February 25, 2020, 12:05:07 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Our new place: www.tajikam.com/forums

To enter with your registered details click here and follow the steps: http://tajikam.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=global§ion=lostpass
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Qizilbash-Tajiks - and Hazaras  (Read 5487 times)
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« on: May 07, 2009, 05:39:38 PM »

Dear Gul Agha,

I do not know if you managed to catch a recent program on Noor TV of USA - in which Mr Madani interviewed a very leaned man and scholar from Chindawol - whom talked about the real face Daud Khan - and his plans to slaughter all Qizilbash using his Hazara allies. Hazara have always united with those forces whom were against the Kabulian - all through history.

Against Habibulah Kalakani, when Qizilbash were instrumental in the fall of Kabul  - in the fight against Massoud in which Massoud had many Qizilbash allies - in the fight against those whom wanted to remove the fascist Daud.

Has anyone her thought - what may have happened - had the powr hungry dog Daud not launched a coup de ta against the Parliamentary System - with a nominal head of state - Zahir Shah?  The real power was given to the prime minster - Musa Shafiq whom did many great things - one being the move to solve the water crisis with Iran and to drop the stupid Pukhtunistan issue with Pakistan - but Daud Khan ruined it all. He took over - under pretence of creating a republic - he made himself absolute ruler - far more powerful than Zahir Shah was as King..... in pursuit of power. That jerk did not even really care about Pakhunistan - it was stunt to attract power to himself.

Anyhow - do you know that guy whom Mr Madani interviewed ?



Logged
Gul agha
Ahura Mazda
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 479



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2009, 12:55:15 AM »

 I watched Madani's program a few days ago. The scholar in that interview is Asef Ahang. He was a constitutionalist with Ghobar and a historian. He was the first scholar in Afghanistan to stand against Naim Khan's policy to eliminate the word "Iran" from our history. He was also the first historian to criticize Kohzad's history even though he related to him. He is hated by some Hazaras because of his pro Tajik stance during the wars by supporting Masood and Mohseni. one of his famous articles during the Civil war of the 90s was on Hussain Khan Panjshiri (Panjshiri from paternal side and Kabuli-Chendawoli from maternal side) who united Panjshiri and Qizilbash forces against Abdur Rahman Khan.


Dear Gul Agha,

I do not know if you managed to catch a recent program on Noor TV of USA - in which Mr Madani interviewed a very leaned man and scholar from Chindawol - whom talked about the real face Daud Khan - and his plans to slaughter all Qizilbash using his Hazara allies. Hazara have always united with those forces whom were against the Kabulian - all through history.

Against Habibulah Kalakani, when Qizilbash were instrumental in the fall of Kabul  - in the fight against Massoud in which Massoud had many Qizilbash allies - in the fight against those whom wanted to remove the fascist Daud.

Has anyone her thought - what may have happened - had the powr hungry dog Daud not launched a coup de ta against the Parliamentary System - with a nominal head of state - Zahir Shah?  The real power was given to the prime minster - Musa Shafiq whom did many great things - one being the move to solve the water crisis with Iran and to drop the stupid Pukhtunistan issue with Pakistan - but Daud Khan ruined it all. He took over - under pretence of creating a republic - he made himself absolute ruler - far more powerful than Zahir Shah was as King..... in pursuit of power. That jerk did not even really care about Pakhunistan - it was stunt to attract power to himself.

Anyhow - do you know that guy whom Mr Madani interviewed ?




« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 12:57:30 AM by Gul agha » Logged

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
به نام خداوند جان و خرد, کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2009, 06:24:48 PM »

Thanks for the name. I would be glad if you could point to some of his articles and books - it would be great to have more of his interviews.

Husain Khan Panjshir uniting Qizil Bash and Panjshiris against Abdur Rahman Khan ?  I do not know of this.... are you sure you do not mean against Amanulah Khan ?  If it was against Abdur Rahman Khan - what did the Panjshiris and Qizilbash have in common against Abdur Rahman Khan ? 
Logged
Gul agha
Ahura Mazda
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 479



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2009, 12:23:09 AM »

Thanks for the name. I would be glad if you could point to some of his articles and books - it would be great to have more of his interviews.

Husain Khan Panjshir uniting Qizil Bash and Panjshiris against Abdur Rahman Khan ?  I do not know of this.... are you sure you do not mean against Amanulah Khan ?  If it was against Abdur Rahman Khan - what did the Panjshiris and Qizilbash have in common against Abdur Rahman Khan ? 

They supported Sher Ali Khan.
Logged

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
به نام خداوند جان و خرد, کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2009, 08:36:45 AM »

Thanks for the name. I would be glad if you could point to some of his articles and books - it would be great to have more of his interviews.

Husain Khan Panjshir uniting Qizil Bash and Panjshiris against Abdur Rahman Khan ?  I do not know of this.... are you sure you do not mean against Amanulah Khan ?  If it was against Abdur Rahman Khan - what did the Panjshiris and Qizilbash have in common against Abdur Rahman Khan ? 

They supported Sher Ali Khan.


Ok. Tell us more - what was background - and what happened eventually after Amir Abdur Rahman was made Amir in Charikar ?
Logged
Unity
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +518/-0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1870


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 01:16:47 AM »

Abdul Rahman Khan was good, he did bad things and also alot of good things including having a strong gov and security in the country.  I admire him for his work.
Logged
Gul agha
Ahura Mazda
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 479



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 11:49:52 PM »

Thanks for the name. I would be glad if you could point to some of his articles and books - it would be great to have more of his interviews.

Husain Khan Panjshir uniting Qizil Bash and Panjshiris against Abdur Rahman Khan ?  I do not know of this.... are you sure you do not mean against Amanulah Khan ?  If it was against Abdur Rahman Khan - what did the Panjshiris and Qizilbash have in common against Abdur Rahman Khan ? 

They supported Sher Ali Khan.


Ok. Tell us more - what was background - and what happened eventually after Amir Abdur Rahman was made Amir in Charikar ?

Hussain Khan Panjshiri and his family with a couple thousand other Kabulis fled to Kashmir when Abdur Rahman Khan captured Kabul from Sher Ali Khan.

Abdur Rahman Khan did liberate some Tajiks in northern Afghanistan but at the same time he killed thousands of Tajiks in kabul and in the south. During his rule 60% of the Tajik Shias who lived in Kabul fled to India because of his opression on them.
Logged

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
به نام خداوند جان و خرد, کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
Lindt
.
Full Member
***

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 218



View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 05:50:45 AM »

Hussain Khan Panjshiri and his family with a couple thousand other Kabulis fled to Kashmir when Abdur Rahman Khan captured Kabul from Sher Ali Khan.

Abdur Rahman Khan did liberate some Tajiks in northern Afghanistan but at the same time he killed thousands of Tajiks in kabul and in the south. During his rule 60% of the Tajik Shias who lived in Kabul fled to India because of his opression on them.


dude can you back up this claim with academic sources?
Logged
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 09:55:35 AM »

Thanks for the name. I would be glad if you could point to some of his articles and books - it would be great to have more of his interviews.

Husain Khan Panjshir uniting Qizil Bash and Panjshiris against Abdur Rahman Khan ?  I do not know of this.... are you sure you do not mean against Amanulah Khan ?  If it was against Abdur Rahman Khan - what did the Panjshiris and Qizilbash have in common against Abdur Rahman Khan ? 

They supported Sher Ali Khan.


Ok. Tell us more - what was background - and what happened eventually after Amir Abdur Rahman was made Amir in Charikar ?

Hussain Khan Panjshiri and his family with a couple thousand other Kabulis fled to Kashmir when Abdur Rahman Khan captured Kabul from Sher Ali Khan.

Abdur Rahman Khan did liberate some Tajiks in northern Afghanistan but at the same time he killed thousands of Tajiks in kabul and in the south. During his rule 60% of the Tajik Shias who lived in Kabul fled to India because of his opression on them.

Why were they against Abdur Rahman Khan - and so many other Tajiks were not  ?

Do you not agree that smashing Ghilzai and Hazara and Uzbek Khans was a good thing ?  And recognizing the eastern border ?  Persian was the only official language - which was very effective in bringing unity to the whole land.

Qizilbash - despite being Shia - have historically been very influential and close in the circles of power....  that 60% figure - it is a figure which Hazara nationalist also use for their supposed loss of fellow Hazaras to Abdur Rahman Khan - a big exaggeration.  But - if as you say - those Qizilbash had allied themselves with a rival of Amir  Abdur Rahman Khan - then of course they would have paid for it...but not such a high price of 60% - for the Qizlbash remained influential still after Abdur Rahman - think about the role they had in the removal of Amanulah.

What I am sick of is the constant bad mouthing of Amir Abdur Rahman Khan - he achieved more than anyone for the smashing anti Tajik elements. It was the murtad Amanulah Khan whom started worshiping tribalism and through his mentor Tarzi  - rabid secular Pashtunism - and continued through Nadir Shah with his brothers.

I would appreciate some additional background material on those events.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 09:57:42 AM by Ahhangar » Logged
Gul agha
Ahura Mazda
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 479



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 03:22:55 AM »

Most Tajiks in Kabul and the south were against Abdur Rahman Khan. Abdur Rahman Khan was a brutal dictator who killed Tajiks Hazaras Pashtuns and Uzbeks and he will never serve as an icon for Tajiks. I am not standing against him because he killed my ancestors but he created this illigitemate concept of "Afghanistan". his unity existed during Nader Khan's reign also and it wasn't because the masses were accepting the government but people were being oppressed and the rulers were tyrants.

Majority of the Qizilbash fled Kabul and they settled in either modern-day Kashmir or Pakistan. it is said that atleast 500,000 Qizilbash families fled. Pakistan's former president Yahya Khan was a Qizilbash from Kabul. not only did Shia Tajiks flee but Sunni Tajiks from Kabul also fled because of Abdur Rahman's brutality.

The only positive thing Abdur Rahman did for us is that he crushed the Uzbek warlords in Kunduz, Badakhshan, and Balkh.
Logged

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
به نام خداوند جان و خرد, کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
Khurasanzad
Research Team
Sr. Member
*

Karma: +11/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 439


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 07:32:08 AM »

Can someone ban   Lindt who hide her/his ethnicity under the noble term ''Tajik''? Jews and Arabs have nothing to do here!!! It´s an Aryan forum..
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 01:10:41 PM by Gul agha » Logged
Ahhangar
Ahhangar
Research Team
Hero Member
*

Karma: +24/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 655



View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2009, 06:28:52 PM »

Most Tajiks in Kabul and the south were against Abdur Rahman Khan. Abdur Rahman Khan was a brutal dictator who killed Tajiks Hazaras Pashtuns and Uzbeks and he will never serve as an icon for Tajiks. I am not standing against him because he killed my ancestors but he created this illigitemate concept of "Afghanistan". his unity existed during Nader Khan's reign also and it wasn't because the masses were accepting the government but people were being oppressed and the rulers were tyrants.

Majority of the Qizilbash fled Kabul and they settled in either modern-day Kashmir or Pakistan. it is said that atleast 500,000 Qizilbash families fled. Pakistan's former president Yahya Khan was a Qizilbash from Kabul. not only did Shia Tajiks flee but Sunni Tajiks from Kabul also fled because of Abdur Rahman's brutality.

The only positive thing Abdur Rahman did for us is that he crushed the Uzbek warlords in Kunduz, Badakhshan, and Balkh.

500'000 families ?  Are you sure ?  That would make Kabul an overpopulated Qizil Bash city.  And that represents 60% ?  Yahya Khan is known as a Pashtun general amongst Pakistanis.

I understand that for an ardent Shia Qizilbash  -  AMirAbdurRahman Khan   and his  massacre   of   fellow Shia Hazaras is a sour point -  he was ardently against Shias in order to smash Hazaras..... but  if cannot be an icon for Qizilbash  -  he also cannot be an icon for Pashtuns or Pashtunism.  Qizilbash -  as a political force -  do not represent Tajiks or Khurasan -- they have seen themselves as a people apart. Only recently this talk of 'Tajikam' has started -and most is insincere. Why do you condone his smashing of Uzbeks but not of Hazaras ?

He was made Amir by Tajiks -  and  smashed many Tajik enemies with largely Tajik Sunni armies - especially in the north - capturing Herat from Ayub Khan and Kandahar eventually ----- smashing all the tribal  invader elements - Ghilzai Uzbek Hazara and according to you, the Qizilbash aswell - even though most of his ancestors had Qizilbash blood.  Qizilbash - as a political entity coming to end is not the same as ethnic cleansing of Qizilbash - and arguably a good thing.  All accepted - Shia included- the Sunni identity of that land.

What Hazara and Uzbek nationalists cry for is their freedom to reign over those territories which they came as invaders - and constantly badmouth Amir Abdur Rahman Khan - and call it Pashtunism - when it was far from that - and they are aided in that revisionist view of history by Pashtunists whom gladly would appropriate anything to represent Pashtunism - even nominal Pashtuns like Amir Abdur Rahman and would even shamelessly extend their supposed Pashtun domination theory all the way to fictional Amir Kror....... both groups are misrepresenting history and both are enemies of Khurasan.

Hazaras were glad allies of fascist Amanulah - whom started the idea of Pashtunism to be the meaning of AFGHANistan - the foul concept of AFGHANistan - to mean land of Afghans - ie Pashtuns.


Current Iran backed Wahdati Wahshis and Dostum to try to take Balkh - but were prevented by Ustad Atta - and if they are giving some money to him ( whilst giving hundreds of millions to fascist gang around Karzai)  - along side the vast amounts he makes from the border trade - do not mean that suddenly Iran is a friend of Tajiks. They have only slightly let up on their Hazara card after realizing how futile is was to attempt to spread militant Shiaism to its east - but to its west - in Iraq - it has been devastating that land. In Iraqi Kurdistan - they nominally back secularists - but those secular  Kurds are minor when practically the whole government is run by Shia people they backed.

In Herat - working with Afghan Mellatis - Iran is working against Sunni Persians - Karzi is given millions by Iran - until very recently a Hazara Shia was governor - at the behest of IRAN  !   They have been giving land to Hazaras and turning it into a client province of their own.... with western backing. But they will pay for it - as will their running dog Hazara clients and other Akhundophiles - the real people of Herat will massacre them. 

The recent killings in Farah were of Tajiks - Sunni Persians - with Afghan interior ministry involvement - part of the same anti SunniPersian movement.

The name of Iran is a sheep skin over a wolf militant rabid Shiasm - representing a continuation of Turkic Safawid power.


« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 07:57:32 PM by Ahhangar » Logged
Khurasanzad
Research Team
Sr. Member
*

Karma: +11/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 439


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2009, 02:59:34 AM »

500 000 Qezibash families lived in the whole country but not in Kabul. In Kabul there were some 50-60 000 families. An interesting fact is that also Abdali Pashtuns are counted to the Qezilbashs and they have a very large Shia population but wahabits and salafits deny that.
Logged
Lindt
.
Full Member
***

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 218



View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2009, 03:20:14 AM »

Can someone ban   Lindt who hide her/his ethnicity under the noble term ''Tajik''? Jews and Arabs have nothing to do here!!! It´s an Aryan forum..


You are the biggest baby, ever. You turn every single thread into some political debate and then conclude with how I am some sort of criminal. All I asked was for Gul Agha to provide some ACADEMIC SOURCES for his wild claim and here you come asking Admin to ban me. Get a life, loser.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP bluBlur Skin 2006, hbSkins
Powered by SMF 2.0 RC1 | SMF © 2006–2009, Simple Machines LLC
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!