[Dushanbe]

Pars,

First of all - I did not have an intention to hurt anybodies feelings. Next is that I have a right to protect the interests of my people and “dignity” and “honor” of my nation’s name.
It is so regretful to read your unfair accusations against me. I used to perceive you as a rational and wise member of this forum, but now I have to review my perceptions.
Your accusations are:
1. You are buffling around and telling things without any reasoning
2. General claims that you make, even four year child can do that
3. That I do not provide “good examples” for my statements
4. you are slovinisized and attached emotions on one sided stories you have seen from TVs
5. You seem radically negative thinking about Parsi and our past, and radically positive thinker about 74 years of history
My defense
1. It is you buffling around as if we do not have any feelings towards our identity by trying to show that you are better than others, who is able to ‘think out of box’ while still being in the box, and have regained “a Persian Identity”. You are misleading those who are not from Tajikistan and know little about us – who know us from the writings in the internet. Spreading the ideas of Name-change and script-change and by this your are showing you personal troubled identity crisis.
2. You are wrong again! A four year old child cannot make statements that I do. But he of she can dream and believe in those dreams like you and buffle around about them.
3. The examples are all around you. Only a four year old child needs a detailed explanation about simple things. If you wish an example for anything – you need to ask for it in a clear language.
4. Only because of not supporting your dreams about name-change and script-change you call me slavonised? This is a statement of a four year old child and this shows your stage of mental development which is not ready for mature communication.
5. That is not true. There were both good things and bad things in the lives of the peoples who lived in Central Asia in different periods of its history. We need to evaluate all those things objectively.



Cheers



[QUOTE=PORS;10845]First of all, who are you to tell me what I need to do and what not? Came recently, and now telling what is right and what is wrong. First think and analyze before you post something.

Secondly, it's not misleading. Instead you are buffling around and telling things without any reasoning. General claims that you make, even four year child can do that. Give evidence and back up your statement by good examples. As for Parsi script, it's important to learn and be fluent in it as because it was our script that Ferdowsi, Roudaki and others wrote in, not Cyrillic. Having cyrillic for just 74 years and you are already saying it's yours and favoring it over Parsi, which existed for thousands of years and connected us to our culture and history. Of course, brothers from Iran and modern Afghanistan take it seriously. Unlike you, who you are slovinisized and attached emotions on one sided stories you have seen from TVs, these people care about our culture and history. You seem radically negative thinking about Parsi and our past, and radically positive thinker about 74 years of history. Of course, it's history and you cannot change the past. At least, you can learn from the past, to rectify your future and brighten it.


Pors.[/QUOTE]

[Dushanbe]

I do not consider it a symbol of domonance. Do you consider Arabic scrip as a symbol of Arabs dominance?

(by the way in Tajik alphabit we also had to cread additional letters that Russians do not)

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;10895]Removing the symbol of domination by outsiders is not a beneficial thing ? It is emotion is part of human psyche and our people need such foreign concepts to be removed to strengthen their sense of identity.


Ahhangar[/QUOTE]

[PORS]

Dushanbe,

I have tried a lot to give you some perspectives on why we have to consider "gradual script change" for Parsi and simultaneously change Cyrillic as a secondary script, but seems I can't go on further to elaborate that for you because of two simple reason: 1) You got biased toward me; 2) You have big prejudice toward unification of in economic and cultural terms with modern Afghanistan and Iran (Persian speaking countries), as you lack knowledge and information about them.

No wonder for being harsh on you as a member of this forum. It's very painful to see such open-minded member of this forum from Tajikistan, like you who says: "to learn Parsi for the sake of writing letters to friends in Iran and Afghanistan."

"Dost bashad an ki girad dasti dost,
Dar parishanhalivo darmandagi"
"Darakhte dosti binshan, ki kami dil ba bar arad,
Nehali doshmani barkan ki ranji beshomar arad."

Dushanbe, as for judging and reviewing your position about me, it's your own issues. I don't post here to show greatness or to degrade somebody. It's solely educational purposes and toward our unification. Whenever I see something wrong, I tell straightforwardly. I do it with clear and in a polite way, but sometimes as a friend and compatriot, things might be expressed in impolite and strict way. That's natural and don't get it as accusations.

As for my personal identity crisis, misleading those who are not from TJ, those who dream about name-change and script change and those who think and tell right from top of their mind without any analysis and critical reasoning, I won't go further and waste both of our precious times. Let's leave it to the audience and let them judge.





Pors.


[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10898]Pars,

First of all - I did not have an intention to hurt anybodies feelings. Next is that I have a right to protect the interests of my people and “dignity” and “honor” of my nation’s name.
It is so regretful to read your unfair accusations against me. I used to perceive you as a rational and wise member of this forum, but now I have to review my perceptions.
Your accusations are:
1. You are buffling around and telling things without any reasoning
2. General claims that you make, even four year child can do that
3. That I do not provide “good examples” for my statements
4. you are slovinisized and attached emotions on one sided stories you have seen from TVs
5. You seem radically negative thinking about Parsi and our past, and radically positive thinker about 74 years of history
My defense
1. It is you buffling around as if we do not have any feelings towards our identity by trying to show that you are better than others, who is able to ‘think out of box’ while still being in the box, and have regained “a Persian Identity”. You are misleading those who are not from Tajikistan and know little about us – who know us from the writings in the internet. Spreading the ideas of Name-change and script-change and by this your are showing you personal troubled identity crisis.
2. You are wrong again! A four year old child cannot make statements that I do. But he of she can dream and believe in those dreams like you and buffle around about them.
3. The examples are all around you. Only a four year old child needs a detailed explanation about simple things. If you wish an example for anything – you need to ask for it in a clear language.
4. Only because of not supporting your dreams about name-change and script-change you call me slavonised? This is a statement of a four year old child and this shows your stage of mental development which is not ready for mature communication.
5. That is not true. There were both good things and bad things in the lives of the peoples who lived in Central Asia in different periods of its history. We need to evaluate all those things objectively.



Cheers[/QUOTE]

[Dushanbe]

Well…Probably this forum was created for the purpose of furthering someone’s agenda. You speak about friendship and spiritual unity, but at the same time forcing some of your standards on the other party e.g. script, and do not respect the name of my country and this forum. Friendship and unity need neutrality, trust and acceptance of the other party as it is.




Cheers and bye

[Nader Shah]

I doubt that the agenda of this forum is to promote "Persianism" - I just made up this word - but the founders know better: dear Gul Agha is this so ? It is called Tajikam not Persicam

I am proud of the Tajiks of Tajikistan because they bring this additional element of having been part of the Soviet Empire and benefiting from the positive aspects of Russian influence to the Persian-speaking ( or Tajik-speaking if you prefer ) world, and even the "racial" diversity (chinese and european genes) there makes it a very exotic part of the Persian-speaking world, quite unlike Iran (and also Afghanistan).

I hope the Tajiks of Tajikistan will realize where their roots are, because Rudaki was born there and he was no Cyrillic-writer and Russian admirer. Admittedly, times have changed. Iranian goverment elites admire Arabs, Tajik ruling elites admire Russians, and Afghan ruling elites admire Indians. I hope we will all regain our self confidence, as we grow culturally and economically to match our previous achievements once again.

Tajikistan's place is not so special or dear in the mind of Russians and even Central Asians, but it very dear in the minds of awakened and historically/culturally aware Iranians and Afghanistanis. If most people in Tajikistan don't care about their brethren outside, it is normal and the same is true in Iran, we don't expect much at this time as people are asleep and unaware. But I am very hopeful that Iranians will rediscover their past in Central Asia, and they are doing it in small but increasing numbers. I am sure the same is happening in Tajikistan (PORS and Darius Jan, for example) and it will spread to more people.




[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10907]Well…Probably this forum was created for the purpose of furthering someone’s agenda. You speak about friendship and spiritual unity, but at the same time forcing some of your standards on the other party e.g. script, and do not respect the name of my country and this forum. Friendship and unity need neutrality, trust and acceptance of the other party as it is.




Cheers and bye[/QUOTE]

[Nader Shah]

PORS e Gerami, Rudaki alone would have been sufficient as your witness, but the list is infinitely longer, and you know who you truly are
[QUOTE=PORS;10900]As for my personal identity crisis, misleading those who are not from TJ, those who dream about name-change and script change and those who think and tell right from top of their mind without any analysis and critical reasoning, I won't go further and waste both of our precious times. Let's leave it to the audience and let them judge. Pors.[/QUOTE]

[arshak]

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10908]
I am proud of the Tajiks of Tajikistan because they bring this additional element of having been part of the Soviet Empire and benefiting from the positive aspects of Russian influence to the Persian-speaking ( or Tajik-speaking if you prefer ) world, and even the "racial" diversity (chinese and european genes) there makes it a very exotic part of the Persian-speaking world, quite unlike Iran (and also Afghanistan).
[/QUOTE]

Nader Shah jan,

Are you kidding Iran is exotic too... multiracial, we have Persians, Turkmens, Azeri, Armenian, Georgian, Assyrian, Arab, Jews, Kurdish, Taleshi, Baluchi, Hazara, Lurs, Qashqaei, Gilani, Laki, Zartoshti, Bandari, etc..
blend of Indo-Iranian, Altaic and Semetic, isn't it exotic enough?
In iran you go out of your city and it's like you're in another country. I also think Afghanistan is exotic, multiracial and also same as Iran if you go out of one city it's like you're in another country.

If you look back at history: Iran also had influences on both China and Russia and so did they on Iran. Manichaeism, Nestorianism and Islam all reached China via Persia(modern Iran). Chinese influenced Persia/Iran, Chai drinking, Persian Minature and some other art work and also Gun Powder weapons all is Chinese influence which happend during Ilkhanid period.

Russians influenced Iran between 1907-1921 as sphere of influence, they brought Samovar, Pirashki, Cossacks to Iran built roads.. words such as Doroshke and Kalaske are also of Russian origin. Russian language also has many persian words such as Takht, Shashlyk, etc. Russians also met with Persians and were looking for a religion, they decided not to become muslims because Islam forbids drinking therefore they went to Byzantine instead and embraced Orthodox christianity, so then they could continue drinking Vodka

So Iran, Tajikistan and Afghanistan all are exotic countries so are others like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Transcaucasian countries.

[Sohrab]

[QUOTE=rooyintan;10919]Nader Shah jan,

Are you kidding Iran is exotic too... multiracial, we have Persians, Turkmens, Azeri, Armenian, Georgian, Assyrian, Arab, Jews, Kurdish, Taleshi, Baluchi, Hazara, Lurs, Qashqaei, Gilani, Laki, Zartoshti, Bandari, etc..
blend of Indo-Iranian, Altaic and Semetic, isn't it exotic enough?
In iran you go out of your city and it's like you're in another country. I also think Afghanistan is exotic, multiracial and also same as Iran if you go out of one city it's like you're in another country.

If you look back at history: Iran also had influences on both China and Russia and so did they on Iran. Manichaeism, Nestorianism and Islam all reached China via Persia(modern Iran). Chinese influenced Persia/Iran, Chai drinking, Persian Minature and some other art work and also Gun Powder weapons all is Chinese influence which happend during Ilkhanid period.

Russians influenced Iran between 1907-1921 as sphere of influence, they brought Samovar, Pirashki, Cossacks to Iran built roads.. words such as Doroshke and Kalaske are also of Russian origin. Russian language also has many persian words such as Takht, Shashlyk, etc. Russians also met with Persians and were looking for a religion, they decided not to become muslims because Islam forbids drinking therefore they went to Byzantine instead and embraced Orthodox christianity, so then they could continue drinking Vodka

So Iran, Tajikistan and Afghanistan all are exotic countries so are others like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Transcaucasian countries.[/QUOTE]

Dear Rooyintan,

I do agree with all the above, but let me add a few more lines to it. Cultural exchanges is one thing which you mentioned above and being badly damaged and influenced by other cultures is totally different issue. It is OK if there are exchanges, it happens in the course of history all the time with all the nations, but only the cleverer ones can positively take advantage of it while the silly ones lose their values. Some of the above you mentioned are mostly industrial and economical influences rather than cultural and linguistic. Iran, among the other persian speaking countries is the only one which have got the pride of preserving its cultural and linguistic values to a great extent(although we have to admit some concerns as well), while on the other hand, we in Afghanistan, and the others in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan have badly been damaged, either by our laziness and stupidity or the conspiracy of our foes.

[arya-zadah]

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;10920]Dear Rooyintan,

I do agree with all the above, but let me add a few more lines to it. Cultural exchanges is one thing which you mentioned above and being badly damaged and influenced by other cultures is totally different issue. It is OK if there are exchanges, it happens in the course of history all the time with all the nations, but only the cleverer ones can positively take advantage of it while the silly ones lose their values. Some of the above you mentioned are mostly industrial and economical influences rather than cultural and linguistic. Iran, among the other persian speaking countries is the only one which have got the pride of preserving its cultural and linguistic values to a great extent(although we have to admit some concerns as well), while on the other hand, we in Afghanistan, and the others in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan have badly been damaged, either by our laziness and stupidity or the conspiracy of our foes.[/QUOTE]

brilliant words, Rika Khana Jan,
totally agree.

[Nader Shah]

It is exotic for me because people look, dress, behave, live differently from any other parts of Iran (at least many of them). Of course, Iran itself is very diverse but you won't find an Iranian singer like Tajik Parvina who looks Chinese/Korean, and also some of them are mixed with Russians. Those mixtures don't exist in Iran, although we have other mixtures (blacks for example in some parts of Persian Gulf). Also some of the Tajik singers like Firuza Alifova and Manija Davlatova seem to have come straight from Persian miniature paintings in how they look We don't have as much of those flavors in Iran. Turkmens are still very different looking from Uzbeks and some Tajiks, and they are the only exotic-looking people Iran (other than the handful of blacks).

[QUOTE=rooyintan;10919] Are you kidding Iran is exotic too... multiracial, we have Persians, Turkmens, Azeri, Armenian, Georgian, Assyrian, Arab, Jews, Kurdish, Taleshi, Baluchi, Hazara, Lurs, Qashqaei, Gilani, Laki, Zartoshti, Bandari, etc..blend of Indo-Iranian, Altaic and Semetic, isn't it exotic enough ? So Iran, Tajikistan and Afghanistan all are exotic countries so are others like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Transcaucasian countries.[/QUOTE]

[Nader Shah]

I forgot to mention that Iran may seem exotic to someone from tajikistan, but not to someone from Iran

[Afrasiab]

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;10930]It is exotic for me because people look, dress, behave, live differently from any other parts of Iran (at least many of them). Of course, Iran itself is very diverse but you won't find an Iranian singer like Tajik Parvina who looks Chinese/Korean, and also some of them are mixed with Russians. Those mixtures don't exist in Iran, although we have other mixtures (blacks for example in some parts of Persian Gulf). Also some of the Tajik singers like Firuza Alifova and Manija Davlatova seem to have come straight from Persian miniature paintings in how they look We don't have as much of those flavors in Iran. Turkmens are still very different looking from Uzbeks and some Tajiks, and they are the only exotic-looking people Iran (other than the handful of blacks).[/QUOTE]

People similar to singer Parvina in Tajikistan are maximum 2-3 thousand from 7 million population and they are not Tajiks, they are Koreans or Kirgizs. As I know, Parvina is half Korean half Kirgiz.
95% of Tajiks of Tajikistan are similar to Tajiks of Khorasan (Afghanistan). There are Tajiks who are similar to Uzbeks, but they are minority. But for us appearance is not important. For us is important Tajik patriotism. (One of our teachers at university which was very proud Tajik patriot and learned us to be proud Tajiks, was similar a little to Chingiskhan. But everybody respected with him, because he was great patriot).

[Dushanbe]

My girlfriend’s mother is Russian and her father is from Khujand, but she looks like Chingiskhan’s daughter:D. She is very hot;).

Non-Tajik girls are so kindhearted, gentle and easily become your girlfriend.

But Tajik girls are (in general) so cruel-hearted, do not show you their feelings and bite you like a dog! They are good only for becoming wives:mad:.

I do not understand some people who try to spread racist disease among peoples of Tajikistan...

[Arash]

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10937]

Non-Tajik girls are so kindhearted, gentle and easily become your girlfriend.

But Tajik girls are (in general) so cruel-hearted, do not show you their feelings and bite you like a dog! They are good only for becoming wives:mad:.

I do not understand some people who try to spread racist disease among peoples of Tajikistan...[/QUOTE]

i hope you are joking

ps. guys i am on vacation in Rasht right now. It is soooooo awesome, i spent day hiking through forest, rafting on the Sefid rud river going to bazaar. i am right now sitting in Kadous hotel cafe net in Rasht. Tommorow we go see the castle in Fuman region of gilan province and etc... i wish we could arrange tour of tajikistan, iran, afghanistan

[Dushanbe]

[QUOTE=Arash;10940]i hope you are joking

[/QUOTE]

Why do you hope so?

I wish I was there now, in your tour group. (I hope you do not mind if I wish so...)

[Sohrab]

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10937]My girlfriend’s mother is Russian and her father is from Khujand, but she looks like Chingiskhan’s daughter:D. She is very hot;).

Non-Tajik girls are so kindhearted, gentle and easily become your girlfriend.

But Tajik girls are (in general) so cruel-hearted, do not show you their feelings and bite you like a dog! They are good only for becoming wives:mad:.

I do not understand some people who try to spread racist disease among peoples of Tajikistan...[/QUOTE]

Dear Dushanbe,

Is it the way you look at your own Tajik ladies? I was completely surprised.

[Dushanbe]

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;10942]Dear Dushanbe,

Is it the way you look at your own Tajik ladies? I was completely surprised.[/QUOTE]

Dear Rika Khana,

Could you please elaborate the reasons of your becoming "completely surprised"?

And one more question: Are you male of female?

Thanks.

[Sohrab]

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;10943]Could you please elaborate the reasons of your becoming "completely surprised"?[/QUOTE]

Because the Tajik ladies are not the way you describe them. They are kindheart, good mothers, good sisters, good wives. And to be honest with you, by calling them a biting dog, you directly insulting yourself.

[Sohrab]

Dear Dushanbe,

If you judge the women on how they easily become your girlfriend, then you are heading to Turkistan rather than Kaaba.

[Dushanbe]

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;10945]Dear Dushanbe,

If you judge the women on how they easily become your girlfriend, then you are heading to Turkistan rather than Kaaba.[/QUOTE]

could you answer my second question, please?