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"Farsi-e-Qadim" the language of Nomadic Persians Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:37 PM

In recent centuries, Non-Lurs have come to refer to the language that the Lur-Bakhtiari speak as a distinct Persian dialect known as "Luri".

However, the term "Luri" is seldom used amongst our families. Even when we do use the term, it mainly serves as an ethnic designator for the Persian nomads living in Western Iran, not as a designation for our dialect.

Most of our elders refer to our language simply as "Farsi-e-Qadim" (Old Farsi).
I had often wondered why this term never appeared in the writings of European anthropologists who studied Lurs in the 19th Century. However, a few days ago, while i was reading Sir Austen Henry Layard's book on his travels in Persia, I finally encountered a reference to the term. I had failed to realized that English lacks the "gh" (Q) phoneme and so the phrase appeared instead as "Farsi-e-Kadim".
Using this new term, i was able to find a large number of works that discussed the language of the Lur-Bakhtiari Qizilbash and identified it as "Farsi-e-Kadim"

Most linguists assert that Luri is an off-shoot of either Old Persian or Middle Persian but i would take the argument further and argue that Luri-Bakhtiari is nothing more than an accent of Persian and Lurs-Bakhtiari are really simply Nomadic Persians.

I think the example of Fars province illustrates this point best; in the western part of the province you have the Mamasani "Lurs" and adjacent to Mamasani district you have the "Persian" district of Shiraz.The districts border on one another and the variant of "Luri" spoken in Mamasani is very close to the Shirazi accent of Persian. Yet, Shirazis are identified as Persians and Mamasanis as a seperate ethnic group simply because Shirazis are settled and Mamasanis are nomadic.
It is ludicrous.

Here as two of the sources that i found that deal with this topic:

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هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#2 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 01:21 AM

I also found these interesting excerpts that reveal the immense importance of classical Persian poetry in Nomadic Persian societies.



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هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#3 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 07:33 PM

can i ask something qizilbash, the term Dari in today's iran is refered to a langauge spoken by Zardoshtis, it is different from farsi in iran, afghanistan and CARs?
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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:41 PM

View PostSohrab, on 06 April 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

can i ask something qizilbash, the term Dari in today's iran is refered to a langauge spoken by Zardoshtis, it is different from farsi in iran, afghanistan and CARs?


Yes, it is different.
It is a language spoken in Kerman and Yazd.
We must remember that religion and ethnicity are distinct entities; my hypothesis is that Dari is the remnant of a local language in Kerman/Yazd. The only reason that zoroastrians persevered in that area is that it's very inaccessible
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
0

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