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The Tajik Tragedy Rate Topic: -----

#101 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 01:03 PM

Uzbekistan is dying out. Karimov won´t live forever. Their entire country depends on the water sources that is going to dry. On the other hand, Tajikistan and Afghanistan have many sources. Tajikistan hosts 1/25 of the drink-water reserves of the world. Uzbekistan´s support by Russia is limited and both country are allied with Russia. Russia knows well oppressing one side could be a hit in his own face. Tajiks and many other Muslims will turn against it, close it´s relations and Islamists will support other former Soviet states against them. In addition, Tajikistan became in the last 4years a very close ally of China and Europe. In the case of an occupation of Tajik lands in Uzbekistan, Uz army will not be able to do anything. Their numbers are small, Tajiks in Afghanistan are well aware about their brethren there and Tajikistan and Afghanistan will beat the shit out of these Mongol immigrants. Iran´s role in that is going through financing and training and even if they take active actions against Uzbekistan, neither US, nor Europe or Israel will do anything. Uzbekistan and Russia are as anti-Israel as Taliban are. Fight an enemy of Israel and you are her friend. The Tajiks are not only concentrated in Samarqand and Bukhara, but also dominate Sukhandarya, Tashkent to a certain degree, Namangan, Andijan and Farghana. Why should Bannu Ghazanfar and Muhammad Yunus Nawandish be Uzbeks? Karimov is of to islam converted jewish descant and noone want him. They are not Mongolian-looking people, they have nothing to do with the clan of Shaibani. In Afghanistan, the so-called ''Uzbeks'' are not fully Uzbeks. At least 60% are indigene Tajiks who adoptet the language of the savage migrants who oppressed them. That´s why most of these ''Uzbeks'' are Caucasian looking. Once they are educated and can differenciate a Turko-Mongolian Uzbek from a Caucasian looking ''Uzbek'' and Tajik the Uzbeks will fall faster they they are running toward their end today. The time, sources and Islamis are on our side. Russia want to build economical ties for it´s own interests, than it need first to erase it´s dirty political mistakes of the past.
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#102 User is offline   Avqust23 Icon

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 01:10 PM

View PostParsistani, on 01 September 2011 - 01:03 PM, said:

Uzbekistan is dying out. Karimov won´t live forever. Their entire country depends on the water sources that is going to dry. On the other hand, Tajikistan and Afghanistan have many sources. Tajikistan hosts 1/25 of the drink-water reserves of the world. Uzbekistan´s support by Russia is limited and both country are allied with Russia. Russia knows well oppressing one side could be a hit in his own face. Tajiks and many other Muslims will turn against it, close it´s relations and Islamists will support other former Soviet states against them. In addition, Tajikistan became in the last 4years a very close ally of China and Europe. In the case of an occupation of Tajik lands in Uzbekistan, Uz army will not be able to do anything. Their numbers are small, Tajiks in Afghanistan are well aware about their brethren there and Tajikistan and Afghanistan will beat the shit out of these Mongol immigrants. Iran´s role in that is going through financing and training and even if they take active actions against Uzbekistan, neither US, nor Europe or Israel will do anything. Uzbekistan and Russia are as anti-Israel as Taliban are. Fight an enemy of Israel and you are her friend. The Tajiks are not only concentrated in Samarqand and Bukhara, but also dominate Sukhandarya, Tashkent to a certain degree, Namangan, Andijan and Farghana. Why should Bannu Ghazanfar and Muhammad Yunus Nawandish be Uzbeks? Karimov is of to islam converted jewish descant and noone want him. They are not Mongolian-looking people, they have nothing to do with the clan of Shaibani. In Afghanistan, the so-called ''Uzbeks'' are not fully Uzbeks. At least 60% are indigene Tajiks who adoptet the language of the savage migrants who oppressed them. That´s why most of these ''Uzbeks'' are Caucasian looking. Once they are educated and can differenciate a Turko-Mongolian Uzbek from a Caucasian looking ''Uzbek'' and Tajik the Uzbeks will fall faster they they are running toward their end today. The time, sources and Islamis are on our side. Russia want to build economical ties for it´s own interests, than it need first to erase it´s dirty political mistakes of the past.

You for one should hope Uzbekistan doesn't die out. Because if it did, Uzbeks will migrate in masses to Tajikistan and Afghanistan.
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#103 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:19 PM

chizi bish baraye goftan nist :)



Lines on the map cannot seperate thousands of years of shared history.
Its funny; Mir Ali Hamadani is buried in Khorasan, Ibn Sina Khorasani is buried in Hamadan.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#104 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 12:32 PM

View PostAvqust23, on 05 September 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

You for one should hope Uzbekistan doesn't die out. Because if it did, Uzbeks will migrate in masses to Tajikistan and Afghanistan.


When Uzbekistan dies out, Tajiks of Afghanistan will take revange and impose themself over their ancestral country, Samarqand, Bukhara, Sukhandaryo... up to Khiva. Uzbeks (ethnic Uzbeks and Turks) will seek for a better life and better future in Russia. Tajikistan will not let them to enter through it´s border and Afghanistan will do the same. Uzbekization will smashed down. This century is the era of Aryanization of Turks. The harsher and war-like Tajiks (mostly from Afghanistan) will deal with Uzbeks. You have forgotten what Kyrgyz did to ethnic Uzbeks. They had no problems with resistence or fighting with Uzbeks. Uzbeks are weak and without Russia they are nothing. Without the life of their country, all the rivers they will die out and mass migration will inshallah take place. It´s better for them to become back to Nomads. Since 35% of Uzbekistan are ethnic Tajiks there will be not much problems to unite Tajik countries and create back a Greater Tajikistan, nearly with the same borders of the 10th century. Uzbeks need to learn from their Turkic neighbours who are by far more educated and socially advanced than them.
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#105 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:07 AM

Russia do the first steps against Uzbekistan

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/64137
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#106 User is offline   Avqust23 Icon

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:34 PM

View PostParsistani, on 11 September 2011 - 12:32 PM, said:

When Uzbekistan dies out, Tajiks of Afghanistan will take revange and impose themself over their ancestral country, Samarqand, Bukhara, Sukhandaryo... up to Khiva. Uzbeks (ethnic Uzbeks and Turks) will seek for a better life and better future in Russia. Tajikistan will not let them to enter through it´s border and Afghanistan will do the same. Uzbekization will smashed down. This century is the era of Aryanization of Turks. The harsher and war-like Tajiks (mostly from Afghanistan) will deal with Uzbeks. You have forgotten what Kyrgyz did to ethnic Uzbeks. They had no problems with resistence or fighting with Uzbeks. Uzbeks are weak and without Russia they are nothing. Without the life of their country, all the rivers they will die out and mass migration will inshallah take place. It´s better for them to become back to Nomads. Since 35% of Uzbekistan are ethnic Tajiks there will be not much problems to unite Tajik countries and create back a Greater Tajikistan, nearly with the same borders of the 10th century. Uzbeks need to learn from their Turkic neighbours who are by far more educated and socially advanced than them.

I see you're still missing the point. If Uzbekistan dies out, you will be fooling yourself if you believe they will suddenly turn nomadic and migrate in mass to Russia. Russia wouldn't allow that to happen. Even Russian satellite states such as Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan aren't going to allow mass migration into their countries either. So who's that going to leave Uzbeks migrating to? Oh yeah, Afghanistan and Tajikistan.

Firstly, I should say I do not believe Uzbekistan will ever die out. It's too big to die out. Second, even if it did, Uzbeks will find it easier migrating to the Iranic countries than they will to their own Turkic neighbors up north. And going to Russia is out of question.

Turkmenistan will never accept them because the Turkmens hate the Uzbeks. Azeris will never accept Uzbeks because, despite all the Turkic unity shenanigan, the Azeris know deep down inside they're Iranians. The Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are proxy Russian states, serving Russian interests, so they'll also not accept Uzbek migrants. So who will Uzbeks go to? Easiest choice: Afghanistan and Tajikistan.

We 're already seeing some Uzbek migration to Tajikistan lately, it seems like the Uzbeks who used to live in Tajikistani lands are deciding to head back there. Uzbeks are 20 million. Tajikistanis are only 4.5, 52% are Tajiks, 20% Pamir and 48% others (of these 35% Uzbeks). Any sudden collapse in Uzbek statehood would see huge dilution of Tajiks among Uzbeks in their own backyard. You will be outnumbered. If that happens, Uzbekification will crush Aryanization. Let's be realistic. While Aryanization has won grounds in some parts of earth, it lost many grounds in central asia, especially to Turkic people. This isn't the first time and Turks have become awfully good at Turkicizing lands.

So you better be careful what you wish for.
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#107 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:36 PM

View PostParsistani, on 11 September 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

When Uzbekistan dies out, Tajiks of Afghanistan will take revange and impose themself over their ancestral country, Samarqand, Bukhara, Sukhandaryo... up to Khiva. Uzbeks (ethnic Uzbeks and Turks) will seek for a better life and better future in Russia. Tajikistan will not let them to enter through it´s border and Afghanistan will do the same. Uzbekization will smashed down. This century is the era of Aryanization of Turks. The harsher and war-like Tajiks (mostly from Afghanistan) will deal with Uzbeks. You have forgotten what Kyrgyz did to ethnic Uzbeks. They had no problems with resistence or fighting with Uzbeks. Uzbeks are weak and without Russia they are nothing. Without the life of their country, all the rivers they will die out and mass migration will inshallah take place. It´s better for them to become back to Nomads. Since 35% of Uzbekistan are ethnic Tajiks there will be not much problems to unite Tajik countries and create back a Greater Tajikistan, nearly with the same borders of the 10th century. Uzbeks need to learn from their Turkic neighbours who are by far more educated and socially advanced than them.


EDIT: Nevermind, I said some stupid racist crap.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#108 User is offline   Avqust23 Icon

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:43 PM

View Postقزلباش, on 14 September 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

This despicable word "Aryan".
The first thing that it brings to my mind is an image of an emaciated Hindu in briefs.
There is only Persian and Non-Persian.
If you do some introspection you will realize that everything you love about "Aryan" culture is actually Persian.
Hence, the term "Aryan" is superfluous and perhaps even misleading.

I would much rather associate with Uzbeks that with "Aryans" (The vast majority of whom are Indian Hindus).

The only despicable thing about the term is it was used badly by Germans. Aryan is another term for Indo-European languages, which Persian belongs to.
Turanian is a term for Altaic languages, which Turkic (e.g. Uzbek) belongs to.
Regardless of darker skin color in India and different religions, my advice to you is you associate yourself to your linguistic and cultural relatives than with those (Uzbeks) who loathe you and your existence. And when I say this, I mean it in all respect, as I know how my people think and I know the vast majority of them will brush you aside.
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#109 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:38 AM

View PostAvqust23, on 14 September 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

The only despicable thing about the term is it was used badly by Germans. Aryan is another term for Indo-European languages, which Persian belongs to.
Turanian is a term for Altaic languages, which Turkic (e.g. Uzbek) belongs to.
Regardless of darker skin color in India and different religions, my advice to you is you associate yourself to your linguistic and cultural relatives than with those (Uzbeks) who loathe you and your existence. And when I say this, I mean it in all respect, as I know how my people think and I know the vast majority of them will brush you aside.


I would rather not even get into that discussion.
The 70 million Persians around the world are quite enough company for me.

The ethnic groups that I genuinely care for are Persians(Qizilbash, Tajik), Azerbaijanis and Gilaks.
Iranians of other ethnic groups to a smaller extent.
Everyone else is just a fellow human being in my eyes.

I know we loathe one another but in that loathing there is also admiration.
I grew up hearing stories about Qizilbash vs. Uzbek wars in Khorasan.
You are the only people who (unlike the Ottomans) fought us in the melee fashion.
It might have been that we were more often victorious against Uzbeks than we were against the Ottomans but i never detected the hatred imbued in the stories about the Ottomans within the stories about Uzbeks.

By the way, I have a question for you; What do people in Uzbekistan remember about Qizilbash? About Shah Ismail?
Most of my father's tribe (Shamlu) was based around Herat until Shah Abbas took our lands and moved us back to Iran. We were almost constantly at war with Uzbeks.

The warrior who killed Mohammad Shaybani (or as other claim, recovered his head) was also from my tribe, a fellow named Allahyar Shamlu.
There was only peace in the winter and once the snow melted there would be more fighting.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#110 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 03:42 PM

Quote

I see you're still missing the point. If Uzbekistan dies out, you will be fooling yourself if you believe they will suddenly turn nomadic and migrate in mass to Russia. Russia wouldn't allow that to happen. Even Russian satellite states such as Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan aren't going to allow mass migration into their countries either. So who's that going to leave Uzbeks migrating to? Oh yeah, Afghanistan and Tajikistan.


Two point. We damaged and destroyed Mongol Uzbeks in Afghanistan when they cooperated with Russians, Arabs, Al-Qaida and Taliban Pashtuns against Tajiks and we will do the same with their daddies in Greater Russia and ride their mamas. From left to right. Expanse to the corner of Khiva and role Uzbek heads back where they came from - Altay region! Afghanistan, specially the Pashtun savages, will not allow you to enter only one step. We have already a Tajik-Uzbek and Uzbek-Pashtun rivarely and thus I want to see how Uzbeks will step into our countries. That clash will be better than any Hollywood movie of fucking wodka drinking donkey-fucking Mongols (sorry for my words but I do not chose another language after knowing what Uzbeks are kind of savages and creatures and what they do against my nation in their own countries). If that is the case you tell us (Uzbek regions in Afghanistan do not differ from what will happen in Uzbekistan in the near future) than why do you already migrate to Russia, China, US, Germani, Slovakia.... ? If Uzbekistan die or not has nothing to do with it´s ''beeing big''. Uzbekistan´s death will be caused by the nature and global warming. Your water get turned to dry ground, your economy will fall down, your people will fight eachother for a piece of country, your leaders will run like cowards to save their monies to Russia and USA, a civil war will be the Cream de la Cream for Uzbekistan. Neither Iranian people nor Turks want Uzbeks. Neither Iran, Afghanistan (where Uzbeks are known as the dumbest people, ironically Pashtuns spread that image which actually could be their own image) and Tajikistan. Tajiks hate Uzbeks and Uzbekistan for that what they are doing with Tajiks and what they had already done (i.e. creating a civil war in Tajikistan; you remember?) That´s the case. Tajiks from Afghanistan will supoport Tajkistan to protect the borders. If there will be any ''Uzbek'' migration toward Afghanistan and Tajikistan than the gates will be open for Caucasian and Persianspeaking ''Uzbeks'' (Tajiks). Where do they want to migrate and become slaves and low class citizens? To Afghanistan where they can replace Pashtuns of today and live in dirty refugee camps and populate deserts, or to Iran where they can replace Hazaras or to Pakistan or India? Maybe India and Pakistan will allow a certain amount of you, but not all. Why are you speculating. I´ve promoted in geo-political science and militarism. You want to make jokes with me? Do you actually know that your beloved Uzbekistan will face it´s death with the time if Russians aren´t there for them? Or that it will face directly death when it´s rivers move eastward and westward or even get dry? The Aral Sea is your life, but the question is how long can it keep Uzbekistan alive with it´s mainly wool factory and gold teeths. Let´s be serious. The first and last who will run away and leave Uzbekistan will be mainly Uzbeks, Russians, Kyrgyz and German remnants. The only regions that will be populated by Uzbeks will be possibly the entire northern and
north-western belt.

Quote

We 're already seeing some Uzbek migration to Tajikistan lately, it seems like the Uzbeks who used to live in Tajikistani lands are deciding to head back there. Uzbeks are 20 million. Tajikistanis are only 4.5, 52% are Tajiks, 20% Pamir and 48% others (of these 35% Uzbeks). Any sudden collapse in Uzbek statehood would see huge dilution of Tajiks among Uzbeks in their own backyard. You will be outnumbered. If that happens, Uzbekification will crush Aryanization. Let's be realistic. While Aryanization has won grounds in some parts of earth, it lost many grounds in central asia, especially to Turkic people. This isn't the first time and Turks have become awfully good at Turkicizing lands.


If you speak about flat-head and Mongol looking Turks of Altay and homosexual descandants of Uzbak Khan than you are wrong. Those ''Uzbeks'' are not Uzbeks. Tajikistan´s Tajik population (Pamiris are Tajiks as well since both terminologies share the same eastern-Iranian ancestors from the same regions) make ca. 82% to 85%. The remaining are Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, Russians and descendants of deported German families from Silesia, Prussia and Pomerania. Aryanization began on Turks 1000years ago when they served Iranian people as sex-slaves on bazars and it still run through Turkic nations. Let´s call it ''Turko-Persian'' civilisation. Turkic, mostly by ethnicity, culturally Aryan. Your Islam Karimov is secretly promoting Zoroastrianism in southern Uzbekistan and in northern Uzbekistan he play the same game just with Russification. Your Kasakh and Kyrgyz brothers became already ''Russians'' and you are not far away from them. Turks had never anything to compare it with Iranian people. That´s why they adoptet Aryan culture, identity, heroes, history, belief and even language. They even call their children after Iranian heroes. So why you want to debate with me on a thing that is clear? Tajiks are well aware of the Uzbek thread and can deal with you. We did it in Afghanistan, in Tajikistan, in Iran and Kyrgyz and Kasakhs do it in their countries with Uzbeks. So what is ''Uzbekization'', can you please explain it to me? Even their language is influenced to 60% taken from Persian and eastern-Iranian languages.

Quote

So you better be careful what you wish for.


Noone wish here anything. We are talking here about reality and the future of Uzbekistan. Russians hate you, but they need you as a border between themself and islamists. You are just a ''farmer'' in their games. In fact, it is YOU who have a wish but you fail to see behind the mountain´s peak. The days of Turkic migration within CA is over. It is over. Your neighbours do not want you, Russia is using you, your northern neighbours will nothing else than finishing Uzbekistan, Tajiks claim on large parts (rightfully!) on Tajik lands and cities, southern Afghanistan thread your home, IMU which consists mostly of Tajik radicals threat your country. So what the hell do you want? If you believe your situation would be better just to jump from your dry shit to one of anothers than your logic is to short. Tajikistan will not be your future, since the country self is poor and can not host and feed more than 11 million people. Afghanistan will not be your future, since it is in war and can not feed and host you, Iran is not your future since they do not see any real profite from you and nor would they want any Uzbakization in their own country. Come on, Iran is not Greater Jerusalem that Jews can come and settle there and within months the numbers of 90% Muslims and 10% Jews can get exchanged. That´s it.

Quote

Turanian is a term for Altaic languages, which Turkic (e.g. Uzbek) belongs to.


Turanian drives from ''Tus'', a city of Nishapur and did not mean ''Turks''. The word was developed further to ''Dark'' They were just enemies of ''Iranians'' (settled and cultivated people). Turanians was a name for a group of nomadic people, mostly related to Scythians and Sacaes, both groups of Iranian origin. The word has Iranic/Persian origin. Turkic maniacs used that word for their own fake ancestors´ hero ''Afrasiab'', whom they claimed as ''Turk''. Mahmud al-Khashgari, the first freaking Turkic maniac, promoted it as such. Jealous that Turks have nothing compared to the Iranians, he created this myth of a ''Great Khan''. Unlike ''Turan'' (''Land of Darkness''), the term ''Arya'' or ''Arii'' was used 3000 B.C. to designate nomadic people with new war technics riding on horses and war waggons. These people used that word for themself. It has Indo-germanic origin and means ''noble'', ''guast''. The people who were conquered by them used the word for ''enemy'' and ''foreigner''.
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Posted 16 September 2011 - 04:22 PM

You make Uzbeks looking like gypsies. Are you aware about it?
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Posted 17 September 2011 - 03:20 PM

Frankly I dont care if I make them look like gypsies. Im not fond of my people's history. Id rather Central Asia was predominantly "Farsiwan" but the truth of the matter is you are wrong about Aryanization.

The era of Aryanization is actually over. Turkicization has only just begun, and it will grow stronger in the centuries to come.

Face it... Indo-European languages have lost grounds in almost every place they had to fight Turkicization/Turkification.

In Anatolia, they lost. In Azerbaijan, they lost. In Central Asia, they lost. And sooner or later it will spread into Europe. It is the destiny of the Turkophone world.

Look at the Iranophone world. A good chunk of Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan are Turkic. A very good chunk. Add to it the fact you're surrounded by Turkic countries, with populations that are growing at a vast rate.

Geographically, Turkic peoples have pushed Iranic peoples further into the edge of the south-western plateaus. And this push will not cease to exist. It will continue as more and more Turkic tribes flood safely into the Iranic countries.

So for you to say this era is the era of Aryanization is wrong. Are you in some state of denial?

You're also dreaming about Uzbekistan dying out. Uzbekistan isn't dying out. Uzbekistan has enough will and support to go on for another 200-300 years if it wanted to. And should it die out, your earlier assumptions of migration to Russia is laughable. If any migration was to occur, it would be to the nearest countries, where Uzbeks can find relatives of their own. And that means Afghanistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan.

Your figures of Tajikistan's population is also wrong. A neutral survey was conducted by westerners in CA nations a few years ago. They found out that Uzbekistan and Tajikistan were both lying about their demography.

Uzbeks put Tajiks in their country as 5%, but in reality they're 30%.

But the most striking government lie came from the Tajik government. Tajiks put Uzbeks in their country as a small minority, less than 10%. In reality, they are around 35%. Tajiks are barely over 50% of the population. Migration in recent years caused this. I have relatives in Tajikistan, who are ethnic Tajiks, and they tell me official govt stats are all false. Govt stats lie about everything, including standard of living, literacy, etc. Many Tajiks are complaining about the level of deception in their govt. You know Tajikistan gave up some of its land for China? Do you know it has allowed thousands of Chinese from East Turkestan to work as farmers in Tajikistan? Do you know how many angry Tajiks in Tajikistan are, because they are angry and dissatisfied with the actions of their govt? While Tajikistan is signing contracts with Chinese and allowing Chinks to work there, Tajiks have no jobs and no lands.

My relatives in Tajikistan tell me about all the issues. And they never lie to me. They also tell me about how many Uzbek "Mongoloids" are living there today. Many Uzbeks there marry Tajik women. In fact my brother is married to a Tajik woman. My Tajik relatives are basically my brother's in-laws. My Uzbek family are open about interethnic marriages but our distant relatives are sick to their stomach. Theyre too anti-Tajik and they resemble the Uzbek stereotype of hating anything that is Aryan. I have no respect for them ofcourse.

Uzbekification has successfully taken place in parts of Uzbekistan. Do you know people in the 60s and 70s were discussing that Tajik language was beginning to "change" from Indo-European to Turkic? They called the Tajik language, "Turkic in embryo". What stopped complete Uzbekification of Tajiks is the breakup of soviet union and formation of Tajik republic. But while that saved you some years, the sad thing is the Tajik politicians did nothing to make sure they preserve their culture. The people running Tajikistan sold themselves and the fate of their people in Central Asia in exchange for a few Mercedes Benz cars as gifts from Chinese and Uzbek oil contractors.

The syntax of Tajik language in northwestern Tajikistan and eastern Uzbekistan is changing. It is adopting a Turkic syntax form instead of Indo-European. These are the first signs of language shifting from one family group to another. You are slowly becoming what Azari Aryans became a thousand years ago, when they were brutally Turkified until they became Mongoloid Turkic-speaking half breeds making up Azerbaijan today.

I said it. You should hope Uzbekistan never falls. You dont want people migrating south. Turkic people wont migrate north, they migrate south and then west. Central Asia and Anatolia are a base for future Turkification in other parts of the world. If you wish for Uzbekistan to fall, a new wave of Turkic migration will take place. And Turkic people are not easy to assimilate. They assimilate you, instead. And if they dont, they will do something else. If you also wish for them to go back to their nomadic ways, you should also be careful for what you wish for. Most Turkification took place when Turkic people were nomadic. And thats the most brutal time for Iranic people. Turkic raiders were famous for invading Aryan towns, looting things of value, taking women for sex slaves to have babies with, etc.
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#113 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 05:01 PM

Slow down there, boy
Thats some big talk for a patchy-bearded midget with a 5 inch pecker.

I dont recognize your eurocentric terminology and i therefore dont feel the need to respond to your rant. Words like "Iranic", "Turkic" and "Indo-European" were all coined by a bunch of irrelevant 19th century Western Pseduo-intellectuals. I dont recognize them.

What i do recognize is that we have been victorious.
The mongoloid Turkmen and Uzbek minorities in Northeastern Iran are a defeated people. The most well-off among them are the ones who get the chance to work on Qizilbash stud farms in Tehran province and in Western Iran. When I was a kid I had asthma and so i mainly spent my summers on a stud farm we have near Damavand/Mosha in order to escape the air pollution in Tehran. The vast majority of the workers there were Iranian Turkmen because they know a thing or two about horses and because even the most impoverished Qizilbash communities (like the Bakhtiari-Lurs or the Qashqais) could not be convinced to do such lowly work. They themsevles understand that they are a defeated people; they dont dare raise their gaze when Qizilbash women are around and when you speak Azeri with them they respond in Persian. The Caucasoid Turks are your Frankenstein; we learned everything from you and then we did it better. Genetic testing has dispelled all notions of a blood link between us; The Qajars have been shown to be Dagestani J1, the Safavids are J2, the Afshars are R1a1, the Shamlu (including myself) are mainly G. None of these are Turkic markers. Even the Ottoman royal family has been shown to be J2.
Iran is just a microcosm of this phenomena; everywhere the Turkified have usurped the Turks.
The fact of the matter is that were are bigger and fiercer. You are the people of hit and run light cavarly, we are the people of charge and overrun heavy cavarly. You prefer the bow, we prefer the Axe. We are of different temperaments.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#114 User is offline   Avqust23 Icon

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 12:35 AM

Why should I care if you dont recognize the terminologies? My response wasnt to you.

These terminologies are more accurate than the crap you're spouting.

You look at things from the perspective of physical looks. Physical looks mean nothing. The most important thing is language, culture and genetic origins. Linguistically, the Turkic people have defeated the Iranic people countless of times. Uzbeks, Turks, Turkmens, Azeris, all these people are Turkic. That is their grouping. They have always outdone Iranics (Persians, Kurds, etc) in battle.

Genetic testing disspelled links? You hypocrite. Just a while ago you're denying western studies on linguistics and failing to recognize things like "Turkic, Indo-European". Now you want to believe western studies on genetics?

Let me make this easier on you. Next time you go see an Azeri or Turk, look at his eyes. The eyes will tell you the story of his people. He is a Turkic. Mongoloid or Caucasoid it means nothing. In fact those terms Mongoloid and Caucasoid were also eurocentric terminologies you hypocrite.

Fact is, Turks in Central Asia pumped their genes, their language, and culture into the heartland of "Aryan" lands across Iran and Anatolia for thousands of years. They have successfully Turkified a good chunk of it, leaving countries like Iran on its knees. Any further hostility towards Uzbeks or Turkmens will initiate a new wave of Turkification into the stubborn minds of Irano-Afghans.


View Postقزلباش, on 17 September 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

Slow down there, boy
Thats some big talk for a patchy-bearded midget with a 5 inch pecker.

I dont recognize your eurocentric terminology and i therefore dont feel the need to respond to your rant. Words like "Iranic", "Turkic" and "Indo-European" were all coined by a bunch of irrelevant 19th century Western Pseduo-intellectuals. I dont recognize them.

What i do recognize is that we have been victorious.
The mongoloid Turkmen and Uzbek minorities in Northeastern Iran are a defeated people. The most well-off among them are the ones who get the chance to work on Qizilbash stud farms in Tehran province and in Western Iran. When I was a kid I had asthma and so i mainly spent my summers on a stud farm we have near Damavand/Mosha in order to escape the air pollution in Tehran. The vast majority of the workers there were Iranian Turkmen because they know a thing or two about horses and because even the most impoverished Qizilbash communities (like the Bakhtiari-Lurs or the Qashqais) could not be convinced to do such lowly work. They themsevles understand that they are a defeated people; they dont dare raise their gaze when Qizilbash women are around and when you speak Azeri with them they respond in Persian. The Caucasoid Turks are your Frankenstein; we learned everything from you and then we did it better. Genetic testing has dispelled all notions of a blood link between us; The Qajars have been shown to be Dagestani J1, the Safavids are J2, the Afshars are R1a1, the Shamlu (including myself) are mainly G. None of these are Turkic markers. Even the Ottoman royal family has been shown to be J2.
Iran is just a microcosm of this phenomena; everywhere the Turkified have usurped the Turks.
The fact of the matter is that were are bigger and fiercer. You are the people of hit and run light cavarly, we are the people of charge and overrun heavy cavarly. You prefer the bow, we prefer the Axe. We are of different temperaments.

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#115 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:44 PM

The thing is that you Turkic maniacs are the most dumbest people, led by your Anatolian ''heroes'' (A study confirmed the most intelligent people of Europe and Turks were on the last position! http://news.softpedi...s-20341.shtml). You are like cave-monkies, far away of reality, emotional, people without an own identity or history. That´s why you claim on others´ heritages. ''Mohammad was a Turk'', ''The first civilizaton was Turkic'', ''Sumerians were Turks'' ... :rolleyes: Aryanization took 1300years ago place on Turks and later even on Mongols and it still run deep through your vains. You can not stop it because majority of Turks became urbane people, bonded to their greater masters, be it Russia, China or any other world power, adoptet the original culture and heritage of the region they live today. The days of moving from point X to point B is over and the days of sword and mass killing is gone like a dry fart with the wind. Russification was completed in Kasakhstan and Kyrgyztan, it´s just a question of time when they will call themself as Russians. Uzbekistan will follow. We see everyday Uzbekistan´s convertite Islam Karimov how Uzbek he is when he is promoting Aryan heritage as ''Uzbek'' heritage (just to fool the Turkic mass) and Russian influence as Uzbekistan´s obligated foreign policy. Without Russia, Uzbekistan would be alone, only depending on it´s natural ''vain'', Aral Sea and some rivers. The Russian influence just keep your death a bit far from you but it will not stop you from dying. You self damaged your own country and now you have to pay for it. Russia do not like you but they need something from you, that´s why they still have a grip on your name, but whenever they can they will kick Uzbekistan out of the CIS.

Quote

Face it... Indo-European languages have lost grounds in almost every place they had to fight Turkicization/Turkification.


Come and rescue your Uzbek brothers from Persianization/Tajification and Pashtunization in Afghanistan, if you can. :lol: . I ask you what Turkic languages are? Turkic languages self have strong Indo-European ancestory. Words like Khan or Khagan are not Altayic or even Mongolian but of Indo-European origin. Words like Ana and Ata are either developed of ''baby languages'' or in the case of Ata became 'Turkified''. Shall I break your teeths to thousand pieces? If you want I can go on the list. Uzbekistan´s north will not remain ''Turkic'', such as Kasakhstan and Kyrgyztan and many other states. It´s just a question of time. Do not talk emotional and out of your back. Stay real. Pan-Turkism is not even welcomed in Uzbekistan and your leaders do not wish a confederancy led by faschist Anatolian Turkified Greecs, Jews, Albanians, Iranians, Indians, Arabs, Kurds etc. who carry a wrong ID with themself. Soon, Europeans will dominate over your country, Islamists will take over Anatolia, the number of Kurds will increase to a grade that in the next 75years they will make the majority of Turkey and everything that you today can see and listen to will turned to ''Kurdish''. For your Anatolian friends will be only few solutions. Moving out and settling somewhere in Europe or even in the far West (many millions live already in the West), accepting kurdish dominance and their new self-determination, their take over of the turkish Army, government, educational system ...etc. Azerbaidjan and Turkey are just Turkified countries that soon in this century will face a lot of changes, new influence and population diversity. Take Istanbul. Once the capital of Islam in Europe. Today, 90% of it´s population become western oriented and atheists. It starts here and ends on the borders of Iran, Iraq and Georgia. Your dream of a shape to Europe will remain a wet dream. Europeans from all corners do not like Turks. They will never allow Turks to come and threat their culture, identity or system. You wanna know how Turks are living in Europe? Come to Germany, France, Sweden, Greecs, Italia, Denmark, Dutch. Your cave-monkey mentality is a thorn in the eyes of Europeans. I want to you inform yourself with Tilo Sarazzin who wrote a very good lecture, a very provocant book that caused a lot of struggles in Europe and specially in Germany but he had the guts to speak about the reality. People, no matter pro- or con-Sarazzin had to confirm his ''claims'' as true and an undeniable fact. You are no where welcomed. You are part of the global terrorism. Every Terrorist that is caught in Europe has ties to any Turk or Turkey. People just do not talk about it in the public but they know it. Noone want to be insulted as Nazi.

Quote

Look at the Iranophone world. A good chunk of Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan are Turkic. A very good chunk. Add to it the fact you're surrounded by Turkic countries, with populations that are growing at a vast rate.


Yes, that´s true. But soon, some of these countries will go down or part a part of Russia.

Quote

Geographically, Turkic peoples have pushed Iranic peoples further into the edge of the south-western plateaus. And this push will not cease to exist. It will continue as more and more Turkic tribes flood safely into the Iranic countries.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Take a look on your gens and culture, your language and your silly claims :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote

You're also dreaming about Uzbekistan dying out. Uzbekistan isn't dying out. Uzbekistan has enough will and support to go on for another 200-300 years if it wanted to. And should it die out, your earlier assumptions of migration to Russia is laughable. If any migration was to occur, it would be to the nearest countries, where Uzbeks can find relatives of their own. And that means Afghanistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan.


:lol: Let´s wait and see. :lol:

Quote

Your figures of Tajikistan's population is also wrong. A neutral survey was conducted by westerners in CA nations a few years ago. They found out that Uzbekistan and Tajikistan were both lying about their demography.

Uzbeks put Tajiks in their country as 5%, but in reality they're 30%.


So, Tajikification was succesful :lol: :lol: The thing in Uzbekistan is that their ''Uzbification'' is only based on language, not ethnicity :lol: In Tajikistan, it is hardly on process to Tajikize Uzbeks in term of language, identity and ethnicity. Ask a reknowned expert named Dariush Rajabian. He will show you reality and always provoke the government to keep on Tajification. The chinks can either accept Tajikification or go back to Kyrgyztan and Kasakhstan. Very easy. What Uzbekistan can, can Tajikistan and Afghanistan with Uzbeks, too. 1000Years long we were succesfully. ->Seldjukes, Ottomans, Beyliks, Mughals, Timurids, Simjurids, Ghaznavids, Khanate of Bukhara ... Keep dreaming.

Quote

But the most striking government lie came from the Tajik government. Tajiks put Uzbeks in their country as a small minority, less than 10%. In reality, they are around 35%. Tajiks are barely over 50% of the population. Migration in recent years caused this


Prove it. I have ''Uzbek'' relatives in Uzbekistan. They say Uzbeks make 15% of Uzbekistan lol

Quote

Many Tajiks are complaining about the level of deception in their govt. You know Tajikistan gave up some of its land for China? Do you know it has allowed thousands of Chinese from East Turkestan to work as farmers in Tajikistan? Do you know how many angry Tajiks in Tajikistan are, because they are angry and dissatisfied with the actions of their govt? While Tajikistan is signing contracts with Chinese and allowing Chinks to work there, Tajiks have no jobs and no lands.


And what you wanna tell me with that? Showing that Tajikistan, like Uzbekistan, is a weak state? At least, Tajikistan is cultural and historical superiour compared to Turks. You also blend out that Tajikistan and China will be another allies. Go rescue your back from your Russian masters who use you as shields against your own and the ''Afghanisky'' threat. Because once we steped in Bukhara, you chinkeys will run away. And we will. But not as militants, but as Russian, Iranians and Indian allies :lol: The rest of your BS is not worth to answer them. You forget that you served us 650 years as slaves and even your kings were ruled undirectly by their Tajik vezirs. The problem is, you Turks have no roots, no skills, no educated elitists that can deal with the modern world. That´s why you are a backward minded people. Reality. What happened with rich countries like Samarqand, Bukhara, Chiva .... when Turks became selfish? First, Russians came and took their daughters and wifes, than came for them, took their language and forced them to accept Russians as their new masters. And today, they have what they always wanted. Turkic slaves in Central Asia against Islamism. You are again in the position of Mamlukes. Just, ´this time under Russian. You were never independant and will never be independant. You always depended on Tajiks, Iranians, Kurds, Arabs, Greecs, Indians and Afghans. When you did not served our interests, soon you were deplaced and another one came and we could rule him unter the flag of ''Turks''. Very easy. Use the barbarian against itself.

Summerize: Wait and see. Enjoy the show and see how your wet dreams turn to a fart. :)
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#116 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 05:11 PM

View PostAvqust23, on 17 September 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

Why should I care if you dont recognize the terminologies? My response wasnt to you.

These terminologies are more accurate than the crap you're spouting.

You look at things from the perspective of physical looks. Physical looks mean nothing. The most important thing is language, culture and genetic origins. Linguistically, the Turkic people have defeated the Iranic people countless of times. Uzbeks, Turks, Turkmens, Azeris, all these people are Turkic. That is their grouping. They have always outdone Iranics (Persians, Kurds, etc) in battle.

Genetic testing disspelled links? You hypocrite. Just a while ago you're denying western studies on linguistics and failing to recognize things like "Turkic, Indo-European". Now you want to believe western studies on genetics?

Let me make this easier on you. Next time you go see an Azeri or Turk, look at his eyes. The eyes will tell you the story of his people. He is a Turkic. Mongoloid or Caucasoid it means nothing. In fact those terms Mongoloid and Caucasoid were also eurocentric terminologies you hypocrite.

Fact is, Turks in Central Asia pumped their genes, their language, and culture into the heartland of "Aryan" lands across Iran and Anatolia for thousands of years. They have successfully Turkified a good chunk of it, leaving countries like Iran on its knees. Any further hostility towards Uzbeks or Turkmens will initiate a new wave of Turkification into the stubborn minds of Irano-Afghans.


There is a clear categorical difference between the Social sciences (Anthropology, Linguistics etc.) and Hard Sciences (Genetics and Morphology etc.).

I refuse to accept Western theories on the Social sciences but i have no choice but to accept Genetic realities.
Whereas Linguistic classifications are scantly supported by empirical evidence, there is no denying the implication of Y-lineage genetic testing which has shown that the overwhelming majority of Qizilbash and Azeris have no genetic links to the Turkic people of Central Asia. We are a middle-eastern people speaking a Turkic language. We are as Turkic as you are Germanic (in so much as you speak English). The say that blood is thicker than water, but frankly you and I dont even share water.

These linguistic classifications have never carried any real weight in the real world. The Turkic Mohammad Shaybani didnt expect or receive any mercy from the "Turkic" speaking Shamlu who jammed a lance into his trachea and the "Iranic" people of Qandahar didnt expect or receive any mercy from the "Iranic" speaking Bakhtiaris who descended on their city. Get real.

Parsistani and Gul Agha are both from "Indo-European" (Kurdish) derived Qizilbash groups, I am paternally form a Turkic speaking derived Qizilbash group. If you think i would prefer you over them you really need to get your head examined.

I dont know what battlefield record you are boasting of. When Shah Ismail was in Samarqand in 1512 and when Nader Shah Afshar was in Samarqand in 1740 we saw very little boasting. What we did see was alot of the good old "bow until your head hits the floor routine". The fact of the matter is that you have never defeated us in a proper battle. The only pitched battle that you did win was when you defeated Amir Nadjm's army; even that was only because the Afshar and Rumlu factions had rebelled and beheaded Amir Nadjm.

I have no idea what you think you can prove with the whole "look at your eyes" charade. That should be the last thing you should say; if anything, we have abnormally big eyes.
I'll play along.

Contemporary Painting of Nader Shah Afshar (Qizilbash on both sides of his family) and his sons (including Reza Qoli Afshar, the conqueror of the Uzbeks):

Posted Image

Contemporary Painting of Fath Ali Shah (Qizilbash on both sides of his family):

Posted Image

Abbas Mirza Qajar, the bravest of the Qajar:

Posted Image

Contemporary painting of a Qajar prince (Left) and a Qajar warrior:

Posted Image

I was tempted to thrown in a pic of myself for good measure but i think ill pass.

PS. I dont know what your intentions are but i intend to reclaim Samarqand and Bukhara and to help its Persian people gain their right to self-determination. I have a certain affinity for the Turkic cultures of central asia but i wont hesistate to slit you and your kin's throats if you get in the way of my goals. My personal tastes are one thing but business is business and, believe me, my family has been prospering in the throat cutting business since the late 15th century. We played this same game when you were Uzbeks and we walked away with your skulls; It would be terribly unwise if you were to play this same game as Uzbekovs.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#117 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 08:59 PM

Avqust, I like Uzbeks and Uzbek culture. Take my comments personally; not as an attack on the Uzbek ethnicity. Khorasan would be incomplete without Uzbeks. I wish khorasan could be like the old days; Uzbeks on the plains and Persians in the cities; without ethnic chauvinism and with mutual respect.

However, although this is my genuine wish, I have prepared myself for less favorable scenarios.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#118 User is offline   Avqust23 Icon

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 04:54 PM

Qizilbash, are you bipolar or something? You are the weirdest member in this forum. First you make a Tajik-centric topic, then you claim yourself as Turkic. You speak against the interests of Turks and then you say are one.

No you're not. Don't delude yourself, you're no Turk. You're a Tajik rat who's confused about his identity. First you dismiss linguistic facts and then you listen to western genetic theories. Obviously you are deluded.

At least the other guy Parsistani, despite coming off as an idiot with his fake macho comments, admits reality.

Indo-European languages and Altaic languages were never meant to define blood relations, although MOST people in the same 'category' of languages share blood relations. They were always meant to define relationships between ethnolinguistic communities. Persians are ethnolinguistically closer to Indians and Europeans than they are to us Uzbeks. Genetically, Persians might share similarities with some Azeris and some other Turkic people. That's because those people are not real Turks. They are turkicized Turks, originally their ancestors were Indo-European speaking people.

Tajiks in Tajikistan are not real Indo-Europeans "Aryans". Genetically they are Turkic but they were culturally and linguistically Aryanized. They are the opposite of Azeris (who are genetically Indo-European Aryan but culturally and linguistically Turkicized).

Its a complex issue I dont expect everyone to understand it at first. At least Parsistani makes more sense than you.

If you really are paternally Turkic, the only reason you deny western anthropology is because you're too ashamed to admit you're a Turkicized Aryan. Im not surprised youre sympathetic with Kurds or Persians more than Uzbeks. Thats because your ancestors, before getting Turkicized, were relatives to Kurds and Persians.

Now regarding Samarqand and Bukhara. Youll never get it. Its gone, its over, game over. If I was in Tajiks position, Ill build the 3 Iranic countries, flourish them, and then worry about getting Samarqand and Bukhara.
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Posted 19 September 2011 - 05:16 PM

I will forgive your stupidity because at least you're not delusional ,or in a state of denial, like Qizilbash is.

View PostParsistani, on 18 September 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

The thing is that you Turkic maniacs are the most dumbest people, led by your Anatolian ''heroes'' (A study confirmed the most intelligent people of Europe and Turks were on the last position! http://news.softpedi...s-20341.shtml). You are like cave-monkies, far away of reality, emotional, people without an own identity or history. That´s why you claim on others´ heritages. ''Mohammad was a Turk'', ''The first civilizaton was Turkic'', ''Sumerians were Turks'' ... :rolleyes:

Those are the Turks in Turkey. Fuck them. They're Turkified Indo-Europeans. They're too butthurt to admit they were originally Aryan and have nothing to do with real Turks. They should go back and speak Indo-European languages like they used to before, since most of them are genetically Aryan and have little in common with us real Turks.

Quote

Aryanization took 1300years ago place on Turks and later even on Mongols and it still run deep through your vains. You can not stop it because majority of Turks became urbane people, bonded to their greater masters, be it Russia, China or any other world power, adoptet the original culture and heritage of the region they live today. The days of moving from point X to point B is over and the days of sword and mass killing is gone like a dry fart with the wind. Russification was completed in Kasakhstan and Kyrgyztan, it´s just a question of time when they will call themself as Russians.

Those 2 countries are a lost cause. The country that would shape destiny of the true Turks is Turkemnistan, followed by Uzbekistan.

Quote

Uzbekistan will follow. We see everyday Uzbekistan´s convertite Islam Karimov how Uzbek he is when he is promoting Aryan heritage as ''Uzbek'' heritage (just to fool the Turkic mass) and Russian influence as Uzbekistan´s obligated foreign policy. Without Russia, Uzbekistan would be alone, only depending on it´s natural ''vain'', Aral Sea and some rivers. The Russian influence just keep your death a bit far from you but it will not stop you from dying. You self damaged your own country and now you have to pay for it. Russia do not like you but they need something from you, that´s why they still have a grip on your name, but whenever they can they will kick Uzbekistan out of the CIS.

I dont mind a Farsiwan central asia but its not going to happen. Kyrguzstan and Kozakhstan might become russified if not already. But with the indo-europeans down south, persianization will be more difficult to achieve. It is not in the nature of Aryans to impose their assimilation on others. Russians are probably the best at it. But Iranians arent. Iranians sadly bend over and take some more from Turks. They take some more even from the FAKE Turks. Thats how embarrassing Persians have become since Genghis Khan killed 75% of them. I told you before, I wish ca was farsiwan because I know my people and Im not fond of my people. But their brutality overcomes Persian influence, because Persians have always been too peaceful to impose something on others.

By the way Im not making a silly claim. Tajikistan is 50-52% Tajik, 35% Uzbek, rest are Pamirs and whatever.
My brother married to a Tajik woman. Whats special about her is she comes from a pure line going back to Herat. I keep telling my brother how lucky he is to marry her. Shes brown hair, nice light skin color and pretty face. She has a smaller sister one day incalah if I can marry her it will be nice.

Tajikistanis are afraid of Chinese takeover. This is very true. Some rightwing Tajikis are also afraid of sudden increase in Uzbek population, especially the real Uzbeks, not the Uzbekified Tajiks. Theyre all around the northern parts of Dushanbe and some of them are filthy rich, taking poor Tajik women from villages for wives because they know families will accept the money.

There is a serious problem in Tajikistan and Im making you aware of it. You ppl should stop these problems.

Khodzent is literally Chink. Full of Kyrguz and Ozbekis.
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Posted 19 September 2011 - 07:34 PM

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هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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