[Nader Shah]

http://www.foreignpo...s_little_prince

IUn a 2001 poll conducted by the World Values Survey, Iranians ranked No. 1 in the world when it came to nationalism, with 92 percent of Iranians claiming they are "very proud" of their nationality (for point of comparison, 72 percent of Americans and less than 50 percent of the British and French felt "very proud").

[Nader Shah]

so why dont u tajiks sell yourselves as the lost or oppressed iranians ..
i guess u are too much in love with pashtuns to do othewise
so neither do we care ...
pashtuns will care more for you

Nader Shah, on 09 January 2011 - 03:58 AM, said:

http://www.foreignpo...s_little_prince

IUn a 2001 poll conducted by the World Values Survey, Iranians ranked No. 1 in the world when it came to nationalism, with 92 percent of Iranians claiming they are "very proud" of their nationality (for point of comparison, 72 percent of Americans and less than 50 percent of the British and French felt "very proud").

[Parsi_zaban]

Nader Shah, on 08 January 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

so why dont u tajiks sell yourselves as the lost or oppressed iranians ..
i guess u are too much in love with pashtuns to do othewise
so neither do we care ...
pashtuns will care more for you

tajiks of afganistan need more people like parsistani

[arshak]

I wish the stats were true but it's not the case.
1) Some people attend conferences and meetings in Arab countries and seat under a huge logo that displays "Arabian Gulf".
2) Certain groups or people go and destroy historical sites such as Persepolis in post-revolution, ill administers trying to flood Pasargard and some groups threatening to destroy the tombs of Mordechai and Esther.
3) Some finance and assist Arab leaders who later betray the Persian nation such as Yasser Arafat who went on and supported Saddam in Iran-Iraq War or others who support the name of Arabian Gulf or arab separatist groups in Ahvaz.
4) those who forbid persians to celebrate their traditional festivals like Nowrooz, Mehregan, Tiregan, Sadeh, Cheleh, Chaharshanbeh-soori etc.
5) at Iran's borders(airport customs) nationals of Iran get treated worse than all foreigners apart from Afghanistani nationals who get treated the worse. Yes it's true customs treat all europeans, arab nationals(like Iraqi, Bahraini, Qatari,etc) with warm friendly welcome and Iranians get treated like criminal or worse and they completely behave so inhumanly towards Afghanistani passport holders. In other countries first they treat their own nationals very well then other nationals.
6) No one values the environment, flora and fauna.
7) All funding goes to city of Tehran and rest of country live in poverty and experience tough life.
#8 Country full of traitors, there are many who are like those Rigi brothers or those pan-turkists or Ahwazi groups who betray their country. Filthy traitors who get their paychecks from foreigners.
9) People's lives are not valued. People have to fly on old crappy Tupolev or other soviet aircraft.

when all these points cease to exist then Iranians can proudly say that they're nationalists otherwise Iran is country of number one traitors and soon will end up the same as Afghanistan under the Taliban, another nation full of traitors.

Iran is number#1 in the world for being nation of traitors and selfish people who think of themselves. History shows it, we don't need to hide anything. If Taliban was still in power in Afghanistan then Iran would have been ranked #2 nation of traitors.

[Nader Shah]

I was teasing and joking around ... nothing serious in my comments.

I think arshak makes very good points too...

Nothing to brag about

[AbuMuslim]

Nader Shah, on 09 January 2011 - 03:58 AM, said:

http://www.foreignpo...s_little_prince

IUn a 2001 poll conducted by the World Values Survey, Iranians ranked No. 1 in the world when it came to nationalism, with 92 percent of Iranians claiming they are "very proud" of their nationality (for point of comparison, 72 percent of Americans and less than 50 percent of the British and French felt "very proud").

Thats why they are so technologically progressed and well ahead of Americans who have less than 300 years of history compared to your 7000 year old civilization
Well ahead of British who are 50% nationalists. Now don't tell me it was due to the akhonds. Akhonds have been around for 30 years only.

Personally, I proud to be Tajik and don't feel proud on Iran. We would have been easily better than them had we not been forcefully occupied by pashtuns and not endured 30 years of continued war

[Nader Shah]

Why do you have these feelings towards Iran and Iranians ?

Who is defending akhonds here ? Why do you think I am pro-akhund ?

Anyway ... Afghanistan is not exactly a model of technological progress and advancement, let alone in other ways.

What do you have to be proud of ?

AbuMuslim, on 09 January 2011 - 11:55 PM, said:

Thats why they are so technologically progressed and well ahead of Americans who have less than 300 years of history compared to your 7000 year old civilization
Well ahead of British who are 50% nationalists. Now don't tell me it was due to the akhonds. Akhonds have been around for 30 years only.

Personally, I proud to be Tajik and don't feel proud on Iran. We would have been easily better than them had we not been forcefully occupied by pashtuns and not endured 30 years of continued war

[Nader Shah]

sometimes i think the only real afi people on this forum with drive and passion ... is only one person - parsistani ...
the rest, except for admins and non-'afghans', are simply too soft ...
but we need many young parsistanis, not an old parsistani, many younger people
to fight for their right

Parsi_zaban, on 09 January 2011 - 07:50 AM, said:

tajiks of afganistan need more people like parsistani

[Gul agha]

Nader Shah I have no bias like Abu Muslim but Khorasan (Eastern Iran/modern Afghanistan,Tajikistan,Uzbekistan) was more progressive than Western Iran for hundreds of years and much of what Iranians in general take pride in came from Khorasan. Nader Shah this Western Iranian-centric attitude is why many Tajiks are hostile to Iranians. Most Iranian nationalists (not akhonds) think of Western Iran as the successor state of Greater Iran and states surrounding it as its lost territories and descendants (the famous saying: Iran maadar ast va keshwar haye ham-jawaar farzand). Let me remind you that even before the Iranian revolution when Iran had a nationalist in power, nothing was done by Iranians to save Tajiks in Afghanistan. Our older generations still remember how the Shah's government knew what was going on in Afghanistan but they continued to support Pashtun Chauvinists who were in power. So this is why I don't blame Tajiks like Abu Muslim who are hostile and critical towards most Iranians.

[Gul agha]

We saved Western Iran too many times in history and we haven't seen anything in return from them till today. Today Iranians have the wealthiest and most nationalist groups all over the world but none of them for a single day have extended a helping hand towards us.

[Gul agha]

There are thousands of Parsistanis inside Afghanistan but when they are not supported by our dear Persians, they will not be able to free themselves from Pashtun rule.

[Nader Shah]

Your dear Persians in Iran are not free themselves

Why don't our dear Persians in Afghanistan help us free ourselves from Mullah rule ?

Obviously,

Gul agha, on 10 January 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

There are thousands of Parsistanis inside Afghanistan but when they are not supported by our dear Persians, they will not be able to free themselves from Pashtun rule.

[Nader Shah]

Regardless of what happened in the past, it does not help Tajiks to continue showing hostility (the way Abu Muslim does). How can it serve your interests to shoot yourselves in the foot, assuming your consider yourselves to be one with us ? If you consider yourself separate from us, then why do you expect help from us ? Do you see the vicious circle ? You and I can help change the future so that the past is not repeated, but by holding on to grudges we help perpetuate past patterns of estrangement and hostility.

During the shah, whatever happened ... I don't know enough about it to comment. But, I guess you could say the Shah was following a foreign policy that had to align Iranian with US interests, so he did not have much of a choice if he was really a puppet of the US as many believe he was. Besides there was no push from either Tajiks in Afghanistan or Iranians in Iran to do anything in Afghanistan...and if I am wrong, please correct me.

And if you think about it, during IRI Iran has accepted millions of Afghan refugees, had backed Northern Alliance against Taliban, and I am sure there are a few other things that could be added to the list (like reconstruction help to Af more than any other neighboring country).

Anyway, I hope Qizilibash, Arman, Arshak, Parsistani can comment.

Gul agha, on 10 January 2011 - 09:13 PM, said:

Nader Shah I have no bias like Abu Muslim but Khorasan (Eastern Iran/modern Afghanistan,Tajikistan,Uzbekistan) was more progressive than Western Iran for hundreds of years and much of what Iranians in general take pride in came from Khorasan. Nader Shah this Western Iranian-centric attitude is why many Tajiks are hostile to Iranians. Most Iranian nationalists (not akhonds) think of Western Iran as the successor state of Greater Iran and states surrounding it as its lost territories and descendants (the famous saying: Iran maadar ast va keshwar haye ham-jawaar farzand). Let me remind you that even before the Iranian revolution when Iran had a nationalist in power, nothing was done by Iranians to save Tajiks in Afghanistan. Our older generations still remember how the Shah's government knew what was going on in Afghanistan but they continued to support Pashtun Chauvinists who were in power. So this is why I don't blame Tajiks like Abu Muslim who are hostile and critical towards most Iranians.

[Gul agha]

Nader Shah, on 10 January 2011 - 10:21 PM, said:

Regardless of what happened in the past, it does not help Tajiks to continue showing hostility (the way Abu Muslim does). How can it serve your interests to shoot yourselves in the foot, assuming your consider yourselves to be one with us ? If you consider yourself separate from us, then why do you expect help from us ? Do you see the vicious circle ? You and I can help change the future so that the past is not repeated, but by holding on to grudges we help perpetuate past patterns of estrangement and hostility.

During the shah, whatever happened ... I don't know enough about it to comment. But, I guess you could say the Shah was following a foreign policy that had to align Iranian with US interests, so he did not have much of a choice if he was really a puppet of the US as many believe he was. Besides there was no push from either Tajiks in Afghanistan or Iranians in Iran to do anything in Afghanistan...and if I am wrong, please correct me.

And if you think about it, during IRI Iran has accepted millions of Afghan refugees, had backed Northern Alliance against Taliban, and I am sure there are a few other things that could be added to the list (like reconstruction help to Af more than any other neighboring country).

Anyway, I hope Qizilibash, Arman, Arshak, Parsistani can comment.

I am not propagating separation. I have for years supported Persian unity amongst Western and Eastern (Tajiks) Persians and I still will. I just wanted to inform you why some Tajiks are hostile towards Iranians and it is not their fault. The Shah was capable of freeing us but he didn't. Many nationalist groups existed inside Afghanistan but none supported them. There were many Iranian intellectuals in Afghanistan and except Mahmoud Afshar Yazdi, none of the others were sympathetic towards us. The other reason why Tajiks are hostile is because Iranians label everything as theirs. I have even meet Iranian nationalists claiming the Persian language originated from modern Iran and most Iranian personalities were born in modern Iran and they even believe places mentioned in the Shahnama like Balkh and Samangaan are mythological.
Iran accepted millions of refugees but were they given any rights? They were even denied education, something that could have helped Iran in the future. Iran did not help Tajiks during the resistence. Recently, many declassified documents has exposed that Iran too had a hand in Ahmad Shah Massoud's assasination (you can find these in Razaaq Mamoon's book Rad-paay Fer'awn). Iran also gave refuge to our enemy Hekmatyar and supported the Pashtuns, Uzbeks and Hazaras in the early 90s.

[Gul agha]

Today, our leader is General Atta Noor, the governor of Balkh province. He is the first Tajik after 1000 years of Uzbek/Pashtun cruelty and unjust rule to rule Balkh. He has brought security and prosperity in that region and has revived the Tajik/Iranian identity in his province. However, Iran is openly helping his rivals in Balkh (Dostum and Muhaqeq). In 1998 when we lost Balkh to the Taliban, General Atta (also known as Ostad Atta) fled to Iran for refuge but Iran denied his request for a visa but gave refuge to Pashtun(Gulbudeen Hekmatyar). When Atta was denied a visa in Iran, the Iranian gov't deported him to Pakistan where he was arrested in the airport (Ahmad Shah Massoud paid a huge bribe to free him from Pakistan). You see, these are some examples of what Iranians have done that has created this animosity and hostility amongst Tajiks towards Iran. Tajiks are unable to trust Iran and until Iranians themselves do not show their interest and support, the Tajiks will not change their views.

[Nader Shah]

Dear Gul Agha,

I can only express my sympathy for our Tajik brothers and sisters in Afghanistan. I can feel your sadness and frustration. What more can I say ? There is not much that is in my power to change ... and I am not here to defend any government. Most governments in the world are doing pretty devilish things, and people often come last in their calculations.

Perhaps the best the Tajiks can do for now is to strengthen themselves, and not expect too much help from outside.

My whole life, and that of my closest relatives, has been turned upside down by the revolution in Iran. Millions of Iranians had to flee the country. We are also suffering from what happened in our home country, but I know Afghanistanis have suffered far more.

My sympathies, once more. I do not wish to pour salt on your wounds by further debating this issue. Hopefully, others better informed than myself can add their views on this topic.

[arshak]

1. 19th century Persia post-Nader Shah Afshar period (under the Zands and later Qajar Dynasties) faced a hostile Pashtun Empire under the Durrani Dynasty. Also post Nader Shah dynasty, Azad Khan Ghilzai had conquered Azerbaijan and was ruling in Tabriz. British forced Persia to give up on Herat despite the fact that Persia had managed to recapture the territory and annex it back to Persia. The British continued to turn Persia's neighbours into hostile enemies such as Baluchs, Afghans, Arabs of Persian Gulf and Kurds from Ottoman Empire.

When the Pahlavi came to power they tried to sign peace treaties with the neighbours and many were signed with Republic of Turkey, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq and Kingdom of Afghanistan. Later on when Pakistan was created, that nation also became a friend. So you see, Pahlavi wanted to be secured from hostile neighbours. That worked very well until 1970s, when Iran had problems with Iraq due to Kurds and Arvandrud issue, also with Bahrain as that former territory wanted independence then with United Arab Emirates over ownership of several islands. Also British forced Iran to take part in Dhofar War in Oman.

In 1940s to mid-1960s, Iran faced many problems: first being invaded in 1941 by the allied forces, then in 1945-1946 two new independent republics(Democratic Republic of Azerbaijan with capital in Tabriz and Republic of Mahabad) were formed backed by USSR. In 1950s, Iran had problems with several political parties such as Sumka, Tudeh and National Front. In 1960s the country witnessed rise of militant groups such as Fadaeeyan Islam and also many Marxist groups like Mujahedin and Fadaeeyan Khalq, etc. 1970s the country again faced protests and then there was the revolution. Iran under the Pahlavi was a very busy Iran and thus the Pahlavi only wanted good relations with neighbours and therefore they did not mendle in neighbours' affairs(apart from 1970s when they got involved in Dhofar War and also involved with Iraqi Kurds but then again it was because of USA-UK alliance.

2. Ayato.. Khomeini condemned the invasion of Afghanistan by USSR, he let borders be open and millions of Afghanistani people came to the country and now call Iran home. In Mashhad for instance there are many Heratis who been living in Iran for two/three generations some second/third generation having been born in Iran and know Iran as their homeland. This is despite the fact that Iran was at war with Iraq. Some namaknashnas Afghanistani nationals entered Iran and were involved in all type of crime such as drug/human terafficking, robberies, rape, murder, etc. These criminals produced a bad image of Afghanistani people.

Iran provided refugees with shelter, health and gave them buildings so they can use as schools. Yes, I do agree that they should have done more such as allow them to enrol in Iranian schools but one problem with Iranian schools was occupancy, you know in Iran back in 1980s, schools were operating in shifts there was morning shift and then night shift. Also in Iranian Khorasan there were also many refugees who came from Khuzestan, Kurdistan, Luristan, Elam and Tehran as their homes were being bombed by the Iraqis. Students in Khorasan were not very happy as classrooms became so full that there were not much room to move around. How would you propose that Khorasan provincial govt do more for Afghanistani refugees when the province had already faced problems and issues by the presence of refugees from war-zone areas from Iran? Tehran also faced problems as it was bombed by Iraq many-many times.

During the Afghanistan-USSR war, Iran supported Mujahedeen forces of Afghanistan(be it Masood, Ismail Khan, Rabbani, Hekmatyar, Mazari, etc).

3. Iran again supported Afghanistan financially and morally during the mujahedeen govt 1992-1996. When Taliban came to power, believe me no one in their sane mind would wanted to get involved with those Ahrimanan. Under Karzai, Iran has supported Afghanistan through trade, education and health. Also financially, Iran should not to be blamed for what happens to those financial-aid money, Afghanistani people should question their own govt?

4. The origins of Modern Persian language is from Eastern Iran(what's now Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Khorasan province in Iran). Ferdowsi being from Tus which lies in Iranian Khorasan means that Iran intellectuals are partially right as Ferdowsi who was from Iran alongside Rudaki who's from Tajikistan were known to be founders of modern Persian language.

[Parsistani]

@GulAgha

let´s don´t look back when everyside was our enemies. The Iranian government and Psahtuns. The most worse of them were Pashtuns who propagated an alienness of Tajiks from Iranians and Tajikistanis. They always fooled non-Psahtuns and systemized trheir policy against Iranian and the real history of the region (first ''Afghanisation'', than Pashtunization). Their work could only be succesful when they even could manipulate our minds, too, not only our country, lands, history and policy. Pashtuns made many non-Pashtuns hostile toward Iranians but their game today do not work and therefore look forward, not back.

Reza Shah Palavi wanted to liberate Tajiks from Pashtuns, but was not able because intern iranian problems and the force of international stage.

[قزلباش]

The Pahlavis (aka Savadkuhis) used every single means at their disposal to keep themselves on the throne
Mohammad Reza would had auctioned off his sister if it could have enabled him to remain on the throne.
The Pahlavis only cared about themselves.


Anyways, the relationship between Afghanistani Persians and Irani Persians is quite clear and the formation of a closer relationship between our peoples is inevitable in the long term

[Nader Shah]

Parsistani e aziz, I like your positive and forward-looking attitude, and I also like your passion and drive for what you care for (except the occasional bad language ). We indeed should not allow anti-Iranian elements in Afghanistan, bad personal experiences, or past history determine our present attitudes and/or determine the future. The past does not equal the future. Az Qizilbash rightly pointed out correctly, the closeness of the people is real, and the future will inevitably reflect that. Both sides need to understand each other better and go beyond misunderstandings.

Parsistani, on 12 January 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:

@GulAgha

let´s don´t look back when everyside was our enemies. The Iranian government and Psahtuns. The most worse of them were Pashtuns who propagated an alienness of Tajiks from Iranians and Tajikistanis. They always fooled non-Psahtuns and systemized trheir policy against Iranian and the real history of the region (first ''Afghanisation'', than Pashtunization). Their work could only be succesful when they even could manipulate our minds, too, not only our country, lands, history and policy. Pashtuns made many non-Pashtuns hostile toward Iranians but their game today do not work and therefore look forward, not back.

Reza Shah Palavi wanted to liberate Tajiks from Pashtuns, but was not able because intern iranian problems and the force of international stage.