Tajiks Worldwide Community: Good Pashtoons - Bad Pashtoons - Tajiks Worldwide Community

Jump to content

Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox

Parsistani Icon : (04 January 2016 - 10:02 PM) Someone here?
parwana Icon : (30 April 2014 - 05:21 PM) Posted Image
Parsistani Icon : (22 July 2013 - 04:02 AM) good morning :)
Gul agha Icon : (03 May 2013 - 04:29 PM) Sohrab, Tajikam doesn't only consist of a forum. We have two major sections in this website. One is in Persian which is updated frequently and the other is in Persian (Cyrillic). Additionally, the English page is still running and has a vast amount of information on Tajiks and Persians.
Gul agha Icon : (03 May 2013 - 04:27 PM) http://www.facebook.com/Tajikamsite
Sohrab Icon : (01 May 2013 - 06:31 AM) Tajikam on facebook?
SHA DOKHT Icon : (01 May 2013 - 12:12 AM) Like our page on Facebook: https://www.facebook...541604162529143
Sohrab Icon : (29 March 2013 - 08:31 AM) H again, I thought the site would be closed, but it's still running.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:17 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:16 AM) hellow
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 09:46 AM) hellow
Gabaro_glt Icon : (25 March 2013 - 10:48 AM) Asssssssssalam o Alaikum
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:22 AM) I would like to here something from a tajik brother/sister living in Tajikstan
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:20 AM) I have traced my ancestors migrated from Panj and Balkh ancient
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:19 AM) I am desendant of Sultan behram Gabari Tajik living in GilGit pakistan
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:17 AM) Salam to all brothers
Parsistani Icon : (01 June 2012 - 10:48 AM) we are on facebook. Tajikam on facebook
Parsistani Icon : (01 June 2012 - 10:47 AM) salam guys.
Azim-khan Icon : (19 May 2012 - 11:19 AM) salom bachaho )
Resize Shouts Area

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Good Pashtoons - Bad Pashtoons Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 25 June 2008 - 05:16 AM

It is said that shinno is a "good pashtun" and ghorzang a "bad pashtun" :D . OK, it is a simplistic way of categorizing people, but maybe we can get more details on who fits in these categories and what the criteria are ?

As an iranian I am a bit confused, and probably many from Tajikistan are also confused. I don't have personal problems with pashtuns, but my views have become more negative towards them after hearing from Tajiks of Afghanistan how "bad" many of them are.

What are the characteristics of a good pashtun - not being anti-Persian is enough, or are there other characteristics ?

Where are most of the good pashtuns in afghanistan - in kabul only, or elsewhere ? What percentage of good pashtuns are "Persianized" (Persian speaking or identifying equally with persian and pashtoon culture) ?

Where are most of the bad pashtuns - tribal areas ?

What is the hope that there will be more good pashtuns and fewer bad ones ?
0

#2 User is offline   Kamyar Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
157
Joined:
29-December 07

Posted 25 June 2008 - 06:24 AM

I didn't even know shinno was Pashtun, not that I am against Pashtuns. All Pashtuns are welcome to Tajikam as long as they are not anti-Tajik. After all, the word Tajik refers to Farsizabans east of modern Iran, if a Pashtun speaks Farsi, and if he is not anti-Tajik, then that person can be considered Tajik. Since then there really wouldn't be any difference between us. Therefor to me shinno is a fellow brother.

Good Pashtuns are honest, respect Tajiks, respect the Khorasan heritage of this land, believe in equality and justice, want peace and harmony in our lands, reject extremism and fascism, reject Taliban, reject bad Pashtun leaders (Mullah Omar), etc.

Bad Pashtuns are dishonest, backstabbers, area against everything and everyone Tajik, support any Pashtun leader no matter how bad that leader is or what their political ideology is (eg Pashtuns who support Pashtun-Taliban and Pashtun-Communists at the same time), want Pashtun hegemony, support Pashtun-fascism, are anti-nonPashtun, etc.


Unfortunately many Pashtuns have characteristics from the second group, especially Pashtun leaders.


Examples of Good Pashtuns and Bad Pashtuns.

Bad Pashtuns:
Taliban
Gulbudhin Hekmatyar (and other Hezbe Islamis)
Nadir Shah/Zahir Shah
Taraki, Amin, and other Pashtun-Communists
Afghan Mellatis
Most of the Karzai appointed ministers in todays Afghanistan government (fascist anti-Tajik Karim Khoram, fascist anti-Tajik Abdul Jabar Sabet, etc)
etc, its a long list of fascists, terrorists and people who are against humanity and all support each other.


Good Pashtuns:
Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan
... I can't think of any other good Pashtun leaders, but there are lots good ordinary Pashtuns.


Here is a good Pashtun:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=V1TzJv7y2gg
0

#3 User is offline   Kamyar Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
157
Joined:
29-December 07

Posted 25 June 2008 - 07:04 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10553]
What are the characteristics of a good pashtun - not being anti-Persian is enough, or are there other characteristics ?
[/QUOTE]

If a Pashtun has good characteristics like honesty and decency, then he wouldn't need to be anti-Persian.

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10553]
Where are most of the good pashtuns in afghanistan - in kabul only, or elsewhere ? What percentage of good pashtuns are "Persianized" (Persian speaking or identifying equally with persian and pashtoon culture) ?
[/QUOTE]

They can be from any part of the country, Kabul has lots of anti-Tajik Pashtuns. Doesn't matter if Persianized, there are still lots of Pashtuns who are Persianized but would spit on the name Iran or Khorasan.

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10553]
Where are most of the bad pashtuns - tribal areas ?
[/QUOTE]

Even urbanized and modernized Pashtuns living in Western countries can be tribal minded Pashtun fascists.

And sometimes Pashtuns from poor tribal areas can be the most respectful to Tajiks.

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10553]
What is the hope that there will be more good pashtuns and fewer bad ones ?[/QUOTE]

We need more Pashtuns like this to speak out:
http://www.youtube.c...1TzJv7y2gg&NR=1
0

#4 User is offline   arshak Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
461
Joined:
12-January 08

Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:01 PM

[QUOTE=Kamyar;10557]
Examples of Good Pashtuns and Bad Pashtuns.

Bad Pashtuns:
Taliban
Gulbudhin Hekmatyar (and other Hezbe Islamis)
Nadir Shah/Zahir Shah
Taraki, Amin, and other Pashtun-Communists
Afghan Mellatis
Most of the Karzai appointed ministers in todays Afghanistan government (fascist anti-Tajik Karim Khoram, fascist anti-Tajik Abdul Jabar Sabet, etc)
etc, its a long list of fascists, terrorists and people who are against humanity and all support each other.


Good Pashtuns:
Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan
... I can't think of any other good Pashtun leaders, but there are lots good ordinary Pashtuns.

[/QUOTE]

I would add the following to both lists:

Mega Bad
Mir Wais Ghilzai-Hotaki
Mir Mahmoud Ghilzai-Hotaki
Mir Ashraf Ghilzai-Hotaki
Zolfaqar Khan
Mahmoud Mirza Durrani
Firuzoddin Mirza Durrani
Asadollah Khan Abdali
Shah Shuja
Abdulrahman Khan


Good
Mir Abdulaziz Ghilzai-Hotaki
Ahmad Shah Duranni
Noor Mohammad Khan
Fateh Khan Barakzai
Kamran Mirza Duranni

Unsure
Teymour Shah Duranni?
Mujadedi?
0

#5 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,234
Joined:
10-October 07

Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:21 PM

Noor Mohammad Khan? do you mean Sayed Noor Mohammad Shah?

Mujadidi is not Pushtoon, he has arab origin.
0

#6 User is offline   Administrator Icon

  • Sar Dabeer
  • Icon
Group:
Administrators
Posts:
557
Joined:
17-May 07
Location:
w

Posted 25 June 2008 - 10:08 PM

Ahmad Shah Durrani is a Good Pashtun? lol
0

#7 User is offline   Rostam Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
447
Joined:
17-May 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:46 AM

[quote=Gul agha;10577]Ahmad Shah Durrani is a Good Pashtun? lol[/quote]
loooool

Who cares they are bad or good.....that seems clear to me :o

Fact is that we dont want to live under banner of AFGHAN or AFGHANISTAN!
We should fight for ourself and our rights....and not care about who is good or bad!
0

#8 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 08:21 AM

Is Karzai a good or bad Pashtun ?
Is he a bad Pashtun disguising as a good Pashtun ?
Is he better than the previous Pashtun dictators ruling Afghanistan ?
0

#9 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 08:36 AM

Well, knowing "good Pashtuns" you could make allies out of them - no ? If not allies, at least harmless bystanders. Are they all bad ? If so, what does Rostam find that is so bad about them (even the "good ones", supposedly, like shinno) ?
[QUOTE=Rostam;10578]loooool
Who cares they are bad or good.....that seems clear to me :o
We should fight for ourself and our rights....and not care about who is good or bad![/QUOTE]
0

#10 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 08:41 AM

Are people like shinno a very small minority ? I assume shinno is persianized - (maybe he is not - and is playing good cop / bad cop routine with Ghorzan :D as the bad cop) and would not spit on Iran or Khorasan. Are these Persianized Tajiks around 30% - my guess - of the Pashtuns in AFG ? What makes so many of them hate Iran so much since unlike the Hazaras they have not lived in Iran to suffer discrimination ?
[QUOTE=Kamyar;10559]
They can be from any part of the country, Kabul has lots of anti-Tajik Pashtuns. Doesn't matter if Persianized, there are still lots of Pashtuns who are Persianized but would spit on the name Iran or Khorasan.
[/QUOTE]
0

#11 User is offline   arshak Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
461
Joined:
12-January 08

Posted 26 June 2008 - 10:31 AM

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;10561]Noor Mohammad Khan? do you mean Sayed Noor Mohammad Shah?

Mujadidi is not Pushtoon, he has arab origin.[/QUOTE]

Noor Mohammad Khan Ghilzai was Chief Minister to Shahrokh Mirza Afshar, shahanshah of Khorasan. In 1749 he returned to Afghanistan as he wanted to take the throne of Afghanistan. He was both a friend of Ahmad Shah Durrani and also a rival of him. Apparantly both of them had a lot of support in Afghanistan and my homeland(Khorasan province in Iran).

"On his return Alunad Shah reappointed Mir Menu as Governor of Punjab.

Arriving home in Kandahar, Ahmad Shah discovered another plot against him. This time Noor Mohammad Khan Solaiman Khil, one of the unsuccessful candidates of Shir Surklfs s Loya Jirgah had claimed leadership over Kandahar.

Noor Mohammad along with a few of his assistants such as Kado Khan, Mohabat, Osman and others were deposed and killed." source: http://www.beepworld...madshahbaba.htm
0

#12 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,234
Joined:
10-October 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 10:51 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10584]Is Karzai a good or bad Pashtun ?
Is he a bad Pashtun disguising as a good Pashtun ?
Is he better than the previous Pashtun dictators ruling Afghanistan ?[/QUOTE]

Dear Nadir Shah,

In the begining Karzai pretended to be good, but now people know him very well and cant be deceived anymore. He is no any better than the others. As we have got a saying in AFghanistan, Sage Zard beydare(brother) Shaghal ast.
0

#13 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,234
Joined:
10-October 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 10:55 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10586]Well, knowing "good Pashtuns" you could make allies out of them - no ? If not allies, at least harmless bystanders. Are they all bad ? If so, what does Rostam find that is so bad about them (even the "good ones", supposedly, like shinno) ?[/QUOTE]

Dear Nadir Shah,

Every category of poeple have got good or bad, and the Pushtoons are not exception. If we put the good and bad all in one scale and dont differentiate between them, then the others will raise alot of questions about our ill judgment and it will further harm us in a differnt way. Yes, shino seems good guy to me. He respects us, he recognizes our god given right, in return I personally respect him. This is the way it is.
0

#14 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,234
Joined:
10-October 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 10:59 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10587]Are people like shinno a very small minority ? I assume shinno is persianized - (maybe he is not - and is playing good cop / bad cop routine with Ghorzan :D as the bad cop) and would not spit on Iran or Khorasan. Are these Persianized Tajiks around 30% - my guess - of the Pashtuns in AFG ? What makes so many of them hate Iran so much since unlike the Hazaras they have not lived in Iran to suffer discrimination ?[/QUOTE]

We dont know for sure he is persianized, do we? I have seen Persianized Pushtoons who are worse than the others. I personally got Pushtoon friends who are number one critical of Karim Khuram, if I hate them just because they are Pushtoon then it will be very unwise choice. The persianized Pushtoons are around 10%.

I should also mention that most of persianized pushtoons are persians from mother side.
0

#15 User is offline   Rostam Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
447
Joined:
17-May 07

Posted 26 June 2008 - 10:23 PM

[quote=Nader Shah;10586]Well, knowing "good Pashtuns" you could make allies out of them - no ? If not allies, at least harmless bystanders. Are they all bad ? If so, what does Rostam find that is so bad about them (even the "good ones", supposedly, like shinno) ?[/quote]
Its absolutly not relevant for us...how many of them are good and how many are bad......fact is that we dont want to be part of Afghanistan.

Even if 100% of Afghans is good....thats great :)
BUT STILL....I DONT WANT TO BE AFGHAN or LIVE UNDER BANNER OF AFGHANISTAN!
CAUSE I AM NOTTTTTTTTTTTTT AFGHAN!
0

#16 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:41 AM

That's enough to convince me that all Pashtuns are bad, and the only good ones are half-Persian. Of course, they can choose what side they are on, but they can't be on both sides like shinno, winking to Ghorzan one day, to Rika Khana another. I am sorry to say this, but 10 % is nothing given that most of those are half-Persian.

Pashtuns must be eliminated once and for all. I am with Rostam :)


[QUOTE=Rika Khana;10599]. The persianized Pushtoons are around 10%. I should also mention that most of persianized pushtoons are persians from mother side.[/QUOTE]
0

#17 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:47 AM

I now agree with you, Rostam Jan. Pashtuns are a lost cause, good or bad, they must be left to their own devices and let go. Let them determine their future alone, without forcing others to accompany them in their bumpy and lengthy journey towards civilization.
[QUOTE=Rostam;10610]Its absolutly not relevant for us...how many of them are good and how many are bad......fact is that we dont want to be part of Afghanistan.

Even if 100% of Afghans is good....thats great :)
BUT STILL....I DONT WANT TO BE AFGHAN or LIVE UNDER BANNER OF AFGHANISTAN!
CAUSE I AM NOTTTTTTTTTTTTT AFGHAN![/QUOTE]
0

#18 User is offline   arshak Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
461
Joined:
12-January 08

Posted 27 June 2008 - 01:26 PM

[QUOTE=Gul agha;10577]Ahmad Shah Durrani is a Good Pashtun? lol[/QUOTE]

He was one of Nader Shah's(the real one, not his descendant on the forum ;) ) most trusted servants. He was also nice to Shahrokh Mirza Afshar. So having served Persia and Persians is good enough to put him on the goodies list, even though he was hostile to others, after all no ones perfect otherwise everyone should go on baddies list.
0

#19 User is offline   Administrator Icon

  • Sar Dabeer
  • Icon
Group:
Administrators
Posts:
557
Joined:
17-May 07
Location:
w

Posted 27 June 2008 - 06:38 PM

Just because he was Nader's Ghulam Bacha does not make him a hero for us. Ahmad Shah is the reason for this mess in this region after 1747.
0

#20 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:49 AM

Although I have great respect for Rooyintan's historical knowledge, I agree with Gul Agha that this figure is not worthy of our respect, since he was responsible for separating much of Khorasan from Iran, and cared more about his own power.

Dear Rooyintan, was Durrani a Pashtoon nationalist of sorts ( whatever that meant centuries ago) or was he neutral or was he pro-Persian (doubt that ...) ?
0

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users