comparison to the benefit that Latin will give.

Some benefits:
1.   Latin is easier than Cyrillic (bigger difference between handwritten and typed language/script)
2.   It is being taught anyways. The students start having English lessons from the first grade.
3.   It is used by many countries already.
4.   It will become easier for foreigners to learn our language.
5.   The other Persian speaking peoples will be able to read it. We have a lot of Iranian and Afghanistani students in our country and they face a lot of difficulties because of the script. The change of script into Latin will increase their numbers in our universities. (From Afghanistan they usually come to do PhD, because we have agreements between Russia and other former Soviet countries – to recognize each others’ degrees and these degrees are recognized worldwide).
6.   Being in a foreign country, my computer has no Cyrillic and I will have to type everything in Latin.
7.   Etc.
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« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2008, 06:41:18 PM »

Quote from: Dushanbe;11026
By supporting the above said, I would like to say them this way:

If to look at EU, we see that in spite of having different languages, they managed to create a Union. They are all NATO countries and allies. The main reason for this unification is their ideology: they share common values and democratic, liberal views.

The opposite is Arabic countries. In spite of having a common language and script they are not united and unprotected. If one of them attacked, none will come for help. And their unification in the near future is very doubtful.
Arabic script was forced on us and our scholars had to use this script in spite of all its shortages. We have used Arabic script for more than 1000 years, but this script could not save all the nuances of our language and we do not know how certain words were pronounced a long time ago. For this reason we need to record our written language so that after 1000 years the people could know exactly how we pronounced the words.

Additionally, every scholar in Tajikistan who is involved in research of linguistics, literature and history are obliged to know Arabic script. Knowing Arabic script and being able to read Persian is obligatory for these researchers in Tajikistan.    

What about Latin script, I think we will definitely transform to it after 6-10 years, maybe. Cyrillic has less benefit to us in comparison to the benefit that Latin will give.

Some benefits:
1.   Latin is easier than Cyrillic (bigger difference between handwritten and typed language/script)
2.   It is being taught anyways. The students start having English lessons from the first grade.
3.   It is used by many countries already.
4.   It will become easier for foreigners to learn our language.
5.   The other Persian speaking peoples will be able to read it. We have a lot of Iranian and Afghanistani students in our country and they face a lot of difficulties because of the script. The change of script into Latin will increase their numbers in our universities. (From Afghanistan they usually come to do PhD, because we have agreements between Russia and other former Soviet countries – to recognize each others’ degrees and these degrees are recognized worldwide).
6.   Being in a foreign country, my computer has no Cyrillic and I will have to type everything in Latin.
7.   Etc.



Dear Dushanbe,

You mentioned that there are many PhD students from Iran and Afghanistan in your country, which is very interesting. I was wondering if you could elaborate on it a bit - it seems a great way to raise mutual understanding of each other - especially amongst the intellectual elite of the three countries.

Iran as I understand it has many great institutions of learning and the adoption of teaching the Arabic alphabet to the students in Tajikistan would greatly help their problems should they wish to pursue studies in Iran. Iranian degrees are highly prized - especially if they are from the top institutions of that country.

Ahhangar
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