[Administrator]

[Madina]

^ Lindt didn't say there is no opium in south at all, she said it's everywhere, even if it's little it still is everywhere. In Mazar especially many disgusting things are taking place and I don't think I heard any such things happen even in south, which right now is completely unstable. Warlords a.k.a. Northern Alliance keep raping little kids and throw them in dustbin, people losing their children while gambling, HIV is increasing like hell! How will you stop all this? And in some places you are speaking against yourself dear;

If Tajiks have got control in army and intelligent services, do you even know then what that means? Military keeps an country safe and intelligence makes plans on how to keep a country safe, which now is done by Tajiks so what else do we need for our safety anyway? Pashtuns as our bodyguards? And Fahim and Dostum were supported by Tajiks when they killed and raped Pashtuns but detested when they joined Karzai and in one way or another tried to bring ethnics closer. And then we say Pashtuns got ill mentality? Why didn't we stop them from killing and raping but hate them now when they stopped killing and raping? At least, for a very large part they did. If we hated Pashtuns so much then at least we could have sent them back to the south without committing any sin, because those Pashtuns whom we say will face hell in Akherat, then my friend, we are in a qeue for hell as well and isn't it unfortunate we will go to hell for people we don't even like? Isn't it? And about the killing of Pashtuns, many of them were innocent and had nothing to do with Taliban. The reason I can be sure of this is because I met a Laghmani Pashtun girl who was married to an Hazara and her husband was telling my brother how Pashtuns saved them from Taliban in North. And quiet some Pashtuns have done the same and helped Hazara's, because of which Hazara's are okay with Pashtuns to some extend today. Even my Ghaznavi colleague at my previous job was a Hazara and he couldn't hear a single wrong word about Pashtuns and said everyone has made mistakes and everyone has suffered. Now it's time to quit it and move, and according to him many Hazara's have by now in Afghanistan.

And if North is getting better than Northern places like Herat even support a Pashtun, Karzai. One Herati mentioned that since Karzai's arrival Herat got clean water and electricity access, which Herat hardly had since last few decades. He said Herati's were happy with Karzai and even support him, and in places like Balkh and Mazar Uzbek's also support Karzai. Pashtuns support Bashardost and there are in fact also Hazara's supporting Karzai, so don't tell me all those ethnics got forced to do so. Tajikistan still got it's own little conflict and if we were strong with Tajikistan anyway then how come Russia succeeded to spread it's influence on Tajikistan but not Afghanistan? There are in fact some Tajiki's who are fighting for Russian language instead of Farsi, isn't it weird? And do you know what value of a Afghani was before Ashraf Ghani and during his work? Before Afghani was nothing but now 50 Afghani equals one dollar, which in itself is a big achievement for us. And if he indeed gave all the money to the south then how come south still got absolutely nothing? They should have been millionaires by now, right? And are they? And I would like to see solid links about his job at financing field and his anti-Tajik mentality. Honesty will clear our minds and show us right path, so therefore I wanna see solid links and solid proves before I say something about someone who could be meaning a lot to my country. Let me tell you that he again is being supported by Tajiks as well and again, in Herat mainly.

If Hazara's, Uzbek's and Tajiks could forgive each other then why not Pashtuns? Aren't they Afghan(istani)s too? Don't they deserve another chance? Pashtuns are completely broken and have weakened a lot since last few years, and now it's our time and opportunity to try and unite with them as well, so that in the future they realise their mistakes and don't repeat it ever again. If we keep taking revenges then we are no better than them and this hatred will be alive forever. Even after we part, may that day ever come. At least we can teach their children something who are still unknown by this conflict, so at least their next generation becomes wiser and more open minded. And trust me when I tell you that I know many Tajiks who visit Afghanistan regularly and those very same Tajiks got Pashtun friends and many of them even married Pashtuns, and never they complained about any ethical conflict.

[Administrator]

I did not say there is no opium in the south but most of the North is poium free especially BALKH. If you have any proof that opium is still in Balkh then please present it here. Your claims about Mazar are baseless. I was recently there and the most secure stable and peaceful province in Afghanistan is Mazar. If you have any proof that people get raped by NA commanders and followers in Mazar then present it here also. Most of these rapes, kidnapping, corruption, selling of women…etc exists in the south.
The reason why the armed forces and the intelligence services are not successful in bringing stability in the south is because everyone there is against the government. If you go to Helmand, Kandahar, Zabul and other southern regions you will not find a single man in the villages (except old men who are unable to fight). No one killed and raped innocent Pashtuns in the North but removed and eliminated the ones who betrayed their neighbors when the Taliban invaded the Northern provinces. The ones who got killed were the ones who resisted but most of them moved to the south peacefully and no one raped or killed them. I never said that 100% of thse Pashtuns worked with the Taliban but the vast majority helped the Taliban and everyone who is aware of Afghanistan’s recent history and politics know that when the Taliban entered Mazar most Pashtuns became guides to the Talib soldiers and showed where the Hazaras were living there. If it wasn’t for these Naqeleen from Mazar then the Taliban would have not killed all of those Hazaras in one day. A few examples will not change the reality that Pashtuns are the sworn enemies of both Tajiks and Hazaras and we will never prosper with them. There are many Pashtuns who have realized this like Masood Qiam when wrote last year that if There were no Pashtuns in Afghanistan, Tajiks and other ethnic groups would have lived peacefully.

[Administrator]

Madina, on 08 September 2009 - 08:45 PM, said:

And if North is getting better than Northern places like Herat even support a Pashtun, Karzai. One Herati mentioned that since Karzai's arrival Herat got clean water and electricity access, which Herat hardly had since last few decades. He said Herati's were happy with Karzai and even support him, and in places like Balkh and Mazar Uzbek's also support Karzai. Pashtuns support Bashardost and there are in fact also Hazara's supporting Karzai, so don't tell me all those ethnics got forced to do so. Tajikistan still got it's own little conflict and if we were strong with Tajikistan anyway then how come Russia succeeded to spread it's influence on Tajikistan but not Afghanistan? There are in fact some Tajiki's who are fighting for Russian language instead of Farsi, isn't it weird? And do you know what value of a Afghani was before Ashraf Ghani and during his work? Before Afghani was nothing but now 50 Afghani equals one dollar, which in itself is a big achievement for us. And if he indeed gave all the money to the south then how come south still got absolutely nothing? They should have been millionaires by now, right? And are they? And I would like to see solid links about his job at financing field and his anti-Tajik mentality. Honesty will clear our minds and show us right path, so therefore I wanna see solid links and solid proves before I say something about someone who could be meaning a lot to my country. Let me tell you that he again is being supported by Tajiks as well and again, in Herat mainly.

Lol. Why do you keep listening to others rubbish. You should research yourself and find your own answers. Karzai did nothing to help Heart and he even worked against this province. It was Ismail Khan the NA commander and Iran that brought water, electricity and other improvements in Herat not Mr. Karzai who can’t even fix his own war torn palace. When Karzai killed Ismail Khan’s son and removed Ismail Khan from Herat he stopped the progress that was going on in there and curroption increased from 5% to 80%. 45% of the companies and factories were closed and if you go to herat you will see that the natives curse Karzai. This past presidential elections showed us which side Heratis are on. When Dr. Abdullah visited Herat 200,000 people showed up but when Karzai went to Herat only 5,000 showed up. In Balkh no one supports karzai and that is why there were no pictures of Karzai during the presidential campaign in Balkh province.
Tajikistan is a Persian nation and no one there is fighting for the Russian language. Tajikistan got rid of the Russian language in 1989 ( 20 years ago) and since then the only official and national language in Tajikistan is Persian or Parsi-e-Tajiki. No one in Tajikistan is Russianized and they are loving people who have worked for their culture and language. Tajikistan is the only country which has given life to our past personalities by building statues, parks, intersections, museums, and libraries for them. Currency rate means nothing for our economy. Ok, lets think for a minute. One dollar = 50 afghanis and one dollar = 10000 rials and about 82 pakistani rupees. Does this mean that Afghanistan’s economy is better than Iran and Pakistan’s economy? Does this mean we are more rich and prosperous than those countries? One dollar = 4 Tajikistan Samanis. Is Tajikistan’s economy in the world’s top ten? This is no achievement and we should not be proud of this because if they opium trade stops then the Afghani will inflate again. The North is progressing with its own money not from the central government’s budget. Let me explain to you where those millionaires of dollars went. There is a school in Arghandab. This school has been destroyed more than 50 times but each time it is destroyed the government spends money to rebuild it. At the same time Bamian has asked the government to send them money to asphalt their roads and to build schools but the government failed to do so. Just a few months ago the Afghanistani government twice rebuilt Rahman Baba grave in Pakistan when the Taliban blew the mausoleum up but in Balkh Mawlana’s house is in ruins and the government is doing nothing to save that historic place. Ashraf Ghani isn’t even being supported by the majority of his Pashtuns and you are claiming that Tajiks are supporting him. His whole team is packed with Afghan Millati chauvinists and he many times in debates and interviews said that if he becomes president he will support the removal of the Durand Line.

[Administrator]

Madina aziz, history proves everything. We have worked for unity many times and it has failed. When they do not want unity why the hell should we work for it. Their concept of unity is for us to become Pashtunized and to accept their silly claim on Pakistan’s NWFP. We are from two different civilizations and like I said before you cannot have a stable country where two distinct and opposite civilizations exist. The Pashtuns currently want an emirate ruled by their Shariat and Pashtunwali while we want Democracy and freedom. Pedram’s alternative is the best way out; to give the south to the Taliban. In psychology there is a very good analogy that relates to countries like Afghanistan. When a family is in an unending crisis and one of the family members does not get along with the rest, a psychologist advice them to break apart and to become independent. Just look at Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia had the same problem as Afghanistan but they realized that partition and disintegration was the best solution and today they are all living in peace in the Balkans. My only advice to you is to study Afghanistan more closely and to stop asking people for information. Once you enter Afghanistan you will realize who was telling the truth to you.

[Madina]

^ Right now I wanna talk about the present and future, not past. You tell me not to believe others while you yourself say things I never heard of before and nor could find any link of online. I have heard things from people who went there, those I met and I watch Afghan TV channels regularly. Southern areas like Laghman, Nangarhar and few others were doing fine, until Abdullah Laghmani got killed and now even Nangarhar doesn't seem danger-free any more. But still Nangarhar has improved a lot and even Laghman was doing better and better, but let's see what happens from here. And what I don't get is why Taliban would attack the southern areas and kill Pashtuns if those are the people who actually support Taliban? It seriously makes no sense to me at all? And if some Pashtuns have realised their mistakes already, then why can't majority of them in few years time? As I said they don't have as much power as they used to have so it's our time to at least educate their kids and like that we will prevent further hatred from Pashtuns when they (again) gain power in Afghanistan. There are thousands of orphaned in south who are left with no choice than going terror way, why not help them instead? And if Pashtun was enemy of Tajiks and Hazara's only, then why the hell did Uzbek's also fight against them? If Taliban slaughtered Hazara's only then why did we Tajiks helped Hazara's kill and rape Pashtuns? Why didn't we help Hazara's when they needed protection? And in every country there is racism against minority so I doubt there would have been peace indeed.

I got family in Herat and they all support either Karzai or either Ghani and they also gave the same reason as that Herati guy, that since Karzai's presidency Herat is doing much better and Ghani won loads of support after his debate with Abdullah. Abdullah in some way is speaking against himself, by first saying he won't accept the winner of this election as the election is all about fraud. While on other hand he in the beginning said he is leading the vote, so he is trying to say he won by fraud? As a president you have to be very clever and unfortunately for us, Karzai knows very well what steps to take which won him quiet some votes. While the true deserves of the votes are Ghani and Bashardost, if you ask me. And you also want to see improvement right? Afghanistan's economics has improved and that's a fact and Ghani is being supported by youngsters mainly. And by the way, NWFP is still ours so I think all Afghans should support the idea of getting that area back, and USA could be a great help in that case. Because of that area Pakistan kept attacking us, it has to stop one day. But at least he wouldn't be worse than Karzai. And if Tajikistan hasn't Russianized then how come Russian is second most spoken language there which is still being spoken by villagers, and how come at least of half of Tajiki last names I heard end with 'ov'? Isn't that Russianized at all? Afghans at least don't use Russian language at all and nor do we have got any Russian last names.

And are you seriously claiming north is doing well thanks to it's own budget? Dude, I watch Afghan channels daily and daily I see how Western countries donate north of Afghanistan money and especially Mazar and Herat are getting loads of help. Hazara's indeed did complain that all those roads that have been build in Afghanistan, not even a percent of it has been built in Hazarajat. Please don't ignore that without Western aid north wouldn't have been flourishing like this today. And if Taliban's point is south only then why aren't we saying okay to it? Why is USA stopping them from taking over south? And correct me if I am wrong but isn't Bashardost also supporting removal of Durrand Line? And how did we try to make our relations better with Pashtuns? I am not trying to speak on behalf of Pashtun crimes or whoever, but all I am saying is that our present is in our hands and our future is what we make of it. Right now every ethnic in Afghanistan is equal and everyone has got his say, then why don't we use this opportunity to bring closer all ethnics? As I said, at least we can teach their children so they grow up otherwise, init? I admit that my close friendship with Pashtuns is one of the reasons why I don't want Pashtuns to suffer and want them to get one more chance, but I also refuse to believe they are the sole aggressors. Otherwise they would have been fascists in Pakistan as well. There is no difference between us if we wish them the same as they wished for us, someone has to make a move towards unity and for me Bashardost is an great example of that. We need more people like him.

And I can link sites of things I am talking about, but even you say things I hear for the first time and nor you add any link to it. Karzai killed Khan's son? Ghani stole millions from Swiss bank? Pashto forced on Hazara's? What's that all about?

[asif1986]

Madina, on 09 September 2009 - 04:45 PM, said:

And by the way, NWFP is still ours so I think all Afghans should support the idea of getting that area back, and USA could be a great help in that case. Because of that area Pakistan kept attacking us, it has to stop one day.

The question is do the people of NWFP want to be part of failed and divided afghanistan where most pashtuns are still living in stone age and enjoying their medieval nomandic lifestyle like kochis.

[Sohrab]

asif1986, on 10 September 2009 - 01:02 PM, said:

The question is do the people of NWFP want to be part of failed and divided afghanistan where most pashtuns are still living in stone age and enjoying their medieval nomandic lifestyle like kochis.

quite right!! Secondly, there are more Pakhtoons in Pakistan than there are Pashtoons in Afghanistan, you cant ask them with higher number to be part of those who got lower number. there is always talk about NWFP, but nobody talks about Panjdeh.

[Lindt]

Balochistan and NWFP do not officially belong to Afghanistan and I for one want it to stay that way. and Madina jaan you are right, the reason why Pakistan has interfered ever since its creation was because of those areas. After all, an unstable Afghanistan = stable pakistan.
I am all for these areas to form states of their own, but they will be of absolutely no benefit to Afghanistan from an economic and cultural point of view. Asif is quite right when he says many Pashtuns in NWFP think there's nothing wrong with their lifestyle.

Madina, on 08 September 2009 - 08:45 PM, said:

And trust me when I tell you that I know many Tajiks who visit Afghanistan regularly and those very same Tajiks got Pashtun friends and many of them even married Pashtuns, and never they complained about any ethical conflict.

Most of my aunts and uncles have married Pashtuns and there are no problems at all. there's definitely more to consider than ones superficial background.

[Madina]

Who gives a damn about what those people of NWFP want? And since when do we Tajiks care about Pashtuns' wishes anyway? (Giving a slight hint to some members.) And the reason why Pashtuns in Afghanistan are illiterate is partly because of themselves but also because educated Pashtuns would create trouble for Pakistan so it's obvious they will keep south of Afghanistan troubled, isn't it? I don't know about Panjdeh but it's a fact that Pakistan will keep using NWFP against us and if we can't take it back then at least we could make our share in making sure those areas get parted from Pakistan so the country gets weakened, maybe we should seek their enemy India's help? Punjabi's can't fight their own battle because they are not men enough for that and therefore they keep using Pashtuns and Balochi's but how will they compete with us if they lose their 'strength'?

If Pakistani's don't give a damn about how we Afghans feel then why should we care for their wish? Are Balochi's with Pakistan per their own wish? Are Kashmiri's with India per their own wish? Were Pashtuns in the beginning of Pakistan's independence with Pakistan per their own wish? Nopes, they were forced and if we can't force them to get back to us then at least we pay them back through interference so that Pakistan get's divided. So yeah I think an independent Balochistan and NWFP will be much better for us, so let's see what happens.

[asif1986]

Madina, on 10 September 2009 - 05:09 PM, said:

Were Pashtuns in the beginning of Pakistan's independence with Pakistan per their own wish? Nopes, they were forced and if we can't force them to get back to us then at least we pay them back through interference so that Pakistan get's divided.

when the british left the subcontinent a referendum was held in NWFP,and the people voted for pakistan, so its their wish.

[Sohrab]

Madina, on 10 September 2009 - 05:09 PM, said:

Who gives a damn about what those people of NWFP want? And since when do we Tajiks care about Pashtuns' wishes anyway? (Giving a slight hint to some members.) And the reason why Pashtuns in Afghanistan are illiterate is partly because of themselves but also because educated Pashtuns would create trouble for Pakistan so it's obvious they will keep south of Afghanistan troubled, isn't it? I don't know about Panjdeh but it's a fact that Pakistan will keep using NWFP against us and if we can't take it back then at least we could make our share in making sure those areas get parted from Pakistan so the country gets weakened, maybe we should seek their enemy India's help? Punjabi's can't fight their own battle because they are not men enough for that and therefore they keep using Pashtuns and Balochi's but how will they compete with us if they lose their 'strength'?

If Pakistani's don't give a damn about how we Afghans feel then why should we care for their wish? Are Balochi's with Pakistan per their own wish? Are Kashmiri's with India per their own wish? Were Pashtuns in the beginning of Pakistan's independence with Pakistan per their own wish? Nopes, they were forced and if we can't force them to get back to us then at least we pay them back through interference so that Pakistan get's divided. So yeah I think an independent Balochistan and NWFP will be much better for us, so let's see what happens.

i cant understand why you care about pakhoons of pakistan that much while we got nothing to do with them? and i think you should know about panjdeh. if they are happy or not happy with pakistan is not our problem.

[Madina]

Like I said already, I don't give a damn about what Pakistani's want and think, may they be Pashtun or may they be Punjabi! Pashtuns by the way protested heavily when they got merged with Pakistan so no, it wasn't their wish after all but that's not the point. The point is that as long as NWFP is with Pakistan, Afghanistan will keep facing troubles and instability. Maybe we shouldn't get back NWFP because those people might turn against us, but at least we should do something to weaken Pakistan and NWFP is a huge strength of Pakistan and without them they are nothing. The ethical hatred just started to blossom in NWFP and honestly speaking I hope it keeps increasing and reaches a point where most of them hate each other, just like the Bangali's did and just like the Balochi's do. Like that they will be busy with their own matters and piss off from Afghanistan and Afghans.

That's the only reason I want NWFP to part from Pakistan and as Lindt said, maybe Balochistan and NWFP should form an independent state. Will be better for them but we will benefit the most from their partition, trust me. Also I must admit that Afghan Pashtuns should stop trusting Paki Pashtuns like blind and start to rely on their fellow Afghans instead of Punjabi's second arm named Paki Pashtuns. The day Afghan Pashtuns unite with the rest of Afghanistan, from that day on no Paki, Punjabi, Paki Pashtun or whatever will dare interfere with us. That's why it's very necessary to get Afghan Pashtuns educated: Quickly......

[Administrator]

Madina, on 09 September 2009 - 04:45 PM, said:

^ Right now I wanna talk about the present and future, not past. You tell me not to believe others while you yourself say things I never heard of before and nor could find any link of online. I have heard things from people who went there, those I met and I watch Afghan TV channels regularly. Southern areas like Laghman, Nangarhar and few others were doing fine, until Abdullah Laghmani got killed and now even Nangarhar doesn't seem danger-free any more. But still Nangarhar has improved a lot and even Laghman was doing better and better, but let's see what happens from here. And what I don't get is why Taliban would attack the southern areas and kill Pashtuns if those are the people who actually support Taliban? It seriously makes no sense to me at all? And if some Pashtuns have realised their mistakes already, then why can't majority of them in few years time? As I said they don't have as much power as they used to have so it's our time to at least educate their kids and like that we will prevent further hatred from Pashtuns when they (again) gain power in Afghanistan. There are thousands of orphaned in south who are left with no choice than going terror way, why not help them instead? And if Pashtun was enemy of Tajiks and Hazara's only, then why the hell did Uzbek's also fight against them? If Taliban slaughtered Hazara's only then why did we Tajiks helped Hazara's kill and rape Pashtuns? Why didn't we help Hazara's when they needed protection? And in every country there is racism against minority so I doubt there would have been peace indeed.

You are very clever in spreading misinformation. your disguise as a young herati Tajik will not fool us. You should remember that we are not the followers of the Pashtunwali to be stupid enough and to fall in your trap. a true tajik would not have used Afghan after hearing and reading history. A True tajik wouldn't use the term "dari" after reading and listening to lectures done by Persian experts. All of these reasons gives us this conclusion and if you continue to identify yourself as a Tajik then we will have to ask you to leave this forum.

The past reflects the future and we will never forget our history. saying that you have never heard of these issues online makes me laugh because anyone who visits political sites is well aware that these ethnic and linguistic issues are very hot in there. even in sites like YouTube and facebook these issues are being discussed and debated by Tajiks, Pashtuns, and other ethnic groups. And about the Afghanistani TVs, most of them in the west are lowlifes who are unaware of Afghanistan's situation. People like Miskinyar and Omar Khetab are political prostitutes who are hungry for attention and money. If you start watching TV stations broadcasting inside Afghanistan you would be aware of what I am talking about here and you wouldn't listen to some of your Owghan relatives who are denying the truth. TVs like Tolo, Nour, Tamadun, Bakhtar, Arezo, Ayna, Noorin...etc have discussions on these issues weekly and Pashtun TVs like Lemar and Shamshad also propagate their Pashtunism and Saqawi agenda.

The funny thing is that you label Mazar a center for corrupt warlords and drug dealers while you praise nangarhar and laghman for progressing lol. What kind of a Tajik are you. The Taliban are not killing Pashtuns but it is the Pashtuns who are killing themselves. This is a fact that 99% the this movement is Pashtun and we cannot blame anyone else for their spread. This movement is not something new but has existed within the tribal societies of the Pashtuns for thousands of years. Like i said before the majority of the Pashtuns are with the Taliban today and they are fighting against humanity and democracy. We will never tolerate such beliefs in the North and we aren't made for each other. Tajiks can get along with most ethnic groups in the region but history has proven to us that we will never be able to unite with Pashtun tribes. When we know this fact why should we still continue the usual rhetoric that we will achieve unity one day. The reason why we can unite with Hazaras and Uzbeks is because we have united with them before and we have co-existed with them for hundreds of years. The reason why we couldn’t help Hazaras when they were getting massacred was because we were fighting our own war with the Taliban. It was impossible for Masood's soldiers to enter Hazarajat from Panjshir before being killed by the Taliban. Another reason why I doubt you are a Tajik is because a true Tajik would never use the term minority when addressing an ethnic group. only Pashtuns use the word minority because for some reason they believe they are the majority. However, Tajiks have always stressed that Afghanistan has no ethnic majority and Afghanistan is a country of minorities.

[Administrator]

Madina, on 09 September 2009 - 04:45 PM, said:

I got family in Herat and they all support either Karzai or either Ghani and they also gave the same reason as that Herati guy, that since Karzai's presidency Herat is doing much better and Ghani won loads of support after his debate with Abdullah. Abdullah in some way is speaking against himself, by first saying he won't accept the winner of this election as the election is all about fraud. While on other hand he in the beginning said he is leading the vote, so he is trying to say he won by fraud? As a president you have to be very clever and unfortunately for us, Karzai knows very well what steps to take which won him quiet some votes. While the true deserves of the votes are Ghani and Bashardost, if you ask me. And you also want to see improvement right? Afghanistan's economics has improved and that's a fact and Ghani is being supported by youngsters mainly. And by the way, NWFP is still ours so I think all Afghans should support the idea of getting that area back, and USA could be a great help in that case. Because of that area Pakistan kept attacking us, it has to stop one day. But at least he wouldn't be worse than Karzai. And if Tajikistan hasn't Russianized then how come Russian is second most spoken language there which is still being spoken by villagers, and how come at least of half of Tajiki last names I heard end with 'ov'? Isn't that Russianized at all? Afghans at least don't use Russian language at all and nor do we have got any Russian last names.

I am very convinced that your family is a Naqel from Herat. the only people who were supporting Ghani in Herat were Pashtuns who settled in Herat. Ghani won nothing in this elections, even his own Ahmadzai tribe did not support him. This is why he only received 2% of the votes and in Herat he also only received 2% of the votes. Dr Abdullah in the other hand, received the warmest welcome in Herat when 200,000 Heratis showed up and they were cheering for him. Did they rally like this for ghani also in Herat or for Karzai? When Karzai went to Herat only 5,000 showed up and later on many reported to stations like tolo that most of them were forced to show up because they worked in governmental offices in Herat. Dr Abdullah is indeed the true winner and if Karzai wouldn't have fabricated the votes Abdullah would have won. Ghani is a loser who received less than 3% of the votes and he has no supporters except for a few facist Pashtuns like you.

your claims on NWFP also gives us a clear image of who you are. a Tajik or a Pashtun? lol this is very easy to answer.

Tajikistan's second language is russian just how Afghanistan's second language is English today. But does this mean we are English today and we have forgotten our language and culture. The suffix "OV" was forced on all soviet republics and since Tajikistan's independence people have removed this. a few years ago even the president Imam ali Rahman removed the ov from Rahmanov and after him all of his ministers also removed it.

[Administrator]

Madina, on 09 September 2009 - 04:45 PM, said:

And are you seriously claiming north is doing well thanks to it's own budget? Dude, I watch Afghan channels daily and daily I see how Western countries donate north of Afghanistan money and especially Mazar and Herat are getting loads of help. Hazara's indeed did complain that all those roads that have been build in Afghanistan, not even a percent of it has been built in Hazarajat. Please don't ignore that without Western aid north wouldn't have been flourishing like this today. And if Taliban's point is south only then why aren't we saying okay to it? Why is USA stopping them from taking over south? And correct me if I am wrong but isn't Bashardost also supporting removal of Durrand Line? And how did we try to make our relations better with Pashtuns? I am not trying to speak on behalf of Pashtun crimes or whoever, but all I am saying is that our present is in our hands and our future is what we make of it. Right now every ethnic in Afghanistan is equal and everyone has got his say, then why don't we use this opportunity to bring closer all ethnics? As I said, at least we can teach their children so they grow up otherwise, init? I admit that my close friendship with Pashtuns is one of the reasons why I don't want Pashtuns to suffer and want them to get one more chance, but I also refuse to believe they are the sole aggressors. Otherwise they would have been fascists in Pakistan as well. There is no difference between us if we wish them the same as they wished for us, someone has to make a move towards unity and for me Bashardost is an great example of that. We need more people like him.

And I can link sites of things I am talking about, but even you say things I hear for the first time and nor you add any link to it. Karzai killed Khan's son? Ghani stole millions from Swiss bank? Pashto forced on Hazara's? What's that all about?

I don't know which Channels you have been watching. the media has covered this issue for years now and I haven't heard such a thing from any tribune. Herat was rebuilt when Ismail Khan was in power and he used the taxes that he collected to bring progress to that province. The same is happening in Balkh today. If all of these improvements were done by the central government then we would have seen progress in places like Kabul, Ghazni city, Gardez...etc

The Durand line is a natural border that has existed for thousands of years. If you read our history once you would know that this Durand line separated the Iranian plateau from the Sub-continent. We can't get along with the Pashtuns of Afghanistan; do you think another 20 million Pashtuns will bring prosperity to this country? All of these borders were drawn by imperialists and if one gets removed then all of them should get removed. If Pashtuns are allowed to unite then why should Tajiks Hazaras Uzbeks and Turkmens with their brothers? Why should these privileges only be given to Pashtuns and not to the other ethnic groups?

in conclusion, Afghanistan has no future and the only thing that is keeping Afghanistan together is the foreign troops. Once they pull out Afghanistan's faith will be partition and balkanization and no one will be able to save this failed state.

Karzai did kill Khan's son and anyone who knew what happened in Herat in 2004 is aware of this. Karzai supported and helped Amanullah from Shindand to attack Herat and Amanullah killed Ismail Khan's son and it was then when Ismail Khan surrendered to Karzai. do you think Ismail Khan has forgotten this?

There is an Afghanistani in Zurich who is well aware of Ghani's history of bribery. His name is Jamil Qaderi and he works with one of the swiss banks. He was a representative of this bank for Afghanistan when Ghani was minister.

How can you deny that Pashtu wasn't forced on Hazaras. If you have read Ghobar and Sediq Farhang's history you would have knew this.

Next time before debating with us please go and study your history and become aware of your country's politics.

[Administrator]

Madina, on 10 September 2009 - 05:09 PM, said:

Who gives a damn about what those people of NWFP want? And since when do we Tajiks care about Pashtuns' wishes anyway? (Giving a slight hint to some members.) And the reason why Pashtuns in Afghanistan are illiterate is partly because of themselves but also because educated Pashtuns would create trouble for Pakistan so it's obvious they will keep south of Afghanistan troubled, isn't it? I don't know about Panjdeh but it's a fact that Pakistan will keep using NWFP against us and if we can't take it back then at least we could make our share in making sure those areas get parted from Pakistan so the country gets weakened, maybe we should seek their enemy India's help? Punjabi's can't fight their own battle because they are not men enough for that and therefore they keep using Pashtuns and Balochi's but how will they compete with us if they lose their 'strength'?

If Pakistani's don't give a damn about how we Afghans feel then why should we care for their wish? Are Balochi's with Pakistan per their own wish? Are Kashmiri's with India per their own wish? Were Pashtuns in the beginning of Pakistan's independence with Pakistan per their own wish? Nopes, they were forced and if we can't force them to get back to us then at least we pay them back through interference so that Pakistan get's divided. So yeah I think an independent Balochistan and NWFP will be much better for us, so let's see what happens.

The only reason why Pakistan is hostile towards Afghanistan is because of this silly claim on NWFP. It was criminals like Daud Khan who started this claim and made Pakistan our enemy. Once Afghanistan recognizes this border, Pakistan will stop interfering in our affairs. In Persian we have a saying for people like you : " Har qadar goh raa shoor bedihi, booy beshtar azesh mebaraayad"

[Administrator]

Madina, on 10 September 2009 - 08:29 PM, said:

Like I said already, I don't give a damn about what Pakistani's want and think, may they be Pashtun or may they be Punjabi! Pashtuns by the way protested heavily when they got merged with Pakistan so no, it wasn't their wish after all but that's not the point. The point is that as long as NWFP is with Pakistan, Afghanistan will keep facing troubles and instability. Maybe we shouldn't get back NWFP because those people might turn against us, but at least we should do something to weaken Pakistan and NWFP is a huge strength of Pakistan and without them they are nothing. The ethical hatred just started to blossom in NWFP and honestly speaking I hope it keeps increasing and reaches a point where most of them hate each other, just like the Bangali's did and just like the Balochi's do. Like that they will be busy with their own matters and piss off from Afghanistan and Afghans.

That's the only reason I want NWFP to part from Pakistan and as Lindt said, maybe Balochistan and NWFP should form an independent state. Will be better for them but we will benefit the most from their partition, trust me. Also I must admit that Afghan Pashtuns should stop trusting Paki Pashtuns like blind and start to rely on their fellow Afghans instead of Punjabi's second arm named Paki Pashtuns. The day Afghan Pashtuns unite with the rest of Afghanistan, from that day on no Paki, Punjabi, Paki Pashtun or whatever will dare interfere with us. That's why it's very necessary to get Afghan Pashtuns educated: Quickly......

You support Pakistan's disintegration and not Afghanistan's? "Koor e khud va beenah e mardum"

Afghanistan is worse than Pakistan and if any country becomes disintegrated in that region it would be Afghanistan not Pakistan

[Sohrab]

Lindt, on 11 September 2009 - 01:41 PM, said:

lol awww just because Madina doesn't share your sentiments that automatically means her given identity is a facade. you fail to understand that most tajiks do not think like you do, are not selfish like you are and simply pray for a prosperous Afghanistan. I'd really appreciate if you could step out of fantasy land and acknowledge + work with the various views of members

Dear Lindt, You are right that not every single Tajik thinks as Gul Agha, but at the same time majority of Tajiks do not think like Madina either. I personally dont make assumptions about people's ethnicities (publically), but this is the internet and it is not something new that a person pretend to be She, while she is He. Or someone pretends to be Tajik, and actually he/she is a Pashtoon. Or he pretends to be Pashtoon, but in reality he is Tajik. In most cases it is not difficult to see who is who by reading their posts, because they cant hide their true desire and what they have got in their hearts forever.

[asif1986]

Lindt, on 10 September 2009 - 04:11 PM, said:

Balochistan and NWFP do not officially belong to Afghanistan and I for one want it to stay that way. and Madina jaan you are right, the reason why Pakistan has interfered ever since its creation was because of those areas. After all, an unstable Afghanistan = stable pakistan.
I am all for these areas to form states of their own,

Have a look at the map of NWFP.And independent NWFP will be landlocked between afghanistan and pakistan, will it be politically and economically viable state.