Tajiks Worldwide Community: Use of ligatures - Tajiks Worldwide Community

Jump to content

Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox

Parsistani Icon : (04 January 2016 - 10:02 PM) Someone here?
parwana Icon : (30 April 2014 - 05:21 PM) Posted Image
Parsistani Icon : (22 July 2013 - 04:02 AM) good morning :)
Gul agha Icon : (03 May 2013 - 04:29 PM) Sohrab, Tajikam doesn't only consist of a forum. We have two major sections in this website. One is in Persian which is updated frequently and the other is in Persian (Cyrillic). Additionally, the English page is still running and has a vast amount of information on Tajiks and Persians.
Gul agha Icon : (03 May 2013 - 04:27 PM) http://www.facebook.com/Tajikamsite
Sohrab Icon : (01 May 2013 - 06:31 AM) Tajikam on facebook?
SHA DOKHT Icon : (01 May 2013 - 12:12 AM) Like our page on Facebook: https://www.facebook...541604162529143
Sohrab Icon : (29 March 2013 - 08:31 AM) H again, I thought the site would be closed, but it's still running.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:17 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:16 AM) hellow
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 09:46 AM) hellow
Gabaro_glt Icon : (25 March 2013 - 10:48 AM) Asssssssssalam o Alaikum
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:22 AM) I would like to here something from a tajik brother/sister living in Tajikstan
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:20 AM) I have traced my ancestors migrated from Panj and Balkh ancient
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:19 AM) I am desendant of Sultan behram Gabari Tajik living in GilGit pakistan
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:17 AM) Salam to all brothers
Parsistani Icon : (01 June 2012 - 10:48 AM) we are on facebook. Tajikam on facebook
Parsistani Icon : (01 June 2012 - 10:47 AM) salam guys.
Azim-khan Icon : (19 May 2012 - 11:19 AM) salom bachaho )
Resize Shouts Area

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Use of ligatures Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Paul Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
20
Joined:
02-December 09
Location:
Manchester

Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:16 AM

Hi
I was looking at some Tajik writing specifically the visa application form in tajik at
http://www.tajembass...uk/consular.htm
and there were some letters I did not find in my new book.
Њ and Љ for example.
The look like a H and a L followed by a soft sign (that's what I would think from Russian) , the former seems to be the first letter in the word YES as in
ЊА
Are these in fact ligatures and are there any others I might come across?
Finally there is an 'i' with two dots above it as in the last letter of
Њолати оилавї (marital status?)
Don't see this character on the keyboard for tajik on Windows 7 so could someone let me know what it is and how you pronounce it :-)

Regards Paul
0

#2 User is offline   PORS Icon

  • AZADANDESH
  • Icon
Group:
Administrators
Posts:
740
Joined:
30-May 07

Posted 22 December 2009 - 02:05 AM

Paul,

As I noted in my previous post, back in the days people used to install Tajik made Cyrillic fonts on their computers and typed their documents. If they wanted to print their document on some other computer they had to grab their fonts with them and install Tajik/Persian Cyrillic fonts on that computer. If they did not, then the fonts would appear weird, like the one you have noticed on the Tajik version of visa application. There is no such letter (Њ and Љ) in current alphabet of Tajikistan. Sorry for the confusion.

I have contacted the Tajik Embassy in UK and asked them to correct and update the information as soon as possible. It is very sad to see no activity or information update on their website. I hope this will change in near future.

Thank you,



- Pors

View PostPaul, on 21 December 2009 - 04:16 AM, said:

Hi
I was looking at some Tajik writing specifically the visa application form in tajik at
http://www.tajembass...uk/consular.htm
and there were some letters I did not find in my new book.
Њ and Љ for example.
The look like a H and a L followed by a soft sign (that's what I would think from Russian) , the former seems to be the first letter in the word YES as in
ЊА
Are these in fact ligatures and are there any others I might come across?
Finally there is an 'i' with two dots above it as in the last letter of
Њолати оилавї (marital status?)
Don't see this character on the keyboard for tajik on Windows 7 so could someone let me know what it is and how you pronounce it :-)

Regards Paul

از گذشته بیاموز ،امروز را با خشنودی بگذران. در اندیشه اینده باش و اینده را بساز. - پارس
_______________________________________
THINK RIGHT>SAY RIGHT>ACT RIGHT!
پندار نیک > گفتار نیک > رفتار نیک
PENDARE NEK>GOFTARE NEK>RAFTARE NEK!
0

#3 User is offline   Paul Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
20
Joined:
02-December 09
Location:
Manchester

Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:04 AM

View PostPORS, on 22 December 2009 - 02:05 AM, said:

Paul,

As I noted in my previous post, back in the days people used to install Tajik made Cyrillic fonts on their computers and typed their documents. If they wanted to print their document on some other computer they had to grab their fonts with them and install Tajik/Persian Cyrillic fonts on that computer. If they did not, then the fonts would appear weird, like the one you have noticed on the Tajik version of visa application. There is no such letter (Њ and Љ) in current alphabet of Tajikistan. Sorry for the confusion.

I have contacted the Tajik Embassy in UK and asked them to correct and update the information as soon as possible. It is very sad to see no activity or information update on their website. I hope this will change in near future.

Thank you,



- Pors

Thanks!
Working in linguistics for too long, sometimes I don't see the obvious answer!
Now don't get me started on fonts :-)

Paul
0

#4 User is offline   PORS Icon

  • AZADANDESH
  • Icon
Group:
Administrators
Posts:
740
Joined:
30-May 07

Posted 24 December 2009 - 05:42 AM

Paul,

How long have you been studying linguistics? Is Tajik/Persian your third or fifth language? Are you a teacher?


- Pors


View PostPaul, on 23 December 2009 - 05:04 AM, said:

Thanks!
Working in linguistics for too long, sometimes I don't see the obvious answer!
Now don't get me started on fonts :-)

Paul

از گذشته بیاموز ،امروز را با خشنودی بگذران. در اندیشه اینده باش و اینده را بساز. - پارس
_______________________________________
THINK RIGHT>SAY RIGHT>ACT RIGHT!
پندار نیک > گفتار نیک > رفتار نیک
PENDARE NEK>GOFTARE NEK>RAFTARE NEK!
0

#5 User is offline   Paul Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
20
Joined:
02-December 09
Location:
Manchester

Posted 25 December 2009 - 06:59 PM

View PostPORS, on 24 December 2009 - 05:42 AM, said:

Paul,

How long have you been studying linguistics? Is Tajik/Persian your third or fifth language? Are you a teacher?


- Pors

Hi

I work at Manchester University in an IT role but a large part was in the School of Computational Linguistics.
The unit is now closed but we specialised in getting computers to use natural languages.
Things like Machine Translation systems, speech recognition and generation, part of speech taggers and morphological analysers, that sort of stuff.
I know more computer languages than natural languages (a prerequist of the job) but enjoy languages all the same.
In order of competence I would say English, French, Russian, Estonian but hope to get some Tajik/Persian in the near future :-)
Regards Paul
0

#6 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,094
Joined:
22-May 07

Posted 25 December 2009 - 07:09 PM

View PostPaul, on 25 December 2009 - 06:59 PM, said:

Hi

I work at Manchester University in an IT role but a large part was in the School of Computational Linguistics.
The unit is now closed but we specialised in getting computers to use natural languages.
Things like Machine Translation systems, speech recognition and generation, part of speech taggers and morphological analysers, that sort of stuff.
I know more computer languages than natural languages (a prerequist of the job) but enjoy languages all the same.
In order of competence I would say English, French, Russian, Estonian but hope to get some Tajik/Persian in the near future :-)
Regards Paul



Dorood and a big hello dear Paul,

what kind of Mashin Translation Systems are you using or developing? Do you have also some for Persian-English, English-Persian? In Germany, we have worked with a company on a translater with German to Persian and Persian to German translation. You get not only single words, but also entire phrases translated. Of course, the program is not professional but at most time it works and can help most people.
0

#7 User is offline   Paul Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
20
Joined:
02-December 09
Location:
Manchester

Posted 26 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

View PostParsistani, on 25 December 2009 - 07:09 PM, said:

Dorood and a big hello dear Paul,

what kind of Mashin Translation Systems are you using or developing? Do you have also some for Persian-English, English-Persian? In Germany, we have worked with a company on a translater with German to Persian and Persian to German translation. You get not only single words, but also entire phrases translated. Of course, the program is not professional but at most time it works and can help most people.


I was working on Statistical Machine Translation systems mainly. The idea is you take pairs of sentences in the langages you are interested. Then from them firstly you generate a statistical bilingual dictionary using the correlation between the words in the pairs. Say you see the word "раҳмат" in a lot of Tajik sentences and in their English equivalent you see that there was an equivalent number of the words "thank" and "you" you guess this is not a coincidence. In languages with free word order you can notice that instead of the word order Subject Verb Object in English or Subject Object Verb i.e. Persian and therefore perhaps Tajik?? you have a case ending such as the accusative endings in Russian.
Also languages which can drop pronouns often produce shorter translations on a sentence to sentence basis and your system cam measure this so it knows if say translating from Russian to English if you see работаю this maps to two words in English.
From all this you can build up an idea of the probability of the words used, their positions and any extra words in a translation.
Take all this information, through it in a decoder and voila!
Basically you take all this information and build options for translations.
It's not perfect nor ever can totally be but it's better than nothing.
What I like about such systems is you can start with a very little understanding of the meanings, it's purely computational then get someone who really knows the langauges and improve the system.
In the Estonian to English system I built, adding a little morphological processing hugely improved performance.
Anyway I find it fun!

Regards Paul
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users