Tajiks Worldwide Community: "Durand line" Is it our (Hazara,Uzbek and Tajik) issue or Pashtuns issue? - Tajiks Worldwide Community

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"Durand line" Is it our (Hazara,Uzbek and Tajik) issue or Pashtuns issue? Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   United Hazara Uzbek Tajik Icon

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 06:22 AM

View PostUnity, on 10 October 2009 - 02:59 PM, said:

that is a proper internationally recognized border not a LINE. so avoid using this term. secondly, who the hell other people are to ask people of NWFP to join afghanistan? they are patriotic pakistanis and will never leave their motherland.

thats the point, which i want to be mentioned!!!
we all are agree that the DURAND LINE is an internationally recognised border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, then why pashatins toke it as an issue and they bring it for discussion in the last time LOYA JIRGA? ??? ??
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#22 User is offline   tajik kabuli Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 01:29 AM

Interestingly Gul Agha in your Map the Republic of Khorasan, in its terrortorries is not included the district of Gardez,Jalalabad, Lowgar, Laghman, Kunar where settlments of Tajiks exist and also Pashais. Also for the Tajiks in other Parts of Afghanistan but also Hazaras and Uzbek aswell. What are you suggesting, that they have to become Pushtunized??? and also i dont think it is far that while we can not lay claim to Helmand, and Kandahar province which have been historically Tajik centers of civilization, but we sohuld at least claim Lowgar wardak, and Gardez ???

any suggestions
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#23 User is offline   tajik kabuli Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 01:38 AM

Historically all current terrortoies in Afghanistan have been part of the Eastern persian sphere, history tells us this, literature tells us this, our struggle and oppresion tells us this. All of Afghanistan belongs to us, you cant really split it because the Tajik populations extend all over but also Hazara and uzbek settlments aswell. Splitting Afghanistan would be against our history our culture, as Afghanistan currently cooresponts to Ancient Aryana (Airyanem Vaejah).


any difering viewsss ??? ???
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#24 User is offline   United Hazara Uzbek Tajik Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:01 AM

View PostUnited Hazara Uzbek Tajik, on 09 October 2009 - 06:34 AM, said:

what problems are created this "Durand line" ??? ??
when it was marked the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan,so we must accept it!!!!!!
accepting the border (Durand line) is in favour of all Hazaras,Uzbeks and Tajiks.
(Long Life Hazara,Uzbek And Tajik Unity)
So what is your opinion? ??? lets start a coooool discussion
.

It is clear that pashatins have made agreement with British in past in the form of GANDOMAK TREATY to give the land to british so it is a nonsense to fight for that given places while the entire country has other much more important problems to be solved.... THE GANDOMAK TREATY is below:http://www.kateb-hazara.net/Maqalat/jangedowmafgh-engl-aliakbar-fayaz.htm
علی اکبر فیاض

جنگ دوم افغانستان و انگلیس و معاهده ی گندمک

(آغاز حمله قوتهای انگلیسی 21 نوامبر 1878- امضای معاهده گندمک 26 می 1879م)

این یادداشت مختصر را به بهانه ی سالروز تجاوز قشون انگلیس در حدود 130سال پیش به خاک افغانستان و در پی آن قرارداد ننگین گندمک به امضا امیر محمد یعقوب خان رسید، می نویسم و به تمام هموطنان شرافتمندم تقدیم کنم.

قشون کشی انگلیس به خاک افغانستان در جنگ دوم افغانستان و انگلیس در حالی آغاز گردید که کشور انگلیس در طول نیم قرن قبل از شروع جنگ، در نیم قاره ی هند نفوذ کرده بود. و در تلاش و تکاپو بود که باحمایت برخی از سران قبایل تضاد و نزاع بین اقوام و قبایل را در افغانستان دامن بزند. در این زمان توانسته بود شاهراه های اتصال افغانستان به دریای آزاد دنیا و ارتباط افغانستان با کشورهای دیگر را تحت تصرف بگیرد. افغانستان را در خشکی محصور کند، تجارت باکشورهای ماورای بحر را به اختلال بکشاند. و تلاش کرد تا سیاست داخلی و خارجی این کشور را در کنترل خود بگیرد. حمایت از شاهزادگان عیاش و تن پرور وفراری از ملت را برای از بین بردن اتحاد و همبستگی مردم افغانستان در عمل اجرا کرد. جنگهای خانمان سوز شاه شجاع و شاه محمود درانی که در نتیجه ی آن بخش عظیمی از مردم افغانستان به خاک و خون کشیده شده در این راستا بود. لشکر کشیها و یاغی گریهای امیر زادگان دوست محمد خان علیه امیر شیرعلی خان در راستای سیاست انگیس و حمایت مستقیم آن کشور بود که سالها افغانستان در آتش آن جنگهای داخلی بین برادران و در آخر بین کاکا و برادر زاده، در گرفت. در نتیجه، انگلیس لشکر کشی به داخل سرزمین های افغانستان و تصرف بخشهای وسیع آن را پلان کرد.



سید جمال الدین افغانی امیر شیر علی خان

از هنگام نزاع شاهزاده های درانی پای قشون انگلیس به خاک افغانستان گذاشته شد. این پروسه داوم داشت تا این که بعد از فوت « امیردوست محمد خان»، «امیرشیرعلی خان» به قدرت رسید. امیر شیرعلی خان به صورت اساسی اعتقاد داشت که افغانستان را مستقلانه اداره کند. اما این امیر زمانی به قدرت رسید که انگلیس سیطره ی خود را با معاهدات نابود کننده ای بر پدرش( امیر دوست محمد خان) تحمیل کرده بود و افغانستان را عملا به محاصره ی سیاسی، نظامی و اقتصادی در آورده بود.

از جانب دیگر بعد چند روز از فوت پدر در شهر هرات، در مقابل برادرانی سرکشی قرار گرفت، که هرکدام بر حصه ای از کشور حکومت می کردند و برای سرنگونی حکومت امیرشیر علی خان ابایی نداشتند که با انگلیس هم همسو گردند. از دیگر سو امیر شیر علی خان اصلاحات فکری و اجتماعی را با استمداد از اندیشه ی سید بزرگوار، سید جمال الدین در نظر داشت که در کشور اعمال کند و این خود در مقابل پروگرام انگلیس بود.

ولی شیر علی خان در طول یک دهه حکومت و جنگ و گریز به هیچ یک از اهدافش نرسید و سید جمال الدین هم افغانستان را ترک کرد. در اواخر امارت ایشان انگلیس که از سیاست مستقلانه ی او به هراس افتاده بود به نهانه هایی قصد حمله به افغانستان را مطرح نمود و بعد از یک مکاتبه با امیر لشکریانش را از هند به طرف افغانستان سرازیر کرد. قبل از این که عساکر انگلیس وارد خاک افغانستان گردند، امیر تحت فشار روانی و تحدید وایسرای انگلیسی هند قرارگرفت و جاسوسانی را هم در اطراف او گمارد، حتی به عنوان مشاور امیر مقرر شده بودند و تمام مشورتهای امیر را خبر می دادند.

امیر که این اوضاع و جنگهای مستمر داخلی با برادران قدرتمندش او را خسته ساخته بود و فرزند مورد علاقه اش عبدالله جان هم فوت شده بود. نامه ی تحدید آمیز انگیسی ها مبنی بر حمله به خاک افغانستان و در پی آن خبر حمله ی همه جانبه قشون انگلیس به خاک افغانستان روان او را تحت فشار قرار داد. وی تصمیم به مسافرت به روسیه گرفت. اما روسها همواره با صداقت رفتار نمی کردند. بلکه روسها در حقیقت در پی منافع خود بودند و در تعامل و معامله با کشور انگلیس بودند نه منافع امیر و افغانستان.

امیر که می خواست از افغانستان خاج شود و از طریق آسیای میانه به دیگر کشور ها سفر نموده به جهانیان اعلام کند که کشور انگیس قصد تجاوز به خاک افغانستان را دارد، قبل از خروج در شهر مزار شریف از دنیا رفت.

امیر محمد یعقوب خان



انگلیس حملات گسترده ای را در21 نوامبر 1878م از سه جهت قندهار، خیبر، و کرم به خاک افغانستان آغاز کرد. امیر که تقریبا کنترل روانی بر اعصاب خود را از دست داده بود، به اردوی افغانستان که 51 هزار سواره نظام داشت، دستور صادر نمود که مقاومت نکند به این ترتیب عساکر انگلیس تمام راهها را به روی خود باز یافتند و از جهت های تعیین شده وارد خاک افغانستان گردیده به طرف کابل مارش کردند.

در کابل بعد از فوت امیر افسران و متنفذین حکومت و عده ای از مردم پسر جوان امیر را به نام محمد یعقوب خان که هشت سال در زندان پدر بود به امیری برگزیدند. امیر جوان نه تنها به مقابله با عساکر متجاوز انگلیسی بر نیامد بلکه به استقبال آنها رفت و« قرارداد ننگین گندمک» را امضاء نمود. بندهای این قرار داد که تماما توسط انگلیسیها ترتیب یافته بود، بدون کدام اعتراض به امضای امیر رسید. تمام بندهای این معاهده به ضرر افغانستان بود. مخصوصا دو بند آن که مردم افغانستان را بنده و نوکر انگلیس می ساخت و حصه های زیادی از خاک افغانستان را به انگلیس واگذار می کرد.

عین بندها را ذکرمی کنیم:

در ماده ی 3 آن قرار داد آمده « 3- امیر افغانستان و ملحقات آن متعهد است که در روابط حکومت های خارجی پابند مشوره با حکومت برتانیه بوده و با این حکومات عهد نبدد و سلاح بر ضد شان برندارد، و در صورت حمله ی خارجی، امداد نظامی و اسلحه و پول انگلیسی به غرض دفاع طوری که انگلیس مناسب داند، استعمال خواهد کرد. ...»

در ماده ی 9 آن معاهده آمده« 9- چون بین دو حکومت طبق آیین معاهده ، دوستی برقرار شده است، حکومت برتانیه شهرهای قندهار، و جلال آباد و علاقه هایی را که اکنون تحت اشغال قشون برتانوی قرار دارد، تخلیه کرده و واپس می سپارد، به استثنای: کرم، پشین، و سیبی(طبق نقشه ی ملحقه) که تحت تسلط و انتظام برتانیه است. امّا این سلطه دائمی نبوده و مالیات آن بعد از وضع مصارف داخلی، سالانه به امیر افغانستان پرداخت خواهد شد. حکومت برتانیه انتظام میچنی و خیبر را که بین پشاور و جلال آباد واقع است در دست خود می گیرد. ....» ( افغانستان در مسیر تاریخ ؛ میر غلام محمد غبار،نشر کانون مهاجر، چاپ دوم، ایران، قم، صص610و611 1359ش.)

در این دو مورد مرحوم میر غلام محمد غبار می نویسد:« بدین طریق امیر محمد یعقوب خان یک سلسله جبال صعب المرور را با ساکنین دلیر آن که سپر افغانستان در شرق کشور به مقابل هجوم استعمار بود، باعلاقه ی کرم تا ابتدای جاجی، دره ی هیبتناک خیبر تا کناره ی شرقی هفت چاه، لندی کوتل و سیبی و پشین را تا کوه کوژک و استقلال کشور افغانستان را یک جا و رسما به دشمن تسلیم نمود و دست اجنبی را در داخل افغانستان باز گذاشت.» ( غبار، 1359ش. ص611)

به این صورت در دوّمین هجوم قشون استعماری انگلیس در قرن نوزده به خاک افغانستان، بخشهایی از این خاک جداشده و استقلال داخلی و خارجی از بین رفت.

بعد از هجوم پیروز مندانه ی انگلیس به افغانستان در 26 ماه می 1879م قراداد ننگین گندمک را از طرف افغانستان امیرمحمد یعقوب خان و از طرف انگلیس افسران: کیوناری و لیتن امضاء کردند.
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#25 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:19 AM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 12 October 2009 - 02:29 AM, said:

Interestingly Gul Agha in your Map the Republic of Khorasan, in its terrortorries is not included the district of Gardez,Jalalabad, Lowgar, Laghman, Kunar where settlments of Tajiks exist and also Pashais. Also for the Tajiks in other Parts of Afghanistan but also Hazaras and Uzbek aswell. What are you suggesting, that they have to become Pushtunized??? and also i dont think it is far that while we can not lay claim to Helmand, and Kandahar province which have been historically Tajik centers of civilization, but we sohuld at least claim Lowgar wardak, and Gardez ???

any suggestions


the Tajiks of the south should move to the north in order for them to be safe. I am not saying that we should forget about Kandahar,Zabul,Nangarhar..etc permenantly. We have to use gradualism just how Israelis used it and we will become successful. We should first secure western central and northern Afghanistan for ourselves by partitioning Afghanistan then the next step will be to liberate regions like modern-day Southeastern Afghanistan, Southern Uzbekistan, and Merv.
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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#26 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:20 AM

In this map, Pashai and Nuristani regions are in Khorasan not Afghanistan.
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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#27 User is offline   shabir Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:44 AM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 12 October 2009 - 01:29 AM, said:

Interestingly Gul Agha in your Map the Republic of Khorasan, in its terrortorries is not included the district of Gardez,Jalalabad, Lowgar, Laghman, Kunar where settlments of Tajiks exist and also Pashais. Also for the Tajiks in other Parts of Afghanistan but also Hazaras and Uzbek aswell. What are you suggesting, that they have to become Pushtunized??? and also i dont think it is far that while we can not lay claim to Helmand, and Kandahar province which have been historically Tajik centers of civilization, but we sohuld at least claim Lowgar wardak, and Gardez ???

any suggestions

whether its fair or not, whichever ethnic rules the region can claim that region. pashtuns 're majority in wardak & same in logar. hazaras came to afghanistan 1500 yrs ago & we can say they own hazarajat now & usbeks came to afghanistan only few decades ago but still they claim balkh, maymanah & etc to be theirs. we cant even keep our own areas safe from pashtuns so how can we expect to get our lost land back from them? we werent able to do anything past 3 centuries so lets see what we can do now
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#28 User is offline   shabir Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:51 AM

View PostGul agha, on 12 October 2009 - 04:19 AM, said:

the Tajiks of the south should move to the north in order for them to be safe. I am not saying that we should forget about Kandahar,Zabul,Nangarhar..etc permenantly. We have to use gradualism just how Israelis used it and we will become successful. We should first secure western central and northern Afghanistan for ourselves by partitioning Afghanistan then the next step will be to liberate regions like modern-day Southeastern Afghanistan, Southern Uzbekistan, and Merv.

to my hearing came that tajiks in south 're happy there. a good mate of mine back in high school was kandahari tajik from his mothers side & pashtun from fathers side & by seeing his family & those tajiks from south of afghanistan he was in touch with, they only seemed positive about their areas & happy as well. so how 'll we convince them to leave their land, even if its temporarily, 'cause trust me, nor 'll pashtuns leave the north easily. nangarhar btw is a complete pashtunized region with alot of pashtun nationalists & we lost it very easily but regaining it is nearly impossible. & dont forget israel had western support 'cause of which they easily reclaimed their lost land, but whose support do we 've? its very important to 've a mutual support 'cause nowadays without western support u aint nowhere. thats a fact
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#29 User is offline   tajik kabuli Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:53 AM

I guess your right, its unfornate for the Tajiks. Throughout history we have been in the main fireing line, from the mongols, the Turks, and now the Pushtuns, and we have been subdued well and lost significant terrortorries. About Northern Afghan provinces such as Faryab, Jowszjan and Balkh, are you telling me that Tajiks are even a minority there even though Balkh has been a Great Cultrual city for the Tajiks in the Past ??? ? ??? ?

and about Lowgar province, i thought lowgar was a Tajiks province isnt it or have we also been subdued there an assimilated ??? ??? :huh:
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#30 User is offline   shabir Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 12:04 PM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 12 October 2009 - 11:53 AM, said:

I guess your right, its unfornate for the Tajiks. Throughout history we have been in the main fireing line, from the mongols, the Turks, and now the Pushtuns, and we have been subdued well and lost significant terrortorries. About Northern Afghan provinces such as Faryab, Jowszjan and Balkh, are you telling me that Tajiks are even a minority there even though Balkh has been a Great Cultrual city for the Tajiks in the Past ??? ? ??? ?

and about Lowgar province, i thought lowgar was a Tajiks province isnt it or have we also been subdued there an assimilated ??? ??? :huh:

all northern areas 're ours, from balkh to faryab etc. but since usbeks live there I 've seen their attitude, they act as if the entire place is theirs. especially in faryab, I 've personally seen it 'cause of which I am turned off from usbeks, permanantly. 'cause they got american support they think they 're capable of everything. & logar got huge number of pashtuns & even the name is adapted from pashto words. forgot the words but its hugely influenced by pashto. I blame us tajiks as well for losing land to every1: to usbeks, turks, mongols, pashtuns & u name it! our forefathers might 've been helpless 'cause of whatever but now its our duty to protect whatever we got before we lose everythign!
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 12:11 PM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 09 October 2009 - 01:47 PM, said:

Number one fore the United hazara uzbek guy who said that we should give southern Afghnistan to pakistan. Why is that my friend that is a spit to the face of Afghanistan when you say that, and it is a victory for Pakistan because they indeed will take the land. And also southern Afghanistan isnt just Pushtuns ther are also important and ancient Tajik concentrations in Kandhar, Helmand etc. What you should be saying my friend is that we should all work towards reconciliation and build our great nation that is Afghanistan which has such great history. They are also uzbek and hazara people in southern Afghanistan aswell so you should be cinsidering that aswell my friend.

Early you also stated that we have faith in Uzbek Tajik Hazara unity as the Nothern Alliacen proved but this wasnt ther case in the early 90s heb wahdat committed massacres against the tajik population of Kabul and this has been proven by human rights organization, and similar has also happened among other ethncities. The most important thing is that we should execute all warlords and educate you youth.

exactly. well said
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 12:30 PM

View Postshabir, on 12 October 2009 - 10:04 PM, said:

all northern areas 're ours, from balkh to faryab etc. but since usbeks live there I 've seen their attitude, they act as if the entire place is theirs. especially in faryab, I 've personally seen it 'cause of which I am turned off from usbeks, permanantly. 'cause they got american support they think they 're capable of everything. & logar got huge number of pashtuns & even the name is adapted from pashto words. forgot the words but its hugely influenced by pashto. I blame us tajiks as well for losing land to every1: to usbeks, turks, mongols, pashtuns & u name it! our forefathers might 've been helpless 'cause of whatever but now its our duty to protect whatever we got before we lose everythign!


Yerrr the uzbeks are arrogant towards Tajiks in Northern Afghanistan, iv heard cases that Tajik girls have been raped by jumbish men. Its our fault because we also tended to assimilate to every group like intermingle with them, we were to cosmopolitan, to urban, to peaceful, we didnt regard our own nationality, culture, and evven today tajiks first regard themselves Afghan and then Tajik, most Tajiks spewciallyy in Kabul and other areas are of mixed ancestors for example myself from my my dads mother side are from Kandahar. Tajiks out of all the ethnicites should be grieving the most, we were subdued by the turks and we lost most of Northern Ancient Tajik lands such as Sogdiana, to Turks/Uzbeks and look at Tajiiks in uzbekistan now they are subdued by the Uzbeks, and Tajiks books are burned, and the use of Uzbek language is incouraged that what i call cultrual genocide and i dont want it to be the case for the Tajiks of Afghanistan. Lukily out of all the ethncities in Afghansitan Tajiks have contributed the most to the arts and culture of Afghanistan, from cuisine to music, and even though the fascists want to undermine persian language i dont think persian language is going to be in demise anymore.


any differing views or opinions ??? ???
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 12:35 PM

View PostGul agha, on 12 October 2009 - 02:19 PM, said:

the Tajiks of the south should move to the north in order for them to be safe. I am not saying that we should forget about Kandahar,Zabul,Nangarhar..etc permenantly. We have to use gradualism just how Israelis used it and we will become successful. We should first secure western central and northern Afghanistan for ourselves by partitioning Afghanistan then the next step will be to liberate regions like modern-day Southeastern Afghanistan, Southern Uzbekistan, and Merv.


If you want to use the jwes as an example you should use them as an inspiration. If you look at world today the jewish population worldwide is a mere something like 12-14 million compared to Islam and christianity which are over a billion. Tajiks can use them as an inspiration for Afghanistan, work hard, control all the vital resources, promote culture, and the pushtuns simply would be able to do anything. This is the path that we should follow the path of Eastern persio, Tajik cultrual reinissance in Afghanistan instead of cedding terrortories to Pakistan of whoever. That is not the Tajik way did the Ghaznwais to that, did the samanids to that, did the Ghorids to that etc .

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#34 User is offline   United Hazara Uzbek Tajik Icon

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:43 PM

PASHTONS: WHO ALWAYS SOLD OUR LAND TO OTHERS!!!! READ ABOUT THEIR REALITIES,
http://en.wikipedia....aty_of_Gandomak
The Treaty of Gandamak officially ended the first phase of the Second Anglo-Afghan War. Afghanistan ceded various frontier areas to Britain to prevent invasion of further areas of the country. It was signed by the emir of Afghanistan, Mohammad Yaqub Khan and Sir Pierre Louis Napoleon Cavagnari representing the Britishs Government of India on 26 May 1879, at a British army camp near the village of Gandomak, about seventy miles east of Kabul, The treaty was ratified by Lord Edward Robert Bulwer Lytton, Viceroy of India, on 30 May 1879. Most historical writings consider the Treaty of Gandomak as the prelude to the second phase of the Second Anglo-Afghan War, 1879-1880.
Background
On 22 July 1878 a Russian delegation arrived in Kabul without the explicit invitation of Ameer Sher Ali Khan. To counteract the Russian initiative the British, in early August 1878, informed the Amir that he must receive a British mission that included European members "with all becoming honors" [1]. The mission was denied entry into Afghanistan at the Afghan military post of Ali Masjid in the Khyber pass on 21 September. In retaliation, the British Government of India issued an ultimatum that by 20 November 1878 the Amir must apologize and provide a satisfactory explanation for the insult. Sher Ali's response of 19 November 1878, delayed by the death of his son and heir apparent on 17 August, did not reach the Viceroy until 30 November, and lacked an apology [2]. On 21 November the British declared war on Afghanistan, occupied the Korram valley and the Paywar pass, and moved its armed forces via the Khaybar pass and Quetta towards Jalalabad and Qandahar, respectively. Unable to offer effective military resistance, on 23 December 1878, the Amir left Kabul for Turkestan, intending to seek Russian aid for the defense of his domains. Sher Ali died on 21 February 1879 near Balkh and his son, Mohammad Yaqub Khan, declared himself Emir of Afghanistan. On 26 May 1879, after preliminary correspondence with Cavagnari and prior to the British withdrawal from most occupied Afghan territories, Muhammad Yaqub's request for permission to visit the British military camp was accepted, and so he proceeded there to sign the Treaty of Gandomak, considered one of the most humiliating ever signed by an Afghan ruler [3], making the Afghan Amir virtually a feudatory of the British Crown
Settlements
"His Highness the Amir of Afghanistan and its depen-dencies engages, on the exchange of the ratifications of this Treaty, to publish a full and complete amnesty, absolving all his subjects from any responsibility for intercourse with the British forces during the war, and to guarantee and protect all persons of whatever degree from any punishment or molestation on that account.

His Highness the Amir of Afghanistan and its depen-dencies agrees to conduct his relations with Foreign States in accordance with the advice and wishes of the British Government. His Highness the Amir will enter into no engagements with Foreign States, and will not take up arms against any Foreign State, except with the concurrence of the British Government. On these conditions the British Government will support the Amir against any foreign aggression with money, arms, or troops, to be employed in whatsoever manner the British Government may judge best for this purpose. Should British troops at any time enter Afghanistan for the purpose of repelling foreign aggression, they will return to their stations in British territory as soon as the object for which they entered has been accomplished."
First section of the treaty[5]

Under the provisions of the treaty the Amir surrendered control to the British over the foreign relations of Afghanistan and allowed for a British Mission, with European members, to reside in Kabul. Jurisdiction over the Korram and Pishin valleys, the Sibi district, and the Khaybar pass was transferred to the British. The treaty provided for increased commercial contacts and the establishment of a telegraph line between Kabul and British India. Muhammad Yaqub was to receive an annual subsidy of 600,000 rupees and to issue amnesty to all those who had collaborated with the British occupying forces. The British Mission led by Cavagnari arrived in Kabul on 24 July 1879. On 3 September 1879, a dissatisfied regiment of the Amir's army from Herat stormed the mission compound and massacred all its members, including Cavagnari. The event set the stage for another British invasion of Afghanistan, the expulsion of Muhammad Yaqub to India, and the Second Anglo-Afghan War, which culminated in the British appointment of Abdur Rahman (ruled 22 July 1880 - 1 October 1901), patrilateral parallel cousin of Yaqub, as Amir of Afghanistan. Abdur Rahman accepted, in principle, the provisions of the Treaty of Gandomak with the modification that the British agent and his staff in Kabul would be Indian Muslims.
Tuffff!!!!!! Pashatins.
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 09:33 PM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 12 October 2009 - 12:53 PM, said:

I guess your right, its unfornate for the Tajiks. Throughout history we have been in the main fireing line, from the mongols, the Turks, and now the Pushtuns, and we have been subdued well and lost significant terrortorries. About Northern Afghan provinces such as Faryab, Jowszjan and Balkh, are you telling me that Tajiks are even a minority there even though Balkh has been a Great Cultrual city for the Tajiks in the Past ??? ? ??? ?

and about Lowgar province, i thought lowgar was a Tajiks province isnt it or have we also been subdued there an assimilated ??? ??? :huh:


the ethnic majority in Balkh are Tajiks not Uzbeks or Pashtuns. Balkh and Samangan are 100% in our hands, thanks to Ustad Atta. Anyone who claims Balkh is still under Uzbek influence has no information at all about Northern afghanistan's current situation. Uzbeks and Hazaras today are very weak and they have no military wing left in their parties. The only armed militia in Northern Afghanistan are controlled by us.

half of Logar is still Tajik.
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Posted 12 October 2009 - 09:37 PM

View Postshabir, on 12 October 2009 - 12:51 PM, said:

to my hearing came that tajiks in south 're happy there. a good mate of mine back in high school was kandahari tajik from his mothers side & pashtun from fathers side & by seeing his family & those tajiks from south of afghanistan he was in touch with, they only seemed positive about their areas & happy as well. so how 'll we convince them to leave their land, even if its temporarily, 'cause trust me, nor 'll pashtuns leave the north easily. nangarhar btw is a complete pashtunized region with alot of pashtun nationalists & we lost it very easily but regaining it is nearly impossible. & dont forget israel had western support 'cause of which they easily reclaimed their lost land, but whose support do we 've? its very important to 've a mutual support 'cause nowadays without western support u aint nowhere. thats a fact


Your Pashtun friend was wrong. The Tajiks in the south are discriminated against by Pashtuns because they are Shia. You cannot find one Persian school in southern Afghanistan and all of these Tajiks who live in Kandahar and other parts of S Afghanistan live in ghettos and are segregated by the rest of the population.

Most of the Naqeleen (Pashtuns of the north) left Northern Afghanistan after the Taliban regime. Right now only a few nomads and a few Pashtun groups who have become Tajikized only live there.
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:25 AM

View PostGul agha, on 13 October 2009 - 07:33 AM, said:

the ethnic majority in Balkh are Tajiks not Uzbeks or Pashtuns. Balkh and Samangan are 100% in our hands, thanks to Ustad Atta. Anyone who claims Balkh is still under Uzbek influence has no information at all about Northern afghanistan's current situation. Uzbeks and Hazaras today are very weak and they have no military wing left in their parties. The only armed militia in Northern Afghanistan are controlled by us.

half of Logar is still Tajik.


What do you mean Hazara and uzbek are weak they have no military wing. Dostum just came back from exile in Turkey and jumbish still exists in Northern Afghanistan, and there is constant battle for its control between dostum and atta, same applies to the Hazaras and Hezb wahdat, while officially they dont exist any more they still have armed militias which control districts.

What about other parts of Northern Afghanistan such as jowszjan, faryab, kunduz, takhar, and baghlan are they under tajik control? ??? in terms of population and control? ??? ?
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:39 AM

View PostGul agha, on 11 October 2009 - 05:16 AM, said:

Tajik Kabuli gerami there is no hope for Afghanistan. The only workable solution left for this failed state is disintegration into two different political entities. a reletively peaceful democratic north and a Talib runned emirate in the south. This is what the people want and what will truly happen in the near future.

Blue: Republic of Khorasan
Red: Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan

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Gul Agha you must understand that yes the Talib are a vicious, barbaric, fascist, racist, primitive, backward group but the reason that they have so much influence is because of forign influence from Pakistan (ISI), with out foriegn influence they are nothing. You cant just have a grudge against all Pushtuns, there are some very good pushtuns who are social activists for our causes aswell (Mohammad Najibullah). And are also against the Taliban and other fascist extreme elements just like as. Before the war started in Afghanistan there wasnt that much animosity between Afghanistans ethnic grooups like today, though there were still Afghan mellatis but that exiists in every country. My point is that woulkd shouldnt be advocating this disintergration of Afghanistan, because ultimately it will not serve our interests, because the ethnic distribution will even become more unequal with no clear majorities and conflicts will occur, as it has in the past. Forign nation of coarse would like to see this happen, so they can impose on our weaker states, but we shouldnt let this happen. Instead what you should be advocating is educating the youth, reconciliation, civil rights etc. Having animosity towards Pushtuns wont help our cause either because at the end of the day they are the majority ehtnic group in Afghanistan, so it is important to coopperate with them for the sake of reconciliation in Afghanistan, for all ethnic groups to live peacefully side by side Tajiks, Hazara, pusthtun, uzbek etc. The example that you should follows is Latif Pedrams example of a federal ssystem in Afghanistan. This will be more effective

any differing opinions? ??? ??
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:48 AM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 13 October 2009 - 05:25 AM, said:

What do you mean Hazara and uzbek are weak they have no military wing. Dostum just came back from exile in Turkey and jumbish still exists in Northern Afghanistan, and there is constant battle for its control between dostum and atta, same applies to the Hazaras and Hezb wahdat, while officially they dont exist any more they still have armed militias which control districts.

What about other parts of Northern Afghanistan such as jowszjan, faryab, kunduz, takhar, and baghlan are they under tajik control? ??? in terms of population and control? ??? ?


Dostum or hezb Wahdat does not control one inch of Balkh province today. every single district is under Atta's control, this has been the case for the last 4 years. Junbish is disarmed in all provinces except Jowzjan and tey have no heavy artilary just some men armed with rifles. When Dostum returned from exile he wasn't even able to enter Mazari Sharif and Atta escorted him and his men from Samangan to the border of Balkh province and Jowzjan. This showed how weak he was. There is no office of Junbish or Wahdat in Balkh province today and 95% of the illegal Uzbeks and Hazaras which migrated to Balkh during Dostum's rule has been removed from the province. If you visit Balkh today you will feel that you are in Khorasan, not Afghanistan or Turkistan.

every single province in northern Afghanistan is under our control except Jowzjan.
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Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:54 AM

View Posttajik kabuli, on 13 October 2009 - 05:39 AM, said:

Gul Agha you must understand that yes the Talib are a vicious, barbaric, fascist, racist, primitive, backward group but the reason that they have so much influence is because of forign influence from Pakistan (ISI), with out foriegn influence they are nothing. You cant just have a grudge against all Pushtuns, there are some very good pushtuns who are social activists for our causes aswell (Mohammad Najibullah). And are also against the Taliban and other fascist extreme elements just like as. Before the war started in Afghanistan there wasnt that much animosity between Afghanistans ethnic grooups like today, though there were still Afghan mellatis but that exiists in every country. My point is that woulkd shouldnt be advocating this disintergration of Afghanistan, because ultimately it will not serve our interests, because the ethnic distribution will even become more unequal with no clear majorities and conflicts will occur, as it has in the past. Forign nation of coarse would like to see this happen, so they can impose on our weaker states, but we shouldnt let this happen. Instead what you should be advocating is educating the youth, reconciliation, civil rights etc. Having animosity towards Pushtuns wont help our cause either because at the end of the day they are the majority ehtnic group in Afghanistan, so it is important to coopperate with them for the sake of reconciliation in Afghanistan, for all ethnic groups to live peacefully side by side Tajiks, Hazara, pusthtun, uzbek etc. The example that you should follows is Latif Pedrams example of a federal ssystem in Afghanistan. This will be more effective

any differing opinions? ??? ??


Federalism is not accepted by the Pashtuns so we should cross that out of our list. The only solution left is disintegration and we Tajiks should accept it now. There is no more solutions and alternatives left for this failed state and de facto wise disintegration has already happened the only thing that is left is to partition it through a legal process.

Dr Najibullah Ahmadzai was an ultra-nationalist and he only served Pashtun interests in his government. His fascistic policies and ideology lead most Tajik Parchamis to join Ahmad Shah Masood and help Shaheed Masood overthrow Najib's government.
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