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Author Topic: Why only Persian?  (Read 13826 times)
Dushanbe
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« on: June 27, 2008, 03:02:53 PM »

I do not understand those who edit Wikipedia. They seem to be the enemies of our nation. In the biography of our great people except Persian there should be Tajik with a slash. Some people in their utopist worlds and dreams have already changed the name of Tajik and delete that from the biographies. That is unethical. Who is that person who decides these things for the people of Tajikistan? We need to fight him!!
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2008, 04:12:46 PM »

PERSIAN is English term used for identifying people of the PARS ethnicity and PARSI culture. Tajik(i) is a Turko/Chinese term for the PARS ethnicity and PARSI culture.

So in the English section of WIKI - the correct term is PERSIAN - and not TAJIK.

The people of Tajikistan are PARS (Persian in English) - but called TAJIKS by foreigners - TURK/Chinese and later the RUSSIANS.

Please do not project the current false TAJIK ideology onto past history. It is a fallacy. Current politics and ignorance on your part is the cause of your irritation - if you knew well you would not be offended by those greats being called Persian - because Tajiks are  Persians.

You should not be offended by it - you should be happy about it.

Ahhangar
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Nader Shah
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2008, 10:19:24 PM »

Do most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe (I guess so) ? People like PORS must be the minority, right ?

It is understandable, given the length for which the Soviet Propaganda machine has been operational ...
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Afrasiab
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2008, 03:24:16 AM »

Quote from: Nader Shah;10659
Do most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe (I guess so) ? People like PORS must be the minority, right ?

It is understandable, given the length for which the Soviet Propaganda machine has been operational ...


Yes, most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe and people like PORS are in minority. I also feel myself Tajik and Iranian-Aryan, but not Persian. I think, it should not be problem.
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Ahhangar
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2008, 07:31:34 AM »

Quote from: Afrasiab;10672
Yes, most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe and people like PORS are in minority. I also feel myself Tajik and Iranian-Aryan, but not Persian. I think, it should not be problem.


Indeed we are all Iranian - we are all Iranic peoples - our inter-Iranic language is Persian - what links us all together is the Persian language which has elements of all Iranic languages within it and is more than a language of just the PARS peoples.

In Tajikistan the PARSi (Tajik) speakers - are Pars ethnically - but those whom speak other Iranic languages - like Yaghnobi - or other Pamiri languages - they are not Persians - but all the Iranic peoples are IRANIAN.

The Persian language belongs to all Iranians - not just the Persians.

Ahhangar
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Ahhangar
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2008, 07:34:30 AM »

Quote from: Nader Shah;10659
Do most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe (I guess so) ? People like PORS must be the minority, right ?

It is understandable, given the length for which the Soviet Propaganda machine has been operational ...


Indeed Nadershah,

It is understandable for the ordinary folk of Tajikistan whom do not have access to many different sources of books and authors - but for a person like Dushanbe - whom is fluent in English - it is very puzzling that he still believe in the Soviet-Turkic propaganda.

Ahhangar
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Afrasiab
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2008, 09:39:23 AM »

Quote from: Ahhangar;10685


In Tajikistan the PARSi (Tajik) speakers - are Pars ethnically - but those whom speak other Iranic languages - like Yaghnobi - or other Pamiri languages - they are not Persians - but all the Iranic peoples are IRANIAN.


Ahhangar



I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between “Persians” and “Iranians”.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of “Tajik”. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.
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Gul agha
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2008, 03:08:25 PM »

Quote from: Afrasiab;10692
I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between “Persians” and “Iranians”.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of “Tajik”. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.


being a Persian Speaker is totally different from being an ethnic Persian. The real definition of Persian is in fact Iranian or Indo-Iranic meaning every Tajik, Kurd, Alan, Baluch...etc is a Persian. The Greeks started this concept when they called Greater Iran "Persia" and the people of Persia (greater Iran) "Persian". Tajik is also a foreign concept started in the east. The Chinese first used the term "Ta-Yeuzhi" for the Sakas,Tocharians, and later on for the Kushans; This term evolved into "Tajik" when the Turkic tribes came to Central Asia. Calling ourselves Persian, Tajik, Aryan, Iranian is no different from a German using Allemande, Deutsch, German..etc for his Identity. When we are speaking English or any other western language it is better to use Persian than Tajik.
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2008, 03:19:11 PM »

Quote from: Afrasiab;10692
I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between “Persians” and “Iranians”.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of “Tajik”. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.

Zooooonk
Bactrians, Parthians and Sogdians were already strongly mixed with Persians...before the advent of Islam...that does not mean that original eastern-iranian people like Yaghnobis aren´t Persians. First of all ''Persian'' is not a race but more a civilization and equal to the Iranian civilization (from Babylonia to India)...everyone that lived in the Persian empire was declared and was known as Persian...of course mostly by outsiders (Greecs,...,Macedonians). Indians used for Tocharians and Sassanians the term ''Tayui''. Tati people who are ethnic Persians of Aserbaidshan do also not speak the same language as we do it today but an middle evli dialect, a purely Parthian dialect...but they are still Persians..Lurs speak a southern dialect of Persian so aren´t they Persians? The only reason why Yaghnobies and other small Tajik communities speak another conservative language is because they didn´t lost their original language while we had to reintroduce Persian in a deformed version. Arabic´s influence is one and main reason of many others. How do you know how the eastern dialects differed from western ones? Old-Persian died out and Parthian was another dialect that took Old-Persian´s place...and Soghdian and Parthian were on the same level...plus Soghdian was in easten Iran known as ''lingua franca''...just because some speak anothr Iranic language does not mean they are different, maybe some but the majority are the same. The difference between the southern iranic language of Wakhi etc. are not big...but concerned to Pushtu they are two different languages different like  water and fire. Yaghnobis speak today only another dialect of Parsi...an older one. That´s it..

Ps:modern Persian language is the result of all eastern Iranian dialects with the fundamental qualities of Persian language...
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 03:34:07 PM by Parsistani » Logged

Ahhangar
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2008, 03:25:03 PM »

Quote from: Afrasiab;10692
I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between “Persians” and “Iranians”.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of “Tajik”. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.


Dear Afraiseb,

I want to retract my initial statement that all Tajiks of Tajikistan are Persian ethnically. You are right that originally alot of the population what was considered eastern Iran and north eastern Iran had Bactrian - Sogdian and other Eastern ethnics. They differed in language to the Persians but both they and the Persians were of the same IRANIAN race. You are correct in this assertion and I thank you for correcting me.

If we define a Persian as person whom is Iranian by race and speaks the Persian language - then.....

Do you not think that since the eastern Iranian peoples have accepted the New Persian - which is influenced so heavily by their own languages - that today they ought to be known as Persians? I mean if they are the same race as the original Persians - i.e. Iranian - and now they speak Persian - what difference is there really between them and Persians?

What are your thoughts?

I am happy as long the Iranian identity is promoted so that all the language groups are united.
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Ahhangar
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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2008, 04:37:05 PM »

Quote from: Gul agha;10703
being a Persian Speaker is totally different from being an ethnic Persian. The real definition of Persian is in fact Iranian or Indo-Iranic meaning every Tajik, Kurd, Alan, Baluch...etc is a Persian. The Greeks started this concept when they called Greater Iran "Persia" and the people of Persia (greater Iran) "Persian". Tajik is also a foreign concept started in the east. The Chinese first used the term "Ta-Yeuzhi" for the Sakas,Tocharians, and later on for the Kushans; This term evolved into "Tajik" when the Turkic tribes came to Central Asia. Calling ourselves Persian, Tajik, Aryan, Iranian is no different from a German using Allemande, Deutsch, German..etc for his Identity. When we are speaking English or any other western language it is better to use Persian than Tajik.


I agree with you that the word Persian used by foreigners - especially by Westerners - is meant as a term that covers the whole of the Iranic world and not confined to the political geography of present day Persia - Iran. So in that sense - absolutely when using talking in English we ought to use Persian.


Internally speaking - when using our own language - if an ethnic or original Pars is defined as a person of Iranian race whom uses the Parsi language - then anyone of us whom is from the Iranian race and now speaks Parsi as a mother tongue can be considered as ethnic Pars.

I think in Afghanistan - the term PARSI for the language and the term PARS for the ethnically Iranic peoples whom speak PARSI - should be adopted as it would better unite the people whom are often 'Tajiks'.

It is a clear fact that the term Tajik is not widely used by the PARS peoples of Afghanistan and is a foreign term. It is probably why our people have resorted to emphasizing their geographic origin as identities. The term Tajik was an acknowledgment of Turkic superiority - and it could be part of the reason why they do not respect us - unless they have their head kicked in.

Those whom are not ethnically Pars and speak Persian - and whom have always acted to sabotage Pars (Tajik) unity within Afghanistan should not be our concern at the moment.
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Dushanbe
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 05:24:40 PM »

A complete mess!!!!!! I suppose Ahhangar likes salads very much (or Spanish cuisine), (I do not know if he knows Tajik "shakarob")  


Quote from: Ahhangar;10710
I agree with you that the word Persian used by foreigners - especially by Westerners - is meant as a term that covers the whole of the Iranic world and not confined to the political geography of present day Persia - Iran. So in that sense - absolutely when using talking in English we ought to use Persian.


Internally speaking - when using our own language - if an ethnic or original Pars is defined as a person of Iranian race whom uses the Parsi language - then anyone of us whom is from the Iranian race and now speaks Parsi as a mother tongue can be considered as ethnic Pars.

I think in Afghanistan - the term PARSI for the language and the term PARS for the ethnically Iranic peoples whom speak PARSI - should be adopted as it would better unite the people whom are often 'Tajiks'.

It is a clear fact that the term Tajik is not widely used by the PARS peoples of Afghanistan and is a foreign term. It is probably why our people have resorted to emphasizing their geographic origin as identities. The term Tajik was an acknowledgment of Turkic superiority - and it could be part of the reason why they do not respect us - unless they have their head kicked in.

Those whom are not ethnically Pars and speak Persian - and whom have always acted to sabotage Pars (Tajik) unity within Afghanistan should not be our concern at the moment.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 05:28:53 PM by Dushanbe » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 07:25:12 PM »

Quote from: Dushanbe;10830
A complete mess!!!!!! I suppose Ahhangar likes salads very much (or Spanish cuisine), (I do not know if he knows Tajik "shakarob")


Dear Dushanbe,


A mess is something that is full contradictions. Show me how it is a mess by showing the contradictions within it.

A difference between what foreigners use to refer to us and what we should us to refer to us is the point of the above post.

I do not know "Shakarob" - so please enlighten me.

The real mess is the current situation which is the result of countless policies imposed on us by those whom did not have our interests at heart.

All of us are part of the same Iranian race - some of us speak different languages - like Yaghnobi or Shughnani or Bakhtiari or Kurdi or Persian. Being a Persian is one who is of the Iranian race and speaks Persian.
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Dushanbe
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2008, 07:40:54 PM »

Quote from: Ahhangar;10831
Dear Dushanbe,


A mess is something that is full contradictions. Show me how it is a mess by showing the contradictions within it.


No. A mess is something which is a mixture of many things. In other words: chaos.
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2008, 07:46:27 PM »

Quote from: Ahhangar;10831
Dear Dushanbe,

All of us are part of the same Iranian race - some of us speak different languages - like Yaghnobi or Shughnani or Bakhtiari or Kurdi or Persian. Being a Persian is one who is of the Iranian race and speaks Persian.


Exactly! Persians are of Iranian race. I am also of Aryanic race.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 07:49:16 PM by Dushanbe » Logged

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