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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Tajik, no self-designation, a danger for Afghanistan Tajiks!!! Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 09:44 AM

I do not say he is our enemy. I say if he will so think about our nation his opinion does not differ from opinions of our enemies.
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#22 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 09:50 AM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;3393] But this time they cannot deceive us. If you think so about us, you do not differ from our enemies.[/QUOTE]

this is what you said.
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#23 User is offline   TajMahal Icon

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 01:19 PM

[QUOTE=Gul agha;3368]Tajik is an ethnicity not a Nationality. Most Tajiks live outside Tajikistan just how most pashtuns live outside Afghanistan. Khorasani is not an ethnicity but a geographical term for someone who is from Khorasan(ex. someone from Bukhara is called Bukhari but there are Tajik Bukharis and Uzbek Bukharis today).[/QUOTE]

Tajik is not a self-designation. The people called themself Bactrians, Soghdians, Kabulis etc. Tajik was maybe used by Indians and other foreigners like Chinese who used Ta-Hia for Bactrians and from earlier time we know they called the Kushanians as Ta-Yuechti from which Tajiks drives. But there is no any evidance that Tajik was and is a self-designation. The Kushanas called themself as Bactrians. Tajik nationalists don
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#24 User is offline   TajMahal Icon

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 01:42 PM

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;3386]it will bring even more confusion, trust me. can you tell a person from tajikistan to call himself a khorasani?[/QUOTE]

Who said Tajikistanis haev to call themself also as Khurasanians? They are not ''immigrants'', they already live in a country called Tajikistan and they are the total majority. Why should Tajik and Khurasani bring confusion? Every Tajik know who Khurasanians were. Your statements don
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#25 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 02:55 PM

[QUOTE=TajMahal;3404] They are not ''immigrants'', they already live in a country called Tajikistan and they are the total majority. [/QUOTE]

do you mean we are immigrants in afghanistan or what? hope you dont mean this.
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#26 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 02:59 PM

[QUOTE=TajMahal;3404] Why should Tajik and Khurasani bring confusion? Every Tajik know who Khurasanians were. Your statements don
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#27 User is offline   TajMahal Icon

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 01:29 PM

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;3406]do you mean we are immigrants in afghanistan or what? hope you dont mean this.[/QUOTE]

yes, it means we ''Tajiks'' are from Tajikistan and we are immigrants. Khurasan was the name of a region but also people called themself identified themself with Khurasan. If you say your a Tajik people think you r from Tajikistan. We have to use Khurasan to make clear we are from that country that we call today Afghanistan and we are the originally inhabitent with some minorities like Ormurs. Tajikistanis can call themself Tajiks. When we reached our aims that we can cal ourself again Tajik or the Tajikistanis call themself as Khurasanians.
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#28 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 11:37 PM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;3396]I do not say he is our enemy. I say if he will so think about our nation his opinion does not differ from opinions of our enemies.[/QUOTE]

You are too jumpy. I am not your enemy, I just pointed out the fact that Tajik regions of Afghanistan are not geographically contiguous - one part in the West around Herat, another part in the Northeast. So if you plan a Tajik-only country, it will be split into two parts. I did not say Herat WILL join Iran or that Iran even wants that part, but that it would be more likely to be absorbed into Iran in the future due to geography, and Panjsher area and other Tajik areas are more likely to be absrobed into tajikstan. If you widen your definition to Khorasani then you can make a Khorasani country all over northern Afghanistan, but Tajik only will get you two isolated areas. Now these are facts and not my opinion. No need to get angry over facts. If you want to use your anger constructively do something for Tajiks. What are you going to do except bash doodooli ?
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#29 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 01:22 AM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;3394]During Samanids our ancestors named themselves on cities: samarqandi, bukhar, balkhi. kobuli, rudaki, ... Your ancestors too named themselves persians (from Persia). Then there was no concept ofnation then religion was important. Today we are Tajiks and always we shall be Tajiks.[/QUOTE]

My ancestors - as you say - almost never called themselves "Persians" (until recently) as far as I know. Only during Achaemenid period in cuneiform do we see self-descriptions as Persian (and Aryan - both are mentioned together). During Sasanids there is the concept of Iranshahr / Eranshahr - land of Iran - as well as Iran / Aniran - but I have not seen any reference to Persian-ness. I believe that even areas as far as Tajikistan were part of Iranshahr during the Sassanid period. During Qajar period when Turks ruled Iran they called "Mamaleke Mahrousseye Iran" (outside Iran it was called Persia but that is not a self designation). During Avestan period, when Gathas of Zartosht were composed, there is reference to the land of Aryans, not of Tajiks or Persians.

Afrasiab, you sound like an Uzbek or Pashtun or other foreign agent who is trying to create divisions among Persian speaking people.
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#30 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:25 AM

Persian and Tajik are both foreign, Our true Identity has always been "Ariayi" and "Erani".
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#31 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:25 AM

But today, we are known as Tajiks or Central Asian Persians.
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#32 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:26 PM

I am always against Tajik. I only use it sometimes to distance myself from Aughans. I think Taj Mahal has right on some point. Unfortunately today we have a state called Tajikistan so we are automatically Tajiks from ''tht country who migrated to Afganistan''. I am for Khurassani. When we have at least our own state we can or Tajkistan can join us! We are one and we will be always one!
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#33 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 08:01 PM

Khorasani isnt an ethnic identity, its a regional Identity while Tajik,Persian,Ariayi are ethnic identities.
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#34 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 08:38 PM

[quote=Parsistani;3487]I am always against Tajik. I only use it sometimes to distance myself from Aughans. I think Taj Mahal has right on some point. Unfortunately today we have a state called Tajikistan so we are automatically Tajiks from ''tht country who migrated to Afganistan''. I am for Khurassani. When we have at least our own state we can or Tajkistan can join us! We are one and we will be always one![/quote]

Well...the most important is that we distance us from Awghans! The rest comes later!
Khurasani and Tajik are both oke and better then saying you are Afghan or from Afghanistan.
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#35 User is offline   raheel Icon

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 09:51 PM

Dears,

This is the first time i take part in this interesting discussion. For the moment I think it is better to work towards a tajik culural revival. We need to unite all tajiks of the region and united them trough cultural and then political networks. We have Tajiks in all parts of Afghanistan. We have tajiks in Laghaman, Nangarhar, Logar, Paktia, Paktika, Kandahar Ghazni, Helmand Nimrooz and Farah. Just like there are Pashtoons all over the Northern Parts of Afghanistan. Because of existance of only one Pashtoon in a province, Pashtoons are claiming that province a Pashtun province. How should we forget our those Tajik brothers living in southern and eastern provinces of Afghanistan. In fact those areas were originally Tajik areas.
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#36 User is offline   raheel Icon

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 10:19 PM

I think it is better to keep our beloved name "Tajik" but ignore this nonsence that
Tajiks are living only in badakhshn ad herat. As it is said by Tajmahal, our people are living all over the contry of Afghanistan and even in Gilgit region of Pakistan. Khorasaani is not an ethnicity but a geographical association.

One thing more: Please be cautious addressing each other. It is better to say our reasons and arguments on the subject. We have no right to command someone to "do something or don't do something else". All we need is to express our opinion and show how much we are taking our nation to its goal.

Our goal is union of all Tajkis and taking them to live prestegious, prosperous and with dignity. I think it is better to keep in mind not to cross the borders of Nationalism and reach to fascism. We should struggle for our rights but not on the expense of others' right.

We need to unite our people by making cultural founditions. giving them more and more information about their past and about their future.

Let's Unite all Tajiks of Afghanistan first. We should establish hot lines of communication with our Laghmani, Ningarhari, Paktiaee, Paktikaee, Ghaznavid, Logari, Kandahari, Helmandi, Nimroozi and Farahi Tajik brothers. this site and this forum should get more and more popularity.

We need to support all Tajik organiations and create more and more such institutions. At the mean time we need to support all cultural organization of the region working towards revival of the regions's original culture nad identity. Uzbiks, Hazaras, Turkmans are our best friends. Pashtoons are also could be freinds but they need to leave hostility wiht us. We are a strong, big, culturally mature nation. We can accept other to live with us. this civilized habit of us, has turned to be our week point by which our enemiies have ruined us. lets think about habits again.
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#37 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 01:56 AM

Raheel Jaan welcome on the forum! nice to have you here!
You can introduce yourself in the introduce topic if you want!
I hope you will continue participating in the forum...and help this Tajik Forum become more famous and get more members!

Talk to you later,
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#38 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 03:38 AM

[QUOTE=raheel;3509]Dears,

This is the first time i take part in this interesting discussion. For the moment I think it is better to work towards a tajik culural revival. We need to unite all tajiks of the region and united them trough cultural and then political networks. We have Tajiks in all parts of Afghanistan. We have tajiks in Laghaman, Nangarhar, Logar, Paktia, Paktika, Kandahar Ghazni, Helmand Nimrooz and Farah. Just like there are Pashtoons all over the Northern Parts of Afghanistan. Because of existance of only one Pashtoon in a province, Pashtoons are claiming that province a Pashtun province. How should we forget our those Tajik brothers living in southern and eastern provinces of Afghanistan. In fact those areas were originally Tajik areas.[/QUOTE]

I am sure there are Tajiks - not "non-tajik" Dari/Persian speakers (Hazaras, Chahar Aimaq, Persianized Pashtuns, many Uzbeks - all over Afghanistan, but where do they form a majority ? It seems to me only in 5 provinces (or so) based on what I found on the internet. Around Herat and north of Kabul in a few provinces, right or wrong ? Please no wishful thinking, insults, or opinions. Back up your claims with statistics. Also, define clearly what you mean by Tajik. Here is something I found on the internet from Dari speaking Afghans' website: "The Tajiks are mostly Sunni Muslims and speak Persian. They live predominantly in the north-east and in the west."
http://www.afghan-ne...ups/tajiks.html
I am not saying I am right - I am just looking for facts, so please prove me wrong with facts and real statistics. I wish all of Afghanistan was "Tajik", but a wish does not equal a fact.
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#39 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 05:25 AM

[QUOTE=doodooli;3513]I am sure there are Tajiks - not "non-tajik" Dari/Persian speakers (Hazaras, Chahar Aimaq, Persianized Pashtuns, many Uzbeks - all over Afghanistan, but where do they form a majority ? It seems to me only in 5 provinces (or so) based on what I found on the internet. Around Herat and north of Kabul in a few provinces, right or wrong ? Please no wishful thinking, insults, or opinions. Back up your claims with statistics. Also, define clearly what you mean by Tajik. Here is something I found on the internet from Dari speaking Afghans' website: "The Tajiks are mostly Sunni Muslims and speak Persian. They live predominantly in the north-east and in the west."
http://www.afghan-ne...ups/tajiks.html
I am not saying I am right - I am just looking for facts, so please prove me wrong with facts and real statistics. I wish all of Afghanistan was "Tajik", but a wish does not equal a fact.[/QUOTE]

Badakhshan
Baghlan
Panjshir
Kapisa
Parwan
Samangan
Balkh
Takhar
Ghor
Herat
Kabul
Ghazni City
Farah
Badghis
Sar Pul
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#40 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 07:52 AM

[QUOTE=raheel;3510]I think it is better to keep our beloved name "Tajik" but ignore this nonsence that
Tajiks are living only in badakhshn ad herat. As it is said by Tajmahal, our people are living all over the contry of Afghanistan and even in Gilgit region of Pakistan. Khorasaani is not an ethnicity but a geographical association.

One thing more: Please be cautious addressing each other. It is better to say our reasons and arguments on the subject. We have no right to command someone to "do something or don't do something else". All we need is to express our opinion and show how much we are taking our nation to its goal.

Our goal is union of all Tajkis and taking them to live prestegious, prosperous and with dignity. I think it is better to keep in mind not to cross the borders of Nationalism and reach to fascism. We should struggle for our rights but not on the expense of others' right.

We need to unite our people by making cultural founditions. giving them more and more information about their past and about their future.

Let's Unite all Tajiks of Afghanistan first. We should establish hot lines of communication with our Laghmani, Ningarhari, Paktiaee, Paktikaee, Ghaznavid, Logari, Kandahari, Helmandi, Nimroozi and Farahi Tajik brothers. this site and this forum should get more and more popularity.

We need to support all Tajik organiations and create more and more such institutions. At the mean time we need to support all cultural organization of the region working towards revival of the regions's original culture nad identity. Uzbiks, Hazaras, Turkmans are our best friends. Pashtoons are also could be freinds but they need to leave hostility wiht us. We are a strong, big, culturally mature nation. We can accept other to live with us. this civilized habit of us, has turned to be our week point by which our enemiies have ruined us. lets think about habits again.[/QUOTE]

raheel jan,
wellcome to the forum. i agree upon all the above except that tajiks are living in the above mentioned provinces. first of all some ppl dont want to have anything with non tajik persian speakers(i should make an exception for persian speaking pushtoons, because they are loyal to the cause of pushtoo) and they only want to have things with pure tajik blood. what you mentioned about the provinces above, is only non tajik persian speakers majority and a minority of tajiks.

you also mentioned the 2 very important points: unity with other ethnic groups especially the hazaras and dont cross the line and become fascist.

Rika Khana
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