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India-Worship in Persian-Speaking Lands Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 04:12 AM

Hello everyone,

I borrowed this term from a Chinese friend who accused me of Japan-Worship because I praised a few things about Japan (that was long ago ...). So, I am not using the world literally, but perhaps a little provocatively.

I noticed that many Afghanistanis and some Tajikistanis have caught the India-Worship bug, and praise everything Indian left and right, rave about their music, movies, and the people, and consider them almost god-like (and I am not exaggerating - an Afghanistani friend in Canada expressed such feelings). It sounds a lot like how Japanese worship everything American, and view them as almost god-like mythical creatures. I am sure it has a lot to do with the image projected by Anglo-American rock stars, Hollywood movies, and of course imperial power and economic success.

Is Bollywood and Indian music and dance, with depiction of luxury unfound among 99.99% of Indians, repsonsible for projecting this image ?

Are Iranians as susceptible to India-Worship and acculturation as our Tajik and Afghani brethren ? Is there a lot of influence from modern Indian culture in today's Iran or during the Shah ? Tehran, Rooyintan: any comments ?

PORS jon, what is the status of indian culture in Tajikistan ? Is it as pervasive as in Afghanistan ? Is everyone full of admiration and adoration for Indian culture as Darius claims ?

Looking forward to your comments :D
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#2 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 05:14 PM

Indian movies are even today entering europe, specially UK, Germany, Turkey and some other states, and also central Asian ones, including Iran. The problem is the movies are unlike Americans aggressive movies much more cultural related and the Indian culture also reflect the Khurasanian Persian culture (Indo-Persian culture) http://en.wikipedia....ki/Indo-Persian and since Bollywood shows only the islamic traditions and culture of India, the ''Indo-Persian culture'', many central Asians people can also identify themself with them, also, today, most indian movies have lost some their values by showing always love-stories and sex and their actual aims, showing people their own faults, teaching in some kind people in a better behave, how they should be and shouldnt be, showing them the reality and different kind of people, in a way that catch everyone, than for lesser a decade. In Awghanistan, mostly Pashtuns reflect Punjabi style on their busses, donkeys with bling-bling stuffs and with whome Indian influence get stronger in eastern and southern part. It is enough to look to a Kuchi Pashtun and you will see they are punjabi-like but for 30 or 50 years they had nothing. Most thing that make people looking Bollywood is also their traditional clothes and Saris..which fool people everyone in India or Indians real ''culture'' is like in B. movies.
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#3 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 01:23 AM

Well, I could not stand any Bollywood movie that I was forced to watch for more than 30 minutes. It seems to be made for people in need of singing, dancing, and an escape with very little strain on their mind. I like escape too once in a while, and even often, but Bollywooed movies are so predictable, childish, and makes me feel like I am treated like a retarded person - that I just get bored and turn it off and do something else. What does this say about the people who watch these movies ? I am not saying Hollywood movies are all great ... and they have lots of violence which I don't like. Perhaps our people and even American are simply too dumb to appreciate anything but singing and dancing movies for children

[QUOTE=Parsistani;9377]Indian movies are even today entering europe, specially UK, Germany, Turkey and some other states, and also central Asian ones, including Iran. The problem is the movies are unlike Americans aggressive movies much more cultural related and the Indian culture also reflect the Khurasanian Persian culture (Indo-Persian culture) http://en.wikipedia....ki/Indo-Persian and since Bollywood shows only the islamic traditions and culture of India, the ''Indo-Persian culture'', many central Asians people can also identify themself with them, also, today, most indian movies have lost some their values by showing always love-stories and sex and their actual aims, showing people their own faults, teaching in some kind people in a better behave, how they should be and shouldnt be, showing them the reality and different kind of people, in a way that catch everyone, than for lesser a decade. In Awghanistan, mostly Pashtuns reflect Punjabi style on their busses, donkeys with bling-bling stuffs and with whome Indian influence get stronger in eastern and southern part. It is enough to look to a Kuchi Pashtun and you will see they are punjabi-like but for 30 or 50 years they had nothing. Most thing that make people looking Bollywood is also their traditional clothes and Saris..which fool people everyone in India or Indians real ''culture'' is like in B. movies.[/QUOTE]
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#4 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 02:45 AM

Is Iran is also polluted by Indian excrement - ie Bollywood and their repulsive music - Tehran and Rooyintan Jan ?
[QUOTE=Parsistani;9377]Indian movies are even today entering europe, specially UK, Germany, Turkey and some other states, and also central Asian ones, including Iran. [/QUOTE]
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#5 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 03:18 AM

Nader Shahe gerami,

I don't know why you are still trying to distort my view on the matter. I have told you what I think about it, but it seems I couldn't make it clear enough. Will try to explain it further later on.

Best

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;9336]Hello everyone,

I borrowed this term from a Chinese friend who accused me of Japan-Worship because I praised a few things about Japan (that was long ago ...). So, I am not using the world literally, but perhaps a little provocatively.

I noticed that many Afghanistanis and some Tajikistanis have caught the India-Worship bug, and praise everything Indian left and right, rave about their music, movies, and the people, and consider them almost god-like (and I am not exaggerating - an Afghanistani friend in Canada expressed such feelings). It sounds a lot like how Japanese worship everything American, and view them as almost god-like mythical creatures. I am sure it has a lot to do with the image projected by Anglo-American rock stars, Hollywood movies, and of course imperial power and economic success.

Is Bollywood and Indian music and dance, with depiction of luxury unfound among 99.99% of Indians, repsonsible for projecting this image ?

Are Iranians as susceptible to India-Worship and acculturation as our Tajik and Afghani brethren ? Is there a lot of influence from modern Indian culture in today's Iran or during the Shah ? Tehran, Rooyintan: any comments ?

PORS jon, what is the status of indian culture in Tajikistan ? Is it as pervasive as in Afghanistan ? Is everyone full of admiration and adoration for Indian culture as Darius claims ?

Looking forward to your comments :D [/QUOTE]
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#6 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 03:25 AM

Darius Jan, I only quoted you verbatim about the "admiration and adoration" comment you made. I am not distorting your views, and I admire you very much. You are a source of pride for all of us. And, I respect your open mindedness to other cultures, and appreciation of things outside of our culture. I myself try to learn from other cultures and listen to all types of music, and have my personal likings and preferences (related to French culture). There is no need to explain yourself or clarify, I know you are not a Bollywood fan ... I made some generic comments not necessarily targeted to a single person. All of us have great respect for you :)
[QUOTE=Darius;9407]Nader Shahe gerami,

I don't know why you are still trying to distort my view on the matter. I have told you what I think about it, but it seems I couldn't make it clear enough. Will try to explain it further later on.

Best[/QUOTE]
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#7 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 03:42 AM

Thank you for your kind words brother. It's absolutely healthy and natural to differ in views. And of course I am proud of Persian intellectuals like you too.

Let's put our tastes to the test:)

What do you think about this song and its performance?



[QUOTE=Nader Shah;9408]Darius Jan, I only quoted you verbatim about the "admiration and adoration" comment you made. I am not distorting your views, and I admire you very much. You are a source of pride for all of us. And, I respect your open mindedness to other cultures, and appreciation of things outside of our culture. I myself try to learn from other cultures and listen to all types of music, and have my personal likings and preferences (related to French culture). There is no need to explain yourself or clarify, I know you are not a Bollywood fan ... I made some generic comments not necessarily targeted to a single person. All of us have great respect for you :) [/QUOTE]
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Posted 23 May 2008 - 03:53 AM

Or this one which shows that the influence has never been one-way. The clip shows how Persianized some of Indian songs are. And a Persian person might understand its lyrics better than a modern Indian:


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#9 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 04:09 AM

Darius Jan, It is a fine video and it's acceptable music, but not something I can appreciate that much or feel excited about. It may be just a matter of personal taste and nothing more. As I mentioned, associations in memory and emotions play a big part when listening to music - there is little logic involved here. Although some types of music, for example from Bach, is so mathematical and structured, that it can be appreciated on all levels - and when combined with its impact on the emotional centres of the brain, it simply leaves you gasping for more. In general, given my biad, Western classical music can operate on your mind at many levels: emotional and logical (and sometimes even spiritual). As for the garden variety of music, I prefer Persian music, even pop music if it has that Persian flavor. For example, our dear friend PORS introduced me to some of the early songs of Siavash - the LA singer - and I would say 3-4 of them are really well done, so different from the usual crappy LA fare, and with a strong Persian flavor, long, lots of variations, original lyrics, and not so predictable. For example, these videos on youtube are quite nice musically:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yvPfrdYulmE

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Jec1bX00H4k

I prefer the high quality MP3 version as it really brings out the subtelties and quality in the music, unfortunately it is harder to appreciate on youtube. There are a couple of songs that are even better but I could not find them on youtube.
[QUOTE=Darius;9409]Thank you for your kind words brother. It's absolutely healthy and natural to differ in views. And of course I am proud of Persian intellectuals like you too.

Let's put our tastes to the test:)

What do you think about this song and its performance?

[/QUOTE]
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#10 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 04:23 AM

This is a slightly better quality version of dokhtar irooni:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mSQ9Rc-z6qs

And here is another song I just found which is lovely (Naaz Nakon):
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1-YZ00Ffzd8
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Posted 23 May 2008 - 04:30 AM

Nader Shah jaan,

There is no doubt that most of us prefer to listen to our own music and certainly, most of my leisure time is filled with beautiful oldies by Sattar, Googoosh, Ebi, Ahmad Zaher, Moqaddas etc and some of the contemporary performances from Tehran and Dushanbe.

What really amazes me in Indian music and its visual performance (the good ones) is the way they enable us to see the richness of their culture. In the clips I posted earlier one could see millennia of evolution in Indian art; pure Indian and Persian elements entwined in a beautiful way and delivered in fabulous colours coupled with gripping effect of stunning beauties like Aishwarya and other stars. Thats maybe the main reason of their regional advance.

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;9411]Darius Jan, It is a fine video and it's acceptable music, but not something I can appreciate that much or feel excited about. It may be just a matter of personal taste and nothing more. As I mentioned, associations in memory and emotions play a big part when listening to music - there is little logic involved here. Although some types of music, for example from Bach, is so mathematical and structured, that it can be appreciated on all levels - and when combined with its impact on the emotional centres of the brain, it simply leaves you gasping for more. In general, given my biad, Western classical music can operate on your mind at many levels: emotional and logical (and sometimes even spiritual). As for the garden variety of music, I prefer Persian music, even pop music if it has that Persian flavor. For example, our dear friend PORS introduced me to some of the early songs of Siavash - the LA singer - and I would say 3-4 of them are really well done, so different from the usual crappy LA fare, and with a strong Persian flavor, long, lots of variations, original lyrics, and not so predictable. For example, these videos on youtube are quite nice musically:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yvPfrdYulmE

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Jec1bX00H4k

I prefer the high quality MP3 version as it really brings out the subtelties and quality in the music, unfortunately it is harder to appreciate on youtube. There are a couple of songs that are even better but I could not find them on youtube.[/QUOTE]
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