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Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:17 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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#1 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:51 AM

Dostan,

There are two things that i need your help with.
There are time constraints on both as i will be going back to Iran at the end of june.

1. My first objective is to raise awareness about the issue pertaining to persians in Afghanistan.

I plan to work at the grassroots level; that is, I plan to inform a certain number of people and thereby, if i am able to make a large enough impact, create something of a ripple effect.

The means: I have realized that i am not going to get much accomplished if i sit around in majlises and talk to friends and family members about these issues. This is the route i have taken thus far and it has failed miserably; even my own father is still fixated on Israel, Lebanon and Syria.
It has failed for two reasons: 1. I simply cant reach many people on my own 2. Anything that comes out of my 20-something year old, clean-shaven mouth is not going to carry much weight.

I therefore need an alternate route to get my point across.

I have stumbled upon the idea of handing out pamphlets to family friends and relatives.
I will start with a pamphlet that pertains to issues facing Tajiks in Afghanistan (ethnic friction, etc.)
Then perhaps in a few months i can disseminate a pamphlet pertaining to issues facing Tajiks in Uzbekistan (Uzbekization in Samarqand and Bokhara, etc.)
Finally, even later, I can hand out a pamphlet pertaining to issues facing Tajiks in Tajikistan (development and reassertion of national identity, etc.)

So, I am going to start with Afghanistan.
The pamphlet cant be too long because otherwise it wont be read.
I am thinking about distributing:
نقش ارد بزرگ و احمدشاه مسعود در تغییر نام افغانستان به خراسان

Now, I searched for this piece and i found it in text format both on this site and elsewhere
The issue is that i need it in PDF format.
All the PDF links appear to be defunct.
I would appreicate it if someone here could acquire the PDF version of this book.
I can then put the PDF copy on a flash drive, take it to Iran and have it printed and bound with a cover.



Also, if you feel that there is any other book that better highlights the issues facing afghanistani persians, please go ahead and suggest it.
I actually have only read parts of the book myself but i will read it thoroughly once i find the time.

In my preliminary assesment, it appears satisfactory for the purpose.

I had originally planned to discuss the other project with which i need help but I am running on very little sleep.
I suppose ill discuss it tommorow; Ill just say that it has something to do with Tajik wikipedia.

I hope there will be some activity in this thread within the next 24 hrs. The bystander effect shouldnt be a concern given the number of active members on this forum ;)
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#2 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:22 AM

Dorood,

unfortunately, I was unable to find the pdf for the book you wanted. For your pamphlet you can use some of Tajikam's persian articles

www.Tajikam.com/fa

cheers
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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Posted 17 May 2011 - 03:29 PM

View PostGul agha, on 17 May 2011 - 02:22 AM, said:

Dorood,

unfortunately, I was unable to find the pdf for the book you wanted. For your pamphlet you can use some of Tajikam's persian articles

www.Tajikam.com/fa

cheers


Thanks for the effort.

I had also found that most of the links are defunct.
Is it possible that Khurasani has the original PDF?
I suppose i can pm him about it.

The alternative would be to compile a pamphlet of my own using articles from Tajikam.
I think i will start doing that soon.

Has Pedram written any books that i could use?
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
0

#4 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:29 PM

Maybe Khurasani has the pdf since he posted the intro on Tajikam. However, Khurasani is in Afghanistan right now and is unable to help you at the moment.

There are many books, for example Parsi-setezi dar Afghanistan, Yaghmieh Duwum Mangali, Saqawi Duwum(anti-Tajik manifesto written by Pashtuns)...; Dr Rasul Rahin from Khawaran I think published a book on this subject last year.

Please check the pdf, you might need this book

Attached File(s)


Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

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#5 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 08:46 PM

View PostGul agha, on 17 May 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

Maybe Khurasani has the pdf since he posted the intro on Tajikam. However, Khurasani is in Afghanistan right now and is unable to help you at the moment.

There are many books, for example Parsi-setezi dar Afghanistan, Yaghmieh Duwum Mangali, Saqawi Duwum(anti-Tajik manifesto written by Pashtuns)...; Dr Rasul Rahin from Khawaran I think published a book on this subject last year.

Please check the pdf, you might need this book


Thanks for the share, I skimmed the pishgoftar and i appears relevant.

By the way, is there a way to get copies of "Parsi-Setezi"? Are there printed versions of the book available?
It would be better to purchase books of this sort because it would financially benefit the authors of such books and it would take care of the printing issue.

I was also thinking that I could perhaps go to Tehran University, Tarbiat Modares U., Shahid Beheshti U. and hand out selected excerpts from these books over the summer. I am sure i could find interested ears in the History, Political Sciences and Persian studies departments.

As for the issue i didnt get to last night.
Tajik wiki is very close to crossing the 10,000 article threshold.
its around 700 articles away.
I was wondering if we could all pledge to write 5-10 articles until we cross the threshold.
I took me only a few hours to get a basic grasp of Tajik cyrillic and so Sohrab and Parsi should also participate.
I will warn you that its tedious work, especially if you dont have a cyrillic keyboard.
But, please, lets just get over the threshold.

I honestly dont think anyone had been active on Tajik wiki over the past week and i am going on strike until i see other people writing some articles.
The mods for tajik wiki are, with all due respect, worthless

PORS would be awesome for this assignment but he hasnt visited the forum in some time.

PS. They cant just be one line articles. Trust me, i have tried that. lol.
They need to be substantial or they will be deleted.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#6 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:36 PM

http://www.facebook....p?id=1275126910

contact this man. He has written many articles and ''Books'' about Khorasan and Tajiks. He can surely support you much more than anyone, including me and Gul Agha. F.ex. the following is his work http://www.khorasanz...f/alalzad02.pdf
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 10:32 PM

thanks parsi,

The facebook link didnt work but the article link was absolutely fantastic.
I found his notion that Sistan is a region of Khorasan to be particularly interesting. I personally dont agree with him but its a viable argument

Here's a map of what i believe constitutes Khorasan:

I believe that Khorasan is neither entirely exclusively populated by eastern persians nor that it includes all eastern persian.
I have a "turk o tajik" notion of Khorasan; one that is largely derived from the Shahnameh

I made this just now :)
Posted Image

Frankly, the article you posted doesnt really meet my needs; its more of a history piece. Great read nonetheless.

I, myself, am not Khorasani.
My maternal grandfather is from Lorestan but he was in the army and so he would be continually transferred all over Iran. Both he and my mother tell me that the most civilized people they came across were Khorasanis-specifically, those from Neyshapur
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
0

#8 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 12:14 AM

Sistan was not part of Khorasan but at times many would include parts of Sistan in Khorasan. For example, Kandahar, Zabul and Helmand are part of Sistan but Pashtun tribes would include these regions in Greater Khorasan.

Khorasan Proper:

Posted Image
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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Posted 19 May 2011 - 01:29 AM

View PostGul agha, on 18 May 2011 - 07:14 PM, said:

Sistan was not part of Khorasan but at times many would include parts of Sistan in Khorasan. For example, Kandahar, Zabul and Helmand are part of Sistan but Pashtun tribes would include these regions in Greater Khorasan.

Khorasan Proper:

Posted Image


I see Khorasan as more of a cultural entity.

Perhaps there should be two conceptions of Khorasan: A political conception and a cultural conception.

The political conception would essentially constitute a Persian nation state but I believe the genuine cultural definition of Khorasan must include Uzbek and Turkmen areas.
The rought outline that I drew represents what i believe to be the cultural definition of Khorasan.
This is why i didnt include the Hazara regions of Afghanistan; the Hazara mountains were not cultural center in Khorasan. This is perhaps largely a product of the harsh geography and the inaccessibility of these areas.

The heart of Khorasan lies in its cities
The great cultural cities are Balkh, Tus, Neyshapur, Herat, Samarqand and Bokhara.

I dont include Ghazni because it was primarily turkish forward operating base for invasions of India-not a cultural center at the level of Balkh and Neyshapur
I also dont include Kandahar/Helmand etc both beacuse they arent cultural centers and because they are simply too far to the south to be part of Khorasan.

I see Sistan as a rather small region encompassing only the region around Lake Hamun (in both Iran and Afgahanistan)

Kandahar/Zabul and Helmand are interesting cases because I cant really categorize them. Classical persian ethnography divides the Eastern Middle East and Central Asia into Three Zones: Turan (The turkic regions of central asia), Iran-Zamin (Tajiks/Persians) and Hindustan (India and Pakistan). But it appears that Southern Afghanistan and even the Western Baluch areas of Pakistan dont fit into any of the three categories. Perhaps they were included under Sistan but, in my opinion, these areas are too far to the east to be part of Sistan. Its interesting to think about.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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Posted 19 May 2011 - 02:50 AM

Well, based on what I have read in the Avesta and Shahnama Kandahar, Helmand, Nimroz, Zabol... were part of Sakistan (Sistan) or Zabolistan.

I accept your analysis on Khorasan except one part. Ghazni was indeed a cultural center. Ghazni until the Ghorid invasion was the political and cultural center of Eastern Iran and hosted most Persian poets of its time and even till today Ghazna is a cultural center after Balkh and Herat. The Persian capitals (Tehran, Kabul and Dushanbe) are the least cultured in Greater Iran.

By the way, I should note that like Sistan, Khwarazm was also independent from Khorasan so we cannot include Khiva and regions around the Ural.
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 02:57 AM

Ferdowsi mentions almost all major cities of modern Afghanistan in the following couplets:
هر آن شهر کز مرز ایران نهی/ بگو تا کنم آن ز ترکان تهی
از ایران به کوه اندر آید نخست/ در غرچگان از بر بوم بُست
دگر طالقان شهر تا فاریاب/ همیدون در بلخ تا اندرآب
دگر پنجهیر و در بامیان/ سر مرز ایران و جای کیان
دگر گوزگانان فرخنده جای/ نهادست نامش جهان کدخدای
دگر مولیان تا در بدخشان/ همین است از این پادشاهی نشان
فروتر دگر دشت آموی و زم/ که با شهر ختلان برآید برم
چو شگنان و ترمذ و ویسه گرد/ بخارا و شهری که هستش به گرد
همیدون برو تا در سغد نیز/ نجوید کسی پادشاهی به چیز
وزان سو که شد رستم گردسوز/ سپارم به او کشور نیمروز
ز کوه و ز هامون بخوانم سپاه/ سوی باختر برگشایم راه
بپردازم این در هندوان/ نداریم تاریک از این پس روان
ز کشمیر و ز کابل و قندهار / شما را بود آنهمه زین شمار
و زان سو که لهراسب است جنگجوی/ الانان و غَر در سپارم بدوی

Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 02:58 AM

I completely forgot about the topic. I think the best thing to do is to gather articles and publish them. I will help you pick the most scholarly and analytical ones from Tajikam, Khawaran,Tajikmedia, Jawedan....
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:05 AM

I dont really use the Avesta in my analysis and i have actually consciously avoided reading it. I have avoided it both because it isnt Persian and because its a pagan religious work; my interest is in Khorasani Islamic culture.

Shahnameh is a Khorasani Islamic work and I have primarily formed my conception of Khorasan around the Shahnameh.
I suppose you are right about Ghazni and, on second thought, it did produce the likes of Hakim Sanai ; although you must also admit that it started as a military garrison.

I am not sure i agree with your assessment of Sistan but I must admit that i dont know much about Sistan. This is partly because Sistan didnt really produce very many notable individuals. Actually, only the Saffarids come to mind at the this point and they were form around the Hamun.
You are right about Khwarazm but I tend to view Khwarazm (garganj in particular) as very similar to Khorasan in many ways. Perhaps we can see Khwarazm as a subregion of Khorasan. It doesnt really matter because the garganj that I love died centuries ago; it was crushed under the hooves of the Mongols.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#14 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:12 AM

View PostGul agha, on 18 May 2011 - 09:58 PM, said:

I completely forgot about the topic. I think the best thing to do is to gather articles and publish them. I will help you pick the most scholarly and analytical ones from Tajikam, Khawaran,Tajikmedia, Jawedan....


Tashakor

I started looking for articles at Tajikam.com/fa but then i saw the "Shaer o Adab" section and i got distracted for half an hour :D
I will compile a list of articles and ill post them here. We can then select the most appropriate ones.

The key is to be brief yet provocative.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
0

#15 User is offline   قزلباش Icon

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:45 AM

http://tajikam.com/f...id=440&Itemid=1
http://tajikam.com/f...id=316&Itemid=1
http://tajikam.com/f...id=236&Itemid=1
http://tajikam.com/f...&id=80&Itemid=1
http://tajikam.com/f...&id=55&Itemid=1
http://tajikam.com/f...&id=42&Itemid=1

I went through all the articles and these are the ones that appeared the most relevant.
Ali, what do you think?
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
0

#16 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:18 AM

Qizilbash Gerami,

Ghazni, Gardez, Jalalabad, Hilmand (formerly known as Zamindawar and Sistan/Sijistan), Kandahar were part of the Iranian civilisation. All these regions were once dominated by Tajiks. For 100 years ago, Ghazni was a Tajik dominated province but many left the region when Kuchi Pashtuns entered and brought many troubles to the owner of the province. That´s also a reason why the city self is still dominated by Tajiks. Kandahar, once a center of Ismaeli-Shia Tajiks and mainly populated by Tajiks. But the struggles between Safavids and Mughals depopulated the region many times and later Pashtuns settled there next to the ruins. Under Ahmad Khan Abdali, a new cty was build 20km to the north and thus became a Pashtun province and city. The Bamian region lost his name in the middle-age but it had a very important role before the advent of Islam. Even Sassanians celebrated the Buddha-Statues as an image of Rostam and his family. The fact is, Khorasan did not know officially any border. Whereever Persian-speakers lived the region was part of Khorasan, Sistan includuded. Even some parts of Baluchistan, such as the region of Quetta was sometimes part of Khorasan because of the Persian and Qizilbash presence there. The Dawari and Dara people are such people who live still in Quetta and are native Persian-speakers.

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 08:21 AM

View PostParsistani, on 19 May 2011 - 02:18 AM, said:

Qizilbash Gerami,

Ghazni, Gardez, Jalalabad, Hilmand (formerly known as Zamindawar and Sistan/Sijistan), Kandahar were part of the Iranian civilisation. All these regions were once dominated by Tajiks. For 100 years ago, Ghazni was a Tajik dominated province but many left the region when Kuchi Pashtuns entered and brought many troubles to the owner of the province. That´s also a reason why the city self is still dominated by Tajiks. Kandahar, once a center of Ismaeli-Shia Tajiks and mainly populated by Tajiks. But the struggles between Safavids and Mughals depopulated the region many times and later Pashtuns settled there next to the ruins. Under Ahmad Khan Abdali, a new cty was build 20km to the north and thus became a Pashtun province and city. The Bamian region lost his name in the middle-age but it had a very important role before the advent of Islam. Even Sassanians celebrated the Buddha-Statues as an image of Rostam and his family. The fact is, Khorasan did not know officially any border. Whereever Persian-speakers lived the region was part of Khorasan, Sistan includuded. Even some parts of Baluchistan, such as the region of Quetta was sometimes part of Khorasan because of the Persian and Qizilbash presence there. The Dawari and Dara people are such people who live still in Quetta and are native Persian-speakers.

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I respect your opinion and there might have been Tajik communities in southern Afghanistan and Baluchistan but I can never see places like Quetta as a part of Khorasan.
I also don't think there was ever a time when these areas where cultural centers.

Perhaps I am not right to stereotype these areas based on my understanding of the Iranian Baloch but I don't think any such stereotype would really be very far from the truth.
You are correct that there is a Qizilbash community in places like Kandahar but they are settlers, not natives.
Regardless of what you believe the ethnic makeup was in the past, the fact of the matter is that these areas
are today populated by ethnically and culturally alien peoples.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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#18 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 08:49 AM

I was talking abt pre-Nadir times. Not after Ahmad Shah Abdali or Nadir´s era. Even during Ahmad Shah Abdali´s era Kandahar was settled by new Tajik settlers from Kabul. But Pashtun became majority through immigrations from Pakistan. Quetta was never a cultural part of Khorasan but sometimes it was part of Khorasan ... when Tajiks, Iranians or anyother one took their culture and identity there (Dehwari, Darwazi, Dara ...plus Hazaras). Modern Kandahar is a city of settlers. Neither Pashtuns are native in this city nor Tajiks or Uzbeks. However, this is why we do not more conclude Kandahar as part of Khorasan. Modern Kandahar was build some 200 years ago under the name Ahmadshahi. The Qizilbash issue is a different issue not related with the real Tajik population of the region or with the Roh/Arokha people who are descandants of ancient Arachosiens..the greec term for ancient ''Kandahar''.
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Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:36 PM

View PostParsistani, on 19 May 2011 - 03:49 AM, said:

I was talking abt pre-Nadir times. Not after Ahmad Shah Abdali or Nadir´s era. Even during Ahmad Shah Abdali´s era Kandahar was settled by new Tajik settlers from Kabul. But Pashtun became majority through immigrations from Pakistan. Quetta was never a cultural part of Khorasan but sometimes it was part of Khorasan ... when Tajiks, Iranians or anyother one took their culture and identity there (Dehwari, Darwazi, Dara ...plus Hazaras). Modern Kandahar is a city of settlers. Neither Pashtuns are native in this city nor Tajiks or Uzbeks. However, this is why we do not more conclude Kandahar as part of Khorasan. Modern Kandahar was build some 200 years ago under the name Ahmadshahi. The Qizilbash issue is a different issue not related with the real Tajik population of the region or with the Roh/Arokha people who are descandants of ancient Arachosiens..the greec term for ancient ''Kandahar''.


Ok baradar, we can agree to disagree
All I am saying is that we should start by focusing on the essential cities of Khorasan.
We can't ignore the plight of a contemporary Tajik majority in cultural cities like Samarqand and Bokhara and pursue obscure historical links with regions of Baluchistan and southern Afghanistan.

Even if we assume that these areas had a Persian majority at some point in history, what do you propose that we do with the population that currently lives there?
You should love a place for it's people; not the land they live on.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:04 PM

Well, those regions are today gone to ribalist immigrants. That´s why we can´t claim on Kandahar or entire Zamindawar (Hilmand) and and thus are not part of a new and modern Khorasan (see the current map I created and the last map). We have to exchange Qizilbashs from southern Afghanistan with Pashtuns from northern Afghanistan. We should chose Pashtuns who live in regions where they can be a threat to us, such as Chahar Dareh in Kunduz. Replacing Pashtuns from their and settling Qizilbashs from south. The lands the Qizilbashs have in the south either they sell to Pashtun nomads or they destroy it. What it had or was it does not count, except for some historical regions where I would even support the power of weapons. The current situation like Kandahar make us giving up this region and in the sake of Tajiks, our ancestors and our freedom we will accept that. Once, I was even against that. But one need to see everything through an objective umbrella and understand or accept the current situation.
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