January 18, 2020, 03:19:20 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Our new place: www.tajikam.com/forums

To enter with your registered details click here and follow the steps: http://tajikam.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=global§ion=lostpass
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
  Print  
Author Topic: Ethnicity * language: In search of identity, or on how tajiks became uzbeks  (Read 14634 times)
Dushanbe
P & A
Full Member
***

Karma: +113/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 232



View Profile Email
« on: July 11, 2008, 12:23:45 PM »

Very interesting

http://bordersca.wordpress.com/

http://bordersca.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/ethnicity-%e2%89%a0-language-in-search-of-identity-or-on-how-tajiks-became-uzbeks-4/
Logged

To Be Born Free - is Luck. To Live Free - is a Privilege. To Die Free – is a Responsibility.
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 06:04:29 PM »

Dear Dushanbe,

What are your views about the Tajiks of Uzbekistan whom are being forced to become Uzbeks?

What is your view about Samarqand and Bukhara ?

Ahhangar
Logged
Dushanbe
P & A
Full Member
***

Karma: +113/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 232



View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 04:57:03 PM »

Dear Ahhangar,

My project about Samarkand and Bhukhoro is very long, but I will try to brief it so that it was not like a salad.

1.   First we need to create our Khorasan. The tribal areas should be given to Pashtuns so that they created their Pashtunistan by adding those tribal arias from Pakistan.
2.   Then, we should combine both Tajik lands into one state. I do not think that Hazara people will want independent and become isolated between Talibans and us, so we can give them autonomy within our country. And, probably, educated Pashtuns will not want to live under Taliban regime, so we will Persianise them very quickly.
3.   A bigger country becomes a strategic country and most developed countries would like to cooperate to us – and we will have more opportunity for development.
4.   After some year when we will be more developed and on our foot with confidence, we shall take another steps:
-   We need somehow to destabilize our neighboring country Uzbekistan. We know that there is Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan that wants to fight with Uzbekistan and make an Islamic country. We need secretly create camps and train them, make them more extremist and send them to Uzbekistan. After that we need secretly sponsor them and supply with weapons. Let there be some conflicts or a civil war. I believe this will be a long war. After some years of war when the country becomes weak, we shall stop supporting islamists, so that they were slowly destroyed.
-   At the same time we shall increase the self-awareness between Tajiks and create some ethnic conflicts so that people could pay attention to their differences.
-   When we will have a lot of supporters within Uzbekistan we shall invade Uzbekistan and take back our Samarkand and Bukhoro regions and kick out ethnic Uzbeks from there.
I tried to make it brief…

So, what do you think about my project?      



Quote from: Ahhangar;11364
Dear Dushanbe,

What are your views about the Tajiks of Uzbekistan whom are being forced to become Uzbeks?

What is your view about Samarqand and Bukhara ?

Ahhangar
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 05:00:07 PM by Dushanbe » Logged

To Be Born Free - is Luck. To Live Free - is a Privilege. To Die Free – is a Responsibility.
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 05:49:00 PM »

Quote from: Dushanbe;11394
Dear Ahhangar,

My project about Samarkand and Bhukhoro is very long, but I will try to brief it so that it was not like a salad.

1.   First we need to create our Khorasan. The tribal areas should be given to Pashtuns so that they created their Pashtunistan by adding those tribal arias from Pakistan.
2.   Then, we should combine both Tajik lands into one state. I do not think that Hazara people will want independent and become isolated between Talibans and us, so we can give them autonomy within our country. And, probably, educated Pashtuns will not want to live under Taliban regime, so we will Persianise them very quickly.
3.   A bigger country becomes a strategic country and most developed countries would like to cooperate to us – and we will have more opportunity for development.
4.   After some year when we will be more developed and on our foot with confidence, we shall take another steps:
-   We need somehow to destabilize our neighboring country Uzbekistan. We know that there is Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan that wants to fight with Uzbekistan and make an Islamic country. We need secretly create camps and train them, make them more extremist and send them to Uzbekistan. After that we need secretly sponsor them and supply with weapons. Let there be some conflicts or a civil war. I believe this will be a long war. After some years of war when the country becomes weak, we shall stop supporting islamists, so that they were slowly destroyed.
-   At the same time we shall increase the self-awareness between Tajiks and create some ethnic conflicts so that people could pay attention to their differences.
-   When we will have a lot of supporters within Uzbekistan we shall invade Uzbekistan and take back our Samarkand and Bukhoro regions and kick out ethnic Uzbeks from there.
I tried to make it brief…

So, what do you think about my project?


I think you need a better plan. Relying on IMU is rather naive - but then again I do not think you are serious - so what are you actually trying to say?

My question was not what is your plan to rescue Tajiks - it was what you thought about their position within Uzbekistan and the Uzbekization of them ?
Logged
Dushanbe
P & A
Full Member
***

Karma: +113/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 232



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 06:21:42 PM »

Quote from: Ahhangar;11397
I think you need a better plan. Relying on IMU is rather naive - but then again I do not think you are serious - so what are you actually trying to say?

My question was not what is your plan to rescue Tajiks - it was what you thought about their position within Uzbekistan and the Uzbekization of them ?


I will tell you my thoughts about Tajiks of Uzbekistan some other time because I have a lot to say. I have a lot of relatives there and know how they are being Uzbekisized.

But now about what I said above...

I am very serious...It is one of the best plans and idea about how to achieve our goal.
Do you really think that there will be a peace in Afghanistan and Talibs will give up? It is very difficult and almost imposible to create a country which has no majority. "Either federation or separation" seems to be possible so far.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 06:25:20 PM by Dushanbe » Logged

To Be Born Free - is Luck. To Live Free - is a Privilege. To Die Free – is a Responsibility.
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 06:56:53 PM »

Your idea is interesting, but the questiion is: will it always remain a dream, or is there a practical way to implement it ? I would like to hear what Darius has to say, as in my opinion he is the most experienced, seasoned and knowledgeable person from Tajikistan on this forum.
Quote from: Dushanbe;11400
I will tell you my thoughts about Tajiks of Uzbekistan some other time because I have a lot to say. I have a lot of relatives there and know how they are being Uzbekisized.

But now about what I said above...

I am very serious...It is one of the best plans and idea about how to achieve our goal.
Do you really think that there will be a peace in Afghanistan and Talibs will give up? It is very difficult and almost imposible to create a country which has no majority. "Either federation or separation" seems to be possible so far.

What do you think?
Logged
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 07:04:51 PM »

Quote from: Dushanbe;11400
I will tell you my thoughts about Tajiks of Uzbekistan some other time because I have a lot to say. I have a lot of relatives there and know how they are being Uzbekisized.

But now about what I said above...

I am very serious...It is one of the best plans and idea about how to achieve our goal.
Do you really think that there will be a peace in Afghanistan and Talibs will give up? It is very difficult and almost imposible to create a country which has no majority. "Either federation or separation" seems to be possible so far.

What do you think?

Ok. So you want to talk about Afghanistan. That is interesting. Indeed Afghanistan is the key to resolving the situation of the Tajiks in the north - especially in Uzbekistan.


My solution for Afghanistan - as a Pars (Tajik) of Afghanistan - is:

Unite the Iranic-Pars (Tajik) peoples of Afghanistan effectively - so that they act as one in politics, economics and in conflict.  


Then things we cant even imagine right now will become possible - not only in Afghanistan - but also in the surrounding area.

I do not believe in the disintegration of Afghanistan - all of it is originally Pars (Tajik) land - except for a few pockets in the extreme south east.

I do not believe in giving autonomy to other ethnic groups - especially the Hazaras and Uzbeks within Afghanistan. Belief in the benefits of autonomy for them is a position of weakness due to that lack of unity of the Pars (Tajik) people of Afghanistan currently. Also, I do not want the neighbors - to be able to have influence within Afghanistan - especially Shia fundamentalist Iran with Hazaras and Russia - Uzbekistan with the Uzbeks.  With them unable to interfere within my land our Pars (Tajik) peoples can then start thinking about helping out other Pars (Tajik) peoples outside their borders and sorting out Uzbekistan Pakistan Turkmenistan and the bad elements of Iranian government.
 

For now I just prefer to advocate and work for the unity of the Pars (Tajik) peoples of Afghanistan. Success in that goal is the basis of everything else - and it is not an easy thing to achieve.

Ahhangar
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 07:12:50 PM by Ahhangar » Logged
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2008, 07:55:20 PM »

Why are you so concerned about Shia fundamentalists from Iran ? The people who had influence over you were the Sunni Fundamentalists of your own country, such as Taliban, and Pakistan ****ed you real good, now you should worry about them much more. You have allowed Pakis to **** you till you bleed to death and now you are worrying about shia fundamentalists in Iran who are actually building some of your roads, future railways, and your neighboring cities such as Herat. Go figure :rolleyes:
Quote from: Ahhangar;11404
Also, I do not want the neighbors - to be able to have influence within Afghanistan - especially Shia fundamentalist Iran ...
Ahhangar
Logged
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2008, 07:59:17 PM »

No wonder Pakis, Uzbeks, and just about everyone else come and mess with Tajiks and other Persian-speaking people as they are more afraid of the only people who might want to help them one day ...
Logged
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2008, 08:28:11 PM »

Quote from: Nader Shah;11405
Why are you so concerned about Shia fundamentalists from Iran ? The people who had influence over you were the Sunni Fundamentalists of your own country, such as Taliban, and Pakistan ****ed you real good, now you should worry about them much more. You have allowed Pakis to **** you till you bleed to death and now you are worrying about shia fundamentalists in Iran who are actually building some of your roads, future railways, and your neighboring cities such as Herat. Go figure :rolleyes:


Nader Shah,


You are one wild fanatic supporter of your Akhonds! Look at your language!

Indeed we have no love for Akhonds of Iran - we would rather they were publicly hang - like so many people of Iran do.

Why are you reacting in such a stupid way to my comments about Akhondi Iran?

If you think that the current Iranian regime is a supporter of Tajiks - you are quite mistaken.

Many of our enemies have built roads and cities. USSR - USA - PAKITSAN and many more - and that should mean we should love them to no end? You need to calm down - and think about your stupid support of Akhonds.

The Iranian regime played a massive role in smashing Kabul up - through its low life Shia Hazaras. It did not play any positive role in the struggle of Persian unity in Afghanistan - on the contrary it did everything it could to destroy it - even siding with Gulbudin!

My above list includes Pakistan and many other alongside Iranian Akhonds - so your response is quite absurd.

Thanks for revealing your real attitude.
Logged
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 08:31:25 PM »

Quote from: Nader Shah;11406
No wonder Pakis, Uzbeks, and just about everyone else come and mess with Tajiks and other Persian-speaking people as they are more afraid of the only people who might want to help them one day ...


Nader Shah - you need to stop being emotional. Iranian Akhonds are not our friends - they are our enemies - even though they speak Persian.
Logged
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2008, 08:42:03 PM »

You are revealing clearly the attitudes that have destroyed Persian unity by insulting Hazaras who are Persian speaking and can be your allies - same with Akhonds who could become your allies but you are insulting them as well. No one loves Akhonds even in Iran ... and certainly not me ... but by turning so much of your anger against them you are displaying the same attitude that has caused you to be divided, weak, yet talking big when your *** was ****ed by a bunch of Paki trained taliban
Quote from: Ahhangar;11407
...low life Shia Hazaras ...Persian unity in Afghanistan
Logged
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 08:49:48 PM »

Exactly the same attitude from centuries ago from your ancestors who caused you to end up in the same country with your true friends Afghans :D So, what are you complaining about ... Iran is worse than Pashtuns so stick with them :)
Quote from: Ahhangar;11408
Nader Shah - you need to stop being emotional. Iranian Akhonds are not our friends - they are our enemies - even though they speak Persian.
Logged
Nader Shah
Afshar Naderi
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +126/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 1036



View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2008, 09:06:35 PM »

A great Tajik strategist who really cares for the interests of his people would not make enemies of everyone, when his people are extremely weak and divided and have been mercilessly raped by Pashtuns and Pakis, but rather seek allies despite the fact that there might be differences.

Emomali Rakhmon maybe not be a great strategist, but he is acting wisely in seeking help even from Akhonds, because ultimately the Tajik people will benefit from it.

An egotisic and emotional person would do the irrational, which is shoot at everyone in sight, even his brother with who he has differences, and end up dying. Your strategic thinking is very immature. Grow up kid :) dont let criminals from Hazara gangs scar you emotionally and act against your own interests ...

Hopefully in a few years when you are older and wiser, you will think differently and less emotionally. You are a pretty clever educated young guy, just need to wisen  up a bit :)

 
Quote from: Ahhangar;11408
Nader Shah - you need to stop being emotional. Iranian Akhonds are not our friends - they are our enemies - even though they speak Persian.
Logged
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2008, 09:43:10 PM »

Quote from: Nader Shah;11412
You are revealing clearly the attitudes that have destroyed Persian unity by insulting Hazaras who are Persian speaking and can be your allies - same with Akhonds who could become your allies but you are insulting them as well. No one loves Akhonds even in Iran ... and certainly not me ... but by turning so much of your anger against them you are displaying the same attitude that has caused you to be divided, weak, yet talking big when your *** was ****ed by a bunch of Paki trained taliban


LOL.  I did not call Hazaras low life - that quote you pretend to have is made up by you - and my name attached to the top - great strategy! lol

What do you hope to achieve for you beloved Hazaras with that? lol

You are quite ignorant of the events of Afghanistan.

And you think that Hazaras are for Persian unity? LOL  - ask them about their joining of the Taliban - and how they were treated afterwards by their new allies!

A bunch of Paki trained Taliban managed to be so effective due to elements like Hazaras and Uzbeks and others. They joined the Taliban Pakis on the directives of the masters in Tehran and Tashkent !

And no the Pakis did not kick our asses - we stood out despite of all the connivance of the Iranian Akhonds and their Hazaras - the Paki Taliban and countless others.

We have always paid dearly for our freedom - and when we are strong enough we will deal with all our enemies - including the Iranian Akhonds - infact especially them. This is the aim - but what policies should we adopt to that end - that is another matter - that could entail accepting the aid of the Iranian Akhonds without conditions today and making closer ties - as Rahmon is doing. Policies is another debate altogether.



 Ahhangar
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP bluBlur Skin 2006, hbSkins
Powered by SMF 2.0 RC1 | SMF © 2006–2009, Simple Machines LLC
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!