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The Tajik Tragedy Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 05:34 AM

View PostGul agha, on 16 November 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

Nader Shah aziz the Tajiks in Afghanistan have successfully defended themselves without anyone's aid or help. The Tajiks were the most organized military force from the 1980s to the early 2000s under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud. When Tajiks get provoked they are more war-like than any other ethnic group in Afghanistan. For example, the fieriest resistance against the British, Russians and the Taliban were carried out by the Tajiks in Kohistan, Panjshir, Takhar and many other areas.

Here is a video posted by an anti-Massoud Hazara where Massoud with the Tajik Shi'ite leaders are talking about Iran, Uzbekistan and Pakistan's involvement in the 1990s and their support for the Shuraah-hamaahangi between the Pashtuns, Hazaras and Uzbeks.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=O1YxSXiTMGU


I do agree that Ahmad Shah Massoud was indeed the most effective Mujahid commander

However, i cant overlook his massacre of the Shias of kabul in Afshar
I cant overlook his cooperation with the thugs of Sayyaf

Gul agha, you are a persian speaking shia and a Qezelbash to boot
The residents of afshar were persian speaking shias

How can you condone the massacres in Afshar?

Above all,
Lets assume that Mazari was in the wrong and that the residents of Afshar were neither persian-speaking nor shia
How can you condone the massacre of civilians?

i dont want to sound sectarian but our qezelbash shia faith is a heirloom that is the product of the blood and sweat of our forefathers
Dont forget your roots, gul agha khan
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#22 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 05:45 AM

View PostGul agha, on 17 November 2010 - 12:26 AM, said:

Lur aziz what do you know about the Jawansher clan.


They are a branch of the Afshar and they historically lived in Armenia, Azerbaijan Republic and eastern Georgia
They were very big landowners in the Qarabagh region of Azerbaijan (Actually, i think Qarabagh was considered to be their personal property).

Today, the Iranian Jawanshir are concentrated in Tabriz and Tehran
Most of them fled from Armenia/Azerbaijan republic in the aftermath of the Russian takeover

They are extremely persianate and even the few thousand living in modern-day Azerbaijan Republic still speak Persian and teach persian to their children

A large number of Jawanshir live in Afghanistan (where they settled in the aftermath of Nader Shah's invasion) but i suspect that you know more about the afghan Jawanshir than i do
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#23 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 06:09 AM

The Afshar Massecre is a myth. I had family members in Afshar during the 1990s and the Hazara Hezb e Wahdat caused more mischief for those people than anyone else even Sayyaf. Sayyaf did attack Afshar but the casualties did not exceed more than 150. However, most of the Qizilbash districts in Kabul were bombarded and attacked by the Hazaras (Murad Khani, Chendawol, Karte Sakhi). I am not against the Afsharis or any other turkic Qizilbash tribe. In fact, all of the Qizilbash were allied with Ahmad Shah Massoud, as you can see in the video their leaders are condemning the Hazara leader, Mazari. Even Akbari who was the leader of the Bayats of Ghazni and Bamiyan joined Massoud against Mazari.

View Postقزلباش, on 17 November 2010 - 05:34 AM, said:

I do agree that Ahmad Shah Massoud was indeed the most effective Mujahid commander

However, i cant overlook his massacre of the Shias of kabul in Afshar
I cant overlook his cooperation with the thugs of Sayyaf

Gul agha, you are a persian speaking shia and a Qezelbash to boot
The residents of afshar were persian speaking shias

How can you condone the massacres in Afshar?

Above all,
Lets assume that Mazari was in the wrong and that the residents of Afshar were neither persian-speaking nor shia
How can you condone the massacre of civilians?

i dont want to sound sectarian but our qezelbash shia faith is a heirloom that is the product of the blood and sweat of our forefathers
Dont forget your roots, gul agha khan

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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#24 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 06:23 AM

View PostGul agha, on 17 November 2010 - 01:09 AM, said:

The Afshar Massecre is a myth. I had family members in Afshar during the 1990s and the Hazara Hezb e Wahdat caused more mischief for those people than anyone else even Sayyaf. Sayyaf did attack Afshar but the casualties did not exceed more than 150. However, most of the Qizilbash districts in Kabul were bombarded and attacked by the Hazaras (Murad Khani, Chendawol, Karte Sakhi).


I am sorry to hear that
I hadn't known about that

I dont think the Iranian military had known about these attacks on the Qizilbash
Most of the higher ranking officers in the IRGC (Revolutionary Guards) are Qizilbash.
The Iranian military would never back anti-Qizilbash elements

In the 1990's the supreme commander of the revolutionary guards was Mohsen Rezai (a Bakhtiari Lur Qizilbash); i am certain that he would never have willing supported anything that harmed Qizilbash interests

Anyways, lets bygones be bygones
I yearn for the day when there is a united, non-sectarian persian movement in Afghanistan.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#25 User is offline   AbuMuslim Icon

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 05:12 PM

View Postقزلباش, on 17 November 2010 - 06:23 AM, said:

I am sorry to hear that
I hadn't known about that

I dont think the Iranian military had known about these attacks on the Qizilbash
Most of the higher ranking officers in the IRGC (Revolutionary Guards) are Qizilbash.
The Iranian military would never back anti-Qizilbash elements

In the 1990's the supreme commander of the revolutionary guards was Mohsen Rezai (a Bakhtiari Lur Qizilbash); i am certain that he would never have willing supported anything that harmed Qizilbash interests

Anyways, lets bygones be bygones
I yearn for the day when there is a united, non-sectarian persian movement in Afghanistan.


Point No. 1
There not beef between Shias and Sunnis in Afghanistan that time. And the wars in kaulb were ethnically secterian or partisan. The claim that massoud massacred shias is anything but the truth. In fact, all the non-hazara shias Like Ayatollah Mohseni, Anwari, Mustafa Kazeni, Said Hadi, Ali Javed and so on..and even plenty of Hazaras like Akbari were in Side of massoud. It was between the forces of government which invovled Tajiks/Hazaras/Shias and pashtuns(Sayyaf) and Hezb Wahdat which happen to be Shia!.

It is Ironic that for you in Iran they cry and claim that it was killing of Shia while here in Afghanistan Hazara play the victime of being killed coz of being Hazara not shia. Whatever happned it was due to the selfeshness of Mazari Lantullah who sided with the evil Gulbuddin and his greed for power despite being allocated 8 ministries (before they were not even a piada). But still fought massoud coz He was a Tajik. First, when mazari came from Iran he played the card of shia to incite hatred against others and play victime but failed coz shias were on all sides. Then he started the card ethnicity and nationalism. very clever.

Point No.2
There was NO massacare in Afshar. The forces of government launched an operation to rout the HQ of mazari of western part of Kabul who was constatnly bombing Kabul and who was an ally of Gulbuddin. He had stationed his base In social sceinces university which is around afshar. The target was that building. Even Afshar was not exclusive Hazara but mixed BUT hazara claim it as their own.
The death toll is not Above 70 people. Not even 1 person. Now compare it with 1000 dead hazaras claim. This was no exception to the 100000s killed in Afghanistan through all years and their was no massacre in here so NO victimisation and playing Jews to claim something.

What u see in Hazara website during Afshar is utter none sense. Why don't they talk about their own killing of their enemies shia/sunni. nailing them on head, mass murderirng, cuting women's breasts and throwing prisoners to the lion in the zoo.

So pleasae don't be fooled by that Akhod Allagh Yari on Ahle Bait TV who is a mad crazy person or the Hazara website. Nobody has killed shias for being shia. People have been killed who happened to be shia/sunni
I am the servant of the Qur'an as long as I have life.
I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen One.
If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings,
I am quit of him and outraged by these words.
Movlana Jalaluddin Balkhi
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#26 User is offline   Kakar Icon

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 06:00 PM

View PostGul agha, on 17 November 2010 - 12:43 AM, said:

This is not true. In northern Afghanistan we have more problems with the Uzbeks than with the Pashtuns. Until a year ago the Pashtuns in Balkh were allied with the Tajik nationalists under the leadership of Ostad Atta and both groups successfully removed uzbeks from Balkh but because of the anti Tajik elements in the Afghan Millat and Hezb Islami the Pashtuns in those regions turned against the Tajiks and people like Juma Khan Hamdard, Hanif Atmar, and Faroq Wardak supported this. You can't blame everything on us.


I always wondered how Dostum was sidelined so seemingly easy from Balkh.....

but I have some questions

i know that there was local opposition to Juma Khan, for his perceived pro Pashtun policies, but can you provide specifics?

also, i know that there was a issue that has been kept quiet which is that Karzai sent some armed militants into Balk to cause agitation....but at the same time, we have heard reports of many Pashtun elders being killed by mysterious forces, and also in the recent elections, Pashtuns were disenfranchised....can you please provide more info on these issues effecting both parties/?
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#27 User is offline   Kakar Icon

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 06:03 PM

View PostNader Shah, on 17 November 2010 - 12:15 AM, said:

Interesting ... although I share your sympathies for all oppressed people, let me add some counterpoints.

Why stop at Samarkand and Bukhara ? Why not retake Marv, and the whole of Turkmenistan as well (not to mention Tajik parts of Afghanistan) ? After all, Samarkand and Bukhara are not the only places where genocide took place. Also, don't you think Turkey would take advantage of the situation and jump into Iranian Azarbaijan ? After all, they claim that the 'Turks' are oppressed in Iran, regardless of whether they were turkified or not. And in the end everyone will end up suffering more ... And any encouragement from nationalist Pashtuns your idea gets is suspicious, I am sure those who have bad intentions towards Iran and Tajiks would love nothing more than Iran jumping into a military adventure somewhere outside Afghanistan, and get in deep trouble so that they can better oppress their minorities in Afghanistan.

As for secular-nationalists taking control of Iran, don't hold your breath. Although there is a trend, it is still mostly among some young educated people, especially in Tehran, but I doubt that more than 15% of the population is secularist-nationalist. It will frankly take a few decades, if it ever happened, one generation at the very least. Religion still has a huge stronghold, unfortunately most Iranians are still automatons whose programming software was designed in its core in Arabia 1400 years ago and later in Mesopotamia with Shiism. It is saddening and I do not enjoy saying this but I debated many people who thought the current system will collapse within months, and nothing happened, I argued exactly as I do now ... and I happened to spend almost a year in Iran recently. Many people who supported this guy Mousavi are simply religious people, the same type of people who supported Khomeini.


you need to clarify what u mean by " pashtun nationalists". some are your enemies, and some are your natural allies
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#28 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:29 AM

View PostAbuMuslim, on 17 November 2010 - 12:12 PM, said:

Point No. 1
There not beef between Shias and Sunnis in Afghanistan that time. And the wars in kaulb were ethnically secterian or partisan. The claim that massoud massacred shias is anything but the truth. In fact, all the non-hazara shias Like Ayatollah Mohseni, Anwari, Mustafa Kazeni, Said Hadi, Ali Javed and so on..and even plenty of Hazaras like Akbari were in Side of massoud. It was between the forces of government which invovled Tajiks/Hazaras/Shias and pashtuns(Sayyaf) and Hezb Wahdat which happen to be Shia!.

It is Ironic that for you in Iran they cry and claim that it was killing of Shia while here in Afghanistan Hazara play the victime of being killed coz of being Hazara not shia. Whatever happned it was due to the selfeshness of Mazari Lantullah who sided with the evil Gulbuddin and his greed for power despite being allocated 8 ministries (before they were not even a piada). But still fought massoud coz He was a Tajik. First, when mazari came from Iran he played the card of shia to incite hatred against others and play victime but failed coz shias were on all sides. Then he started the card ethnicity and nationalism. very clever.

Point No.2
There was NO massacare in Afshar. The forces of government launched an operation to rout the HQ of mazari of western part of Kabul who was constatnly bombing Kabul and who was an ally of Gulbuddin. He had stationed his base In social sceinces university which is around afshar. The target was that building. Even Afshar was not exclusive Hazara but mixed BUT hazara claim it as their own.
The death toll is not Above 70 people. Not even 1 person. Now compare it with 1000 dead hazaras claim. This was no exception to the 100000s killed in Afghanistan through all years and their was no massacre in here so NO victimisation and playing Jews to claim something.

What u see in Hazara website during Afshar is utter none sense. Why don't they talk about their own killing of their enemies shia/sunni. nailing them on head, mass murderirng, cuting women's breasts and throwing prisoners to the lion in the zoo.

So pleasae don't be fooled by that Akhod Allagh Yari on Ahle Bait TV who is a mad crazy person or the Hazara website. Nobody has killed shias for being shia. People have been killed who happened to be shia/sunni


I reiterate that i have no problem with the eviction of wahdat from Afshar
I do realize that they were indeed shelling Kabul

At the same time, i have a hard time believing that Sayyaf's wahabis behaved like gentlemen towards the civilian populace of Afshar.
I dont care if it was 7, 70 or 700; even a single murder of a civilian is inexcusable.

PS. Rocketyar is a moron, i have no idea why wahadat formed an alliance with that retard. His only skill appears to be artillery bombardment; even at that, he can only hit big targets....say, roughly the size of Kabul.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#29 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:45 AM

View PostKakar, on 17 November 2010 - 01:03 PM, said:

you need to clarify what u mean by " pashtun nationalists". some are your enemies, and some are your natural allies


we must be realistic.
The "dreams" of Persian nationalists and the "dreams" of certain Pashtun nationalists overlap to some extent;
its as if we are two men in love with the same woman, there is bound to be some friction :D

The extent of the overlap between our visions determines the extent of the friction between us.

Therefore, we are bound to have far greater friction with Loy-Afghanistan type Pashtun nationalists than with Pashtunistan-type pashtun nationalists

In fact, i dont think we would have any conflict with Pashtunistan-type nationalists.

I would actually be pleased to have a culturally Iranic country to our east than can function as a bulwark against the decayed and repulsive desi pseudo-culture of the Indian subcontinent
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#30 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:18 PM

Gula Aghaye aziz, thanks for the clarifications and the interesting video.

View PostGul agha, on 17 November 2010 - 04:24 AM, said:

Nader Shah aziz the Tajiks in Afghanistan have successfully defended themselves without anyone's aid or help. The Tajiks were the most organized military force from the 1980s to the early 2000s under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud. When Tajiks get provoked they are more war-like than any other ethnic group in Afghanistan. For example, the fieriest resistance against the British, Russians and the Taliban were carried out by the Tajiks in Kohistan, Panjshir, Takhar and many other areas.

Here is a video posted by an anti-Massoud Hazara where Massoud with the Tajik Shi'ite leaders are talking about Iran, Uzbekistan and Pakistan's involvement in the 1990s and their support for the Shuraah-hamaahangi between the Pashtuns, Hazaras and Uzbeks.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=O1YxSXiTMGU

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#31 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:36 PM

I was only trying to say that it is not wise for any country to start a military confrontation, especially not Iran nowadays. People have different viewpoints on military engagement, I believe in a very strong defense but not in any provocations. Others may have different viewpoints, although it does not necessarily mean they have bad intentions towards Iran. As for Pashtun nationalists, I should not have generalized, I do not know them well. Surely, some of them are very hostile towards Iran, and their 'encouragement' cannot be taken as friendly advice.

As for the situation in Afghanistan, it is up to the people of that country to decide. In general, I believe that the welfare of people should matter above all. I do not wish to see Pashtuns get slaughtered in millions for the sake of annexing parts of Pakistan into a greater Pashtunistan, although some Persians may be very happy to see that. I think the least harmful solution is for Afghanistan to have a decentralized, federalist system that allows all groups to be happy without having to fight each other.

I prefer to sit back and learn about Afghanistan. The people of that country know their country best.

View PostKakar, on 17 November 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

you need to clarify what u mean by " pashtun nationalists". some are your enemies, and some are your natural allies

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#32 User is offline   Kakar Icon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:38 PM

View Postقزلباش, on 18 November 2010 - 01:45 AM, said:

we must be realistic.
The "dreams" of Persian nationalists and the "dreams" of certain Pashtun nationalists overlap to some extent;
its as if we are two men in love with the same woman, there is bound to be some friction :D

The extent of the overlap between our visions determines the extent of the friction between us.

Therefore, we are bound to have far greater friction with Loy-Afghanistan type Pashtun nationalists than with Pashtunistan-type pashtun nationalists

In fact, i dont think we would have any conflict with Pashtunistan-type nationalists.

I would actually be pleased to have a culturally Iranic country to our east than can function as a bulwark against the decayed and repulsive desi pseudo-culture of the Indian subcontinent


I dont think there is any conflict with my type of Pashtun nationalist. I dont believe in Loy Afghanistan, as it is inherently unfair and discriminatory towards non Pashtuns

I would love to see a united Iran or Aryana from Iran to northern Afghanistan to Tajikistan, a united culture of persians

I only care for Pakhtun unification. I have no claim on Mazar, but rather Peshawar and Waziristan.

I dont wish to waste one second pushing Pashto on non Pashtuns. I dedicate my life to teaching and implementing Pashto on PASHTUNS so we dont have to run to Urdu or Farsi for business and education.

I would love to see a Iran zameen in perfect harmony and relations with Pakhtunkhwa. In fact i think its necessary to counter Chinese, Russian and Indian(Pakistan too) influence

plus geographically, a Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan states can trade with Iran zameen, you provide us access to central asia and persian gulf, and we provide access to the indian subcontinent

we already share cultural and linguistic linkages....

we both have common enemies and destinies
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#33 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 09:14 PM

View PostKakar, on 18 November 2010 - 03:38 PM, said:

I dont think there is any conflict with my type of Pashtun nationalist. I dont believe in Loy Afghanistan, as it is inherently unfair and discriminatory towards non Pashtuns

I would love to see a united Iran or Aryana from Iran to northern Afghanistan to Tajikistan, a united culture of persians

I only care for Pakhtun unification. I have no claim on Mazar, but rather Peshawar and Waziristan.

I dont wish to waste one second pushing Pashto on non Pashtuns. I dedicate my life to teaching and implementing Pashto on PASHTUNS so we dont have to run to Urdu or Farsi for business and education.

I would love to see a Iran zameen in perfect harmony and relations with Pakhtunkhwa. In fact i think its necessary to counter Chinese, Russian and Indian(Pakistan too) influence

plus geographically, a Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan states can trade with Iran zameen, you provide us access to central asia and persian gulf, and we provide access to the indian subcontinent

we already share cultural and linguistic linkages....

we both have common enemies and destinies


I, too, only aspire towards the unification of areas inhabited by my ethnic brethren; not an inch more

i think your geopolitic model is both sound and sensible
I also sympathize with your desire to develop and enrich your language;
I, myself, am a Persian nationalist but i nevertheless have a special place in my heart for the Luri dialect of my forefathers and i would work to preserve it.

Since you brought up cultural similarity, check out this video I found on youtube:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=7SQ2ICKLQLA
It compares Luri dance with Pashtun dance :)

The example of Luri dance used in the above video is actually on the milder side
Our nowruz qizilbash dance is huge and it usually takes place on the plain of Mount Dena
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=f93OEKe_dec

Its super chaotic; there people riding horses through the crowd, there are people firing into the air, there are people swinging a sword in one hand and a dastmal in other as they dance :lol: ...but its also extremely fun.
Im gonna be in Iran almost exactly a month from now :)
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#34 User is offline   Parsi_zaban Icon

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:48 AM

----
چــو ایــــــــران نبـاشد تن من مباد
بدین بوم و بر زنــده یک تن مباد
دریـغ است ایــران که ویران شود
کنـام پلنگـــــــان و شیــــــران شود
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#35 User is offline   Parsi_zaban Icon

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:15 AM

----
چــو ایــــــــران نبـاشد تن من مباد
بدین بوم و بر زنــده یک تن مباد
دریـغ است ایــران که ویران شود
کنـام پلنگـــــــان و شیــــــران شود
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#36 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:24 AM

Iran has always been more than just the Persian speaking parts, especially in times of so-called glory; you are entitled to your viewpoint but it is a minority viewpoint; it might happen with foreign intervention, or in the distant future some may choose to separate if allowed to ... of course you have to add to the list, turkmen areas, baluchestan, and like it or not the arabs in parts of khuzestan will want to secede too; it will not be the end of the world, but at least concerning azaris they are so intertwined with the rest of iran that it seems unthinkable; however, i can imagine a federalist iran in the future, where non-persian areas will have some form of autonomy --- it will happen sooner or later, or there might be a breakup, forced assimilation has not worked in core areas of non-persian ethnicity ... but why think of Iran as only Persian - that maybe your choice, but many other 'multi-ethnic' nations have thrived - take for example switzerland; even France has its basques, germans, and brittany ... india is another example, and so is china ... the soviet breakup is a bit different because central asians have nothing in common with russians ... even today's russia is a multi-ethnic state (look closely) ...

View PostParsi_zaban, on 19 November 2010 - 06:48 AM, said:

thirdly, weather you like it or not Iran will break up, Iran is like the former USSR, the current borders simply do not make any sense, there is no common denominator, the borders simply pieces of a former great empire. to be frank with you i hope it will break up sooner then later, meaning that kordestan and azarbaijan getting out (ps Khuzestan is majority fars, bakhtiari, lur so no arab claim there). look at all the countries in the world there is no wealthy multi-ethnic state that is prosperous, especially in the third world. having a more homogenous we are going to have a better chance becoming a developed nation, also there will be more money not having to spend a large amount of money on the separtist movements and alike. plus most resources and developed cities are persian that means less people and more resources for us. now onto other persians outside of iran, i like to see northern afghanistan, tajikistan and bukhara, samarkand, and surkhandarya of the so called country uzbekistan to join us and have great persian nation. maybe like this we will even see some of the glories of our past. but this is their choice if they want to be with their brethen persians or ajanbis, same goes for the talysh of rep. of aran, but most talysh actually want to be part of iran i know this for a fact). in case if that happend not only most of central asia's valuable resources be under persian control, but also strategically we will own the region, meaning more wealth for persians. thirdly we will have direct borders will china market of 1.2 billion people. All this will mean an extremely powerful and rich Persian nation. lot of this can be done quite easliy as,Tajiks of aghanistan can seperate easily with the help of persians of iran, as there is no strong central control in afganistan. I am simply a persian nationalist and i have no desire to keep iran as it is, the current borders simply does not make sense as i mentioned above.

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#37 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:34 AM

afghanistan is a failed state, and it does not have the sense of nationhood that iran has and had for a long long time ... however, I do not see a breakup in the near future, unless some outside country intervenes forcefully... with all due respect to our dear tajiks here, I am not convinced that there is a strong separatist movement, outside of some intellectual circles, among the majority of people (in a few decades this might change) ... and despite the successes of Ahmad Shah Massoud, he was only able to hold on to a small enclave in the Panjshir Valley ... in the long term though, I think Afghanistan is likely to break up but nobody can predict the future ...

on a different note, to what extent were foreigners involved in the creation of Afghanistan ... what do our Tajik friends think ?

View PostParsi_zaban, on 19 November 2010 - 07:15 AM, said:

afganistan is failed state and it will never be united again, the more you try to hold it together the worst it will get. non of these states that were created by foreigners have a chance of surviving or ever being a half decent countries. the best they can be is being a whore to a foreign country.

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#38 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:45 AM

Persians outside Iran are not rich or industrially /scientifically advanced compared to neighbours, only culturally somewhat more sophisticated than non-Persians. Tajikistan is always mentioned as the poorest Central Asian country, and it does not have any significant industries, only potential for hydro-electric power which needs huge capital to become fruitful; Samarqand and Bokhara are historic cities not centers of industry; Persians in Afghanistan may be more sophisticated culturally than Pashtuns, but Afghanistan as a whole is extremely undeveloped in modern terms; even in Iran, most of the entrepreneurs and risk takers are Azarbaijani, not Persian ... oil revenues have been channeled into Persian areas and state has done more to develop those areas ... I don't see that much ground for a very rich and powerful addition to Iran from those Persian speaking areas outside Iran, if anything they would add a tremendous burden on Iran for their development needs, more so than the non-Persian parts which are part of Iran today (except perhaps Baluchestan, but lately there has been a large influx of money to develop that area too) .. let us be realistic and not fantasize

View PostParsi_zaban, on 19 November 2010 - 06:48 AM, said:

Sor now onto other persians outside of iran, i like to see northern afghanistan, tajikistan and bukhara, samarkand, and surkhandarya of the so called country uzbekistan to join us and have great persian nation. maybe like this we will even see some of the glories of our past. but this is their choice if they want to be with their brethen persians or ajanbis, same goes for the talysh of rep. of aran, but most talysh actually want to be part of iran i know this for a fact). in case if that happend not only most of central asia's valuable resources be under persian control, but also strategically we will own the region, meaning more wealth for persians. thirdly we will have direct borders will china market of 1.2 billion people. All this will mean an extremely powerful and rich Persian nation.

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#39 User is offline   Parsi_zaban Icon

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:09 AM

---
چــو ایــــــــران نبـاشد تن من مباد
بدین بوم و بر زنــده یک تن مباد
دریـغ است ایــران که ویران شود
کنـام پلنگـــــــان و شیــــــران شود
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#40 User is offline   Parsi_zaban Icon

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:15 AM

----
چــو ایــــــــران نبـاشد تن من مباد
بدین بوم و بر زنــده یک تن مباد
دریـغ است ایــران که ویران شود
کنـام پلنگـــــــان و شیــــــران شود
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