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Author Topic: My Respectful Critique of the Khorasanni Movement  (Read 31530 times)
Dushanbe
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2009, 11:46:07 AM »

One thing which is very clear is that in politics you can find only interests (personal or national, etc). There are no philanthropic countries in this world and it is very clear that “No good returns = no investment.” Those who cooperate with us, they pursue their own interests and we need to understand the price of friendship and having an ally country.
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To Be Born Free - is Luck. To Live Free - is a Privilege. To Die Free – is a Responsibility.
Amir al Ghaznavi
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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2009, 03:38:30 PM »

Gul Agha, thank you for your esteemed response. I am at work and so I cannot reply to your post in the manner it deserves.

However I would like to agree with my wror Ahangar here, that your notion of a independent secular Khorassan is not practical. On paper it sounds great, but so does the notion of a detribalized Pakhtun state from Kabul to Pekhawer, but we all know thats never going to happen.

Some quick concerns:

1. I dont think the turkman/uzbek population is willing to allow themselves to be subjected to the rule of tajiks. Again, i base this on the fact that all current cooperation is contextualized by an anti pashtunism/anti afghan state. but once this is removed, differences will appear

2. do not confuse iranian support with brotherly love. Look at herat, where iran is undercutting the development of local industry under the guise of "aid". Iran will NEVER accept a pan Iranic/Persian state as an ally or peer, only as a subjagated state.

Although as a non Persian my opinion may not be as valid, I truly believe that while there are legitimate cultural and linguistic links, there is a difference between the WEST iranic and EAST iranic people, going back to history and even genetics, as the eastern iranians/afghans/tajiks are not the same as western iranian with medes/semetic/babylonian influences.

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Amir al Ghaznavi
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2009, 03:40:41 PM »

Good Job admin deleting my post. Possibly I insulted his dirty filthy watanfrosh and immigrant gypsie nation and himself but at the same time I also showed these *** thousands of facts and very good based answers to every phrase he had written with his tail you have deleted with. I spent 2.5 hours to write it and what are you doing? You idiot have not any respect to the real voice of your own nation, of your own brother. You are a sell-out slave of these tailed beghairat Jews (Pashtuns). Tomorrow, you will also sell your mother to the British and to the Russians and to the Arabs but be sure, neither me nor my children will rescue you or anyone of your relatives from Washigari (Pashtunwali). You are just another fascists (manipulated by Pashtunists who use you as their puppet) who want to kill the truth. Death to every Pashtun and every Pashtun fascist, death to every B*** Oughoo gypsie who immigrated to our lands and our cities and our country. Death to every single barbarian Arab slave. At least you could let the desciption and well facts why Pashtuns are not Muslims and why they need to get wiped out in an islamic country, these bl** b**who have not the knowledge of Islam and have no resprect to Quran...but since you are self fallen in love with talibanism and wahabism you will try everything. But ok, your the Boss

people like you are pathetic and only because you are crying over the 3 hours of your life you lost, but because you are engaged in negativity and know nothing but insults. no pragmatism, no politics no nothing. with your attitude nothing will be accomplished.

and you are a coward because anybody can insult people witin the anonymity of the internet. i am from toronto, ontario canada and if you or any of your like minded colleagues would like to repeat your insults in person youre more than willing to do so

in fact i have many friends from around the world. if you have any decency you will tell me where you live and i can arrange for a meeting
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Gul agha
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2009, 04:04:46 PM »

Dear Amir al Ghaznavi,

Tajikam believes in freedom of speech and anyone from any background can participate in this forum.

Afghanistan is a failed concept and there is no way in bringing this dead concept alive again. not always does Unity help a region become stable but disintegration has been proven in numerous regions to bring peace and stability. our people are frustrated with Pashtuns and the ground reality is that non-Pashtuns cannot get along with Pashtuns. This does not mean we hate Pashtuns but it means we cannot co-exist with them peacefully. Partition or disintegration is an alternative we cannot run away from because Afghanistan is running out of other alternatives.

separating the south and the north will bring us closer and who knows maybe in a century we will unite again but unity right now is impossible. not every Pashtun is like you, most Pashtuns would right now label you as a Tajik wannabe for saying these things and we cannot change our attitude and agenda because of a small minority within the Pashtun masses who are speaking out against Pan Pashtunism.

Khorasan is not a fantasy. Afghanistan is already separated into two defacto states (the stable north and the radical south). Pakistan is also heading towards disintegration and Ahmad Rashid was predicted that itmight happen very soon maybe in a few years. Once a Pashtunistan is created out of NWFP the southern regions of Afghanistan that are controlled by the Taliban will join this Pashtunistan and this will cause Khorasan's independence.

most non-Pashtuns are Persian-speakers and they belong to the Persian civilization. What matters it that the majority in Khorasan will be Persians,Tajiks(including Aimaqs) and Hazaras, and differences between these two ethnicities is very little. the Turks, Nuristanis, Pashayis do not have the capabilities to stand against the Tajiks or the Persian-speakers in an independent Khorasan they will have no choise but to accept this country and in return they will be given rights. Uzbeks are unable to unite with Uzbekistan because Jowsjan and Faryab share a border with Turkmenistan not Uzbekistan.

Tajikistanis have not lost anything. Their script is taught in schools and now it is mandatory to study the Persian script from 2nd grade-11th grade. Tajikistanis are proud of their culture and heritage and the center for Persian nationalism right now is Tajikistan.

Iranians are our brothers and we will have close relations with them. There is no reason for them to be against us lol. If Iran was against another Persian state they would have been hostile towards Tajikistan but the truth is that Iran is pouring money in Tajikistan and is helping Tajikistan's economy and social issues.

Iran is a shia state but this does not mean they are against Sunnis. There are more Persian sunnis in Iran than Baluchi Sunnis and the Persian Sunnis in Iran are free and they are happy about the government. Religion is not the only facor that is thought of in Iran's policy making. There are as much Nationalists in Iran's current government as Akhonds and most of the cadres are pro Persian and even the president of Iran and some of his ministers were  former Pan-Iranists. Iraqi-Kurdistan is a sunni region but Iran is helping them become autonomous and independent. A secular republic of Khorasan (Sunnite and Shiite ideologies will be nonexistent in the government) will serve as a bridge for Iran to connect itself with China. anyone that disagrees with me and thinks the current administration in Iran is more sympathetic towards Shias instead of Persians then this only shows they lack info. Mazar e Sharif, a Tajik sunni city, is flourishing because of Iranian investors and millions have been given to Balkh's government to start cultural programs in Balkh and to revive the true identity of Balkh which is Persian. just a month ago the Iranian government built a monument for ferdowsi in a busy intersection and they named it " Maidan e Ferdowsi" in Mazar city and a few blocks eastward they built a big library and they named it "Ketab khaneh Ferdowsi". Iran has also donated thousands of books for Persian cities across Afghanistan. for Iran right now Persian is much more important than Shia and anyone who propagates that Iran's policy towards Tajiks is a negative one then they might still think Rafsanjaani Hazara-turkmen is in power.



Current Iran backed Wahdati Wahshis and Dostum to try to take Balkh - but were prevented by Ustad Atta - and if they are giving some money to him ( whilst giving hundreds of millions to fascist gang around Karzai)  - along side the vast amounts he makes from the border trade - do not mean that suddenly Iran is a friend of Tajiks. They have only slightly let up on their Hazara card after realizing how futile is was to attempt to spread militant Shiaism to its east - but to its west - in Iraq - it has been devastating that land. In Iraqi Kurdistan - they nominally back secularists - but those secular  Kurds are minor when practically the whole government is run by Shia people they backed.

In Herat - working with Afghan Mellatis - Iran is working against Sunni Persians - Karzi is given millions by Iran - until very recently a Hazara Shia was governor - at the behest of IRAN  !   They have been giving land to Hazaras and turning it into a client province of their own.... with western backing. But they will pay for it - as will their running dog Hazara clients and other Akhundophiles - the real people of Herat will massacre them.

The recent killings in Farah were of Tajiks - Sunni Persians - with Afghan interior ministry involvement - part of the same anti SunniPersian movement.

The name of Iran is a sheep skin over a wolf militant rabid Shiasm - representing a continuation of Turkic Safawid power.

Ahhangar

Hezb Wahdat and Junbesh are cripled movements and they lack support from the neighboring countries today. One of the main reasons why Dostum fled Kabul was because he was broke and Karzai promised him that if he leaves Afghanistan he will support him financially. Hezb Wahdat is also like this and they are being used by the Pashtuns today. Iran has given up its ambitions to build up the Hazaras in Afghanistan because this has failed and even though I oppose them they are wise enough to realize this.

Iraq is predominantly Shia and Iran fears another Sunni regime in Iraq just how it fears another Talib regime in Afghanistan.

Ustad Atta's only allies in the region is Iran and weak Tajikistan. Iran has never supported Dostum against Atta because Dostum serves Uzbekistan's interests in the region and today Iran is pouring millions in Balkh even though Atta is removing Uzbeks and Hazaras from the province.

the main opponents of Afghan Mellatis in Herat are the Shia Tajiks of Herat. a few months ago they even torched Afghan Mellat's office. Most of the people be it sunni or shia have co-existed peacefully in Herat for centuries and they still do and all of these sunni vs shia propaganda are false and are only being spread by Afghan Mellatis. The previous governor of Herat was not a Hazara, I have told you this once before also. Hussain Anwari is a Tajik from Ghazni who fought against Hazaras and he was always allied with Jamiat and Shuray Nezar. He is still a close friend of Ismail Khan.

I can't mention any names but a lot of the Sunni Tajik candidates right now are being financed by Iran and their groups and parties also have good relations with the Iranian government. If Iran was against every single Sunni then there would have been no Sunnis in Iran today and these Sunni Tajik groups would be against the so called turkic shia anti sunni regime of Iran.
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Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2009, 04:12:25 PM »

CURRENT IRAN =  EMPIRE OF QOM and sworn enemy of TAJIKS. They are trash enemies whom work with and are the active enemies of Tajiks.  The empire of QOM represents a certain kind of Shiaism - dominated by a certain group - an enemy of Tajik Shias as well as other Tajiks.

The fact that they may want to link up to China is no proof of some special affinity to Tajiks - it is what any country would do if they were located where the current Iran is. It is not something significant in terms of a special relationship between Iran and Tajiks.
 
Their is no brotherhood amongst between Iran and Tajiks. Those whom think - there is - are either naive  and end up being disappointed - or have assume they have commonality die a shared Shia faith - but even that is naive - as is shown by the record.

Gul Agha - stop your propaganda that Tajiks in Iran were not discriminated against - an that it was only Afghans/Pashtuns ! lol That is so hollow and untrue - and it reveals your real ideas too much. 

we cannot have everyone against us. How can we succeed if we have everyone against us: The Hazaras, Pashtuns, the Turks and then every single neighboring country except Tajikistan. Even though Iran is controlled by Akhonds and a theocratic government exists there, nationalist elements do exist in the government. Not everyone in the Iranian system are pro theocracy but there are millions of reformists in Iran who are trying to change the regime and the only powerful ally that we Tajiks have right now is Iran and if we turn against them then we have no one else besides us.

If Iran's only ambition in the region was to help the Shias then why is Iran helping Tajikistan? Is there any Ithna Ashari Shias in Tajikistan?


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Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2009, 04:22:01 PM »

Gul Agha, thank you for your esteemed response. I am at work and so I cannot reply to your post in the manner it deserves.

However I would like to agree with my wror Ahangar here, that your notion of a independent secular Khorassan is not practical. On paper it sounds great, but so does the notion of a detribalized Pakhtun state from Kabul to Pekhawer, but we all know thats never going to happen.

Some quick concerns:

1. I dont think the turkman/uzbek population is willing to allow themselves to be subjected to the rule of tajiks. Again, i base this on the fact that all current cooperation is contextualized by an anti pashtunism/anti afghan state. but once this is removed, differences will appear

2. do not confuse iranian support with brotherly love. Look at herat, where iran is undercutting the development of local industry under the guise of "aid". Iran will NEVER accept a pan Iranic/Persian state as an ally or peer, only as a subjagated state.

Although as a non Persian my opinion may not be as valid, I truly believe that while there are legitimate cultural and linguistic links, there is a difference between the WEST iranic and EAST iranic people, going back to history and even genetics, as the eastern iranians/afghans/tajiks are not the same as western iranian with medes/semetic/babylonian influences.



You might think an independent Khorasan is not practical but it is more practical than a united, successful Afghanistan. Countries like Afghanistan will never succeed we have seen this throughout history. Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It. Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia were also like Afghanistan. at the end both states realized that the only logical solution is to disintegrate the country and today most of their problems have been solved in the Balkan region and Eastern Europe.

1. Turkmens and Uzbeks are verk weak like all other small minorities in Afghanistan and they will have a hard time to oppose an independent Khorasan because they have no other choice.

2. Iran is currently transitioning to a more liberal type of government. most of the reformists in Iran are nationalists and they rather help their Iranic brothers in Khorasan and Tajikistan than some arab parties in Israel.

There are more differences between Tajiks and Pashtuns and claiming that we have differences with Iranians is not true. we share a common history culture and language with most Iranians and there is no reason for them to destroy us lol when it isn't for their best interests.
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Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2009, 04:33:29 PM »

i do not believe it is accurate to point at iranian tajik cooperation and then suggest that this is proof of irans good intentions. this is simple politics.

do you really believe such mutual cooperation will continue when tajiks are no longer a minority within a country to be supported to maintain a foot hold and they become a separate country?

i guess we agree to disagree then wror


ps: you do know that genetically pashtuns and tajiks are more related than tajiks and iranians (west iranians) right? :p
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Gul agha
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2009, 07:07:02 PM »

i do not believe it is accurate to point at iranian tajik cooperation and then suggest that this is proof of irans good intentions. this is simple politics.

do you really believe such mutual cooperation will continue when tajiks are no longer a minority within a country to be supported to maintain a foot hold and they become a separate country?

i guess we agree to disagree then wror


ps: you do know that genetically pashtuns and tajiks are more related than tajiks and iranians (west iranians) right? :p

Iran's would benifit greatly from a stable eastern persian neighbor and there is no reason for them to oppose such a nation-state.

not every Pashtun is an Indo-Iranian. only Durranis are related to Tajiks but Tajiks are still much more closer to western Persians than Durranis.
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Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad
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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2009, 07:24:22 AM »

first of all i would like to introduce myself, i am an afghan, whom i am sure you all know what afghan means, it simply means pashtun, yes even now adays in afghanistan, the word "afghani" is used for pashtu i.e. if some one asking you that can you speak afghani, then you should get it that he/she means pashtu language... anyhow i thinks my introduction is enough

l olzafter goin through this topic's coment, i find it really funny ghaznavi wror that you are wasting your qematee wakht with these people, they have already made up their mind hating pashtun, killing pashtun etc...and i know no body can change their mind of way or how they think.. Only Allah subhanawatalah can help them, so what me and you should do is pray for these people that may Allah subhana watalah guide them the right path... amin suma amin

these people are lucky in one sense that we pashtuns practices islam more and are muslims unlike some people who claims to be muslim but dn't practice islam, i mean personally me i can't hate no other muslim brother because in islam there is no hatred...

anyhow ghaznavi brother if you really want to do something, then do something for your people i.e. making every single pashtun awake on how much we are being hated, what are the so call brother of us tajiks are saying behind our backs

i wish all the best to this group members specially to them pashtun haters, i will be more then happy if you carry on hating pashtun because this can help us pashtuns to wake up and stand on our language and realise the backstabbers.

so brother please if i were you, i wouldn't waste my time here debating aything related even 1% to afghanistan because its just useless and a waste of ur kematee time...

Allah mo mal sha

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ProudAfghan
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2009, 07:32:01 AM »

and i would like to wish them people who are dreaming of taking over pashtuns or kiling pashtuns, lols i would just like to say one sentence that

"72 countries admits defeat in the hands of few hundred pashtun talibans",

the percentage of pashtuns fighting alongside taliban is not even 5% of the overall pashtuns, i would wish for a fight between pashtuns n tajiks/iranians/uzbaks etc again to see who will win...

again if the 5% pashtun of the 100% can defeat the 72 develped countries then what is this iran, these other tajiks for us?
wish you all the best and pray that pashtuns dont get fed up with your attitudes otherwise you knw where your place will be

deer manana

i have said it again, please make our pashtun brothers life easy by doing whatever you are doing

thanks alot
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« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2009, 07:52:22 AM »

first of all i would like to introduce myself, i am an afghan, whom i am sure you all know what afghan means, it simply means pashtun, yes even now adays in afghanistan, the word "afghani" is used for pashtu i.e. if some one asking you that can you speak afghani, then you should get it that he/she means pashtu language... anyhow i thinks my introduction is enough

l olzafter goin through this topic's coment, i find it really funny ghaznavi wror that you are wasting your qematee wakht with these people, they have already made up their mind hating pashtun, killing pashtun etc...and i know no body can change their mind of way or how they think.. Only Allah subhanawatalah can help them, so what me and you should do is pray for these people that may Allah subhana watalah guide them the right path... amin suma amin

these people are lucky in one sense that we pashtuns practices islam more and are muslims unlike some people who claims to be muslim but dn't practice islam, i mean personally me i can't hate no other muslim brother because in islam there is no hatred...

anyhow ghaznavi brother if you really want to do something, then do something for your people i.e. making every single pashtun awake on how much we are being hated, what are the so call brother of us tajiks are saying behind our backs

i wish all the best to this group members specially to them pashtun haters, i will be more then happy if you carry on hating pashtun because this can help us pashtuns to wake up and stand on our language and realise the backstabbers.

so brother please if i were you, i wouldn't waste my time here debating aything related even 1% to afghanistan because its just useless and a waste of ur kematee time...

Allah mo mal sha



Welcome ProudAfghan

If you have yet to realise, an Afghan also means a citizen of Afghanistan,  therefore technically non-Pashtuns in Afghanistan are Afghans, whether they wish to call themselves that or not or whether Pashtuns want to accept reality or not.

I want to say that I was rather offended by your whole "we're better Muslims" comment - I'd be glad to see some statistics. It's amazing how one easily thinks that just because they perceive themselves as being better practitioners of Islam, that they are immediately more superior. let God be the judge...

Allow me to also add that hate is what has created superficial divisions and the day that people realise themselves as being human beings rather than entities to particular racial or ethnic groups is where the world will be a better place. and seeing as you are a pious Muslim, nationalism and pride is wrong and against the ideologies of Islam. (let this be something to all who think their ethnic group - something you have no control over - is better than anothers)  >:(

You say that there is a lot of hate - yes, i agree - 100%. But i can say that same about Pashtun forums who preach hate and come across as having superiority complexes for reasons beyond my understanding. many Afghans do not have a good understanding of their own history and merely listen to what their uneducated forefathers passed on to following generations.

and lol... you think pashto is under attack? it may be the national language of afghanistan but it certainly never was and is not the lingua franca. people on this site are more concerned about developing their language and culture rather than destroying another (or so they should be) ...relax, no one is trying to destroy it. you are right, pashtuns defended afghanistan hence why they claim it... but you shouldn't have a big head because of it. :)
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« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2009, 07:56:50 AM »

good point.
I noticed that too in Afghanistan - there was nothing but love between its people. sadly, in the west, facsists have been lurking around the internet in particularly, posting vicious lies that create more hatred and division between all people in afghanistan as well as it's diasporic population.


hahaha at Punjabis. I think that title is reserved for Indian-loving Kabulis
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ProudAfghan
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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2009, 08:31:46 AM »

thank u landit, i wasn't expecting any one to welcome me and i dn't want to come in to you people own stuff like planing ;) ahaha

anyhow

yh i knew no would read the whole text i wrote because it was obviously long, yeah i know i wrote that and i did apologised in the last comment...

by saying that pashtun's faith are stronger then tajkis is true, i know tobah na ghozo belah i m not the creater, in kabul the mosques where the area is of tajik majority then the mosque wil be empty but if you go to pashtun areas then the mosque will be full, i have noticed this...

and plus i have seen some of you insulting at arabs, don't forget that all them prophets were arabs and the holly book Quran is also written in arabic,

anyhow i know i didnt feel right saying that pashtuns faith in islam was stronger then tajiks but wrote it, those taibans that fights now are brainwashed in to one thing that the non muslim countries have invaded their country, and to spread christianity etc, thats why those talibans are fighting and often does suicide targeting foreigners
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 08:48:32 AM by ProudAfghan » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2009, 08:35:59 AM »

oh my days one must watch the afghan private tv's, its full of them hindu dramas... very very not afghan or persian because in the dramas they have this thick circle red thing on their forehead and the sari's they wear astagfirulah

i have seen many of our afghans copying their dressin, in west afghans women are used to now wearing sari's

long live khurram, he was the guy who could ban it but the parliament didn't allow him i think
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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2009, 10:25:57 AM »

ProudAfghan,

First, welcome to the forum! We hope your stay will be interesting as well as meaningful.

Second, to assume that nobody reads your post, be it long or short, just because your are Pashtu or non-Tajik, is inaccurate. We read every single post, but we also tend to ignore posts that are full of hatred and has vulgar language - no matter by whom (Tajik or non-Tajik). So, next time keep in mind that we all read honest posts with the usage of proper language in it.

Third, forum is for discussions and debates and to say that we, Tajik, have already made our mind, is a bid odd. We are open to all respectful debates about anything, particularly with references to and usage of scholastic sources. If you are capable of presenting your thoughts and ideas in a provable way, then why not to change the mind. After all, everything changes in the universe except the law of change itself.

Fourth, I agree with Lindt that every forum (especially multi-ethnic) has some elements of hatred. So, to say that Tajikam.com is full of hatred is incorrect. What do you think about those "other" forums then? Do you think that's fair? We should concentrate on respecting each other and leave bashings and hatred when expressing our thoughts and views. Then we, as a humanity, can achieve something.

Last but not least. You refer to Islam and being a good Muslim as the core of an individual. I respectfully disagree with you on that. A person can get good morals from education including some of the good precepts from religion, and does not have any religion or believes in supernatural being. After all, the meaning of this life is to be a good person, and one can, there are a lot, become a good human being without any belief in God. Are you going to degrade and discriminate all these people? What's wrong if one doesn't believes in what you believe. Absolutely nothing. Everybody has different views and beliefs, and to assert that your's is the true is odd. You have to understand that (especially if you have been outside Afghanistan) people can live in harmony believing in God and not believing in God as well, and you have to respect everybody's opinion no matter to what extent it's different from yours.

Regards,



- Pors.
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