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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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#101 User is offline   Aussie Icon

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 10:26 AM

Hey Rooyintan,

I have stumbled across the term Tufecki or Tufechi. It is often attributed to Ottoman Governors mecenary cavalry corp. But the "chi", "cki" and the fact they were red uniforms with red pointy hats makes me think they are a Persian name or at least Turkosized name for Persian cavalry of the time.... What do you think?

Also just read your military posts on Famous Military Leaders. I feel the poor old Xerxes is given an unfair rap. I actually think that he did extremely well against Greece. Points to consider...
1. It was a war forced upon him by his father's loss at Marathon
2. It was a war forced upon him by the Dynastic need to conquor another land as a Persian Ruler.
3. He did sack and destroy the largest and most successful city in Greece - Athens
4. He did not lose Greece, Mardonias and Artabazos? lost Greece at the battle of Platea. I often wonder that had the Persians waited for Xerxes to return with the Medo-Persian divisions things may have gone a little differently.....
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#102 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 12:16 AM

[quote=Aussie;8158]Hey Rooyintan,

I have stumbled across the term Tufecki or Tufechi. It is often attributed to Ottoman Governors mecenary cavalry corp. But the "chi", "cki" and the fact they were red uniforms with red pointy hats makes me think they are a Persian name or at least Turkosized name for Persian cavalry of the time.... What do you think?
[/quote]
Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term. By the way "chi" is a Turkish thing. You see in Persian, we have some loan words from Turkish and Turkish language on the other hand has quite a lot of words of Persian origin.

Quote

Also just read your military posts on Famous Military Leaders. I feel the poor old Xerxes is given an unfair rap. I actually think that he did extremely well against Greece. Points to consider...1. It was a war forced upon him by his father's loss at Marathon2. It was a war forced upon him by the Dynastic need to conquor another land as a Persian Ruler.3. He did sack and destroy the largest and most successful city in Greece - Athens4. He did not lose Greece, Mardonias and Artabazos? lost Greece at the battle of Platea. I often wonder that had the Persians waited for Xerxes to return with the Medo-Persian divisions things may have gone a little differently.....


Well Darius I(the Great) and Xerxes I(the Great), were Persia's most powerful Shahanshahs, the territory that made Persian Empire under these two rulers was the largest Persian Empire ever(comprising of territories in Europe,Africa and Asia, the only 3 known continents of the time). During the time of Xerxes I, a persian explorer by the name of Sataspes had even reached African territories beyond (Nubia, Libya and Egypt which were Persian territories at the time).

I have to say that both Darius I & Xerxes I, although being great statesmens, and shahanshahs however they were no warriors. They both followed the Persian tradition that the Shah had to be present at battles, they both went to battles but were not involved in fighting, they sat and watched. What I mean is Cyrus the Great and Cambyses were warrior-kings, these two were not. Cyrus and Cambyses both were directly involved in combat during battles, whereas Darius & Xerxes were not. Unfortunately, all other Achaemenid rulers followed suit(ie. Xerxes's style), only Artaxerxes III did
get involved in combat to some extent.

The people who should be credited for expansion of the empire during the reign of these two should be their military commanders:

Six Allies of Darius I: helped Darius I to suppress revolts within the empire and
helped him to become Shahanshah.
Otanes http://www.livius.or...nes/otanes.html
Gobryas II http://www.livius.or.../gobryas_2.html
Megabazus I http://www.livius.or.../megabazus.html
Hydarnes I http://www.livius.or...hydarnes_1.html
Intaphrenes http://www.livius.or...ntaphrenes.html
Aspathines http://www.livius.or...aspathines.html

Great Commanders who invaded European territories(Macedonia, Thrace & some Greek territories) for the empire and suppressed Ionian revolts. However these commanders suffered humilating losses at Battle of Maraton and Battle of Platea. But they died on the battle field, a true warrior.

Datis http://www.livius.or...atis/datis.html
Artaphernes http://www.livius.or...rtaphernes.html
Megabyzus II http://www.livius.or...egabyzus02.html
Mardonius http://www.livius.or.../mardonius.html
Hydarnes II http://www.livius.or...hydarnes_2.html

These commanders were all good commanders but I don't think they should be among top 10 Great Military Comanders(of Persian heritage).
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#103 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 05:14 AM

Tufang = Rifle
Tufangchi = Rifleman
Chi = turkic suffix which entered Persian
Post-Chi = Post-Man

[quote=Aussie;8158]Hey Rooyintan,

I have stumbled across the term Tufecki or Tufechi. It is often attributed to Ottoman Governors mecenary cavalry corp. But the "chi", "cki" and the fact they were red uniforms with red pointy hats makes me think they are a Persian name or at least Turkosized name for Persian cavalry of the time.... What do you think?

Also just read your military posts on Famous Military Leaders. I feel the poor old Xerxes is given an unfair rap. I actually think that he did extremely well against Greece. Points to consider...
1. It was a war forced upon him by his father's loss at Marathon
2. It was a war forced upon him by the Dynastic need to conquor another land as a Persian Ruler.
3. He did sack and destroy the largest and most successful city in Greece - Athens
4. He did not lose Greece, Mardonias and Artabazos? lost Greece at the battle of Platea. I often wonder that had the Persians waited for Xerxes to return with the Medo-Persian divisions things may have gone a little differently.....[/quote]
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#104 User is offline   Aussie Icon

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 10:45 AM

Thanks for the breakdown of the Tufecki word Nader. Also Rooyintan I see where you are coming from now with the Persian Military best... A good read mate!
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#105 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 12:45 PM

[QUOTE=Aussie;8214]Thanks for the breakdown of the Tufecki word Nader. Also Rooyintan I see where you are coming from now with the Persian Military best... A good read mate![/QUOTE]

No Worries Mate! Glad you enjoyed it. If you're interested in Persian Military(19th Century when they wore French Uniforms(during the early decades of 19th century) and fought wars against Russia, Britain and Afghanistan; and had border clashes with Ottomans and Turkmen tribes or if you're interested in World War I period in Persia(a very messy period, wars between pro-Central Powers and pro-Allied and Persian Nationalists) let me know I'm happy to start threads on those for you in this forum and other forum visitors if interested can view them as well.
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#106 User is offline   Aussie Icon

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 08:33 AM

Hey Rooyintan,

Actually mate I am very interested in the Persian Military from 1780-1815 as well. Should we create another forum, as I think this one is exhausted for military studies or should we just tag it onto this one.

Some questions I do have..

1. Were there state uniforms issued by the time of the Napoleonic wars or was the uniform much the same as in the Age of Fred, Tribal colours and dress except for the time of Nader Shah where they had red hats and uniforms as well. Most kindly extorted from the local and foreign merchants from memory. I seem to recall some Dutch diplomat/merchant was not happy with his support of the Nader Shah military machine.. Anyway I digress...

2. I know they had Horse artillery by this time, what did it and normal foot artillery look like

3. Did Persia follow European practice in standardising ordnance or was it still made under a system akin to the Ottomans...

4. What were the domiannt troop types? Eg Guard Jazayerchis, Musketeers, Light Troops, Tribal levies, Light Cavalry, Tribal Levy cavalry, Guard Cavalry, Camel Artillery corps etc...........

5. What were some of the Battles they fought if any against the various nations surrounding Persia during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. Orders of Battle would be great.....

There we go some new topic to indulge the military curiosity.........
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#107 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 10:53 AM

[QUOTE=Aussie;8292]Hey Rooyintan,

Actually mate I am very interested in the Persian Military from 1780-1815 as well. Should we create another forum, as I think this one is exhausted for military studies or should we just tag it onto this one.

Some questions I do have..

1. Were there state uniforms issued by the time of the Napoleonic wars or was the uniform much the same as in the Age of Fred, Tribal colours and dress except for the time of Nader Shah where they had red hats and uniforms as well. Most kindly extorted from the local and foreign merchants from memory. I seem to recall some Dutch diplomat/merchant was not happy with his support of the Nader Shah military machine.. Anyway I digress...

2. I know they had Horse artillery by this time, what did it and normal foot artillery look like

3. Did Persia follow European practice in standardising ordnance or was it still made under a system akin to the Ottomans...

4. What were the domiannt troop types? Eg Guard Jazayerchis, Musketeers, Light Troops, Tribal levies, Light Cavalry, Tribal Levy cavalry, Guard Cavalry, Camel Artillery corps etc...........

5. What were some of the Battles they fought if any against the various nations surrounding Persia during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. Orders of Battle would be great.....

There we go some new topic to indulge the military curiosity.........[/QUOTE]

I've created two new posts under "History". One called "Napoleanic Period: Persian Military" and other "Persian Military Costumes & Uniforms".
I will update Napoleanic period post later on...
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