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Author Topic: Partition  (Read 3763 times)
Khorasanpur
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« on: August 19, 2008, 12:13:14 AM »

Partition

No matter how people feel about the condition of Afghanistan, hardly any effort has gone into fixing the problems.  Taken by face value, it might seem like a lot has been done in favor of the country and that the country has improved drastically, but it is only a façade.  Once you delve deeper in, you can see just how weak the entire infrastructure truly is.  And this is where the problem lies.  Only certain, small parts of the country are doing relatively fine but overall the country is virtually falling apart because there is no strong foundation.  This “show” is put on for the sake of the rest of the world, to please those that control it.  So therefore, when solutions are brought forth and if the “government” doesn’t approve of them, they can use that façade of the country on its way to betterment to reject the suggestions.  One solution that has been mentioned time and again is partition of the country.  It has been the one of the most discussed topics and also one of the most rejected ones.  Recent events as well as past historical tribulations have illustrated that the only solution for Afghanistan is separation.  
 
Dividing Afghanistan has always been a much-heated and much-debated topic.  Whether it be to divide it by North and South, or separate independent states for several provinces, the underlining solution is to separate the lands and, most importantly, the people.  However, no step has been taken to go forward with such a solution.  One of the main supported resolutions is separation by North and South—to divide the Non-Pashtuns and the Pashtuns.  Such ethnic aversion is expected considering the shaky history and relationship between the ethnicities of Afghanistan—mainly of Pashtuns with everyone else.  For 250 years, the Pashtuns had power over most of the regions of Afghanistan whether it was in the form of a monarchy, communism, or terrorism via religious fanaticism.  Most recently, they have tried gaining power through fraudulent elections and official appointments in the legislatures.  With 250 years in power, there is hardly any achievement to show for it.  The greatest achievement of the Pashtuns is that the nation is literally at the bottom.  Afghanistan’s status is the 177th country among 180 countries of the world, signaling just how poor and devastated the country is.  It receives its budget from international donations and half of that money is spent on security of the south because 90% of the country’s violence comes from the south.  The Pashtun’s ignorance and arrogance have arisen time and again during the Loya Jirga and the creation of such a bogus constitution.  When the non-Pashtuns asked for a parliamentary system, the Pashtuns rejected it.  Pashtuns are not and never will think of creating a government that is necessary or even fair for our diverse nation by acknowledging past historical events and are instead trying to restore Pashtun hegemony.    
 
There are those non-Pashtuns who don’t wish to go over or remember past events/bad memories—they want to take the easy way out and just start fresh.  However, there are those that do NOT want to forget and believe that a fresh start can only occur when there has been some sort of change.  And by keeping the Pashtuns in power—the same ethnicity that has literally and truthfully brought ruin to the country—there will be no improvement or change for the country, certainly not for the non-Pashtuns and perhaps even some poor Pashtuns.  Pashtuns are originally from the South so perhaps and they can rightly go back there and govern rightly over their own people.  And leave the North to themselves.  Now, some people have stated that once the Pashtuns are gone, the non-Pashtuns might just start fighting with each other and that’s why they prefer to have separate independent states—the Tajiks with Tajikistan, Uzbeks in Uzbekistan, the Hazaras as their own nation.  This may very well work out, too, but they must first try to understand just where their problems began and if they work them out.  After all, they share a lot in history, culture, literature, etc.  
 
Most of the problems that are present among non-Pashtuns are due to Pashtuns.  In the past, pre-Afghanistan, the Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Turkmans, etc. lived side by side in Khorasan.  There was no threat of communism or terrorism.  Terror started with the first footsteps of Abdali.  By separating the North and the South that is the first step towards change.  Right now, there is no stability in the country and its people.  Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns do not have anything in common—historically, culturally, etc.  Only recently do the ethnicities have some things in common like the literature and language and that is only because Pashtuns became persianized as they came to the north.  Most Pashtuns adopted Dari as their language, Persian poets as their choice of literature, etc.  Which is why it seems so hypocritical when those same Pashtuns want to push Pashto and Pashto “literature” and “culture” unto the rest of the country—they didn’t and/or can’t speak the language themselves and they want to force others to accept it.  Now, if they badly want Pashto and Pashto culture to be a big part of Afghanistan, then they should all travel back to the South and contently enforce Pashto unto their own people.  The people of the North have their own history and culture and they appreciate it and have appreciated it for hundreds of years.  
 
Pashtuns did not bring any progress in the past—which is fairly obvious considering the condition of the country today—so logically, they won’t bring any progress in the future.  And if the country is partitioned finally, there is no way it could get any worse.  But even so, just how worse could it possibly get?  Separation of the country shouldn’t be seen as a failure of the country but rather as an improvement and a solid and proper change.  When we factor in all the information—dangerous and ineffective Pashtun rule, misrepresentative country name, forced Pashto assimilation—the only solution can be to separate.  Living with Pashtuns did not work in the past and so it won’t work for the future.  After all, one can not and should not try living a normal life with cancer—you have to get rid of the cancer or it will destroy you from the inside out.  Whether it’s slowly and secretly or fast and outwardly there are only two ways out and they are by cutting it off or letting it kill you.  
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rooyintan
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 04:16:34 AM »

The root of all divisions and problems between various ethnic groups was the British Empire. As soon as Brits invaded India and formed British East India Company all problems started, prior to that there was divisions between Sunni and Shiite during Safavid period but at that time all ethnicities still considered themselves Aryan(Iranian, Arya-yi). Ahmad Abdali created an independant nation but I believe there was still unity amongst different ethnicities. In recent years Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Pushtun leadership, Yanks & Poms are to blame for all problems in Afghanistan.

Dividing the country could be good but drawing borders could cause more problem such as War. Also about joining certain ethnicities to other countries such as Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, what if these countries don't want extra population and land?
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shinno
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 05:32:34 AM »

Even if the country was divided into pieces where will Herat go as it doesn't have a border with tajikistan and there are many uzbeks and turkmen living in between mazar and herat. Will Herat join Iran? Does Iran want a sunni populated area with all these mullahs?. Do uzbeks of Afghanistan want to join the oppressive uzbekistan where people are imprisoned for going to mosque too much? If hazaras join tajikistan with the rest of tajiks will they feel more of a minority than now? Hazaras are a minority in a country of minorities which is Afghanistan and if they join tajikistan they will become a small minority with a very big tajik majority. Drawing new borders isn't easy and it diffenitely will not happen as long as the USA and other major powers have intrest in the state of Afghanitan.
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 06:58:46 AM »

Shoma maloom hast chi migid???!?!?!?!?!??:confused::confused::confused:
Donbale khoonrizi migardid??!!!!!!!!:confused:
Akhe kodom tajziye tahala baese solh shode????
Agar qara be tajziye shodane Afqanestan bashe hame miyoftan be joone hamdige ta sahme zaminhashoonro afzayesh bedan taze avale bad bakhtitoon mishe.

Ye kam fekr konid.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Tanha badaz yeki do nasl az bache haye amoozesh dide mishe roye solh fekr kard ama ba tajziye hich vaqt:(:(:(
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 07:02:25 AM »

Think about the impact this process of separation will have on neighbouring countries and beyond:

You'd have the Kurds then wanting their own little 'Kurdistan', Shi'a Iraqi's waging war and asking for a separate state from their Sunni counterparts. Israel would probably be destroyed. Pakistan... God knows if that'll even exist. The Baloch would want an individual nation. And the Greeks and Turks would most likely resort to violence over Cyprus.

Separation is a romantacised idea and from a realistic point of view it won't be happening anytime soon. Think about it... Afghanistan has bigger things to worry about.
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Dushanbe
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 07:21:59 AM »

Before separation, it is better to think of federation first. In the federal republic the borders of the smaller republics within a state are usually determined. Then - federation usually leads to separation. I do not think that it is possible to start the separation first.:(
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Nader Shah
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 07:52:56 PM »

The ideal solution might be for Persian speaking people to rule Afghanistan, since they are a majority, through a democratic process and for Pashtuns to stop using violence, accept that they are a minority, and enjoy their autonomy within Afghanistan without bothering other groups. This way, no bloodshed, no suffering, and no change of borders. But are Persian speaking people united enough to vote en masse for one candidate (answer: NO), and are Pashtuns willing to relinquish their monopoly on power and in forcing cultural issues down other people's throat (answer: NO) ?

About Herat, I thought that most people there are Shia Tajiks, but it seems this is no longer the case. Anyway, no one will dare to annex Herat by force in this day and age, unless they vote to break up from Afghanistan - if such a mechanism existed for separation in the AFG constituion which probably is not the case - and join Tajikistan or Iran. Countries with non-contiguous territories exist (e.g Russia) so this option need not be ruled out totally.
Quote from: shinno;13642
Even if the country was divided into pieces where will Herat go as it doesn't have a border with tajikistan and there are many uzbeks and turkmen living in between mazar and herat. Will Herat join Iran? Does Iran want a sunni populated area with all these mullahs?. Do uzbeks of Afghanistan want to join the oppressive uzbekistan where people are imprisoned for going to mosque too much? If hazaras join tajikistan with the rest of tajiks will they feel more of a minority than now? Hazaras are a minority in a country of minorities which is Afghanistan and if they join tajikistan they will become a small minority with a very big tajik majority. Drawing new borders isn't easy and it diffenitely will not happen as long as the USA and other major powers have intrest in the state of Afghanitan.
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shinno
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2008, 11:17:34 AM »

Quote from: Nader Shah;13675
The ideal solution might be for Persian speaking people to rule Afghanistan, since they are a majority, through a democratic process and for Pashtuns to stop using violence, accept that they are a minority, and enjoy their autonomy within Afghanistan without bothering other groups. This way, no bloodshed, no suffering, and no change of borders. But are Persian speaking people united enough to vote en masse for one candidate (answer: NO), and are Pashtuns willing to relinquish their monopoly on power and in forcing cultural issues down other people's throat (answer: NO) ?


The ideal situation would be for all the people in Afghanistan to unite and seek justice. A true democracy is the ideal solution, afghanistan is not like lebanon where the president has to be christian and the prime minister muslim. We are all brothers and the most deserving candidate should be the president, no matter what colour, race or creed he belongs to. We must work towards that as that is the best solution in the long term. It will be hard but it surely is not impossible.
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2008, 12:13:52 PM »

Quote from: shinno;13642
Even if the country was divided into pieces where will Herat go as it doesn't have a border with tajikistan and there are many uzbeks and turkmen living in between mazar and herat. Will Herat join Iran? Does Iran want a sunni populated area with all these mullahs?. Do uzbeks of Afghanistan want to join the oppressive uzbekistan where people are imprisoned for going to mosque too much? If hazaras join tajikistan with the rest of tajiks will they feel more of a minority than now? Hazaras are a minority in a country of minorities which is Afghanistan and if they join tajikistan they will become a small minority with a very big tajik majority. Drawing new borders isn't easy and it diffenitely will not happen as long as the USA and other major powers have intrest in the state of Afghanitan.

Pashtun e Ulaaghzai, Herat is a Shia province. Why don´t you wahabi-salafi cockroaches move back where you came from??? Mongolia? Israel? India?n Sooner or later you will fall under the banner of a rewaken strong nationalist government, but this time it will be the Persian-Speaking population.
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Pur e Zaal
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2008, 06:27:36 PM »

Countries have broken up on various grounds. Some have been merged or annexed into more powerful ones. Some have been formed through freedom fighting struggles. But a quick review of the disintegration process that has hit many countries in the the past decade or so shows that the breakup of the once independent states has taken place mainly along ethnic and religious lines.

The breakup of the former Soviet Union produced many independent states which are mainly along major ethnic lines. As the recent development in Georgia indicates, the disintegration process stills continues in that region more explicitly in line with ethnic affiliation and autonomy. The study of the breakup of Yugoslavia confirms this process. Balkanization is a term that owes itself to this very process.

Recently peoples have come to more and more identify themselves along these lines, which are also called "fault lines" that have caused many bloodbaths in different parts of the world, characteristically so in Afghanistan.  Sudan and Indonesia can offer the best examples of breakup along religious affiliations. The Islamist government of Sudan and its Christian population have been involved in a bloody war for quite some time now. East Timor was created out of the state of Indonesia because of its distinct religious population.  Former Yugoslavia can provide an ideal case for the study of disintegration along both lines. Examples of such inevitable political phenomena are handy and numerous if interested readers decide to approach the issue impartially.

Disintegration can even happen within the same religious canopy. How many independent Arab countries have emerged today that didn't exist only two or three decades ago? They are all generally Arab by race and Muslim by religion. However, they decided to part ways with their own cousins to seek their own dreams. They are all independent and at ease with one another now. I specifically mention the Arab case because Afghans who obstinately and emotionally insist on the maintenance of the unitary state of Afghanistan, despite the high cost that ethnic groups are paying for, should understand that disintegration is not an unislamic phenomenon at all. I say this because when all logic and rationality fail in Afghanistan, religion is then invoked. Religious excuses are offered to dismiss the idea of federation or partition. Given the religious zeal of an overwhelming majority of Afghanistan, these excuses often work.

Becaus I see another Taliban regime in the making in Afghanistan by the ethno-fascists of Afghan Mellati regime in Kabul now, I want to warn that this outrage needs to be averted, no matter what price is paid for it. If partition or disintegration keeps that outrage and human catastrophe from happening again, then let’s welcome it. No God or virtue can justify the presence of a country that is a living hell for its citizens that are culturally and linguistically poles apart. One thing that is sure to happen is this: human history records that the moment there is a struggle for independence or self-determination, that struggle can be suppressed for some time, but it will eventually overcome the hurdles and conspiracies that are certain to be raised against it.  And today it seems that we are witnessing it right before our eyes.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 11:41:59 PM by Pur e Zaal » Logged
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