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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Ethnicity * language: In search of identity, or on how tajiks became uzbeks Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 04:03 AM

Iran - Akhunds or iranians or people like me - are not interested in ruling over some of the most deprived areas of the world, as this will be a huge drain on our country which is itself deprived in many ways. It would have been better if you had joined us centuries ago, mostly for your own sake, but now it is not going to happen in a short time ... possibly decades, and only if all the people want it. However, seeking help would be wise since you are surrounded by enemies within and outside, and you should at least not make Iran (or Tajikistan) another enemy. It is unfortunate Akhonds are in power, but that is most unfortunate for Iranians above all. Is Emomali Rahmon a fanatic supported of Akhonds ?
[QUOTE=Ahhangar;11421]Do you see anyone here advocating the acceptance of Iranian rule in Afghanistan or Tajikistan? What are you on?
Ahhangar[/QUOTE]
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#22 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 04:09 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;11422]They key is to attract them towards that goal and treat them with the respect they deserve as human beings and fellow Persian speakers. If you keep insulting a group of people, do you expect they will want to unite with you ? Again, a big strategic mistake if most Tajiks think like you ...[/QUOTE]

Nader SHAH,

In Afghanistan and outside of Afghanistan we treat the Hazaras with more respect than anyone else - or atleast we used to - but they do not do the same with us - they have a Sunni hating streak within them - and thus are themselves the cause of their isolation.

They have only stabbed us in the back when we have given them respect.

Nader Shah - you need to learn about Afghanistan much more - before you start taking sides and getting emotional over your fellow Shias of Afghanistan whom you treated far worse than we ever did - in Iran.

Today Hazaras hate Iran more that anyone ! lol

I only have a problem with the regime - but Hazaras hate everything about it.
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#23 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 04:22 AM

Here are a few thoughts:
1) Why generalize to all Hazaras ? I think this issue has been discussed thoroughly by Afghanistanis themselves on this forum, and even if I don't know much about Afghanistan, many of the Tajiks on this forum (Darius, Gul Agha, Rika khaana) differ with you on this point.

2) Sunni-Shia hatred is really unfortunate, but we must work to eliminate these tendencies, not accentuate them.

3) I am not Shiite or Sunnite in belief, and neither were my parents religious (atheist and agnostic), and I do not care about Hazaras because they are shiite but because they speak my language and because they can help Tajiks to be stronger against Pashtoons by siding together.

3) As for Hazaras hating Iran ... it seems contradictory to what you said before since you said "Iran ... and its low-life Shia Hazaras" implying they are on Iran (or Akhond government) side. Even if they hate Iran, as some might due to the discrimination they suffered, there is every reason to turn this hatred into something better by not discriminating against them.

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;11425]Nader SHAH,

In Afghanistan and outside of Afghanistan we treat the Hazaras with more respect than anyone else - or atleast we used to - but they do not do the same with us - they have a Sunni hating streak within them - and thus are themselves the cause of their isolation.

They have only stabbed us in the back when we have given them respect.

Nader Shah - you need to learn about Afghanistan much more - before you start taking sides and getting emotional over your fellow Shias of Afghanistan whom you far worse than we ever did - in Iran.

Today Hazaras hate Iran more that anyone ! lol

I only have a problem with the regime - but Hazaras hate everything about it.[/QUOTE]
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#24 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 04:37 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;11424]Iran - Akhunds or iranians or people like me - are not interested in ruling over some of the most deprived areas of the world, as this will be a huge drain on our country which is itself deprived in many ways. It would have been better if you had joined us centuries ago, mostly for your own sake, but now it is not going to happen in a short time ... possibly decades, and only if all the people want it. However, seeking help would be wise since you are surrounded by enemies within and outside, and you should at least not make Iran (or Tajikistan) another enemy. It is unfortunate Akhonds are in power, but that is most unfortunate for Iranians above all. Is Emomali Rahmon a fanatic supported of Akhonds ?[/QUOTE]

I know that it is unfortunate for Iranians more than anyone else that Khonds are in power and hence my surprise at your extreme reaction to my saying that it is not our friend - and I mentioned Pakistan and many other alongside - yet you you interpreted it as something wrong and started saying "Paki ... in the ...hole" LOL . What is up with that?


And no way will there ever be an acceptance of Iranian rule in Afghanistan or Tajikistan - ever - especially if a real Persian entity emerges there - a Persian entity would favour reform in Akhond Iran.


All true patriot Persians would want to get rid of the Akhonds. OK - so I am not your enemy - if you are against the Akhonds - understand?

Now - you want to ask me about Rahmans stance towards Iranian Akhonds. I do not think that he support the Akhonds - he accepts economic aid and emphasizes cultural cooperation - that is hardly an endorsement of the theocracy of Akhonidism - especially by the ex communist Rahman.

I too favour economic cooperation with Iran - be it ruled by the Akhonds or otherwise. Economics has a great way of changing things for the better and so I am all for it. But this does not negate my position that Akhonds have not played a positive role in the past in Afghanistan. Infact they played a bad role. Even today - they are busy supporting Pashtunists in Afghanistan as long as it ensure something for the Shias - - - it is nothing to do with the Sunni Persian speakers - the Pashtuns are preferable to the Akhonds over the Sunni Persians.

It is why today the Hazara leaders do not do anything concrete for their Hazara people when they are attacked and looted by the Pashtun Nomads sent by Karzai ! They are just really messed up.


The only time the Akhonds started to support Massoud was when the Taliban killed the Iranian diplomats/spies in Mazar e Sharif - and even then it was not even enough to repair the damage it had done against Massoud through its agents previosly.

Anyhow - economic cooperation is a good thing. Trade is a great thing as a principle - and the more of it that occurs - the less important that ideologies and religion will be - and the less a chance for conflict.

Ahhangar
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#25 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 05:09 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;11426]Here are a few thoughts:
1) Why generalize to all Hazaras ? I think this issue has been discussed thoroughly by Afghanistanis themselves on this forum, and even if I don't know much about Afghanistan, many of the Tajiks on this forum (Darius, Gul Agha, Rika khaana) differ with you on this point.

2) Sunni-Shia hatred is really unfortunate, but we must work to eliminate these tendencies, not accentuate them.

3) I am not Shiite or Sunnite in belief, and neither were my parents religious (atheist and agnostic), and I do not care about Hazaras because they are shiite but because they speak my language and because they can help Tajiks to be stronger against Pashtoons by siding together.

3) As for Hazaras hating Iran ... it seems contradictory to what you said before since you said "Iran ... and its low-life Shia Hazaras" implying they are on Iran (or Akhond government) side. Even if they hate Iran, as some might due to the discrimination they suffered, there is every reason to turn this hatred into something better by not discriminating against them.[/QUOTE]


Well I admit that I have a strong bias against Hazaras - but I feel that it is fully justified having studied their past relationship with us and their current one - all aspects of it - be it cultural - political - economical - theological - geographical. I have studied their nationalism - unique Hazara nationalism - and their books. I have not been in the discussion about Hazaras on this forum with other people of Afghanistan - and so I am not aware fuly of what the other have said about them. The only discussion I have had about Hazaras has been with Afraiseb - who is not from Afghanistan.

They cry about the Pashtuns more than anyone else - but as soon as a Tajik removes the Pashtuns from power - they unite with the Pashtuns against the Tajiks. This happened during Habibulah Kalakani's time and during Massoud's time. Basically they are true backstabers! They were the ones whom let the Taliban into Kabul - just so the Taliban could fight against Massoud better - but Massoud trashed them both before retreating tactically.

I do not have a problem with Shiasim or any other belif system - as long as it is a private matter and out of politics. There many Shia in Afghainstan whom were allied with Massoud but hated the actions of the Akhonds and the Hezbe Wahdat Hazaras and fought against them.

Anyhow - my opposition of Hazaras is not because they are Shias - it is because they hate Tajiks and are our enemies. Simple.

In theory it would be nice if Hazara and Tajik were together and fought against Pashtoons - but that is not going to happen - because Hazaras do not value Persian unity. Tajiks have always been prepared to accept the Hazaras - but the Hazaras have always back stabbed us.


Regarding Hazaras hating Iran - YES they do - and they were the Akhonds little soldiers in Afghanistan during the past. They were favored by the Iranian Akhonds - not the Iranian people! The Iranian people treated the Hazaras far worse than any of the peoples of Afghanistan whom were refugees in Iran. In Iran they were called BARBARI ! And they also hate the Akhonds for using them and then dumping them in Afghanistan. It is quite complex - but rest assured - they hate everything about Iran - except the Shiasm. Isnt that great? lol


The only real concrete steps for something better is TAJIK unity within Afghanistan. Then they will be strong enough to not need the erroneous alliances with dubious Hazara or Uzbek groups or Pashtun groups Their unity will mean that they are strong enough that others would not dare to double cross them and sue for either neutrality or submission.

I say to my fellow Tajiks of Afghanistan to only concentrate on uniting themselves and strengthening themselves - and to not put any value in the sentiments Hazaras or other non Pashtuns - just work to unite yourselves - and then you will see your real strength and laugh at the thought being forced out necessity to resort to alliances with such peoples.


Ahhangar
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#26 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 05:39 AM

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;11400]I will tell you my thoughts about Tajiks of Uzbekistan some other time because I have a lot to say. I have a lot of relatives there and know how they are being Uzbekisized.

But now about what I said above...

I am very serious...It is one of the best plans and idea about how to achieve our goal.
Do you really think that there will be a peace in Afghanistan and Talibs will give up? It is very difficult and almost imposible to create a country which has no majority. "Either federation or separation" seems to be possible so far.

What do you think?[/QUOTE]

Back to our talk


The IMU and other Central Asian Islamists - except for the Tajik ones - alot of the time advocate a new Turkistan! The Pakistanis have been training them for a while - with the intension to take over all of Central Asia with them.

There is a specific thread called the "Study of the concept of Uzbekistan" in the "Tajik history and civilizations" subforum - for the purpose of studying Uzbekistan and seeing what possibilities lie there for improving the situation of Tajiks there. Although - there is yet very little activity in that thread.

http://tajikam.com/f...isplay.php?f=28

Lets work on that - and hopefully attract more Tajiks with specific knowledge about it to this forum.

Ahhangar
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#27 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 05:53 AM

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;11394]Dear Ahhangar,

My project about Samarkand and Bhukhoro is very long, but I will try to brief it so that it was not like a salad.

1. First we need to create our Khorasan. The tribal areas should be given to Pashtuns so that they created their Pashtunistan by adding those tribal arias from Pakistan.
2. Then, we should combine both Tajik lands into one state. I do not think that Hazara people will want independent and become isolated between Talibans and us, so we can give them autonomy within our country. And, probably, educated Pashtuns will not want to live under Taliban regime, so we will Persianise them very quickly.
3. A bigger country becomes a strategic country and most developed countries would like to cooperate to us and we will have more opportunity for development.
4. After some year when we will be more developed and on our foot with confidence, we shall take another steps:
- We need somehow to destabilize our neighboring country Uzbekistan. We know that there is Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan that wants to fight with Uzbekistan and make an Islamic country. We need secretly create camps and train them, make them more extremist and send them to Uzbekistan. After that we need secretly sponsor them and supply with weapons. Let there be some conflicts or a civil war. I believe this will be a long war. After some years of war when the country becomes weak, we shall stop supporting islamists, so that they were slowly destroyed.
- At the same time we shall increase the self-awareness between Tajiks and create some ethnic conflicts so that people could pay attention to their differences.
- When we will have a lot of supporters within Uzbekistan we shall invade Uzbekistan and take back our Samarkand and Bukhoro regions and kick out ethnic Uzbeks from there.
I tried to make it brief

So, what do you think about my project?[/QUOTE]

I support your opinion, but not the 4-th item. Civil war in Uzbekistan is not necessary to us. Uzbekistan is heart of region and war in this country will destabilize all region, first of all Tajikistan. Wars to us - to Tajiks will not bring anything useful.
For unite of Samarqand and Bukhara with Khurasan (Tajikistan) a first step there should be a reception of autonomous republic of Bukhara (wuth Samarqan) in structure of Uzbekistan. Then to make active process of national development of this republic. And only after 10-15 years to solve the question of independence of this republic.
I remember, that when in the beginning of 90th years in Tajikistan national movement amplified, it influenced on samarqandies and bukharies. Then in these cities the Tajik patriots-nationalists too became more active. But then the government of Uzbekistan pressed on them and they have calmed down. On the other hand civil war in Tajikistan negatively influenced process of activization of the Tajik nationalism in Samarkand and Bukhara.
Be assured, if Tajikistan will be strong, if Khurasan will be created, samarqandies and bukharies will not sit silently.
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#28 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 01:57 PM

Dear Ahhangar,

Let us for now not to touch Akhunda issue. What is for sure is that we need to use all of them for our own benefit. We will need to do our best to have good relations with all powerful countries; both in the region and world. We need somehow manipulate them and use them as much as possible for our benefit.

What about Afrasiabs concern about the 4th step of my suggestion: it is just one of the options and it is not necessary that things will develop that way. First we need to achieve the first step than other things will follow.
What can be done for now?

Khorasan should be created first of all in the minds of the people, crowds/masses. How to create it and how you can achieve your goal about uniting Persian-speakers in your country?

Rumors! Rumors, rumors! It is one of the strongest tools for controlling the mood of crowds. We should somehow spread rumors among simple masses, in particular women and those who are good in spreading rumors in Afghanistan.
Now in detail:

Those Tajiks who are from Afghanistan probably have relatives and friends in Afghanistan. They need somehow contact them and simply ask If it is true that Pashtuns will be separated from the rest of Afghanistan and two countries will be created; Pashtunistan and Khorasan? or ask something like this by saying that a lot of people are speaking about it and there are some articles about this issue. Those who are our supporters in Afghanistan can help in this issue carefully without any particular emotions so that people did not think that it is their personal idea.

The idea that non Pashtuns will be living in one country will facilitate to unite them, in particular Tajiks of Afghanistan who will expect to be dominating.
At this stage it is necessary not to mention about Tajikistan or joining with Tajikistan. Let first a Khorasan be created for not-Pashtuns of Afghanistan. Why not to mention? In order to make sure that those who do not so much like Tajikistan (smaller ethnicities) were on our side.

Then Tajikistan and Khorasan will increase their relationships in many fields for a couple of years and by doing so bringing the peoples closer.
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#29 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 03:58 PM

What does the Tajiks of Uzbekistan think themselves? do they care about their langauge and identity being wiped out or simply ignore it and are happy to be uzbeks? what are their social, political, economical and cultural structures of the tajiks there? perhaps one of our friends from Tajikistan will be able to give an answer to this question. I think we in iran and afghanistan know nothing or little about the tajiks in uzbekistan.
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#30 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:57 PM

:D
[QUOTE=Dushanbe;11448]
Rumors! Rumors, rumors! It is one of the strongest tools for controlling the mood of crowds. We should somehow spread rumors among simple masses, in particular women and those who are good in spreading rumors in Afghanistan. [/QUOTE]
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#31 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 11:23 PM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;11458] :D [/QUOTE]

:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Did I write this?

:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
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#32 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 01:20 AM

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;11448]Dear Ahhangar,

Let us for now not to touch Akhunda issue. What is for sure is that we need to use all of them for our own benefit. We will need to do our best to have good relations with all powerful countries; both in the region and world. We need somehow manipulate them and use them as much as possible for our benefit.

What about Afrasiabs concern about the 4th step of my suggestion: it is just one of the options and it is not necessary that things will develop that way. First we need to achieve the first step than other things will follow.
What can be done for now?

Khorasan should be created first of all in the minds of the people, crowds/masses. How to create it and how you can achieve your goal about uniting Persian-speakers in your country?

Rumors! Rumors, rumors! It is one of the strongest tools for controlling the mood of crowds. We should somehow spread rumors among simple masses, in particular women and those who are good in spreading rumors in Afghanistan.
Now in detail:

Those Tajiks who are from Afghanistan probably have relatives and friends in Afghanistan. They need somehow contact them and simply ask If it is true that Pashtuns will be separated from the rest of Afghanistan and two countries will be created; Pashtunistan and Khorasan? or ask something like this by saying that a lot of people are speaking about it and there are some articles about this issue. Those who are our supporters in Afghanistan can help in this issue carefully without any particular emotions so that people did not think that it is their personal idea.

The idea that non Pashtuns will be living in one country will facilitate to unite them, in particular Tajiks of Afghanistan who will expect to be dominating.
At this stage it is necessary not to mention about Tajikistan or joining with Tajikistan. Let first a Khorasan be created for not-Pashtuns of Afghanistan. Why not to mention? In order to make sure that those who do not so much like Tajikistan (smaller ethnicities) were on our side.

Then Tajikistan and Khorasan will increase their relationships in many fields for a couple of years and by doing so bringing the peoples closer.[/QUOTE]


Dear Dushanbe,

I like your way of thinking.

Afghanistan is the key to unlocking the whole of Central Asia and even south Asia. It has a great potential to become the center of a dominant power in Asia. That potential is why so many forces are busy interfering within it - for they all fear the potential of that land.

Just like the Abbasid revolution started in that part of the world - and the dismantlement of the USSR - so too will the current state of states in the region change as a result of events in Afghanistan.

The ideology of Khorasan needs to be developed and spread within Afghanistan.

I see the ideology of Khorasan as being the core of uniting the Pars (Tajiks) of Afghanistan into one force. The Pars (Tajiks) of Afghanistan will be its mind, heart and blood - for without them nothing will be possible.

This ideology of Khorasan needs to be developed - that is our work. It will need to make people fall in love with it and make them want to lay their lives down or it. This is a complex task requiring immense skills of the intellect and drawing upon the experiences of accomplished politicians.

Once the idea of Khorasan is developed sufficiently and ready for marketing - of propagation - then we will need to learn about how one goes about best achieving such a task. Here again there are many sources of knowledge we can drawn from.

The CIA specialize in creating movements within countries - bringing about revolutions and changes of government - covert operations and so on. This all comes from a certain type of knowledge about mass thinking - that again we must master and then use.

Think about the countless so called revolutions that have occurred to the benefit of American interests in the world. The so called revolution in the Ukraine - Georgia - Serbia - and previous to those in Argentina - Chile - Guatamala - Iran - Haiti - and many other paces.

Close to home - think about the creation of the Taliban - using orphaned - poor kids as cannon fodder- through Qurans and other Islamic literature written by the CIA and CIA-MI6 paid and trained Mullahs. It is a masterpiece of usury.

This all requires knowledge and resources to create and implementing plans.

Questions are now raised about what would be the best and most efficient manner in gaining the resources to implement these things? Would it be best to attempt to get into the hearts of the workings of the great powers whom have the resources and power we need and to influence them to our advantages - like the Zionists are doing in Washington - or another plan is more suitable?

These are all questions that require the acquisition of vast knowledge and very advanced academic training. It is why I have recommended before that we - those of us whom are dedicated and have a sense of what the task is that lies ahead of us - to hanker down and study - reach PHD level and even higher in the great universities of the world.

PhDs in Political Science - Economics - Anthropology - Operational research - Sociology - Government - basically all of the social sciences. Also - studies about the Iranic world - all aspect of it. This is not to say that we should neglect the other sciences - for they too have their uses. We need to encourage our brothers to pursue this knowledge wherever they can.

Knowledge is power as they say !

May I ask - what is your background of study or interests in terms of study?

Ahhangar

PS. Ahhangar@googlemail.com is my email
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#33 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 09:20 PM

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;11464]


Knowledge is power as they say !
[/QUOTE]

Tavono buvad har ki dono buvad,
Zi donish dili pir barno buvad.
Says A. Firdawsi

[QUOTE=Ahhangar;11464]May I ask - what is your background of study or interests in terms of study?[/QUOTE]

I will somehow send you an email.

Cheers
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#34 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 10:43 PM

I just went through all posts brothers and found it extremely thrilling. Like in a detective movie. All these plans sound intriguing. But there was a wise voice asking (Rika Khana's, if I'm not mistaken): Do Tajiks of Uzbekistan care about all this?

Tajiks of Uzbekistan are a forgotten part of humanity. I've created a small network among them within Uzbekistan and abroad. Most of them are really indifferent to our nationalist cause and talks. It doesn't make sense to most of them how important it is to save their Persian (Tajik) identity. Yet, these guys have partially studied in Tajik schools that all but few have been closed down after the civil war unleashed in Tajikistan (1992). The war weakened their position, disillusioned them in their ambitious plans to join Tajikistan and silenced them for over a decade. There is almost no crtitical mass left in Uzbekistan to work on. Only few academics are trying to keep the sense of Tajikness alive. But they have no tools to do so.

The most practical question we can decide upon is the way to keep our language and culture alive there. They have no Persian/Tajik books to read and their withered Persian needs nutrition. I have an address in Samarqand where Tajik/Persian books could be sent over. If you have any books in Cyrillic or Persian, preferably non-political literary works, let me know and I will give you the address. Certainly, only to those who I know personally. The more books the better.

That means Tajiks in Uzbekistan lack the most basic things to survive as a nation.

I like Afrasiab's remark about Uzbekistani Tajiks' passionate awakening in the late 1980s and early 1990s. It was triggered by the nationalist movement in Dushanbe that succeeded to declare "Tajiki (Farsi)" as our official language in 1989. Tajikistan was proud of pioneering in the path of democracy paved by Gorbachev and all other CA republics followed Tajikistan's pattern. Then Samarqandi Tajik activists such as Pf. Jalal Mirsaidov and Uktam Bekmuhammadov revealed their separatism and Tajiks' irredentism, and publicly called for the return of Bukhara and Samarqand to Tajiks. Now it sounds unbelievable. But then it was tolerated even by the Butcher of Tashkent (IAK) until the war broke up in Tajikistan orchestrated by Karimov. After engaging Tajiks in their domestic war Karimov put all the activists in jail. Mirsaidov's grandson was killed on the next day after he complained about the plight of Tajiks to the famous British Ambassador Craig Murray. Hayat Ne'mat, a Tajik poet and activist, is still in home imprisonment. Baghdesarian, an Armenian supporter of Tajiks' cause, was imprisoned as well. Around 5000 Tajiks were displaced in Shahimardan district in 2000 in order to break their concentration in a single area. Tajiks' voice was suffocated and still remains so.

The situation might change only if Tajikistan would come out of its present misery and achieve a certain degree of prosperity. Before that talking about waging wars against Uzbekistan is merely a dream that will not come true without a very heavy price for Tajikistan itself. First of all, most of the Uzbekistani Tajiks are not willing to join a failed state. Secondly, Tajikistan is not in a position to order a music. Its total dependance on Uzbekistan complicates the issue further. Tashkent can suffocate Dushanbe by simply switching off its gas or power supply for as long as it pleases.

But it doesn't mean that we have to sit and wait until our siblings die out in our own lands - Samarqand, Bukhara, Surkhandarya, even Tashkent. We can help them by sending books, looking for them on the entire globe and making friends with them, teaching them Persian (that's what I'm doing in an Uzbekistani forum), keeping them interested in their own Persian heritage... Little by little a network will take shape within the country that would act accordingly when it is needed. Time is not on our side right now, but no doubt, it will be one day.
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#35 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 10:59 PM

I'm not sure how the issue of Hazaras appeared on this thread, but I reckon, generalising any ethnicity or nation as 'evil' or 'good' is not realistic.

One of our Hazara brothers had left a comment under a Youtube clip. He was bitter at Tajiks and I was well aware of its context. It wasn't difficult to make him take his words back. I just told him: "My dear brother. I am a Persian (Tajik) of Khorasanzamin and I do not see any reason for our enmity. We are of the same stock, the same past and present and our future will be the same. I forgive whatever evil things you've done to me and expect the same from you. We speak the same language and you are not alien to me. You are my Persian brother."

That was enough to turn him into a very meek well-natured ally.

Apart from that, I have dozens of Hazara friends and any family could envy our fraternity.

Whoever speaks my language as his/her mother tongue is my brother/sister, be it Hazara, Uzbek or whoever else. My nation is my language.
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#36 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 02:48 AM

Very well done, Darius Jan. :)

This kind of attitude will lead to fraternity and unity of all Persian speaking people of Afghanistan, and heal the superficial wounds. Superficial, since obviously the hatred did not run so deep among Hazaras, unlike Pashtuns, but was simply a defensive reaction to hostile and demeaning comments from some destructive and egotistic people.

Ahhangar and others, please remember that by hating and exclusing Hazaras you are only pleasing Pashtuns who, being a minority in their own country, need your divisions to thrive and oppress you.

[QUOTE=Darius;11525] One of our Hazara brothers had left a comment under a Youtube clip. He was bitter at Tajiks and I was well aware of its context. It wasn't difficult to make him take his words back. I just told him: "My dear brother. I am a Persian (Tajik) of Khorasanzamin and I do not see any reason for our enmity. We are of the same stock, the same past and present and our future will be the same. I forgive whatever evil things you've done to me and expect the same from you. We speak the same language and you are not alien to me. You are my Persian brother."

That was enough to turn him into a very meek well-natured ally. [/QUOTE]
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#37 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:06 AM

It is all very nice to be optimistic and talk of pies in the sky guys.

The reality is that the people we call Tajiks - be they in Afghanistan or anywhere else - are not united themselves and have fought against each other in recent history - in bloody conflicts. Lets concentrate on uniting ourselves in our respective countries - and then worry about other people.

Language alone is not enough to bring about the changes we need for regaining full sovereignty .

It is my viewpoint based upon the history of Afghanistan.


Ahhangar
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#38 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:27 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;11530]Very well done, Darius Jan. :)

This kind of attitude will lead to fraternity and unity of all Persian speaking people of Afghanistan, and heal the superficial wounds. Superficial, since obviously the hatred did not run so deep among Hazaras, unlike Pashtuns, but was simply a defensive reaction to hostile and demeaning comments from some destructive and egotistic people.
[/QUOTE]

Actually I did not read everything in order to see if anybody said bad things towards Hazara peoples. Unjustified hatred does not bring any good to anybody. The more friends we have the better. Anyways, my principle is that we all should live in harmony and peace without causing harm to others without any reason.
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#39 User is offline   Hafez Icon

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 05:21 PM

[QUOTE=Dushanbe;11394]Dear Ahhangar,

My project about Samarkand and Bhukhoro is very long, but I will try to brief it so that it was not like a salad.

1. First we need to create our Khorasan. The tribal areas should be given to Pashtuns so that they created their Pashtunistan by adding those tribal arias from Pakistan.
2. Then, we should combine both Tajik lands into one state. I do not think that Hazara people will want independent and become isolated between Talibans and us, so we can give them autonomy within our country. And, probably, educated Pashtuns will not want to live under Taliban regime, so we will Persianise them very quickly.
3. A bigger country becomes a strategic country and most developed countries would like to cooperate to us and we will have more opportunity for development.
4. After some year when we will be more developed and on our foot with confidence, we shall take another steps:
- We need somehow to destabilize our neighboring country Uzbekistan. We know that there is Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan that wants to fight with Uzbekistan and make an Islamic country. We need secretly create camps and train them, make them more extremist and send them to Uzbekistan. After that we need secretly sponsor them and supply with weapons. Let there be some conflicts or a civil war. I believe this will be a long war. After some years of war when the country becomes weak, we shall stop supporting islamists, so that they were slowly destroyed.
- At the same time we shall increase the self-awareness between Tajiks and create some ethnic conflicts so that people could pay attention to their differences.
- When we will have a lot of supporters within Uzbekistan we shall invade Uzbekistan and take back our Samarkand and Bukhoro regions and kick out ethnic Uzbeks from there.
I tried to make it brief

So, what do you think about my project?[/QUOTE]

My bro,

I should say you are no better than Talibans and Terrorists! What a bad plan you have! This will not lead to good consequences! Better change your ideas and plans.

Bani odam a'zoi yakdigarand,
Ki dar ofarinish zi yak gavharand!
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#40 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 05:40 AM

Hafez-e Gerami,

Regarding the last part, I think Dushanbe was joking. Or maybe not? :D



Pors.

[QUOTE=Hafez;11549]My bro,

I should say you are no better than Talibans and Terrorists! What a bad plan you have! This will not lead to good consequences! Better change your ideas and plans.

Bani odam a'zoi yakdigarand,
Ki dar ofarinish zi yak gavharand![/QUOTE]
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