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"Durand line" Is it our (Hazara,Uzbek and Tajik) issue or Pashtuns issue? Rate Topic: -----

#101 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 10:38 AM

It´s funny to read that Pashtuns want to be ''together'' and not devided by the ''Durand Line''. Such a think like Durand Line is just an imagine border. Pashtun Taliban Kuchis and their blood brothers, the Arabs and Punjabi fundamentalists cross the broder whenever they want but the fact is, the Pushtuns have no right to claim anything. The original home of Pushtuns are the Sulaiman Mountains and Pakistan/India, Israel, Mongolia and Sri-Lanka. They have no rights to claim on any part of Khurasan. If they want to live fully with Pushtuns from Pakistan they are free to live the country or have to taste B52 bombs. These Pushtuns forget that a new Tajik nationalism can easily installed in Afghanistan and specially in all parts of Pushtun invaded regions like Kandahar, Paktika, Kunar etc. If the foreigners are out it will take lesser than 2 hours to set down 75 000 ANA nationalists on the throne of Kandahar and go after Pashtun genocids. The Pushtuns should be very aware how they act against Tajiks and what they do otherwise there won´t be any pardon for them, neither for their prostitute women and daughters nor for themself on the caves of the Sulaiman Mountain.
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Posted 22 December 2009 - 07:33 PM

View PostParsistani, on 22 December 2009 - 10:38 AM, said:

It´s funny to read that Pashtuns want to be ''together'' and not devided by the ''Durand Line''.


This is what Pashtoons of Afghanistan want(dont forget that not all of them). How about the Pakistanis(pathans in pakistan)? do they want to be with Pashtoons? they are patriotic pakistanis.
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Posted 23 December 2009 - 02:17 PM

90% of Pathans are proud Pakistani and do not want to be related with Afghanistan or be named with it in one breath
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Posted 09 December 2010 - 09:56 AM

Dear friends, brothers and sisters,

today Awghans are again talking about the Durand Line and do not recognize it as a official border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. They do not know the ''Durand Line'' was only non-existent during the rule of Ahmad Shah Abdali Multani Punjabi. The region became back to Indian plateau when he died. It became back part of the Indian sub-continent. It was never a part of Khorasan but since it´s about Pashtun and ethnical policy was always the main factor of Pashtun policy they propagated it as part of Afghanistan. But than I have to ask what´s about Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazaras etc? Why it is ligitimated for a bunch of homosexual and sodomit people to claim on a country because of Pakhtun Dalkhor Pakis but non-Pashtuns can´t claim on Tajikistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Mongolistan or whatever because they have not the Aughani legitimation and would only work for ''Anti-Awghanistan''? According to their logic, in return non-Pashtuns like Uzbeks, Turks, Mongols who ruled and existed longer than these rats in modern Afghanistan has as the only people every right to claim the region called Awghanistan as theirs. Why should only Awghans claim on it because of a homosexual Panjabi from Multan that ruled the region beyond Khurasan just 20years before he died of his ass-cancer? Isn´t the actions of these shameless and beghairat and many times raped by Hamid Gul and his brothers not self an act of disunity of Afghanistan and an anti-Afghanistan policy and still running for those who rape them, burn their schools, kill more civilians than ciilian get killed by a legal war? Why these filthy bastard take the right to call those filthy Pakis as ''Afghans'' when they do not even live in Afghanistan? From where do these filthy Afkoonian take the right to call Pashtu and Pakhtu as one language while it isn´t. Both languages have the same roots but have not a common identity and are splitted in various dialects that can´t understand eachother without a standard language (Pashtu Tolana)? Who give these bastards the right to teach us what language we speak and which not? Today, their nationalist Afkoonian say all lands from Amu Darya to Abasin belong to Awghools but they forget they couldn´t survive one second when they entered the Amu Darya region and that Uzbeks and Tjaiks raped 10 000s families of them and forced them back to drop their urban life and go back for a nomadic life. The fact is, these shameless shemale whores are just jealous and pathetic and they need again to get a lesson from their Panjabi masters. Durand Line is reality. As long not a single non-Pashtun accept this ligitimated border there won´t be any Durand Line policy or discussions. It was in the past and it will be in the future the same and thus they have to bleed. Today, those filthy Dalkhor Pakis they want to unite with are proud citizen of Pakistan, represented in the army, ISI, industries, politics and ironically those are also the same Pakhtuns who killed mio. of Pashtuns and supported during Jihaad non-Pashtuns against Russians. These shameless rats have forgotten who send in 1974 Gulbuddin Hekmatyar to Kabul who bombed the city 600 times in only one day. These filthy Pashtunists are not Turks or Arabs. They have not a humanic brain to be succesfull. They have no Ataturk or Abdul Wahab to arabize or turkify non-Arabs and non-Turks to Turks and Arabs. You are just a bunch of homosexual, sodomit and bacha baaz AFKOONIANS who sold their asses to foreigners because of fear from non-Pashtuns and today you beg again your masters to support you against us? We will kill you, your children, your parents and burn you with them alive and dig your dirty dead bodies in ''Abaseen'', K***madaran Pashtunha. Once Khar-Zai is dead and his family is burning in hell your days are counted!!!
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Posted 09 December 2010 - 06:59 PM

View Postshabir, on 19 October 2009 - 10:09 AM, said:

kabuli. I also love english language & I even showed interest in pashto language in the past but that doesnt mean I will let go of my own language or ethnic for this. pashtuns love their ethnic more than anything & thats their minus point. a huge minus point. ur ideas 're very bright but too beautiful to be true. I really appreciate ur thinking though


hey Awghool,

we already found out who you are, little Pashtun rat. Do you think we are stupid as a catle-loving Pashtun? Why you are still here? But who cares what yóu try to pretend beeing...from your last post to today the situation changed a lot and today it is again you who is targeted. So what are you still propagating here? At least show us you are a human and drank your mother´s milk and show us your real face, Awghan.
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Posted 31 December 2010 - 01:08 PM

How a Pashtun from Kabul become a patriotic Pakistani http://www.pashtuns....htuns-view-341/ The same Pashtuns who are active here you will find on that forum, too.

Pakistan says ''The Durand Line is a settled issue''

About twenty-three miles south of Pillar XII, which is erected on the Saricol range of Pamir, lies the beginning of the “North West Frontier”. Pillar XII is located at latitude 37o20′5″N and longitude 74o24′50″E. It was erected by a joint Anglo-Russian Commission in September 1895, on the left bank of a tributary of the Tegermen-Su river, one mile from its mouth; and it is the last among pillars, which carry the Russo-Afghan frontier from the eastern end of Lake Victoria (Wood’s Lake) to the Chinese frontier.

The protocol embodying the final agreement was signed on July 22, 1887 and is known as the Pamir Agreement. The demarcated boundary according to the ‘The Pamir Agreement’ remains unchanged to this day. This border was internationally recognized as the border between Russia (then Soviet Union) and Afghanistan. Today this boundary is the internationally recognized border between the Central Asian countries (former Soviet republics as successor independent states of Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and Tajikistan) and Afghanistan.

The Afghan frontier turns west from Pillar XII and follows the northern ridge of the Sarikol Range bordering the Taghdumbash Pamir. It then curves southward over the Wakhjir Pass to join the present Pakistan-Afghan frontier, which is often referred to as the Durand line. While negotiating the Durand Line, Amir Abdul Rahman Khan of Afghanistan had received a British mission in a formal Durbar which was held in November 1893, in the Salam Khana Hall, where the civil and military officers of Kabul and chiefs of various tribes were present.

The Amir in his speech gave an outline to the audience of all the understanding which had been agreed upon and the provisions which had been signed, and urged upon them the necessity for adhering firmly to British alliance. He pointed out that the interests of Afghanistan and England were identical.

The Amir further told the audience that it was for the first time that Afghanistan had a definite frontier which would prevent future misunderstandings and would render Afghanistan strong and powerful after it had been consolidated with the aid in arms and ammunition which would be received from the British.

The demarcation of the Durand Line was carried out in fulfilment of the Anglo-Afghan agreement’ of November 12, 1893 between Amir Abdul Rahman Khan of Afghanistan and Sir Henry Mortimer Durand, Foreign Secretary to the Government of the British Raj (the former British colony in South Asia now composed of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh).

The demarcation of the Indo-Afghan frontier, as defined in the above mentioned agreement, was divided into sections and was carried out for the most part by the joint Anglo-Afghan Commission during the year 1894-1896. In 1947, the Indian sub-continent emerged as two independent dominions of India and Pakistan. West Pakistan by right of its location inherited the former North West Frontier of British India and the Indo-Afghan boundary established vide the agreement of 1893.

There are some circles who continue to spread disinformation that the agreement was signed under duress and has a validity of 100 years. Unfortunately, the propaganda emanates from a country in the neighbourhood of Pakistan. This country also instigates anti-Pakistan elements in the Afghan government to issue controversial statements undermining Pak-Afghan relations. A host of websites of this country also disseminate anti-Pakistan propaganda. It is therefore necessary to put the facts in the correct perspective as follows:

– The International Border between Pakistan and Afghanistan is based on the map attached with the original Agreement of 1893.

– Clause 6 of the Agreement clearly states that the agreement is regarded by both the parties as a full and satisfactory settlement of all the principal differences of opinion which have arisen between them. The Agreement has been reaffirmed by successive Afghan rulers.

– 1905 Treaty with Amir Habibullah Khan continuing the Agreements which had existed between the British Government and Amir Abdul Rahman Khan. Para 2 states “I also have acted, am acting and will act upon the same agreement and I will not contravene them in any dealing or in any promise.”

– Treaty of peace between the British Government and the Independent Afghan Government concluded at Rawalpindi on 8th August 1919. Article 5 states that “the Afghan Government accepts the Indo-Afghan frontier accepted by the Late Amir.”

– Friendly and Commercial Relations treaty between Great Britain and Afghanistan at Kabul on 22 November 1921. Article 2 of the treaty states that, “The two high contracting parties accept the Indo-Afghan frontier as accepted by the Afghan Government under Article V of the treaty concluded at Rawalpindi on 8th August 1919.”

– Notes were exchanged between His Majesty’s Government and Afghan Minister in London, 1930 (His Highness General Shah Wali Khan to Mr. Arthur Henderson), Afghan Legation 6th May 1930. Both parties ~greed that it was their understanding that the Treaty of Kabul of 22 November 1921 continued to have full force and effect.

– On 13 June 1948, Shah Wali Khan, the Afghan envoy to Pakistan declared, ” Our King has already stated, and I, as the representative of Afghanistan, declare that Afghanistan has no claims on frontier territory and even if there were any, they have been given up in favour of Pakistan. Anything contrary to this which may have appeared in the press in the past or may appear in the future should not be given credence at all and should be considered just a canard.”

The Pak-Afghan International Border has sound technical and legal background. According to international law, treaties of the extinct state concerning boundary lines remain valid and all rights and duties arising from such treaties of the extinct state devolve on the absorbing state. Pakistan is a successor state of British India. The following is worth mentioning:

– A country to country treaty does not need any revision unless both parties desire change.

– International Agreement once finally concluded can be revoked only bilaterally and not unilaterally.

– Unless otherwise provided in the concluded treaty about its duration, the treaty becomes of a permanent nature. This is applicable to the 1893 Treaty Agreement.

– International Law does not lay down the maximum life period of one hundred years for an internationally concluded border agreement between the two states, when fixed border validity has not been mentioned in its text.

It goes beyond doubt to say that the international border between Pakistan and Afghanistan is a settled matter and is globally accepted. It is supported by International Law and the treaty of 1893 has been ratified several times by successive Afghan governments.

Durand Line / Treaty

As long as Afghanistan refuses to accept the Durand Line as the permanent international boundary between Pakistan and Afghanistan, there is no reliable way to combat extremism and terrorism in the region.

Durand Line – the present border between Afghanistan and Pakistan – was agreed to as official boundary line between the British Raj and Afghanistan on 12 November 1893. Sir Henry Mortimer Durand from the British side and Amir Abdul Rahman Khan from the Afghan side signed the historical document.

Pakistan and Afghanistan, as successor states, are bound to honour this agreement.

The present spread of religious intolerance and extremism in the region is, in great part, attributable to the fact that the successive and successor governments of Afghanistan have declined to accept the Durand Line as permanent boundary between the two countries. Uncertainty of the boundary rules and impermanent nature of the physical border are playing in favour of extremist elements on both sides of the dividing line.

Moreover, there was a whisper campaign a while ago that the Durand Line agreement was valid for 100 years and after that the document is legally null and void now. The original text shows that there is no time-expiry clause in the agreement.

Here is the complete text of the agreement:

Agreement
between
His Highness Amir Abdul Rahman Khan, G.C.E.I
Amir of Afghanistan and its Dependencies, on the one part,
and
Sir Henry Mortimer Durand, K.C.I.E., C.S.I.,
Foreign Secretary to the Government of India,
representing the Government of India, on the other part

Whereas certain questions have arisen regarding the frontier of Afghanistan on the side of India, and whereas both His Highness the Amir and the Government of India are desirous of settling these questions by a friendly understanding, and of fixing the limit of their respective spheres of influence, so that for the future there may be no difference of opinion on the subject between the allied Governments, it is hereby agree as follows:

1. The eastern and southern frontier of High Highness’s dominions, from Wakhan to the Persian border, shall follow the line shown in the map attached to this agreement.

2. The Government of British India will at no time exercise interference in the territories lying beyond this line on the side of Afghanistan, and His Highness the Amir will at no time exercise interference in the territories lying beyond this line on the side of India.

3. The British Government thus agrees to His Highness the Amir retaining Asmar and the valley above it, as far as Chanak. His Highness agrees on the other hand that he will at no time exercise interference in Swat, Bajaur or Chitral, including the Arnawai or Bashgal valley. The British Government also agrees to leave to His Highness the Birmal tract as shown in the detailed map already given to High Highness, who relinquishes his claim to the rest of the Waziri country and Dawar. His Highness also relinquishes his claim to Chageh [now, Chagai. Ed.].

4. The frontier line will hereafter be laid down in detail and demarcated, wherever this may be practicable and desirable, by Joint British and Afghan Commissioners, whose object will be to arrive by mutual understanding at a boundary which shall adhere with the greatest possible exactness to the line shown in the map attached to this agreement, having due regard to the existing local rights of villages adjoining the frontier.

5. With reference to the question of Chaman, the Amir withdraws his objection to the new British Cantonment and concedes to the British Government the rights purchased by him in the Sirkai-Tilerai water. At this part of the frontier, the line will be drawn as follows:

From the crest of Khwaja Amran range near the Pasha Kotal, which remains in British territory, the line will run in such a direction as to leave Murgha Chaman and the Sharobo spring to Afghanistan, and to pass half way between the New Chaman Fort and the Afghan outpost known locally as Lashkar Dand. The line will then pass half way between the railway station and the hill known as the Mian Baldak, and, turning southwards, will rejoin the Khwaja Arman range, leaving the Gwasha Post in British territory, and the road to Shorawak to the west and south of Gwasha in Afghanistan. The British Government will not exercise any interference within half a mile of the road.

6. The above articles of agreement are regarded by the government of British India and His Highness the Amir of Afghanistan as a full and satisfactory settlement of all the principal differences of opinion which have arisen between them in regard to the frontier; and both the Government of British India and His Highness the Amir undertake that any differences of detail, such as those which will have to be considered hereafter by the officers appointed to demarcate the boundary line, shall be settled in a friendly spirit, so as to remove for the future as far as possible all causes of doubt and misunderstanding between the two Governments.

7. Being fully satisfied of His Highness’s good-will to the British Government, and wishing to see Afghanistan independent and strong, the Government of British India will raise no objection to the purchase and import by His Highness of munitions of war, and they will themselves grant him some help in this respect. Further, in order to mark their sense of the friendly spirit in which High Highness the Amir has entered into these negotiations, the Government of British India undertake to increase by the sum of six lakhs of rupees a year the subsidy of twelve lakhs now granted to His Highness.

(Signed) H. M. Durand

(Signed) Amir Abdul Rahman Khan

Kabul, the 12th November 1893

Note: Original agreement is available in the national archive of Pakistan. This report has been produced from the copy available at the Area Study Center, Peshawar University.

Published with permission.

One Lakh = 100000

Views on the issue of Pak-Afghan border:

– Following independence, the NWFP voted to join Pakistan in a referendum in 1947. However, Afghanistan’s loya jirga of 1949 declared the Durand Line invalid as they saw it as ex patre on their side since British India ceased to exist in 1947 with the independence of Pakistan and the Republic of India. This had no tangible effect as there has never been a move to enforce such a declaration. Additionally, world courts have universally upheld uti possidetis juris, i.e, binding bilateral agreements with or between colonial powers are “passed down” to successor independent states, as with most of Africa. A unilateral declaration by one party has no effect; boundary changes must be made bilaterally. Thus, the Durand Line boundary remains in effect today as the international boundary and is recognized as such by nearly all nations. Despite pervasive internet rumors to the contrary, U.S. Dept. of State and the British Foreign Commonwealth Office documents and spokespersons have recently confirmed that the Durand Line, like virtually all international boundaries, has no expiration date, nor is their any mention of such in any Durand Line documents. (The 1921 treaty expiration refers only to the 1921 agreements.)

– Afghanistan was created in 1747 AD by the Punjab-born (city of Multan in present-day Pakistan) Pashtun named Ahmed Shah Abdali. The fact is Abdali conquered the Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Balochis, Punjabis, etc. This was a forceful occupation of various lands/peoples subdued to the Abdali monarchy. Per Encyclopedia Britannica, “Ahmad Shah began by capturing Ghazni from the Ghilzai Pashtuns, and then wresting Kabul from the local ruler. In 1749 the Mughal ruler ceded sovereignty over Sindh Province and the areas west of the Indus River to Ahmad Shah in order to save his capital from Afghan attack. Ahmad Shah then set out westward to take possession of Herat, which was ruled by Nadir Shah’s grandson, Shah Rukh. Herat fell to Ahmad after almost a year of siege and bloody conflict, as did Mashhad (in present-day Iran). Ahmad next sent an army to subdue the areas north of the Hindu Kush. In short order, the powerful army brought under its control the Turkmen, Uzbek, Tajik, and Hazara tribes”.

– Now many people can argue that Afghanistan’s creation was illegal because the land belonged to Persian-based Safavids/Sassanians/etc and South Asian-based Mughals/Mauryas/etc until Abdali’s creation in 1747 AD. But the fact of the matter is people and its lands constantly evolve to new geo-political environments changing boundaries and nationhoods. Prior to 1747 AD, the region of Afghanistan was ruled by Persian Achaemenians and Sassanians, Greeks, Scythians, Hepthalites, Arabs, Turkics, Mongols, and many others (currently by NATO). Mauryas and Mughals ruled a large portion of present-day Afghanistan (almost all of Pashtun areas). By the way, the Muslim rulers of South Asia were mostly Turko-Mongols originating from Central Asia who also ruled the Pashtuns.

– Afghanistan’s creation was legal in the same way Pakistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, etc. were created later on. The boundaries between Iran and Afghanistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan, Afghanistan and Tajikistan/Uzbekistan/Turkmenistan, etc were created by the British and Russians. So the few Afghans beating the drum of Durand Line (Pak-Afghan boundary) is pointless. By the same token, all boundaries of Afghanistan are questionable. Why should only Pashtun areas of Pakistan be merged to Afghanistan? Afghanistan is a multi-ethnic country like Pakistan. Should Tajikistan lay claim to Tajik lands of Afghanistan, Uzbekistan to Uzbek lands in Afghanistan, Turkmenistan to Turkmen lands in Afghanistan, etc.?

– The mostly ethnicity-based countries like Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, & Turkmenistan have much more stronger claims to Tajik, Turkmen, & Uzbek lands of Afghanistan because Afghanistan is a multi-ethnic country like Pakistan, so a multi-ethnic Afghanistan has no right to claim only Pashtun lands of Pakistan. How about Pakistan claiming Pashtun lands of Afghanistan instead since Pashtuns are being oppressed in Afghanistan, Pashtuns in Pakistan are comparatively much more prosperous, and Afghans are desperate to flee to Pakistan. By the way, Pashtuns are not the only ethnic group divided between two countries, e.g. Azeris are divided between Iran and Azerbaijan, Tajiks between Afghanistan and Tajikistan, Uzbeks between Afghanistan and Uzbekistan, Turkmens between Afghanistan and Turkmenistan, Balochis between Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan, Kurds between Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Syria, Arabs between many different countries, etc.

– If Durand Line of boundary is artificial, then not only Pashtun lands of Pakistan, but “all” of Pakistan should merge to Afghanistan because the “original” empire(s) included today’s Pakistan and Afghanistan. And if Durand Line of boundary is artificial then how valid are the boundaries between Afghanistan and Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, etc…. or all countries of Middle East (Sykes-Picot treaty).. created by former European colonialists such as the British, French, and Russians. Lets not forget the “Great Game” on how the Brits and Ruskies created Afghanistan’s boundaries as a buffer zone between them. We know how the Soviets created Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan… “In 1886 a Russian army fresh from its conquest of the Oasis of Merv, in today’s Turkmenistan, occupied the Panjdeh Oasis near Herat. It was also the time of The first Great Game. Britain immediately warned Russia that any further advance towards Herat would be considered as inimical to British interests. As a consequence of the May 1879 Treaty of Gandamak after the Second Afghan War, Britain took control of Afghanistan’s foreign affairs. After the Panjdeh incident a joint Anglo-Russian boundary commission, without any Afghan participation, fixed the Afghan border with Turkestan, which was the whole of Russian Central Asia, now Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan (though Tajikistan being part of Turkestan is questionable since Tajikistan is not Turkic-speaking country). Thus as a consequence of the competition between Britain and Russia, a new country, the Afghanistan we know today, was created to serve as the buffer.” …..Now on the Afghan-Iran boundaries created by the British/Russians, according to Encyclopedia Britannica, “In 1863 Dost Mohammad retook Herat from Iran with British acquiescence…. The boundary with modern Iran was firmly delineated in 1904, replacing the ambiguous line made by a British commission in 1872″.

– In 1947 and beyond the Congressite followers of Badshah Khan continued to ask the Gandhi question “The Pathans should have had a choice between Afghanistan, Pakistan and India”. The Muslim League had correctly argued that the British had no right to ask that particular question, since they did not ask Nagaland if it wanted to join Burma, nor did they ask Tamil Nadu if it wanted to join Sri Lanka. Thus the Durand Line became the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

– Knowing the bitter enmity between Tajiks/Hazaras and Pashtuns in Afghanistan, Tajiks/Hazaras will never allow Afghanistan to become 75% Pashtun (from 40%) by only integrating Pashtun areas of Pakistan. The post-Taliban Tajik-dominated Afghan army has allegedly been oppressing Pashtuns in Afghanistan. In fact there are Tajik nationalists who are fiercely anti-Pashtun and anti-Afghanistan. And when the Afghan Pashtuns ruled Afghanistan under the Taliban they massacred thousands of Hazaras in Mazar-e-Sharif, and others.

– The word Afghan in the past might have reffered to a Pashtun tribe(s), but that meaning evolved to another one. Today, an Afghan is defined as only a citizen of present-day Afghanistan regardless of ethnicity. There are countless other examples on how a word’s meaning evolves to a different one over time.

– NWFP of Pakistan is not all Pashtun, large areas of this land are Hindkowi, Shina, Khowari, Gujjar, etc. most linguistically related to Punjabi. Majority of Balochistan is Baloch who also have bitter rivalry with the Afghans and do not want to be part of Afghanistan.

– Millions of Pakistani Pashtuns inhabit in the provinces of Punjab and Sindh such as cities of Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad… not to mention millions of Afghan refugees in Pakistan. Since the 1980s the Durand Line has been a porus line for men and material. During the Soviet occupation of Western/Northern Afghanistan, some portions of Eastern/Southern Afghanistan (at least the Pashtun portions) literally became part of free Afghanistan, a satellite of Pakistan. 6 million Afghans came to Pakistan as refugees. More than one million Afghan children were born in Pakistan.

– Pashtuns have much more in common with Pakistanis than with Afghans plus there are much more Pashtuns in Pakistan than in Afghanistan. Pashtuns are linguistically Indo-Iranic. Linguistically, Pakistanis are 99% Indo-Iranic, whereas Afghans are only 84% Indo-Iranic. Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Kashmiri, Urdu (Undri), Pashto, & Dari are Indo-Iranic languages which means they are related to each other and have a common origin. About 16% of Afghans are linguistically Altaic such as the Uzbeks, Turkomens, etc. These Altaic Afghans are linguistically distinct and unrelated to the Indo-Iranic peoples. Additionally, Pashtuns are racially mostly Caucasoid. Pakistanis are also mostly racially Caucasoid (slightly mixed with a little Dravidoid, Mongoloid, Semitic, Negroid and other few foreign bloodlines). On the other hand, Afghans are only 66% Caucasoid. Hazaras, Turkomens, Uzbeks, (and few Tajiks) etc. are mostly Mongoloid by race.
-Despite the Hazaras being linguistically Indo-Iranic, they share a common Altaic background with Uzbeks, Turkmens, Mongolians and other racially Altaic peoples.
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#107 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 01:25 PM

Quote

Durand Line: A Major Reason of War in Afghanistan

By Asar Hakimi

alt


An interview with Sarwar Jawadi, a prominent political analyst in Kabul

The government of Afghanistan says that it has been trying to negotiate with the Taliban, but has not yet made any significant achievements. In your opinion, what are the main barriers towards negotiations?


The Taliban phenomenon has still not been adequately defined, and there are conflicting ideas. The Taliban emerged mysteriously in Afghanistan; even major intelligence agencies have no comprehensive perception of the Taliban.

Afghanistan’s war has many reasons behind it. First of all, the mafia bands are fighting over poppy cultivation. Estimates say they gain between $100-$400 million per year from poppy, their second highest source of income after arms sales. Internal and international mafia bands are not ready to give up this business. Ninety percent of the world’s opium poppy is produced in Afghanistan, and this business will run quite well as long as insecurity continues.

Even with more than 100,000 foreign troops stationed in Afghanistan, little progress is being made on narcotics. Poppy cultivation has steadily grown. There is evidence that the governments of some countries are helping the mafia with their activities in Afghanistan, perpetuating the conflict.

Another reason behind the war is ethnic identity. Some people in Afghanistan and Pakistan are motivated primarily by ethnic interests and do not want to recognize the Durand Line as the border between the two countries. The border issue is still causing conflict, and those on both sides believe that recognition of the Durand Line has led to ethnic division.

People in the Punjab use this issue to intensify conflict in the region; they fear that the issue of Pashtunistan (reuniting the Pashtun tribes on both sides of the Durand Line) will arise if a Pashtun-dominated government takes power in Afghanistan. This became an issue during the regime of President Daud Khan, and Pakistan still fears that the topic of Pashtunistan will lead to more divisions within the country.

If we consider that the Taliban are motivated by ethnic considerations in Afghanistan, why does Pakistan support them while Pakistan itself is suffering from tribal conflicts?

According to Pakistani extremists, crisis and conflict in Afghanistan is meant to keep the regional tribal groups busy. These groups do not recognize the Durand Line. In the 1990s Pakistan supported the Taliban, enabling them to occupy 80 percent of the country.

The Taliban’s fight against the mujaheddin was neither ideological nor religious in nature; it was an ethnic battle supported from the other side of the Durand Line. Such ethnic issues have led the Afghan government to adopt a passive policy towards terrorism and the Taliban. It is obvious that the Taliban were an ethnic regime; they were fighting for their ethnic interests. Such ethnic motivation remains within the Taliban. There will be no peace and stability in Afghanistan until these ethnic issues are dealt with.

The third reason is the motivation of the other countries in the region. Afghanistan has a strategic location: it borders China, a great economic power. Pakistan, a nuclear power with its conflict with India over Kashmir, is also our neighbor. Iran, an open enemy of the West, particularly the United States, is trying to become a nuclear power. All these factors come together along with the U.S. and NATO presence in Afghanistan to prolong the war.

Some analysts believe that the major powers involved in the war in Afghanistan do not want the conflict to end; are there other reasons for this war besides ethnic issues?

One of the reasons for the war is the Taliban’s ethnic motivation; other reasons include the interests of the mafia and the regional powers. As I mentioned, Afghanistan is trapped in this war for multiple reasons, with ethnicity being the major one. The ethnic issue has led the Afghan government to make wrong decisions. President Hamid Karzai sometimes defends the Taliban and releases their prisoners, and calls off operations against them. On the other hand, the president is not willing to tackle poppy eradication. All these actions show that the Afghan government has no specific plan to fight the Taliban. So the war continues.

War in Afghanistan has also turned into a good business for the mafia, as well as internal and international figures involved in this war. There will be no poppy in Afghanistan if the war ends. Such a situation, along with foreign interference, has caused Karzai to keep one hand in the U.S.’s pocket, the other hand in Iran’s.

Pakistan, as the main supporter of the Taliban, is under pressure these days. Russia has signed an agreement with NATO which could decrease Pakistan’s role. On the other hand, the United States harshly criticized Pakistan for not cooperating honestly in the war on terror. How can all of this help to end the war in Afghanistan?

Both Russia and NATO need each other’s cooperation. It is very important for the United States, Russia and NATO to protect their borders. One of the reasons that NATO deploys its troops in different parts of the world is to defend the safety of its member countries.

Russia in particular has to protect its borders as it inherited many problems from the Soviet Union. Conflicts in Chechnya, Ingushetia and Georgia are challenges for Russia. The United States could put pressure on Pakistan if it really wanted to. But we should not ignore the fact that the British, the U.S. ally in war on terror, support Pakistan. British calls Pakistan a strategic ally in the regional war on terror.
http://www.afghanist...832-jawadi.html

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#108 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 06:16 PM

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#109 User is offline   jamal Icon

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:24 AM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 12 October 2009 - 11:53 AM, said:

I guess your right, its unfornate for the Tajiks. Throughout history we have been in the main fireing line, from the mongols, the Turks, and now the Pushtuns, and we have been subdued well and lost significant terrortorries. About Northern Afghan provinces such as Faryab, Jowszjan and Balkh, are you telling me that Tajiks are even a minority there even though Balkh has been a Great Cultrual city for the Tajiks in the Past ??? ? ??? ?

and about Lowgar province, i thought lowgar was a Tajiks province isnt it or have we also been subdued there an assimilated ??? ??? :huh:


about 60% of logar is tajik althouhg offically it 54% pashtoons and 46% tajiks and recently thay have addad Azar as new province which is majority pashtoon the hole province of azar have no more than 1000-1500 poplation but offically it has 14000 people, not only in logar but in paktia the capital and surrounding 15-20 villages and 2 province are tajiks
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#110 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 02:08 PM

View Postjamal, on 24 May 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

about 60% of logar is tajik althouhg offically it 54% pashtoons and 46% tajiks and recently thay have addad Azar as new province which is majority pashtoon the hole province of azar have no more than 1000-1500 poplation but offically it has 14000 people, not only in logar but in paktia the capital and surrounding 15-20 villages and 2 province are tajiks


Welcome back Jamal brother. That´s no a secret that Yusuf Pashtun, the dirty Awghan Mellat and by no chance the head of MMRD, falsify figures. Every figure of the organizations work differ to 30% from every other sources. We need to diminish him as the head of MRRD because the founder and the prime directer is a Tajik.
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#111 User is offline   shinno Icon

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:37 PM

making Durand line permanent will not have much effect on pakistan, pakistan wants to control Afghanistan and make it its fifth province and they want to make it their sphere of influence so in case of war with India it can rely on Afghanistan. making Afghanistan weak and neutral also insures that Pakistan wants to concentrate its efforts on the eastern border with India. Thats why Pakistan always opposes ANA and other India friendly regimes in Afghanistan. I wish they sign the Durand Line treaty just to see what excuse pakistan will have for its interference after that. i am sure they will find another excuse.
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Posted 27 May 2011 - 09:49 AM

View Postshinno, on 26 May 2011 - 10:37 PM, said:

making Durand line permanent will not have much effect on pakistan, pakistan wants to control Afghanistan and make it its fifth province and they want to make it their sphere of influence so in case of war with India it can rely on Afghanistan. making Afghanistan weak and neutral also insures that Pakistan wants to concentrate its efforts on the eastern border with India. Thats why Pakistan always opposes ANA and other India friendly regimes in Afghanistan. I wish they sign the Durand Line treaty just to see what excuse pakistan will have for its interference after that. i am sure they will find another excuse.


Are you agree that it would be better for non-Pashtuns to apart themself from Pashtuns? Pashtuns are the cause why Pakistan has rooted in Afghanistan.
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#113 User is offline   shinno Icon

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 01:00 PM

View PostParsistani, on 27 May 2011 - 10:49 AM, said:

Are you agree that it would be better for non-Pashtuns to apart themself from Pashtuns? Pashtuns are the cause why Pakistan has rooted in Afghanistan.


I don't know if it will be better. maybe it will maybe not. Its for Tajiks themselve to decide. Maybe there can be a refferendum and people vote to decide what they want. It should be free and fair and no warlords should pressurize the peopple to vote one way or another. I hope this vote took place during the time of Zahir Shah when there was a little peace, now everywhere they is insecurity and also foreign troops.

Its true that certain groups of pashtun are backed by pakistan but to say pakistan is friend of pashtuns is flase. look at the way they bomb the people of waziristan and allowed Taliban to rule Swat. They also killed many tribal elders who didn't support Taliban. They also killed Najib and I have no doubt they had something to do with the killing of Massoud.

If seperating from pashtuns make Tajiks happy and advanced then I support them in their quest. its better to divorce then live in unhappy marriage. As I have said many times before I am not an Afghan nationalist, I want the best for Tajiks, pashtun, hazara and uzbeks.
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#114 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 02:11 PM

View Postshinno, on 27 May 2011 - 02:00 PM, said:

I don't know if it will be better. maybe it will maybe not. Its for Tajiks themselve to decide. Maybe there can be a refferendum and people vote to decide what they want. It should be free and fair and no warlords should pressurize the peopple to vote one way or another. I hope this vote took place during the time of Zahir Shah when there was a little peace, now everywhere they is insecurity and also foreign troops.

Its true that certain groups of pashtun are backed by pakistan but to say pakistan is friend of pashtuns is flase. look at the way they bomb the people of waziristan and allowed Taliban to rule Swat. They also killed many tribal elders who didn't support Taliban. They also killed Najib and I have no doubt they had something to do with the killing of Massoud.

If seperating from pashtuns make Tajiks happy and advanced then I support them in their quest. its better to divorce then live in unhappy marriage. As I have said many times before I am not an Afghan nationalist, I want the best for Tajiks, pashtun, hazara and uzbeks.


That would be perfect for non-Pashtuns. Their misery and unsucces past is closely related with that of Pashtuns and their tribal actions. Non-Pashtuns can not go along with Pashtuns and vice versa. A referendum is always had woren by a leader of a nation. In our case we have many leaders who are working unrelated with eachother and warlords are part of them. Since majority support always their own leaders and warlords they will be able to represent the voice of their people. Under Zahir Shah, the bisexual and drug addicted (Chars) king there was peace but also oppression on non-Pashtuns and their heritage. Alone because of this fact it never happened. Beside that, the house was always interested in it´s own tribe. Today, we are free and represent ourself, our language and heritage that hurt the Pashtuns a lot (therefore we became ''traitors'' or ''Iranians'' who want to bring ''disunity''). Pakistan, the regional player in south-east Asia is of course not the friend of Pashtuns, at least not of Pashtuns in Fata, Khaybar and Afghanistan but neverlessness they support only Pashtuns. Pashtuns self under the banner of ISI and Pakistan killed, jailed, oppressed and raped Pashtuns from the entire regions and those guys are today the dominant part of Pashtun society. They will always fight Pashtuns. The other point is that the so-called ''certain groups'' had no 10 or 20 members but they represented hundred thousands if not the voice of million of Pashtuns. The dream of the fake ''lar o bar'' is based on the shoulders of million Pashtuns. Talibanism is an essential part of Pashtun culture and identity. Tribalism and their tribal nationalism and their fake pride which is no where rooted and have not real basics except in some fake created histories in Puta Khazana and in their oral traditions make them easily to Taliban fighters. That fact was used against a ''Tajik government'' in Kabul by Pakistanis propagating it among Pashtuns (those Pakistanis were mostly self Pashtuns). If Pashtuns would change their national policy toward Pakistan we wouldn´t suffer much, we were never devided such as we are today, we wouldn´t hate eachother or attack any villages of any enemies. But Pashtuns self caused that misery on themself. Always cooperating with the national enemy, calling them to our beautiful Khorasan to kill non-Pashtuns and Pashtuns (I wish it would be only Pashtuns) but at the same time calling for a united Afghanistan. Our nerves and patience are also limited like that of any other nations. If you do not want to cooperate with your own nationals than you get what you deserves. If you think you can oppress non-Pashtuns than you can be sure that tomorrow people like me will fight you with weapons and munitions. We always fought for our own choice and destiny and we will keep fighting. Unfortunately, at the moment it is a bit problematic to apart ourself from the south. One reason is that there are already thoughts about drawing lines, borders, but where exactly and how we can rescue southern Tajiks of Kandahar, Urgun, Khowst, Paktia, Zabul, Nangahar from Pashtun oppression, Pashtunization and dominance. There are some plans but those would just empower the Uzbeks on the left wing which possibly again damage Tajiks. Modern Uzbeks have lost their nobility of yesterday. What do you think about the maps we had already created? They are based on scholaric works in concern to ethnical, geographical and historical importance and compositions of the people in Afghanistan.

http://tajikam.com/f..._40&#entry18624

Your real enemy who kill, beat and rape you but at the same time recruiting Taliban they are fighting against ... Pakistani irony

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