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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Why only Persian? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 09:02 PM

I do not understand those who edit Wikipedia. They seem to be the enemies of our nation. In the biography of our great people except Persian there should be Tajik with a slash. Some people in their utopist worlds and dreams have already changed the name of Tajik and delete that from the biographies. That is unethical. Who is that person who decides these things for the people of Tajikistan? We need to fight him!!
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#2 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 10:12 PM

PERSIAN is English term used for identifying people of the PARS ethnicity and PARSI culture. Tajik(i) is a Turko/Chinese term for the PARS ethnicity and PARSI culture.

So in the English section of WIKI - the correct term is PERSIAN - and not TAJIK.

The people of Tajikistan are PARS (Persian in English) - but called TAJIKS by foreigners - TURK/Chinese and later the RUSSIANS.

Please do not project the current false TAJIK ideology onto past history. It is a fallacy. Current politics and ignorance on your part is the cause of your irritation - if you knew well you would not be offended by those greats being called Persian - because Tajiks are Persians.

You should not be offended by it - you should be happy about it.

Ahhangar
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#3 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:19 AM

Do most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe (I guess so) ? People like PORS must be the minority, right ?

It is understandable, given the length for which the Soviet Propaganda machine has been operational ...
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#4 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 09:24 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10659]Do most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe (I guess so) ? People like PORS must be the minority, right ?

It is understandable, given the length for which the Soviet Propaganda machine has been operational ...[/QUOTE]

Yes, most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe and people like PORS are in minority. I also feel myself Tajik and Iranian-Aryan, but not Persian. I think, it should not be problem.
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#5 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 01:31 PM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;10672]Yes, most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe and people like PORS are in minority. I also feel myself Tajik and Iranian-Aryan, but not Persian. I think, it should not be problem.[/QUOTE]

Indeed we are all Iranian - we are all Iranic peoples - our inter-Iranic language is Persian - what links us all together is the Persian language which has elements of all Iranic languages within it and is more than a language of just the PARS peoples.

In Tajikistan the PARSi (Tajik) speakers - are Pars ethnically - but those whom speak other Iranic languages - like Yaghnobi - or other Pamiri languages - they are not Persians - but all the Iranic peoples are IRANIAN.

The Persian language belongs to all Iranians - not just the Persians.

Ahhangar
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#6 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 01:34 PM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10659]Do most people in Tajikistan think like Dushanbe (I guess so) ? People like PORS must be the minority, right ?

It is understandable, given the length for which the Soviet Propaganda machine has been operational ...[/QUOTE]

Indeed Nadershah,

It is understandable for the ordinary folk of Tajikistan whom do not have access to many different sources of books and authors - but for a person like Dushanbe - whom is fluent in English - it is very puzzling that he still believe in the Soviet-Turkic propaganda.

Ahhangar
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#7 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 03:39 PM

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;10685]

In Tajikistan the PARSi (Tajik) speakers - are Pars ethnically - but those whom speak other Iranic languages - like Yaghnobi - or other Pamiri languages - they are not Persians - but all the Iranic peoples are IRANIAN.


Ahhangar[/QUOTE]


I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between Persians and Iranians.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of Tajik. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.
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#8 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 09:08 PM

[quote=Afrasiab;10692]I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between Persians and Iranians.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of Tajik. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.[/quote]


being a Persian Speaker is totally different from being an ethnic Persian. The real definition of Persian is in fact Iranian or Indo-Iranic meaning every Tajik, Kurd, Alan, Baluch...etc is a Persian. The Greeks started this concept when they called Greater Iran "Persia" and the people of Persia (greater Iran) "Persian". Tajik is also a foreign concept started in the east. The Chinese first used the term "Ta-Yeuzhi" for the Sakas,Tocharians, and later on for the Kushans; This term evolved into "Tajik" when the Turkic tribes came to Central Asia. Calling ourselves Persian, Tajik, Aryan, Iranian is no different from a German using Allemande, Deutsch, German..etc for his Identity. When we are speaking English or any other western language it is better to use Persian than Tajik.
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#9 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 09:19 PM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;10692]I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between Persians and Iranians.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of Tajik. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.[/QUOTE]

Zooooonk
Bactrians, Parthians and Sogdians were already strongly mixed with Persians...before the advent of Islam...that does not mean that original eastern-iranian people like Yaghnobis arent Persians. First of all ''Persian'' is not a race but more a civilization and equal to the Iranian civilization (from Babylonia to India)...everyone that lived in the Persian empire was declared and was known as Persian...of course mostly by outsiders (Greecs,...,Macedonians). Indians used for Tocharians and Sassanians the term ''Tayui''. Tati people who are ethnic Persians of Aserbaidshan do also not speak the same language as we do it today but an middle evli dialect, a purely Parthian dialect...but they are still Persians..Lurs speak a southern dialect of Persian so arent they Persians? The only reason why Yaghnobies and other small Tajik communities speak another conservative language is because they didnt lost their original language while we had to reintroduce Persian in a deformed version. Arabics influence is one and main reason of many others. How do you know how the eastern dialects differed from western ones? Old-Persian died out and Parthian was another dialect that took Old-Persians place...and Soghdian and Parthian were on the same level...plus Soghdian was in easten Iran known as ''lingua franca''...just because some speak anothr Iranic language does not mean they are different, maybe some but the majority are the same. The difference between the southern iranic language of Wakhi etc. are not big...but concerned to Pushtu they are two different languages different like water and fire. Yaghnobis speak today only another dialect of Parsi...an older one. Thats it..

Ps:modern Persian language is the result of all eastern Iranian dialects with the fundamental qualities of Persian language...
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#10 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 09:25 PM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;10692]I cannot agree with this opinion. All people of Tajikistan who has Iranian blood are Tajiks. It is our general name. By the way, in Badakhshan of Tajikistan there is a Persian speaking people - Vanjies. Two centuries ago they finally accepted Tajik-Persian language (before they spoke on own badakhshani language). What you think, who are they?
Ancestors of modern Tajiks spoke in different languages as today our pamirians and yaghnabies speak in different languages. On ancient persian language spoke only one part of our ancestors. And it is erroneous to divide Tajiks between Persians and Iranians.
In my opinion, is better to not discuss in occasion of the term of Tajik. Today more than 20 million people in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, and also in Afghanistan name themselves Tajik. There is not necessitiese say them to name themselves Persians if they do not want it? By the way, ancestors of Tajiks of Varorud never named themselves Persians. They named their language Persian, but not themselves.[/QUOTE]

Dear Afraiseb,

I want to retract my initial statement that all Tajiks of Tajikistan are Persian ethnically. You are right that originally alot of the population what was considered eastern Iran and north eastern Iran had Bactrian - Sogdian and other Eastern ethnics. They differed in language to the Persians but both they and the Persians were of the same IRANIAN race. You are correct in this assertion and I thank you for correcting me.

If we define a Persian as person whom is Iranian by race and speaks the Persian language - then.....

Do you not think that since the eastern Iranian peoples have accepted the New Persian - which is influenced so heavily by their own languages - that today they ought to be known as Persians? I mean if they are the same race as the original Persians - i.e. Iranian - and now they speak Persian - what difference is there really between them and Persians?

What are your thoughts?

I am happy as long the Iranian identity is promoted so that all the language groups are united.
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#11 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 10:37 PM

[QUOTE=Gul agha;10703]being a Persian Speaker is totally different from being an ethnic Persian. The real definition of Persian is in fact Iranian or Indo-Iranic meaning every Tajik, Kurd, Alan, Baluch...etc is a Persian. The Greeks started this concept when they called Greater Iran "Persia" and the people of Persia (greater Iran) "Persian". Tajik is also a foreign concept started in the east. The Chinese first used the term "Ta-Yeuzhi" for the Sakas,Tocharians, and later on for the Kushans; This term evolved into "Tajik" when the Turkic tribes came to Central Asia. Calling ourselves Persian, Tajik, Aryan, Iranian is no different from a German using Allemande, Deutsch, German..etc for his Identity. When we are speaking English or any other western language it is better to use Persian than Tajik.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that the word Persian used by foreigners - especially by Westerners - is meant as a term that covers the whole of the Iranic world and not confined to the political geography of present day Persia - Iran. So in that sense - absolutely when using talking in English we ought to use Persian.


Internally speaking - when using our own language - if an ethnic or original Pars is defined as a person of Iranian race whom uses the Parsi language - then anyone of us whom is from the Iranian race and now speaks Parsi as a mother tongue can be considered as ethnic Pars.

I think in Afghanistan - the term PARSI for the language and the term PARS for the ethnically Iranic peoples whom speak PARSI - should be adopted as it would better unite the people whom are often 'Tajiks'.

It is a clear fact that the term Tajik is not widely used by the PARS peoples of Afghanistan and is a foreign term. It is probably why our people have resorted to emphasizing their geographic origin as identities. The term Tajik was an acknowledgment of Turkic superiority - and it could be part of the reason why they do not respect us - unless they have their head kicked in.

Those whom are not ethnically Pars and speak Persian - and whom have always acted to sabotage Pars (Tajik) unity within Afghanistan should not be our concern at the moment.
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#12 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:24 PM

A complete mess!!!!!! I suppose Ahhangar likes salads very much (or Spanish cuisine), (I do not know if he knows Tajik "shakarob")


[QUOTE=Ahhangar;10710]I agree with you that the word Persian used by foreigners - especially by Westerners - is meant as a term that covers the whole of the Iranic world and not confined to the political geography of present day Persia - Iran. So in that sense - absolutely when using talking in English we ought to use Persian.


Internally speaking - when using our own language - if an ethnic or original Pars is defined as a person of Iranian race whom uses the Parsi language - then anyone of us whom is from the Iranian race and now speaks Parsi as a mother tongue can be considered as ethnic Pars.

I think in Afghanistan - the term PARSI for the language and the term PARS for the ethnically Iranic peoples whom speak PARSI - should be adopted as it would better unite the people whom are often 'Tajiks'.

It is a clear fact that the term Tajik is not widely used by the PARS peoples of Afghanistan and is a foreign term. It is probably why our people have resorted to emphasizing their geographic origin as identities. The term Tajik was an acknowledgment of Turkic superiority - and it could be part of the reason why they do not respect us - unless they have their head kicked in.

Those whom are not ethnically Pars and speak Persian - and whom have always acted to sabotage Pars (Tajik) unity within Afghanistan should not be our concern at the moment.[/QUOTE]
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#13 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 01:25 AM

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10830]A complete mess!!!!!! I suppose Ahhangar likes salads very much (or Spanish cuisine), (I do not know if he knows Tajik "shakarob")[/QUOTE]

Dear Dushanbe,


A mess is something that is full contradictions. Show me how it is a mess by showing the contradictions within it.

A difference between what foreigners use to refer to us and what we should us to refer to us is the point of the above post.

I do not know "Shakarob" - so please enlighten me.

The real mess is the current situation which is the result of countless policies imposed on us by those whom did not have our interests at heart.

All of us are part of the same Iranian race - some of us speak different languages - like Yaghnobi or Shughnani or Bakhtiari or Kurdi or Persian. Being a Persian is one who is of the Iranian race and speaks Persian.
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#14 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 01:40 AM

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;10831]Dear Dushanbe,


A mess is something that is full contradictions. Show me how it is a mess by showing the contradictions within it.[/QUOTE]

No. A mess is something which is a mixture of many things. In other words: chaos.
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#15 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 01:46 AM

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;10831]Dear Dushanbe,

All of us are part of the same Iranian race - some of us speak different languages - like Yaghnobi or Shughnani or Bakhtiari or Kurdi or Persian. Being a Persian is one who is of the Iranian race and speaks Persian.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! Persians are of Iranian race. I am also of Aryanic race.
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#16 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:09 AM

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10833]Exactly! Persians are of Iranian race. I am also of Aryanic race.[/QUOTE]


As an Iranian by race whom uses Persian as his first language - you fit the definition of a Persian - hence you are a PERSIAN ! :)

What is a Persian if he is not an Iranian by race whom speaks Persian?

Is it a mess or clear as water?

Ahhangar
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#17 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:25 AM

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;10835]As an Iranian by race whom uses Persian as his first language - you fit the definition of a Persian - hence you are a PERSIAN ! :)

What is a Persian if he is not an Iranian by race whom speaks Persian?

Is it a mess or clear as water?

Ahhangar[/QUOTE]

If Tajik means a Central Asian Persian, then I am a Tajik.

Yes, it is clear as water...
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#18 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:40 AM

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10840]If Tajik means a Central Asian Persian, then I am a Tajik.

Yes, it is clear as water...[/QUOTE]

In some of the regions of Iran where the majority speaks a Turkic language - they refer to the Persian speakers of their area, as Tajik.

So strictly speaking the term Tajik is not specific to the geography of Central Asia.

The term Tajik is what Turks/Chinese use to refer to us. So when we are speaking in Turkic we should use the term Tajik. But here we are speaking English and in English we are referred to as Persians - so you are a Persian of Central Asia.

The original term for those of the Iranian race whom spoke Persian is PARS and the original term for their language is PARSI.

Forum member Dushanbe = Yak fard e PARS e ASIYAYe MYANA.

Is it still a mess?
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#19 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:57 AM

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;10843]In some of the regions of Iran where the majority speaks a Turkic language - they refer to the Persian speakers of their area, as Tajik.

So strictly speaking the term Tajik is not specific to the geography of Central Asia.

The term Tajik is what Turks/Chinese use to refer to us. So when we are speaking in Turkic we should use the term Tajik. But here we are speaking English and in English we are referred to as Persians - so you are a Persian of Central Asia.

The original term for those of the Iranian race whom spoke Persian is PARS and the original term for their language is PARSI.

Forum member Dushanbe = Yak fard e PARS e ASIYAYe MYANA.

Is it still a mess?[/QUOTE]

Stop that man...I know all those things. I feel like a first grade student when someone tries to teach me all that.
I do not understand one thing right now. Why do you so much care about what "English people" think and what "English people" say?
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#20 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:12 AM

[quote=Dushanbe;10844]Stop that man...I know all those things. I feel like a first grade student when someone tries to teach me all that.
I do not understand one thing right now. Why do you so much care about what "English people" think and what "English people" say?[/quote]

You detest a western concept (Persian) but adore a chino-turkic concept (Tajik)?

Can you please explain to me why you think and feel like this
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