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Monomaniacal Disease of Afghans Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Khorasanpur Icon

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 05:22 AM

Monomaniacal Disease of Afghans


I dont know exactly where my detestation for the word Afghan takes root. Perhaps its because Im Hazara and to Hazaras Awgho brings to mind perversion, oppression, violent aggression, forceful removals, massacres, and all of their atrocious crimes. Many optimistic people who do not mind compromising their beliefs and values all for the sake of an illusionary peace might not like the way I think or write but why should I be forced to censor myself? We have endured so much and have ignored far too much. In the world that was carved out for us, we can no longer be politically correct. The truth is that to many other people in the country and around the region, the words Afghan or Awghan have the same negative connotation.



In the history of Iran, the darkest and most barbaric time for them was when Mahmud and Ashraf Afghan utterly destroyed and plundered Isfahan and other cities and massacred the people. Bodies lay dead on the street like discarded dolls, ruins of buildings smeared with the blood of children, valuables in any form or shape stolen. Irans suffering lasted 10 to15 years comparatively a short amount of time than the other atrocities committed by the Afghans in other places but it remained unparalleled. Historians have all described Mahmud and Ashraf Afghan and their barbaric tribes of Awghans as more brutal than Changiz Khan.



For the people and tribes of Chatral, Pakistan, who were living amongst the Awghans, the name Afghan and/or Pathan for them, too, is very unpleasant. The Pathans insatiably stole the lands of the people of Chatral and murdered them indiscriminately. Never had they seen such disregard for human life as the Pathans clawed their way through the very lives of the people, leaving a trail of injustice and blood behind them. And especially among Uzbeks and Tajiks and other ethnicities of Afghanistan, the names Afghan and Awghan leaves an abhorrent taste in their mouths. It is a name that makes them cringe and sends shivers down the backs of the older generations, those that recall a time when the international community had their backs turned on the little country, thereby giving the Afghans free access to carry out their malicious and inhumane massacres.



I would like to make clear that I have no intentions of misleading my readers. I am not like other fellow writers and advocates who are satisfied with just pointing out their opponents bad deeds while ignoring everyone elses. If I were to encounter a group of my own people madly chanting the names of Mongols and Changiz Khan and praising their crimes the way Awghans praise their own, then I would act the same towards them and denounce their inhumane praises. No matter if its my own people, as a human being and as someone from this region, I would point out their wrongdoings, too.



At this point, however, there is a difference that needs to be distinctively clear. If Changiz Khans crimes were to repeat itself in any shape or form in the 21st Century, then there is a greater sense of savagery and barbarism involved in the atrocities than when they were first committed in the 13th Century. The reason for this is because when Changiz Khan burned down and utterly destroyed Parwan, Samarqand, Balkh, Bamyan, and Herat things were not any better in other parts of the world. Though he might have been the worst, Changiz Khan was just another conqueror in a long line of such rulers: Vlad the Impaler, Attila the Hun, Timorelang, Babur, Napoleon even, the list goes on. Though its no justification, the fact remains that Changiz Khans reign was not one of a kind, in fact it was a sort of the norm during such times. Such crimes were not judged back then the way they are now. Which is why, whenever such crimes are repeated by others in the 21st Century, then they are, as stated before, done with a greater sense of savagery and barbarism and cruelty. When Mullah Omar Afghan burned down Parwan and destroyed Bamyam and massacred people in Balkh and looted wherever he could it was all done in the 21st Century when the world had left the dark ages. Mullah Omar Afghan committed these crimes in the 21st Century when the rest of the world has adopted a more humanistic outlook when there are human and individual rights groups, gay rights, women rights, and even animal rights. Democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and basic human rights have become the new norm. These things did not exist 800 years ago but now the world gives so much attention to these ideas, especially to human rights. However, the sadistic Afghan mentality in the 21st Century does not accommodate such ideas.



The atrocities committed under the name of Afghan that comprise the history of mankind have all been buried with their victims. If the people were to count all the numerous crimes committed under that foul name, in an unbiased and honest manner, then it would be enough to bury the name of Afghan along with its shameful history. Families were torn a part, fathers and sons murdered in cold blood, daughters and wives raped and kidnapped, children starved and beaten to death, families lost their homes and land and forced to move around the country like chess pieces across the board. Just acknowledging such horrendous acts would be powerful enough to fully convince our fellow countrymen to avoid associating ourselves with such a despicable and deplorable identity for millions of years to come. In fact, if there is any justice at all, the name Afghana would not be and should not be identified and applied to the victims of Afghana. It is cruel to force the identity and name of the oppressor upon the oppressed! How appropriate let alone fair and humane would it be if those that had suffered under the Mongol rule to be called Mongols themselves? Would a mother name her children after the man who murdered her parents?



The land that we know today as Afghanistan was founded on bloodbath and falsehood and established through massacres, looting, and the forceful removal of people. And through trickery, all the people who live in the country are wrongfully and viciously stamped as Afghans. But it does not even stop with the people. The name of the currency is even called Afghani. Most of the national institutions like Afghan Film, Afghan Aryana Airlines, Afghan TV and Radio stations, Afghan news as well as cultural aspects such as afghan dishes, clothing, music, sports, etc. they all have the name Afghan applied to them front or back, like a leash around the neck. Isnt it madness and wickedness to have this Afghan Afghan attachment? What kind of glory and pride does this name Afghan have that it should repeat itself? The horrendous reputation of this name is evident throughout the country and yet the Awghans wish to hold unto its heritage as if it came with a good history and a sense of pride. Not only that, but they shove it in peoples faces, forcing it upon them.



A fellow Hazara, Habib Mirzah, who is a very dear friend, has opened an online blog which he named Kharabat with the attachment of Afghan. The freedom fighter in Urozgan who fought in the resistance against the Awghans the same one who lost inch by agonizing inch to the intruders how would he have felt if he knew 100 years after his struggle to protect his land and the best children of his ethnicity that his people would adopt the name of the very enemies he fought against. If Shireen and those who fought along side her knew 100 years after their struggle and plight that their best brothers would forget the Awghan tribal crimes, how would they have felt? The anguish of such a betrayal would have surely led them to suicide. Those atrocities and injustices that they went through did not end 100 years ago but had instead continued to this day in different levels. Id love the Roman who would have joined Spartacus to fight against the Romans. I would have applauded the Mongol who would have joined the resistance against Changiz Khan. And my heart is full of sincerity and kindness towards the German who would have joined the resistance of Poland and fought against the fascism of Hitler. But my concerns and worries lies on something else. I am scared that though I am a Hazara I would have, for some reason, joined the savage army of the Awghans in Urozgan. I am scared to be a Tajik who would join Mullah Omar Afghan and help destroy Shamali and Balkh. I am scared to be a black slave and fight against Spartacus in favor of Rome. Im scared to be a resistant of Bagdad and join hands with Halako Khan.



My purpose or intention is not to have any animosity towards Afghans. Most of these historical incidents and recorded events became a part of history; we can not change any of it. But the point is exactly this that the memories and struggles have all become part of history and have been stored away on bookshelves. And if the looting and atrocities in Shamali, Balkh, and Herat become part of history, then the aggression of Afghans and the Afghanization of others should also become a part of history. If you, Afghans, ask us to forget about the crimes and wrongdoings then you, Afghans, should stop the Afghanization as well. Who would have the heart to throw mud or dirt on the blood of people who sought justice and freedom? For 100 years, they were the victims and what they went through is irreversible and we are being asked to forget the blood they shed and the lives they gave. And instead we should praise aggression and brutality? We should praise the oppressors? If my people and others who had suffered, if we are generous enough to forget the last 100 years of atrocities and tragedy that befell our people by the hands of Awghans, then isnt it right to expect the Awghans to stop the aggressions and to expect that the crimes of Abdul Rahman Khan, Nadir Khan and Mullah Omar Afghan to not be repeated? I dont think its a big expectation by the victims who suffered under the hands of these people. I dont think its too much to ask for.



Repeating Afghan Afghan is monomaniacal, like a madman insane with the love of his own criminality. To wrongfully entitle Zahir Shah, an inheritor of criminality, as Baba e Mellat (Father of the Nation), making the national anthem in Pashto, replacing Farsi terms with Pashto, and so on and so forth all of these things are done to try and validate their ideas of superiority over others. They demand more privilege because of these things. In the past 250 years, this ethnicity has only pushed the wheels of savagery and criminality; they have managed to incorporate the mentality of barbarism and have produced nothing but Ahmad Khan Abdalis, Abdul Rahman Khans, Nadir Khans, Mullar Omar Afghans, etc. Other than that, I dont see any sense of pride or any thing desirable at all that comes with Afghan. It has provided nothing good to the world and, in turn, the people have nothing to feel good about. For the people of the country, the word and identity Afghan only brings to mind dark memories and reminds them of the massacres and looting. Even to the rest of the world, the name now conjures up images of Taliban, drug cultivation and smuggling, savagery, backwardness, murders, terrorism etc.


And so I ask you all: What possible good does this name carry that we are not aware of?


http://afghanmirror....d.com/id31.html
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Posted 20 August 2008 - 01:57 AM

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What possible good does this name carry that we are not aware of?

Nothing!
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Posted 20 August 2009 - 11:46 PM

Why can't North and South of Afghanistan just part if the hatred is truly THIS huge? Why?
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 07:03 AM

View PostMadina, on 21 August 2009 - 12:46 AM, said:

Why can't North and South of Afghanistan just part if the hatred is truly THIS huge? Why?


good question. Afghanistan is already disintegrated (de facto). the only thing that is keeping Afghanistan together is the weak central government (de jure). once this government gets destroyed we will see balkanization in Afghanistan. The North and the South has two distinct identities today. The North is democratic while the South is an Emirate ran by the Taliban. The North is literate and progressive while the South has kept their status quo and the majority are still illiterate. Two distinct civilizations exists in this unholy country and it should be partitioned. till we are part of this Afghanistan we will not experience peace and stability.
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 12:06 PM

^ When I asked my uncle why we can't part, he said because that's an illetrate thought. Because Iran might use Northern part of Afghanistan against the Southern part, and Pakistan might do it the other way round. He said it will only increase problems as Pashtuns and Tajiks will fight over what's their right and Hazara's also might want to form an Indepedent State and even Uzbek's might add their area to Uzbekistan. So if I have to believe my uncle, we first have to stabalize Afghanistan completely and then think of separation because these are times of war and very dangerous times as well.
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Posted 22 August 2009 - 07:21 PM

View PostMadina, on 21 August 2009 - 01:06 PM, said:

^ When I asked my uncle why we can't part, he said because that's an illetrate thought. Because Iran might use Northern part of Afghanistan against the Southern part, and Pakistan might do it the other way round. He said it will only increase problems as Pashtuns and Tajiks will fight over what's their right and Hazara's also might want to form an Indepedent State and even Uzbek's might add their area to Uzbekistan. So if I have to believe my uncle, we first have to stabalize Afghanistan completely and then think of separation because these are times of war and very dangerous times as well.


Afghanistan will not become stable, this is an illogical concept. This country from the beginning was instable and caused a 250 years crisis for Khorasanis and we will not be able to fix this until the concept of Afghanistan is completely destroyed. Illiteracy was also a reason used by the Serbs in Yugoslavia but after Balkanization there peace and stability was restored and all of those little nations are enjoying peace and progress. I am not saying lets make 10 little nations out of Afghanistan but make two separate states: an independent democratic Khorasan and an Islamic fundamentalist Talib Pashtunistan. The only way Pashtuns can become democratic is to isolate them by putting them in a country separate from others and after that intense political quarantine should happen. Also how is Iran going to use us? have they used Tajikistan in any negative way? of course we will have close relations with Iran and Tajikistan because we share a common culture, language, identity, and history and we should create an economic and cultural union between these nations. Hazaras are not that dumb to create their own nation. hazarajat is dependent on Tajik areas and cities and they will not survive without Balkh Herat Kabul and other rich regions populated by the Tajiks. Uzbeks will still be a small minority and there will be no way for them to join Uzbekistan because Faryab and Jowzjan borders Turkmenistan not Uzbekistan (Balkh and Samangan shares a border with Uzbekistan and the interesting part is that on both sides of this border the majority of the population are ethnic Tajiks especially between Hayratan and Termez). In an independent Khorasan we will make parts of Hazaristan and Nooristan semi-autonomous so they can stay happy. There will be difficulties but in the long run this is the only alternative which can bring stability in this war torn region.
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به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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Posted 28 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

^ Iran and Tajikistan both also face troubles within their own countries so as you see no nation is really satisfied with their government. And by the way, Northern Alliance even got more power than Hamid Karzai and if they aren't doing us any good (despite of being non-Pashtuns) how can we expect any good from anyone else? The treatment many Afghans got in Iran was very heart breaking for me to see and especially on Ariana when they showed how many youngsters of Herat said how they were given drugs by Iranians and then sent back to Afghanistan, I lost my interest in Iran. Tajikistan just got out of a civil war and I doubt they want much to do with the Northerners of Afghanistan. As far I see politics of Afghanistan I notice that Hazara's don't share same thoughts as Tajiks, especially when it comes to the presence of the Western troops as Tajiks want them in Afghanistan but Hazara's don't, so I have got my doubts about what Hazara's truly would want.

There are even many Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan who I don't think will let Northern part go and Ghazni in fact is dominated by both Pashtuns and Hazara's. Even if Pashtunistan does exist then I doubt that will be the end of troubles for us; Look at Pakistan-Bangladesh, Pakistan-Baluchistan, Pakistan-India, India-Kashmir, etcetera, etcetera and etcetera. Know what I mean?
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Posted 29 August 2009 - 02:49 AM

View PostMadina, on 29 August 2009 - 12:16 AM, said:

^ Iran and Tajikistan both also face troubles within their own countries so as you see no nation is really satisfied with their government. And by the way, Northern Alliance even got more power than Hamid Karzai and if they aren't doing us any good (despite of being non-Pashtuns) how can we expect any good from anyone else? The treatment many Afghans got in Iran was very heart breaking for me to see and especially on Ariana when they showed how many youngsters of Herat said how they were given drugs by Iranians and then sent back to Afghanistan, I lost my interest in Iran. Tajikistan just got out of a civil war and I doubt they want much to do with the Northerners of Afghanistan. As far I see politics of Afghanistan I notice that Hazara's don't share same thoughts as Tajiks, especially when it comes to the presence of the Western troops as Tajiks want them in Afghanistan but Hazara's don't, so I have got my doubts about what Hazara's truly would want.

There are even many Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan who I don't think will let Northern part go and Ghazni in fact is dominated by both Pashtuns and Hazara's. Even if Pashtunistan does exist then I doubt that will be the end of troubles for us; Look at Pakistan-Bangladesh, Pakistan-Baluchistan, Pakistan-India, India-Kashmir, etcetera, etcetera and etcetera. Know what I mean?


The Northern Alliance was in power until 2004 and after that the true policy makers have been Pashtuns. The only sector controlled by Tajiks today is the military and the intelligence. When the Northern Alliance was in power we saw reconstruction and most of Afghanistan was stable but once they were removed the government failed in keeping that stability. Today the only progressive and stable region is controlled by a Northern Alliance Jamiati Tajik commander, Ustad Atta Mohammad Noor. Ismail Khan also brought progress in Herat but once he was removed Herat became instable.

the things that happened in Iran happens in every country and it was based on historic and economic reasons. first of all when the Afghanistanis went to Iran they received less pay for work and most employers hired Afghanistanis instead of Iranis and this pissed most Iranians off. especially during the 1980s when Iran was in a war and it just came out of a revolution which ravaged its economy. Today the same is happening in Afghanistan. Chinese, Pakistanis, Indians and other people are coming into Afghanistan and they were stealing the jobs and this is pissing everyone off in Afghanistan and jobless Afghanistanis abuse most of these foreign workers. The historic reasons is that most Afghanistanis would troduce themselves as "Afghan" and Iranians have very bad memories of what Afghans/Pashtuns did when the Hotakis invaded Isfahan and other regions in modern Iran. I have been to Iran and if you introduce yourself as a Tajik or a Parsi Zaban they will treat you differently. I have experienced this and it is our own fault for introducing ourselves as Afghans.

Today Hazaras and Tajiks have accepted these foreign forces lol. The only people who aren't accepting these forces are the Pashtuns. If the Hazaras did not accept them then they would have rebelled like the Pashtuns in the south. What Hazaras want is semi-autonomy and we will give it to them. Hazara leaders are well aware that an independent Hazaristan will not solve their problems and their only ally are their Tajik neighbors.

Pashtuns today in Northern Afghanistan are a minority and most of them are nomads. They are all chauvinists whom are detested by the natives. This is why the natives in the north use the word "Naqeleen" for these Pashtuns and when the Taliban invaded Northern Afghanistan most of these Naqels allied themselves with the Taliban. In 2001, when the Taliban regime was defeated most of these Naqeleen fled northern Afghanistan or got killed by the natives (as an act of vengeance). Ghazni city is still a Tajik city and the villages around it is inhabited by Hazaras.

our trouble will not finish but most of our problems will be solved and we will have autonomy, freedom, and independence.
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Posted 29 August 2009 - 04:07 PM

^ Correct me if I am mistaken but isn't Khan a Pashtun last name? And I got many relatives in Herat and they say everything is going very well over there and that in fact many Herati's support Karzai with this election. And if I am not wrong then mayor of Takhar is also a Pashtun and Takhar is believed to be one of the safest provinces at the moment. And about the Northern Alliance, first thing they did was kill, rape and loot thousands of people of whom majority even were innocent. I can forgive anything but raping women is weakest anyone can do and none deserves to be called a man when he attacks a woman out of so called revenge attack. No matter what ethnic, what reason and what goal. And about Iran, they even curse at Hazara's while they know very well what Hazara's have been through. Now I have no idea what Pashtuns have done to them but I am sure they ain't that foolish that they don't know that Afghanistan also got plenty of non-Pashtuns. There are indeed Indians in Afghanistan but Afghans love Indians and you might know it yourself. Pakistan is being cursed for the reason you already know so I won't even start about them, and I have never heard anyone curse any Chinese so I won't say anything again.

And Ramzan Bashardost is against the Western presence and because he got majority Hazara supporters, then so are Hazara's. Hazara's have been through lot of troubles in the past and I understand they won't protest or anything because they might land in trouble. Again. Bashardost is by the way also being supported by Pashtuns as well and few of them are in my friends' circle. And I know Pashtuns are minority in North but because of the troubles in the South many Pashtuns keep moving to the North, so I won't be surprised if Pashtuns once again become majority even in the North. And as I said before already, I got many family members and relatives in Afghanistan and especially in Mazar and Herat and from them I heard that before there used to be a lot of ethical tension, but the new generation doesn't give a damn about ethnics any more. They just want peace and that's what I want too and even my uncle who visited Afghanistan said you will notice from little to no tension between ethnics. And about Ghazni, all those Ghazni people I met so far are either Hazara's or Pashtuns, so thanks for the information because I didn't know Tajiks live there as well.
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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:24 AM

View PostMadina, on 29 August 2009 - 05:07 PM, said:

^ Correct me if I am mistaken but isn't Khan a Pashtun last name? And I got many relatives in Herat and they say everything is going very well over there and that in fact many Herati's support Karzai with this election. And if I am not wrong then mayor of Takhar is also a Pashtun and Takhar is believed to be one of the safest provinces at the moment. And about the Northern Alliance, first thing they did was kill, rape and loot thousands of people of whom majority even were innocent. I can forgive anything but raping women is weakest anyone can do and none deserves to be called a man when he attacks a woman out of so called revenge attack. No matter what ethnic, what reason and what goal. And about Iran, they even curse at Hazara's while they know very well what Hazara's have been through. Now I have no idea what Pashtuns have done to them but I am sure they ain't that foolish that they don't know that Afghanistan also got plenty of non-Pashtuns. There are indeed Indians in Afghanistan but Afghans love Indians and you might know it yourself. Pakistan is being cursed for the reason you already know so I won't even start about them, and I have never heard anyone curse any Chinese so I won't say anything again.

And Ramzan Bashardost is against the Western presence and because he got majority Hazara supporters, then so are Hazara's. Hazara's have been through lot of troubles in the past and I understand they won't protest or anything because they might land in trouble. Again. Bashardost is by the way also being supported by Pashtuns as well and few of them are in my friends' circle. And I know Pashtuns are minority in North but because of the troubles in the South many Pashtuns keep moving to the North, so I won't be surprised if Pashtuns once again become majority even in the North. And as I said before already, I got many family members and relatives in Afghanistan and especially in Mazar and Herat and from them I heard that before there used to be a lot of ethical tension, but the new generation doesn't give a damn about ethnics any more. They just want peace and that's what I want too and even my uncle who visited Afghanistan said you will notice from little to no tension between ethnics. And about Ghazni, all those Ghazni people I met so far are either Hazara's or Pashtuns, so thanks for the information because I didn't know Tajiks live there as well.


Khan is a Turko-Mongolian term which was adopted by Pashtuns. I am well aware of Herat’s situation and I have contacts with many Heratis who are very active there. Just a few months ago a group of Heratis stormed Afghan Millat’s headquarters and they burnt the whole building. If you watch stations like Tolo instead of Ariana Bayat or Payam Afghan then you would become aware of all of these incidents and problems happening there. The main reason why Afghan Millat is very weak there is because of Iran. Iran has successfully blocked Pashtun nationalism in western Afghanistan and Afghan Millat failed in Pashtunizing Herat. Have you seen the names of the districts in Herat? Do you think Pashtun Zarghun, Shindand, Pashtun Kot, and Toorghundi are historical terms used for those regions? Takhar is not controlled by a Pashtun but it is controlled by General Daud, a powerful and influential NA commander. Before you accuse the NA of rape and murder please provide your sources because what you just wrote is propaganda published and spread by RAWA and other anti NA organizations in Pakistan. If NA committed those crimes then Tajiks and other northerners wouldn’t be standing behind them and they would be joining others. We should be thankful that the NA especially the Tajik branch partially liberated us from Pashtunization and gave us life after 260 years. I am not saying everyone in the NA were angels but you cannot judge a whole group based on one story or what one or two soldiers did. If you hate rape so much then you should study your social history once and you will see how many times our people were raped by Afghanistan’s National leaders like Nader Shah, Daud Khan, Muhammad Gul Momand, Amanullah Khan, Abdur Rahman Khan and many others. The things that Happened to Hazaras in Iran were rare and the majority lived peacefully there for decades. We should be thankful of Iran for keeping us in their country for 3 decades without receiving 1 penny from the west and UN; Iran kept us and spent money from their own budget. Not everyone in Iran is an expert on their history or on Afghanistan’s demographics. The reason why they thought everyone was Pashtun was because every single Afghanistani identified them with the Afghan identity and because Iranians used Afghan instead of Pashtun or Pakhtun to identify Pashtuns. This is why Mirwais, Mahmoud, Ashraf were known as Mirwais Afghan, Mahmoud Afghan…etc We shouldn’t forget the crimes committed by these Afghanistanis who went to Iran. The whole drug trade in Iran is because of these Afghanistanis and many Iranian girls were raped by Afghanistani men in Iran. You would never see discrimination from an Iranian scholar, writer, poet and historian. Today many of our professionals studied in Iran and they are successful journalists, writers, poets, and linguists.
The reason why Indians were so nice to us was because they received billions of dollars from the UN to keep these refugees. This is no surprise to me.
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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:41 AM

View PostMadina, on 29 August 2009 - 05:07 PM, said:

^ Correct me if I am mistaken but isn't Khan a Pashtun last name? And I got many relatives in Herat and they say everything is going very well over there and that in fact many Herati's support Karzai with this election. And if I am not wrong then mayor of Takhar is also a Pashtun and Takhar is believed to be one of the safest provinces at the moment. And about the Northern Alliance, first thing they did was kill, rape and loot thousands of people of whom majority even were innocent. I can forgive anything but raping women is weakest anyone can do and none deserves to be called a man when he attacks a woman out of so called revenge attack. No matter what ethnic, what reason and what goal. And about Iran, they even curse at Hazara's while they know very well what Hazara's have been through. Now I have no idea what Pashtuns have done to them but I am sure they ain't that foolish that they don't know that Afghanistan also got plenty of non-Pashtuns. There are indeed Indians in Afghanistan but Afghans love Indians and you might know it yourself. Pakistan is being cursed for the reason you already know so I won't even start about them, and I have never heard anyone curse any Chinese so I won't say anything again.

And Ramzan Bashardost is against the Western presence and because he got majority Hazara supporters, then so are Hazara's. Hazara's have been through lot of troubles in the past and I understand they won't protest or anything because they might land in trouble. Again. Bashardost is by the way also being supported by Pashtuns as well and few of them are in my friends' circle. And I know Pashtuns are minority in North but because of the troubles in the South many Pashtuns keep moving to the North, so I won't be surprised if Pashtuns once again become majority even in the North. And as I said before already, I got many family members and relatives in Afghanistan and especially in Mazar and Herat and from them I heard that before there used to be a lot of ethical tension, but the new generation doesn't give a damn about ethnics any more. They just want peace and that's what I want too and even my uncle who visited Afghanistan said you will notice from little to no tension between ethnics. And about Ghazni, all those Ghazni people I met so far are either Hazara's or Pashtuns, so thanks for the information because I didn't know Tajiks live there as well.


Ramazan Bashardost is not against Western presence. He even claimed that he would join the US and would invade Pakistan with them on TOLO TV. Hazaras are more content with the presence of the western forces in Afghanistan because they feel secure with them protecting Hazaras from the Pashtun-Taliban. This is why, westerners travel throughout central Afghanistan without one bodyguard. The only reason why bashardost is being supported by some Pashtuns is because Bashardost is being used by Pashtuns. You should see his tent in Kabul. It is covered with pictures of Pashtuns and there are no pictures of Hazaras or Tajiks on his tent. He also claims to be a spiritual descendant of Mirwais and Ahmad Khan Abdali. He even claimed that he would invade Isfahan like Mirwais Hotaki lol and he would kill Iran and Pakistan’s president. Most intellectuals in Afghanistan call Bashardost “bashardost Deewana” and his claims and goals have no credibility to a literate and aware citizen who lives in Afghanistan. He is very emotional and is unable to control and govern Afghanistan. Pashtuns are not moving to the north and the government forcefully tried to build a few settlements in the north for these displaced Pashtuns but most of them were sent to the south once they arrived there. The only Pashtun group which resisted was in Takhar one year ago and the local commander slaughtered them. I am not against humanity but these nomads had it coming.
I don’t know where you get your information from. Mazar is the center of Tajik Nationalism today and most of the youth are nationalists. The main force that has given momentum to our nationalism is the youth. If you travel into Afghanistan you will see how serious this ethnic thing is. Everything is segregated into Farsi and Pashto, even the schools nowadays. Afghanistan is not heading towards Peace and we will witness another civil war and this one will finish off Afghanistan for good. This country is not for our interest and we should never support its survival. We will see in the coming weeks that the North will also become instable and hapoefully at the end our Khorasan will be formed again. Ghazni was and is a Tajik city and the whole region belonged to us for thousands of years before 150 years ago when Pashtunization started in eastern and southern Afghanistan. There are Tajiks throughout southern Afghanistan and they are not a few but large minorities scattered throughout the south. Tajiks are still the majority in cities like Gardez and Urgon.
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Posted 03 September 2009 - 11:52 PM

^ I said rape is a disgrace no matter by whom it started and by whom it ended but it has to end somewhere, otherwise this will go on forever. And why is Iran interfering with Herat anyway? And how come Bashardost is being used by Pashtuns while he himself admires Pashtun leaders? Maybe he is using Pashtuns himself? And I am very sure somewhere in a debate he had said that Afghans should stand on their own feet, without any help from the West. And from different people I hear all ethnics are living in peace in Afghanistan in North, so I am not so sure any more. And yeah I knew Tajiks also were in South but I never knew we were in such large numbers there. What happened to those in South anyway?
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 06:05 PM

View PostMadina, on 03 September 2009 - 11:52 PM, said:

^ I said rape is a disgrace no matter by whom it started and by whom it ended but it has to end somewhere, otherwise this will go on forever. And why is Iran interfering with Herat anyway? And how come Bashardost is being used by Pashtuns while he himself admires Pashtun leaders? Maybe he is using Pashtuns himself? And I am very sure somewhere in a debate he had said that Afghans should stand on their own feet, without any help from the West. And from different people I hear all ethnics are living in peace in Afghanistan in North, so I am not so sure any more. And yeah I knew Tajiks also were in South but I never knew we were in such large numbers there. What happened to those in South anyway?


Gul Aghas analysis is flawed and youd be better off not listening to online revolutionaries who will accomplish nothing in real life. the very conception of an independent khorasan exists only online in the minds of tajiks who confuse legitimate claims of oppression with exterimist and ignorant conclusions. The same people (maybe not gul agha himself) who insult Pashtuns online but yet hide behind online aliases because they are cowards.

I am not disputing the history of pashtunization, nor the crimes of Pashtun leaders. That is a matter of record, a matter of history, which cannot be disputed.

However, his analysis and understanding of the last 20 yrs, and his present analysis is so stupid it defies logic. I dont know where to begin. Whether its his conclusion that the NA were not responsible for systemic crimes during the 90s civil war, or the stupid notion that a northern khorasan state will be allowed for one second to remain independent whether by Iran or Russia. The man, actually refers to Tajikistan as an example of Irans benevolent nature, completely ignoring 150 years of Russian subservience in transoxiana.

Somehow he thinks Uzbeks, and Hazaras, having rebelled against Pashtun leadership will hold hands and sing kumbaya, and somehow he thinks the Russians or the Iranians will have no designs on this landlocked territory.

Somehow, Gul Agha claims that Tajiks dont have power, but then casually mentions that they control the military and the intelligence. Madina jan, how stupid does this sentence sound to you? Then he has the nerve to mention how many good things were done when they ran the show until 2004. Of course he doesnt mention that the entire economic and social elite of the country come from the north. Sure, there are Pashtuns in positions of power, but they are a marriage of convienice. Do you think Ahmad Wali Karzai and "Marshall" Fahim talk about pashtuns and tajiks when they get together to divide their spoils?

Somehow the north is the abode of literacy and civilization, but yet they have warlords, drug running, poverty, corruption and prostitution. Is this Pashtuns fault? Did Dostum and Atta magically squash their beef>?

All non Pashtuns have is hatred for Pashtuns to unite them. 15 yrs ago Tajiks were massacring Hazaras, and Uzbeks were switching sides like underwear but yet, Gul Agha will have us believe that the North is one harmonious homogenous environment. People like him appeal to ignorant and uneducated people looking for a crux, but in any debate, they will get their asss handed to them any day of the week.


What these pseudo scholars fail to realize is that the same imperial designs which left ancient Khorassan fragmented and subject to Pashtun rule, dealt us a savage blow as well. Afghanistan was forced to be a buffer zone by the Russians and British, and it was in their interest to create a nation like ours from the fronteirs of multiple empires. Yes, some Pashtuns benefitted from this arrangement (Muhamadzais/Durranis), but not all. I have an entire nation of brothers who were separated from me. So I was dealt a wrong hand too, because believe me, what Pashtun would want non Pashtuns over their own brothers from Lar aw Bar Pakhtunkhwa?

He has the nerve to mention Amanullah, who freed the Hazaras from slavery, the same Hazaras that FOUGHT FOR HIM, the same Amanullah that accepted hundreds of thousands of Uzbeks, Tajiks and Turkomans who fled the communist takeover. Like it or not a Pashtun King is the reason your last name doesnt end in Ov and you havent lost your Islamic faith. The same Pashtun Kings that used Farsi for 300 yrs at the expense of our language, we know have to pay the price for these crimes, even though it was ONE TRIBE out of THOUSANDS. And yet they still cry about language rights.

You want to liberate khorassan? Liberate Samarkand and Bokhara first, "warrior" before you start talking about Gardez and Ghazni. Ghazni if anything is split between Pakhtuns and Hazaras. Your Fahim cant even leave his neighbourhood without an assassination attempt, and you want to take Ghazni lol?
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 06:12 PM

btw i recall a several links detailing credible 3rd party human rights reports listing the crimes of the various mujahideen groups, including the shura e nazar, with detailed evidence of top down hierarchal command structure and systemic crimes being commited, and that SAME THREAD WAS DELETED AND THE USER BANNED,

I recall a user here who made a thread CRITICIZING IN DETAIL LATIF PEDRAMS FEDERALISM APPROACH AND THE TOPIC WAS DELETED

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 09:10 PM

^ I agree on some parts over there and that's what I meant to say as well. Northern Alliance isn't doing too well in the North and many young girls joined prostituetion because of extreme poverty, and even Bacha Bazi has become common in places like Mazar and others. Gul Agha also said Northern Alliance gave us life after 300 years or so, so I don't get what all this fuss is about? It was besides a Pashtun named Ashraf Ghani who made Afghan economists do well and compared to South, North is doing brilliantly well so we shouldn't even complain. North also facing it's own problems, like prostituetion, abduction, rape and etcetera, but it's always better than murder and it makes me cry whenever I see how many Afghans die in South on daily bases. I even heard an Uzbek call on Miskinyar's programme and he was saying how bad he feels about what Uzbek's had done to Pashtuns after US invasion, because those very same Pashtuns had welcomed Uzbek's very happily. But I guess you are right, Uzbek's take sides which is best for themselves only.

But did Tajiks really massacre against Hazara's over a decade ago? I know Mujahideen had been in war within their own groups but I don't believe that we Tajiks have targeted Hazara's, unless you give a solid point or either a reliable source. And also I would like to know how Amanullah Khan freed Hazara's from slavery because as far as I know, till Taliban regime Hazara's had been used as slaves by pretty much all ethnic Afghans. Ins't it?
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 11:37 PM

View PostANSARI, on 07 September 2009 - 07:05 PM, said:

Gul Aghas analysis is flawed and youd be better off not listening to online revolutionaries who will accomplish nothing in real life. the very conception of an independent khorasan exists only online in the minds of tajiks who confuse legitimate claims of oppression with exterimist and ignorant conclusions. The same people (maybe not gul agha himself) who insult Pashtuns online but yet hide behind online aliases because they are cowards.

I am not disputing the history of pashtunization, nor the crimes of Pashtun leaders. That is a matter of record, a matter of history, which cannot be disputed.

However, his analysis and understanding of the last 20 yrs, and his present analysis is so stupid it defies logic. I dont know where to begin. Whether its his conclusion that the NA were not responsible for systemic crimes during the 90s civil war, or the stupid notion that a northern khorasan state will be allowed for one second to remain independent whether by Iran or Russia. The man, actually refers to Tajikistan as an example of Irans benevolent nature, completely ignoring 150 years of Russian subservience in transoxiana.

Somehow he thinks Uzbeks, and Hazaras, having rebelled against Pashtun leadership will hold hands and sing kumbaya, and somehow he thinks the Russians or the Iranians will have no designs on this landlocked territory.

Somehow, Gul Agha claims that Tajiks dont have power, but then casually mentions that they control the military and the intelligence. Madina jan, how stupid does this sentence sound to you? Then he has the nerve to mention how many good things were done when they ran the show until 2004. Of course he doesnt mention that the entire economic and social elite of the country come from the north. Sure, there are Pashtuns in positions of power, but they are a marriage of convienice. Do you think Ahmad Wali Karzai and "Marshall" Fahim talk about pashtuns and tajiks when they get together to divide their spoils?

Somehow the north is the abode of literacy and civilization, but yet they have warlords, drug running, poverty, corruption and prostitution. Is this Pashtuns fault? Did Dostum and Atta magically squash their beef>?

All non Pashtuns have is hatred for Pashtuns to unite them. 15 yrs ago Tajiks were massacring Hazaras, and Uzbeks were switching sides like underwear but yet, Gul Agha will have us believe that the North is one harmonious homogenous environment. People like him appeal to ignorant and uneducated people looking for a crux, but in any debate, they will get their asss handed to them any day of the week.


What these pseudo scholars fail to realize is that the same imperial designs which left ancient Khorassan fragmented and subject to Pashtun rule, dealt us a savage blow as well. Afghanistan was forced to be a buffer zone by the Russians and British, and it was in their interest to create a nation like ours from the fronteirs of multiple empires. Yes, some Pashtuns benefitted from this arrangement (Muhamadzais/Durranis), but not all. I have an entire nation of brothers who were separated from me. So I was dealt a wrong hand too, because believe me, what Pashtun would want non Pashtuns over their own brothers from Lar aw Bar Pakhtunkhwa?

He has the nerve to mention Amanullah, who freed the Hazaras from slavery, the same Hazaras that FOUGHT FOR HIM, the same Amanullah that accepted hundreds of thousands of Uzbeks, Tajiks and Turkomans who fled the communist takeover. Like it or not a Pashtun King is the reason your last name doesnt end in Ov and you havent lost your Islamic faith. The same Pashtun Kings that used Farsi for 300 yrs at the expense of our language, we know have to pay the price for these crimes, even though it was ONE TRIBE out of THOUSANDS. And yet they still cry about language rights.

You want to liberate khorassan? Liberate Samarkand and Bokhara first, "warrior" before you start talking about Gardez and Ghazni. Ghazni if anything is split between Pakhtuns and Hazaras. Your Fahim cant even leave his neighbourhood without an assassination attempt, and you want to take Ghazni lol?


I think you are very illiterate because most of these claims are baseless and absurd.

This movement started in Afghanistan 50 years ago not a few years ago online. People like you who claim that these issues are nonexistent inside Afghanistan either have never been there or are lying and trying to brainwash young Afghanistanis living outside Afghanistan. I have dealt with people like you for 10 years now. Any Tajik who has been inside Afghanistan in the last 6 years knows that these are issues there and daily we see and read these in the media.

an Independent Khorasan will not turn into a paradise or into a hegemonic power in Asia. neighboring countries who are regional powers or world powers will have their influence but an independent Khorasan will be better than this so called Afghanistan we have today because most of our domestic problems will be solved. Any alternative except keeping afghanistan together is good for us right now.

I never said Tajiks have no power inside Afghanistan but most of the power lays in the hand of your Pashtuns. The intelligence and military is controlled by us but most of the ministries and organizations are controlled by Pashtuns. Since Marshal Fahim joined Karzai he has lost his popularity and most people in Northern Afghanistan detests this guy and are supporting Dr Abdullah's Khorasani movement. believe it or not, Most of Dr Abdullah's staff and advisors are Pro Khorasani supporters (ex. Saleh Mohammad Registani).

The North today is the cradle of civilization and today the North is flourishing and people like you are jealous because of this. We have no Drug lords or Warlords in the North and people like General Daud and Ustad Atta. Most of the provinces in the North are opium free and we have no corrupt individuals there. Dostum however is powerless and is in exile. Plus, who the hell is a warlord. today warlord is synonymous with "Rahbaran Shamal" and no one is using warlord for southerners who are criminals. Why is someone like Ustad Atta and Dostum called Warlord and Mullah Raketi is pardoned and is considered a "watandost" by the government. Howcome Dostum or Ustad Atta is considered warlords when their people adorn them and support them.

Tajiks Uzbeks and Hazaras did fight against each other and killed one another but at the end they united against a common enemy and forgave each other and admitted that it was a mistake that they fought against each other.

Amanullah Khan was a criminal who supported Pashtunization in Afghanistan. There are primary sources and documents that show us that Mahmoud Tarzi and Amanullah calling for the Pashtunization of non Pashtuns especially Hazaras and this process did start and many Hazaras were pashtunized especially in Kandahar and Zabul. The people of Dai Choopan in Zabul are Hazaras but they speak pashto today because of Amanullah Khan. Amanullah Khan confiscated our lands in Northern Afghanistan and gave it to the Kuchis and other Pashtun tribes. I would rather have the ov than accepting your primitive culture. Today Tajiks in Tajikistan are independent and have a peaceful nation. However, I am suffering because of your people who are keeping my people (Tajiks and Hazaras) in a cage known as Afghanistan.

Gardez is a Tajik city and most of the people there are still Tajiks. 50% of Ghazni City is Tajik and the rest is Hazara and Pashtun. This Document will prove my point:

http://www.aims.org....ghazni_city.pdf
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 11:45 PM

View PostANSARI, on 07 September 2009 - 07:12 PM, said:

btw i recall a several links detailing credible 3rd party human rights reports listing the crimes of the various mujahideen groups, including the shura e nazar, with detailed evidence of top down hierarchal command structure and systemic crimes being commited, and that SAME THREAD WAS DELETED AND THE USER BANNED,

I recall a user here who made a thread CRITICIZING IN DETAIL LATIF PEDRAMS FEDERALISM APPROACH AND THE TOPIC WAS DELETED

The truth will set you free bachem, shed your ignorance


Most of these reports are from RAWA, a pseudo feminist group which as chauvinistic policies. None of these reports are credible and unless you have reliable sources proving these things happened you will be laughed at and will be dealt like a clown.

I am not you to be ignorant. Ignorance only exists in your Pashtunwali. Khushal Khan Khattak, the Pashtun national poet even said this:

درست جهــان په نا پوهانو سـره دک دی ولی زیات په کشـی وگوری افغـــان دی
هوشیاران یگان یگان په هرمکان شـــته چه کثرت ئی دی په ملک د خراسان دی


Translation:

There are many ignorant people in this world most of these ignorant people are Afghans
There are some wise people in this world and most of these wise people are in the land of Khorasan

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 11:52 PM

Here are two documents stamped and signed by Amanullah Khan that allowed Pashtun Nomads (Immigrants) to be given land (land which belonged to non-Pashtuns) in Northern Afghanistan:

http://afghanistandl.../books/adl0072/

http://afghanistandl...0044/index.html
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:13 AM

Northern Alliance is not a party or a movement. It disintegrated after the collapse of the Taliban. Today most of the Northern parts of Afghanistan is controlled by Tajik commanders and those regions are flourishing today and are progressing. When Herat was in the hands of these commanders it flourished but since Karzai took over Herat has become instable.

Madina aziz, Ashraf Ghani didn't do anything for our people. When he was the finance minister he poured most of the Aid in southern Afghanistan and took bribes from many individuals. an Afghanistan working in a Swiss Bank reported that Ashraf Ghani stole 75,000,000 dollars from the ministry when he was a minister. When he became the Chancellor of Kabul University he took the Daneshgah sign out and kicked it in front of everyone and he wrote a 30 page proposal to the US Embassy and Afghanistan's parliament to give him 30,000,000 dollars to change the language of the university from Persian to English and Pashto.

Madina aziz, prostitution rape and homicides happen in every society and we should be realists. We are not living in paradise but on earth and these unjust things will happen to everyone till dooms day and the Day of Judgment.

Why should we feel sorry for those Pashtuns who were killed by Uzbeks? Those Pashtuns were part of the Taliban and they killed northerners when they invaded Northern Afghanistan. Most of the Pashtuns who lived in Northern Afghanistan helped the Taliban and once the Taliban fled they were either killed or they were sent back to southern Afghanistan and this is nothing to regret. Why should we host these people when they betray us in the end? Anyone who feels sorry for those Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan is a traitor. None of the Naqeleen welcomed our people after the collapse of the Taliban regime and they are still causing problems for our people there. All of them should be removed from there and sent back to either NWFP or the south.

Tajiks did not kill innocent Hazaras but killed Hazaras who were attacking them in Kabul and Hazaras killed Tajiks who were attacking them. But we should note that since the 19th century Hazaras have only been massacred by Pashtuns and no one else.
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:00 AM

View PostGul agha, on 08 September 2009 - 12:37 AM, said:

The North today is the cradle of civilization and today the North is flourishing and people like you are jealous because of this. We have no Drug lords or Warlords in the North and people like General Daud and Ustad Atta. Most of the provinces in the North are opium free and we have no corrupt individuals there. Dostum however is powerless and is in exile. Plus, who the hell is a warlord. today warlord is synonymous with "Rahbaran Shamal" and no one is using warlord for southerners who are criminals. Why is someone like Ustad Atta and Dostum called Warlord and Mullah Raketi is pardoned and is considered a "watandost" by the government. Howcome Dostum or Ustad Atta is considered warlords when their people adorn them and support them.

Tajiks Uzbeks and Hazaras did fight against each other and killed one another but at the end they united against a common enemy and forgave each other and admitted that it was a mistake that they fought against each other.


There is corruption all over Afghanistan. There are warlords all over Afghanistan. There is opium all over Afghanistan. These issues transcend beyond superficial labels and you know that regardless of what the corrupt government wants to call certain people. Sure, people in the north are more literate than those in the south, but that doesn't mean that their lifestyles are perfect. people in Afghanistan are hungry for money and couldn't care less about their crimes because they know they'll never be charged.
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