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Dravidian influences in Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 05:40 PM

A somewhat neglected area of study, or at least unknown to most, are the possible influences/migrations of Dravidians on the Iranic populations in the ancient past. Dravidian genes are most prevalent in south India, but also quite significant in Pakistan, and possibly in parts of Afghanistan. It is possible that southern parts of Iran also have significant Dravidian influence. The Brahui in Baluchistan are the only contemporary surviving Dravidian people in Iran. Some have suggested the Elamite language is related to Dravidian (but this is disputed by others). I saw a genetic study showing 11% Dravidian DNA in Tajikistan, versus 4% average for Iran. Interestingly, the Kalash in Pakistan have 23% Dravidian DNA versus 13% for average Pakistanis. See below:
http://www.genebase....tem.php?tuId=13

Personally, I don't give much credence to these genetic studies in terms of accuracy, the results vary enormously over successive trials (see above) but still one can distinguish some general trends.

Here is one video that claims the Indus Valley civilization is Dravidian (and included most of Afghanistan and much of southern Iran):


And another one that claims they originate from the Maa civilization in Africa and that Iran was a central part of their spread into other areas (very speculative... but interesting) :

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#2 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 06:01 PM

The whole notion of a genetic basis for ethnicity is anti-intellectual

Ethnicity and Genetics are only weak correlated
There is no ethnicity on earth that is composed of individuals who carry identical mtDNA and Y-chromosome markers

population genetics varies by location and it varies in gradients
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#3 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 06:20 PM

Link to a published paper on African origins:
http://www.krepublis...Winder-C-Tt.pdf

Researchers have long speculated on the
possibility of Dravidian speakers migrating
through Iran to India. This view is supported by
the presence of Indian haplogroups in Iran
(Gonzalez et al. 2007), and the close relationship
between the Dravidian and Elamite languages
(McAlpin 1974, 1981).
Eleven of Iran’s M haplogroups are found in
India. In Iran hg M is found predominately in
the Sussa region. Around 5% of Iranians carry
the M haplogroup. The most frequent Indian
haplogoup in Iran is M3 (Metspula et al. 2004).
Even though most molecular anthropologists
believe the Dravidians originated in situ in India.
The spread of common archaeological assemblages
associated with the C-Group, genetically
related languages and genes from Africa across
Arabia and Iran into India support a recent expansion
of Dravidian speaking people from Africa
to India.
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#4 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 06:38 PM

Dear Lor-Pars,

You are right, but in my opinion genetic data - together with other evidence - can be used for archeological and historical-geographical purposes, to trace migrations, origins, or hereditary associations in helping to uncover the truth. When using language one has to use a word a label, and Dravidian may be imprecise, but it is the only term I can think of. As for correlation with DNA, the correlation may not be very strong, but it is strong enough to become a subject of scientific study, so it cannot be entirely dismissed. Again it depends how you define ethnicity, but old definitions were not based on genetics alone, and obviously the two are not identical.

View PostLor-Pars, on 14 November 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

The whole notion of a genetic basis for ethnicity is anti-intellectual

Ethnicity and Genetics are only weak correlated
There is no ethnicity on earth that is composed of individuals who carry identical mtDNA and Y-chromosome markers

population genetics varies by location and it varies in gradients

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#5 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:25 PM

Interesting genetic map 'Haplogroup L' - a center in the Indus Valley and near Kerala. But the interesting part is that it is correlated with Iranic regions, though in low percentages. A large peak around Tajikistan and among Pashtun areas of south-eastern Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia....group_L_(Y-DNA)
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#6 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 05:13 PM

Dear Nader Shah,
this is not a correct and real statement. Please provide us what you have ''seen'' (saw) so we can be sure you say the truth. While it is true that 5% of Tajiks in Dushanbe have a non-Indoeuropean ancestory we can say that at least 14% of western Iranians have a non-Indoeuropean ancestory. For the Elamites, we can say that ancient Iranians and this dravidan? civilization merged into eachother which gave birth to the Persian Empire and Iranian culture. Please, do not start with ''saw'' or ''if'' and ''remember''. Talk real! One point. Please make a difference between the origine of individuals whos ancestors came for 30 000 years from China and settled in Syria and became ancestors of some Syrians and those who exists as nation for lesser than 3000 years but became absorbed by other nations, i.e. Indoeuropeans from Central Asia. If you go like the first example...we can cut every genetical study and say in general we are all from Africa. That is maybe correct but not make sense and is not important
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