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#1 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 06:43 AM

What do Afghans think about Nader Shah ? I mean people like Rika Khana ...

What do real Tajiks of Afghanistan think about Nader Shah ? I mean people like Gul Agha, Rustam, and Khurasani ?

What do people of Tajikistan think about Nader Shah ? (I guess they never heard of him :( )
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 07:41 AM

Dear Doolooli,

There is a separate thread about Nadir Shah and you can see people's reactions about him.
if you click on this link you can see it:
http://tajikam.com/f...read.php?t=1803
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:02 AM

nader ghadar = nader shah ?
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:06 AM

[quote=doodooli;5431]nader ghadar = nader shah ?[/quote]

yes,he is the same person. because he was doing alot of bad things thats why people call him Ghadar. this title was given to him by the non-pushtoons.
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:15 AM

Nader Shah is a hero in Iran. He saved Iran from Afghans, Russians, Ottomans, and Uzbeks. He defeated them all and drove them out of the country. And the stupid Afghans' ass was kicked so hard they never recovered ... and that's why you are so upset. Nader Shah's statue is in Mashhad. Ask Rooyintan what he thinks about Nader Shah. (Who came after him, Durrani Afghan savage, is not Nader)
[quote=Rika Khana;5432]yes,he is the same person. because he was doing alot of bad things thats why people call him Ghadar. this title was given to him by the non-pushtoons.[/quote]
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:25 AM

[quote=doodooli;5434]Nader Shah is a hero in Iran. He saved Iran from Afghans, Russians, Ottomans, and Uzbeks. He defeated them all and drove them out of the country. And the stupid Afghans' ass was kicked so hard they never recovered ... and that's why you are so upset. Nader Shah's statue is in Mashhad. Ask Rooyintan what he thinks about Nader Shah. (Who came after him, Durrani Afghan savage, is not Nader)[/quote]

Dear doodooli,

When you say Nadir Shah, you should have given his full name, his full name is Nadir Shah Afshar. I was talking about Nadir Shah Pushtoon, not Nadir Shah Afshar-e-Turkmen.
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:37 AM

OK. Nadir Shah Afshar was not really Turkmen, maybe Afshar were known as Turkmen but if you look at his portraits he has a full beard and he does not look Turkmen at all ... he looks quite mainstream Iranian / Tajik. Nadir Shah has been compared to Napoleon (no bullshit) by military strategists of the highest order ...


Nader Shah was the founder of the Afsharid Dynasty of Persia, lasting from 1736 to 1747. During this time, this "second Alexander" returned Persia to its Sassanid-era borders. After pushing the anti-Safavid Afghan invaders out of Persia, Nader invaded Afghanistan and took the cities of Kabul, Kandahar, and Lahore. In the western theater, Nader Shah gained many cities from Ottoman Mesopotamia, including Najaf, Karbala, and Basra. However, he was stopped at the walls of Baghdad. In the Eastern Theater, Nader Shah defeated the Mughals decisively at the Battle of Karnal. From here, he continued on into Delhi, where he indirectly killed 30,000 civilians and took many crown jewels, including the Peacock Throne (valued at $1 billion dollars now) and two 180+ carat diamonds.

Nader Shah also conquered Oman and Bahrain. He founded the modern Persian Navy.

Nader rose to power during a period of anarchy in Persia after a rebellion by Afghans had overthrown the weak Shah Soltan Hossein and both the Ottomans and the Russians had seized Persian territory for themselves. Nader reunited the Persian realm and removed the invaders. He became so powerful that he decided to depose the last members of the Safavid dynasty, which had ruled Persia for over 200 years, and become shah himself in 1736. His campaigns created a great Iranian Empire that briefly encompassed what is now Iran, Afghanistan, northern India, and parts of Central Asia,

Nader chose not to march directly on Isfahan. First, in May 1729, he defeated the Abdali Afghans near Herat. Many of the Abdali Afghans subsequently joined his army. The new Ghilzai Afghan shah, Ashraf, decided to move against Nader but in September 1729, Nader defeated him at the Battle of Damghan and again, decisively, in November at Murchakhor. Ashraf fled and Nader finally entered Isfahan, handing it over to Tahmasp in December. The citizens' rejoicing was cut short when Nader plundered them to pay his army. Tahmasp made Nader governor over many eastern provinces, including his native Khorasan and married him to his sister. Nader pursued and defeated Ashraf, who was murdered by his own followers.[12] In 1738 Nader Shah besieged and destroyed Kandahar. This was the ultimate defeat of any remaining Afghan forces. Nader Shah built a new city near Kandahar, which he named Naderabad.[1]

In the spring of 1730, Nader attacked the Ottomans and regained most of the territory lost during the recent chaos. At the same time, the Abdali Afghans rebelled and besieged Mashhad, forcing Nader to suspend his campaign and save his brother, Ebrahim. It took Nader fourteen months to defeat the Abdali Afghans.

n 1738, Nader Shah conquered Kandahar, the last outpost of the Ghilzai Afghans. His thoughts now turned to Mughal India to the south. This once powerful Muslim state was falling apart as the nobles became increasingly disobedient and the Hindu Marathas made inroads on its territory from the south-west. Its ruler Mohammed Shah was powerless to reverse this disintegration. Nader used the pretext of his Afghan enemies taking refuge in India to cross the border and capture Kabul, Ghazni and Lahore. He then advanced deeper into India crossing the river Indus before the end of year. He was leading the war with his advising Minister, Mirza Mehdi Khan Astarabadi.[16] He defeated the Mughal army at the huge Battle of Karnal in February, 1739. After this victory, Nader captured Mohammad Shah and entered with him into Delhi.
Nader Shahboth: n?d?r sh, 16881747, shah of Iran (173647), sometimes considered the last of the great Asian conquerors. He was a member of the Afshar tribe. Although taken prisoner by the Uzbeks while he was still a child, he escaped and entered the service of the governor of Khorasan. There he earned a reputation for bravery. He then entered the service of Tahmasp, the son of Shah Sultan Husayn, who was asserting his claims against the Afghans under Mahmud, who had usurped the Persian throne. Nadir took the name Tahmasp Kuli Khan [Tahmasp's slave] and proceeded to win a series of battles against the Afghans. Decisively beaten, they retired to Kandahar, and Tahmasp was restored to the rule over Iran. Nadir, however, was the powerful figure of the realm. He warred against the Turks successfully, and when the shah turned victory to disaster by a conciliatory peace, Nadir in 1732 deposed him. Tahmasp's infant son Abbas III was placed on the throne with Nadir as regent. The conquests continued, and the western boundary was restored to what it had been before the Afghan invasions. In 1736 Nadir deposed Abbas and himself became shah, thus ending the rule of the Safavid dynasty. He attempted to weld Iran and the Ottoman Empire by unifying the Shiites and Sunnis. This led to much dissatisfaction in Shiite Iran, and the plan was discarded. In 173839 Nadir invaded Mughal India. He was brilliantly successful, taking and sacking Delhi and Lahore and carrying off vast treasure, including the Koh-i-noor diamond and the Peacock Throne. He also continued his conquests in other directions. Bukhara was subdued, and the limits of Iran were extended to the greatest that they had been since the days of the Sassanids. War with the Turks occupied his attention from 1743 to 1746. Nadir's later years were darkened by a turn toward tyranny, suspicion, and greed. So much did he fear opposition that he had his own son blinded. In 1747, during a campaign against rebellious Kurds, Nadir Shah was assassinated by officers of his own guard. Although the dynasty he founded, the Afshar dynasty (173649), was short-lived, Nadir is generally regarded as one of the greatest of all rulers of Persia.
[edit]
[quote=Rika Khana;5438]Dear doodooli,

When you say Nadir Shah, you should have given his full name, his full name is Nadir Shah Afshar. I was talking about Nadir Shah Pushtoon, not Nadir Shah Afshar-e-Turkmen.[/quote]
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 09:06 AM

I know only that he was one of the shahs of Iran.
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Posted 04 February 2008 - 09:22 AM

[quote=doodooli;5441]OK. Nadir Shah Afshar was not really Turkmen, maybe Afshar were known as Turkmen but if you look at his portraits he has a full beard and he does not look Turkmen at all ... he looks quite mainstream Iranian / Tajik. Nadir Shah has been compared to Napoleon (no bullshit) by military strategists of the highest order ...


Nader Shah was the founder of the Afsharid Dynasty of Persia, lasting from 1736 to 1747. During this time, this "second Alexander" returned Persia to its Sassanid-era borders. After pushing the anti-Safavid Afghan invaders out of Persia, Nader invaded Afghanistan and took the cities of Kabul, Kandahar, and Lahore. In the western theater, Nader Shah gained many cities from Ottoman Mesopotamia, including Najaf, Karbala, and Basra. However, he was stopped at the walls of Baghdad. In the Eastern Theater, Nader Shah defeated the Mughals decisively at the Battle of Karnal. From here, he continued on into Delhi, where he indirectly killed 30,000 civilians and took many crown jewels, including the Peacock Throne (valued at $1 billion dollars now) and two 180+ carat diamonds.

Nader Shah also conquered Oman and Bahrain. He founded the modern Persian Navy.

Nader rose to power during a period of anarchy in Persia after a rebellion by Afghans had overthrown the weak Shah Soltan Hossein and both the Ottomans and the Russians had seized Persian territory for themselves. Nader reunited the Persian realm and removed the invaders. He became so powerful that he decided to depose the last members of the Safavid dynasty, which had ruled Persia for over 200 years, and become shah himself in 1736. His campaigns created a great Iranian Empire that briefly encompassed what is now Iran, Afghanistan, northern India, and parts of Central Asia,

Nader chose not to march directly on Isfahan. First, in May 1729, he defeated the Abdali Afghans near Herat. Many of the Abdali Afghans subsequently joined his army. The new Ghilzai Afghan shah, Ashraf, decided to move against Nader but in September 1729, Nader defeated him at the Battle of Damghan and again, decisively, in November at Murchakhor. Ashraf fled and Nader finally entered Isfahan, handing it over to Tahmasp in December. The citizens' rejoicing was cut short when Nader plundered them to pay his army. Tahmasp made Nader governor over many eastern provinces, including his native Khorasan and married him to his sister. Nader pursued and defeated Ashraf, who was murdered by his own followers.[12] In 1738 Nader Shah besieged and destroyed Kandahar. This was the ultimate defeat of any remaining Afghan forces. Nader Shah built a new city near Kandahar, which he named Naderabad.[1]

In the spring of 1730, Nader attacked the Ottomans and regained most of the territory lost during the recent chaos. At the same time, the Abdali Afghans rebelled and besieged Mashhad, forcing Nader to suspend his campaign and save his brother, Ebrahim. It took Nader fourteen months to defeat the Abdali Afghans.

n 1738, Nader Shah conquered Kandahar, the last outpost of the Ghilzai Afghans. His thoughts now turned to Mughal India to the south. This once powerful Muslim state was falling apart as the nobles became increasingly disobedient and the Hindu Marathas made inroads on its territory from the south-west. Its ruler Mohammed Shah was powerless to reverse this disintegration. Nader used the pretext of his Afghan enemies taking refuge in India to cross the border and capture Kabul, Ghazni and Lahore. He then advanced deeper into India crossing the river Indus before the end of year. He was leading the war with his advising Minister, Mirza Mehdi Khan Astarabadi.[16] He defeated the Mughal army at the huge Battle of Karnal in February, 1739. After this victory, Nader captured Mohammad Shah and entered with him into Delhi.
Nader Shahboth: n?d?r sh, 16881747, shah of Iran (173647), sometimes considered the last of the great Asian conquerors. He was a member of the Afshar tribe. Although taken prisoner by the Uzbeks while he was still a child, he escaped and entered the service of the governor of Khorasan. There he earned a reputation for bravery. He then entered the service of Tahmasp, the son of Shah Sultan Husayn, who was asserting his claims against the Afghans under Mahmud, who had usurped the Persian throne. Nadir took the name Tahmasp Kuli Khan [Tahmasp's slave] and proceeded to win a series of battles against the Afghans. Decisively beaten, they retired to Kandahar, and Tahmasp was restored to the rule over Iran. Nadir, however, was the powerful figure of the realm. He warred against the Turks successfully, and when the shah turned victory to disaster by a conciliatory peace, Nadir in 1732 deposed him. Tahmasp's infant son Abbas III was placed on the throne with Nadir as regent. The conquests continued, and the western boundary was restored to what it had been before the Afghan invasions. In 1736 Nadir deposed Abbas and himself became shah, thus ending the rule of the Safavid dynasty. He attempted to weld Iran and the Ottoman Empire by unifying the Shiites and Sunnis. This led to much dissatisfaction in Shiite Iran, and the plan was discarded. In 173839 Nadir invaded Mughal India. He was brilliantly successful, taking and sacking Delhi and Lahore and carrying off vast treasure, including the Koh-i-noor diamond and the Peacock Throne. He also continued his conquests in other directions. Bukhara was subdued, and the limits of Iran were extended to the greatest that they had been since the days of the Sassanids. War with the Turks occupied his attention from 1743 to 1746. Nadir's later years were darkened by a turn toward tyranny, suspicion, and greed. So much did he fear opposition that he had his own son blinded. In 1747, during a campaign against rebellious Kurds, Nadir Shah was assassinated by officers of his own guard. Although the dynasty he founded, the Afshar dynasty (173649), was short-lived, Nadir is generally regarded as one of the greatest of all rulers of Persia.
[edit][/quote]

Well, there is no doubt he was great military guy. but regarding his ethnicity i searched on the interent and saw the same information about afsharis all over: The Afshar tribes of Iran are two distinct Turkic-speaking ethnic groups. The larger group is concentrated in the north of the country, and the smaller in the south. The Turkic dialect spoken by the Afshar of the north is closely related to the Azeri language, while the dialect spoken by the southern Afshar is more closely related to the Qashqai language. and if you look at some tajiks(minority) in central asia they look like the uzbeks, but they are still calling themselves tajiks. anyways, since i dont know much about him it will be difficult for me to make any discusion.

his biggest mistake was endorsing A.Shah Abdali and giving him power. in general i think he was a good man.
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#10 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 09:23 AM

[quote=doodooli;5441]OK. Nadir Shah Afshar was not really Turkmen, maybe Afshar were known as Turkmen but if you look at his portraits he has a full beard and he does not look Turkmen at all ... he looks quite mainstream Iranian / Tajik. Nadir Shah has been compared to Napoleon (no bullshit) by military strategists of the highest order ...


Nader Shah was the founder of the Afsharid Dynasty of Persia, lasting from 1736 to 1747. During this time, this "second Alexander" returned Persia to its Sassanid-era borders. After pushing the anti-Safavid Afghan invaders out of Persia, Nader invaded Afghanistan and took the cities of Kabul, Kandahar, and Lahore. In the western theater, Nader Shah gained many cities from Ottoman Mesopotamia, including Najaf, Karbala, and Basra. However, he was stopped at the walls of Baghdad. In the Eastern Theater, Nader Shah defeated the Mughals decisively at the Battle of Karnal. From here, he continued on into Delhi, where he indirectly killed 30,000 civilians and took many crown jewels, including the Peacock Throne (valued at $1 billion dollars now) and two 180+ carat diamonds.

Nader Shah also conquered Oman and Bahrain. He founded the modern Persian Navy.

Nader rose to power during a period of anarchy in Persia after a rebellion by Afghans had overthrown the weak Shah Soltan Hossein and both the Ottomans and the Russians had seized Persian territory for themselves. Nader reunited the Persian realm and removed the invaders. He became so powerful that he decided to depose the last members of the Safavid dynasty, which had ruled Persia for over 200 years, and become shah himself in 1736. His campaigns created a great Iranian Empire that briefly encompassed what is now Iran, Afghanistan, northern India, and parts of Central Asia,

Nader chose not to march directly on Isfahan. First, in May 1729, he defeated the Abdali Afghans near Herat. Many of the Abdali Afghans subsequently joined his army. The new Ghilzai Afghan shah, Ashraf, decided to move against Nader but in September 1729, Nader defeated him at the Battle of Damghan and again, decisively, in November at Murchakhor. Ashraf fled and Nader finally entered Isfahan, handing it over to Tahmasp in December. The citizens' rejoicing was cut short when Nader plundered them to pay his army. Tahmasp made Nader governor over many eastern provinces, including his native Khorasan and married him to his sister. Nader pursued and defeated Ashraf, who was murdered by his own followers.[12] In 1738 Nader Shah besieged and destroyed Kandahar. This was the ultimate defeat of any remaining Afghan forces. Nader Shah built a new city near Kandahar, which he named Naderabad.[1]

In the spring of 1730, Nader attacked the Ottomans and regained most of the territory lost during the recent chaos. At the same time, the Abdali Afghans rebelled and besieged Mashhad, forcing Nader to suspend his campaign and save his brother, Ebrahim. It took Nader fourteen months to defeat the Abdali Afghans.

n 1738, Nader Shah conquered Kandahar, the last outpost of the Ghilzai Afghans. His thoughts now turned to Mughal India to the south. This once powerful Muslim state was falling apart as the nobles became increasingly disobedient and the Hindu Marathas made inroads on its territory from the south-west. Its ruler Mohammed Shah was powerless to reverse this disintegration. Nader used the pretext of his Afghan enemies taking refuge in India to cross the border and capture Kabul, Ghazni and Lahore. He then advanced deeper into India crossing the river Indus before the end of year. He was leading the war with his advising Minister, Mirza Mehdi Khan Astarabadi.[16] He defeated the Mughal army at the huge Battle of Karnal in February, 1739. After this victory, Nader captured Mohammad Shah and entered with him into Delhi.
Nader Shahboth: n?d?r sh, 16881747, shah of Iran (173647), sometimes considered the last of the great Asian conquerors. He was a member of the Afshar tribe. Although taken prisoner by the Uzbeks while he was still a child, he escaped and entered the service of the governor of Khorasan. There he earned a reputation for bravery. He then entered the service of Tahmasp, the son of Shah Sultan Husayn, who was asserting his claims against the Afghans under Mahmud, who had usurped the Persian throne. Nadir took the name Tahmasp Kuli Khan [Tahmasp's slave] and proceeded to win a series of battles against the Afghans. Decisively beaten, they retired to Kandahar, and Tahmasp was restored to the rule over Iran. Nadir, however, was the powerful figure of the realm. He warred against the Turks successfully, and when the shah turned victory to disaster by a conciliatory peace, Nadir in 1732 deposed him. Tahmasp's infant son Abbas III was placed on the throne with Nadir as regent. The conquests continued, and the western boundary was restored to what it had been before the Afghan invasions. In 1736 Nadir deposed Abbas and himself became shah, thus ending the rule of the Safavid dynasty. He attempted to weld Iran and the Ottoman Empire by unifying the Shiites and Sunnis. This led to much dissatisfaction in Shiite Iran, and the plan was discarded. In 173839 Nadir invaded Mughal India. He was brilliantly successful, taking and sacking Delhi and Lahore and carrying off vast treasure, including the Koh-i-noor diamond and the Peacock Throne. He also continued his conquests in other directions. Bukhara was subdued, and the limits of Iran were extended to the greatest that they had been since the days of the Sassanids. War with the Turks occupied his attention from 1743 to 1746. Nadir's later years were darkened by a turn toward tyranny, suspicion, and greed. So much did he fear opposition that he had his own son blinded. In 1747, during a campaign against rebellious Kurds, Nadir Shah was assassinated by officers of his own guard. Although the dynasty he founded, the Afshar dynasty (173649), was short-lived, Nadir is generally regarded as one of the greatest of all rulers of Persia.
[edit][/quote]

Well, there is no doubt he was great military guy. but regarding his ethnicity i searched on the interent and saw the same information about afsharis all over: The Afshar tribes of Iran are two distinct Turkic-speaking ethnic groups. The larger group is concentrated in the north of the country, and the smaller in the south. The Turkic dialect spoken by the Afshar of the north is closely related to the Azeri language, while the dialect spoken by the southern Afshar is more closely related to the Qashqai language.

and if you look at some tajiks(minority) in central asia they look like the uzbeks, but they are still calling themselves tajiks. anyways, since i dont know much about him it will be difficult for me to make any discusion.

his biggest mistake was endorsing A.Shah Abdali and giving him power. in general i think he was a good man.
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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:34 AM

Being ethnically classified as Turk does not make one less Iranian. So many Tehranis - maybe up to half - came from Azarbaijan part of Iran. Also, both Afshar and Qashqai groups, although technically Turk, are actually Persianized and very patriotic (and mostly Persian speaking nowadays).

I think we should be as inclusive as possible, include Hazaras as our own even though they be predominantly Mongol ethnically, and also include Turkish speaking people who strongly identify with Iran, such as Azeris, as our own. Similarly with Aimaq and Uzbeks of Afghanistan who would prefer a Persian identity.

(Many Tajiks, especially in Tajikestan and Uzbekistan, are ethnically Turk or mixed, but they still identify as Tajiks, and we should respect them and include them, instead of pointing the finger at them because they look more Asian or even Chinese as some people say).
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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:35 AM

Nader Afshar was a Kurdish orghan who grew up in the Afshar Tribe. he was an Iranian not a Turk.
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Posted 05 February 2008 - 05:11 AM

You must be right. My grandfather told me the same thing :) And I could tell you more but it is Afshar Naderi secret :D
[quote=Gul agha;5468]Nader Afshar was a Kurdish orghan who grew up in the Afshar Tribe. he was an Iranian not a Turk.[/quote]
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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:43 AM

[quote=Gul agha;5468]Nader Afshar was a Kurdish orghan who grew up in the Afshar Tribe. he was an Iranian not a Turk.[/quote]

I consider the kurds the closet ethnic group to the persians.
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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:51 AM

[quote=doodooli;5465]

I think we should be as inclusive as possible, include Hazaras as our own even though they be predominantly Mongol ethnically, and also include Turkish speaking people who strongly identify with Iran, such as Azeris, as our own. Similarly with Aimaq and Uzbeks of Afghanistan who would prefer a Persian identity.

(Many Tajiks, especially in Tajikestan and Uzbekistan, are ethnically Turk or mixed, but they still identify as Tajiks, and we should respect them and include them, instead of pointing the finger at them because they look more Asian or even Chinese as some people say).[/quote]

i have always stressed the importance of our alliance with the Hazaras, it is very important for both of us to be true friends, we will lose against the pushtoons if we are divided. I think the Aimaqs consider themselves Tajiks(dont have concrete evidence). Although we have got relatively good relatoinships with the Uzbeks, but they dont identify themeselves as persians, still, it shouldnt be a problem for us.

There are some intermarriages between Pushtoons and Tajiks ,and ,Tajiks and Uzbeks, first of all this is not a general case, perhaps less than 10%, secondly even if there is intermarriages between differennt ethnic groups and if someone calls himself a tajik, then he is a tajik.
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#16 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 08:19 PM

The aimaqs are in two tribes turks/mongols and in two other groups ethnically Tajiks. Not all of them are of eastern asian origine.
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#17 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 05:37 AM

[QUOTE=doodooli;5427]What do Afghans think about Nader Shah ? I mean people like Rika Khana ...

What do real Tajiks of Afghanistan think about Nader Shah ? I mean people like Gul Agha, Rustam, and Khurasani ?

What do people of Tajikistan think about Nader Shah ? (I guess they never heard of him :( )[/QUOTE]
Here you had a little mistake, Doodooli. Nader Shah is well known among Tajiks of Tajikistan as well, since Manghits of Bukhara were his vassals before they turned their back on Afshars after Nader's death in 1747 and took over the Bukhara Emirate. For seven years Bukhara was again back in the embrace of the Greater Iran thanks to Nader.
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#18 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 05:49 AM

[quote=doodooli;5465]Being ethnically classified as Turk does not make one less Iranian. So many Tehranis - maybe up to half - came from Azarbaijan part of Iran. Also, both Afshar and Qashqai groups, although technically Turk, are actually Persianized and very patriotic (and mostly Persian speaking nowadays).

I think we should be as inclusive as possible, include Hazaras as our own even though they be predominantly Mongol ethnically, and also include Turkish speaking people who strongly identify with Iran, such as Azeris, as our own. Similarly with Aimaq and Uzbeks of Afghanistan who would prefer a Persian identity.

(Many Tajiks, especially in Tajikestan and Uzbekistan, are ethnically Turk or mixed, but they still identify as Tajiks, and we should respect them and include them, instead of pointing the finger at them because they look more Asian or even Chinese as some people say).[/quote]
It seems I've come to disagree with you again, Doodooli. You can never claim that many Tajiks of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are ethnically Turk, cuz they are not. In fact there is no Tajik who could be identified as ethnically Turk. And please refrain from repeating it again. And even most of Uzbeks can never get a purely Turkic DNA test, since most of them are discerned from other Turko-Mongol tribes. They are of Soghdian and Bactrian (Iranian) ancestry too, hence, different from Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs. I'm sure you are aware that before the Turko-Mongol occupation of Central Asia the region was populated solely by Iranian tribes. Have they evaporated? No, of course. Their offspring are still living under different names and some of them are now Uzbek or Turkmen. Barbad Marvazi was born in Merv (Mary). Some of his great-great-grandchildren must be still living in or around Merv with a different national identity: Turkmen (tork-manand).

As for Azeris, they are almost purely Iranian and ethnically have nothing to do with Turks.

Thus, it's better to know what's ours and what's not. Don't be quick in giving away Iranian heritage. And remember, nobody's waiting for your favour in Tajikistan to be recognized Persian by you or not. It's a well-known fact that mountains of Tajikistan could preserve the Iranian blood better than anywhere else. Yet, blood is not the most important thing, is it? Brain is.

Cheers mate.
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#19 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 06:03 AM

I have to agree with Darius on this one.

# ''... The first carriers of the R1a1 haplotype are believed to have been peoples living about 15,000 years ago[3] confined by an area within the Ukrainian LGM refuge. The gene spread by a nomadic lifestyle and proliferated on Eurasian steppes. Current theories point to the gene being tied to speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language in the Kurgan scenario, spreading the gene further to Asia and most of Europe. ... In Asia, high R1a1 frequencies are detected in populations of Ishkashimi (68%) and Tajiks (64%) ... In Europe, the highest frequencies are found in Central and Eastern Europe. Today it is found at its highest levels in Tajiks (64%), Kyrgyz (63%), Poland and Hungary (56%60%), Ukraine (44-54%[8] depending of the source), and Russia, where one out of two men has this haplogroup. In Hungary contradicting frequencies are reported 60% or 20%. Relatively high frequencies are also found among the ethnic Sorbs (63%) in Eastern Germany and in Scandinavia[1] (the largest being 23% in Iceland). ...[/i]

Posted Image

PE = Persian; PT = Pathan (Pashtun)

SH = Tajiks(dushanbe,khujand..etc)

KL= Pamiri Tajiks,pashaiis and Kohistanis
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#20 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 08:13 AM

But interestingly the chart for SH shows more percentage of East Asian genes in tajikistan than turkmenistan (KT). How do you explain this, other than by saying that theres is Turkic mixture ?
[quote=Gul agha;5591]I have to agree with Darius on this one.

# ''... The first carriers of the R1a1 haplotype are believed to have been peoples living about 15,000 years ago[3] confined by an area within the Ukrainian LGM refuge. The gene spread by a nomadic lifestyle and proliferated on Eurasian steppes. Current theories point to the gene being tied to speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language in the Kurgan scenario, spreading the gene further to Asia and most of Europe. ... In Asia, high R1a1 frequencies are detected in populations of Ishkashimi (68%) and Tajiks (64%) ... In Europe, the highest frequencies are found in Central and Eastern Europe. Today it is found at its highest levels in Tajiks (64%), Kyrgyz (63%), Poland and Hungary (56%60%), Ukraine (44-54%[8] depending of the source), and Russia, where one out of two men has this haplogroup. In Hungary contradicting frequencies are reported 60% or 20%. Relatively high frequencies are also found among the ethnic Sorbs (63%) in Eastern Germany and in Scandinavia[1] (the largest being 23% in Iceland). ...[/i]

Posted Image

PE = Persian; PT = Pathan (Pashtun)

SH = Tajiks(dushanbe,khujand..etc)

KL= Pamiri Tajiks,pashaiis and Kohistanis[/quote]
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