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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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#61 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:03 AM

One more interesting fact to mention:
The Father of Afghans c.q. Pashtuns......used to be the bache berish (ofcourse denied by Afghans) of Nader Afshar! :D
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#62 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:19 PM

Rostam-jan,

Don't swear please.

D

[quote=Rostam;7406]Which britians and arabs.......with their slaves (YOUR FUCKING ancestors) have destroyed![/quote]
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#63 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:21 PM

Dear Abdalis,

Check out the link below. I think I found the Sword of Persia for you and other to read online:

http://books.google....hl=en#PPA107,M1


[quote=Abdalis;7405]What a great response! Cheers guys for the info and the passionate way you discuss the life and times of Nader Shah. Naturally I am not into the political inspirations he evokes as I am not Persian or have Persian ancestry.
I will say however, that I did postgraduate studies in Ancient history and have always had a fascination for Alexander the Great and the Persians and Darius, who was given a bit of bad press. He was certainly overshadowed by Alex but he was a brave man and the earlier exploits of his were something to be admired. So to is the fact that Persia was one of the few societies that had a social welfare system, not as we know it but the support of pregnant woman by the state demonstrates a society of true culture and civilization. Any way since then I have always had a fascination for the Persians. They play a secondary role in the Age of Napoleon, but they were a power that both the Russians and Ottomans had to respect from 1727- 1820 at least. Unfortunately until now my interest in Persian military history remained ignorant. Only now with your help and energetic research am I beginning to gain an appreciation of the Persian miliatry in the time of Nader Shah and later. Just found out that in the Napoleonic wars the Persians had Horse Artillery. Amazing! Keep up the good work!

Regards
Abdalis[/quote]
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#64 User is offline   Aussie Icon

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 04:04 PM

Cheers Darius! I have the Sword of Persia arriving in the mail soon. An excellent resource from the look of things. Cannot wait to sit down and have a good read. Once again thanks mate!

As for Rostam-jan, you needn't attempt to shield me or protect me from such comments or behaviour Darius, I used to manage Nightclubs and am quite capable of defending myself, though I am a pacifist by nature. But thanks for chipping in and cutting out the offensive language, I do appreciate it.

One thing I will say, re our militant friend with an angst (Rostam-jan), is that actually having travelled extensively (implication although not actually verified - he has not) I have discovered that the redneck is not fundamentally a native of the Southern climes of the USA but is a native of all nations and ethnic groups. That type of generalist bigotry is a human trait of the emotionally and intellectually challenged..... I suggest therapy for our mate.. I am sure there are some psychologists who could recommend him writing to his parents or whatever!!! So that he may grow as a human being in true nobility and virtue and maybe one day become a truly civilized human being.....

I so detest ignorance and emotional arguments based on sweeping generalisations.. They are so easy to invent but demonstrate a lazy and redneck mind. I am sure Rostam-jan would prefer to be seen as better than the Deep South Redneck American but until he learns to stop his prediliction for sword rasping I may just have to call him Cleitus or Bubba or Forest or some other equally Southern name because that is how he is acting...

Right now that I have defended my honour back to the important things - History. From the scanned pages you have sent me Darius this work really does look like the sort of thing I am looking for. Cheers again!
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#65 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 04:21 PM

Abdilgai benamous! Darius my fellow Tajik....did not defended you..MUNAFIQ/HYPOCRITE!
He only told me not to swear...........because he dont know....for what..you bastard has come here.

You try to post decent and act well....to show us and let us believe that Afghans can be human?
Forget it.....you hypocrite asshole.
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#66 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 08:54 PM

The Hotakis original centre was Quetta, modern Balochistan. The Hotakis, still the same as their turkish forefathers were nomads that looted and plundered with the help of the nomadic Balochs caravans, villages ....at the pre-Hotaki time there was no a pashtunized Turk or even a Pashtun living in Kandahar, but Arabs, Mongols, Hazaras, Persians (Tajiks), some Aseri families with Georgians, Indians (Sikhs)...

Ps: no swearing om those who gave Tajiks a second and safety home....americans, germans, dutches....

@to Abdali
welcome. Have a nice time here and dont take some comments too serious. Btw how do you come on the name Abdali?
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#67 User is offline   Aussie Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 02:59 AM

Rednecks! A worldwide phenomon "Abdilgai benamous! Darius my fellow Tajik....did not defended you..MUNAFIQ/HYPOCRITE!
He only told me not to swear...........because he dont know....for what..you bastard has come here. You try to post decent and act well....to show us and let us believe that Afghans can be human?
Forget it.....you hypocrite asshole."


Re the above! I rest my case! I will not talk about this anymore. I am here to discuss the military of Nader Shah. Anyone that is not here to discuss Nader Shah and has no info on the Persian Military of his day, kindly find some other thread to peddle your hate filled wares on. I found this site in my googling of Nader Shah and having read some posts I joined hoping to get info on Nader Shah. Thankfully there some very intelligent and sincere members on this forum and I have gained a wealth of knowledge from them. To them I say again thanks.

In response to Parsistani, I stumbled across the name in my reading of Nader Shah. Correct me if I am wrong or have got confused about the name, but there was a Heavy Cavalry Corp of about 4000 strong that were allied to Nader Shah. Infact it was Nader Shah's close leuitenant that commanded these horsemen. They were Abdalis cavalry. I am guessing Abdalis is a group of people, a tribe or was it just the name of the commander. A common enough thing calling regiments or brigades of men after their original commander. But my guess is that they are a group of warriors. Was I correct in this assumption? Anyway a cavlary corp of 4000 Abdalis Horsemen seemed impressive, so I chose that name...

Regards
Abdalis
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#68 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:22 AM

[quote=Abdalis;7457]Rednecks! A worldwide phenomon "Abdilgai benamous! Darius my fellow Tajik....did not defended you..MUNAFIQ/HYPOCRITE!
He only told me not to swear...........because he dont know....for what..you bastard has come here. You try to post decent and act well....to show us and let us believe that Afghans can be human?
Forget it.....you hypocrite asshole."


Re the above! I rest my case! I will not talk about this anymore. I am here to discuss the military of Nader Shah. Anyone that is not here to discuss Nader Shah and has no info on the Persian Military of his day, kindly find some other thread to peddle your hate filled wares on. I found this site in my googling of Nader Shah and having read some posts I joined hoping to get info on Nader Shah. Thankfully there some very intelligent and sincere members on this forum and I have gained a wealth of knowledge from them. To them I say again thanks.

In response to Parsistani, I stumbled across the name in my reading of Nader Shah. Correct me if I am wrong or have got confused about the name, but there was a Heavy Cavalry Corp of about 4000 strong that were allied to Nader Shah. Infact it was Nader Shah's close leuitenant that commanded these horsemen. They were Abdalis cavalry. I am guessing Abdalis is a group of people, a tribe or was it just the name of the commander. A common enough thing calling regiments or brigades of men after their original commander. But my guess is that they are a group of warriors. Was I correct in this assumption? Anyway a cavlary corp of 4000 Abdalis Horsemen seemed impressive, so I chose that name...

Regards
Abdalis[/quote]

Peace.
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#69 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 09:31 AM

http://www.paymaneme...rticle&sid=3030
Above and below is a great work that shows how Nader Afshar gave the land of Kandahari Tajiks to Pashtons for their servitude to Nader Afshar against their own Pashtons, the Hotakis. Such is the nature of Pashtons, selling out their own brothers to empirors for the prospect of gold and land. They are doing exactly the same thing now in Afghanistan too with the only difference that this time they take DOLLAR for it.
http://www.paymaneme...rticle&sid=3030
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#70 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 03:59 PM

Very well said Bactrian! ...now we can him just let bark!
He has come here to....do us believe...that Afghans/Pashtuns are (normal) humans! lol
Idiot!
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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:05 PM

Abdalis, Tajiks are known for their sharp intellect, rationality, and tolerance. There might be some amongst them that might lose their temper at some blatant hypocricy, or at wily disguises. But a majority of them just wait and watch with amusement, in other words, they "play along." I am positive that almost all members of the forum by now must have already figured out that you are an Afghan/Pashton, or a die-hard sympathizer, cunningly hiding yourself behind pseudo-intellectual english words and aiming at devising a fine character out of Ahmad Khan Abdali, who only had one thing that can be evidently said to have been fine, his face. I have been reading your texts, and I knew it was coming. I knew you would eventually use Nader Afshar as a tool for giving your Baba some positive publicity.

Wow! You guys got me! I must have been dreaming to think I could outsmart you guys with your smart intellects etc. Here I am thinking that I am in fact an Aussie who has his own hobby shop and is writing a wargaming article on the Persian army of the Eighteenth century. You know what, I was dubious about signing on because of the preconceptions about middle eastern craziness. For a moment there I thought I was wrong. But you know what! Not only do I not understand half the bloody things you blokes are saying both literally and culturally, but this final statement from you guys says it all. No wonder so much of the middle east is screwed if this is how you think. Why in the world would I bother trying to be so cunning and so smart to bother writing about some guys named Baba, Nader Afsha, Ahmad Khan Abdali etc. I do not even know them, nor do I give a rats arse about them. You guys are so blind and ignorant that you actually try and come side ways at each other before stabbing each other in the back. Are your homes and your countries sooooo %$#@ up (pardon my French) that this is how you all act to one another. And you wonder why the Aussies and Americans and Brits have to come over and clean up the mess you people leave behind. And the greatest tradgedy of it all is that the USA is crap at rebuilding countries infrastructure, Germany and Japan aside post WWII. They do not have a clue how to rebuild Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia Mogadishu etc. But at least they are being proactive. All you Turban wearing warriors with your sabre rattling and violence can do is just keep fighting each other and then everyone else when one of your smarter and more ruthless figureheads works out that if you focus the blame on westerners than nobody will see the inherant problems within the country or the human rights abuses so prevalent in Iran, Afghanistan etc. There is little freedom of speech or freedom of thought, just malignant hate and violence.

Well I have a fair bit of info on Nader Shah and I have the pictures and info that was kindly downloaded for my so called "play along" charade. So maybe I should tell the lot of you to go to hell and enjoy the really crazy ruinious type of hate and stupity you all seem to exact on each other. I do not give a rats arse whether you are Pushton, Afghani, Tajik or whatever, all I wanted was to get info on Nader Shah and his military. The guy was a nutcase anyway... But I still hold a great general!

An "Afghan/Pashton, or a die-hard sympathizer" indeed! You should all be very ashamed of yourselves. You all seem to need therapy. Who cares whose Grandaddy ruled who and whose great, great grandfather killed the other great ,great grandfather. Get over it! Its history! Oh yeah! I forgot you cannot! That is too bad! Because while I am enjoy the peace and freedom here in Oz you are all going to continue killing and blaming each other in your third world, war torn countries and then wondering why you cannot feed your own people or why foreigners are in your country settling internal disputes...... You guys need to get laid or something!

To those that did help, my thanks. To those that put Machiavelli and Tsun Tzu to shame. Grow up or Bugger off!
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#72 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:38 PM

Abdali, in Afghanistan there is only one nation that keep fighting no matter against the own tribes/nation or against the other nations, specially against the mongolic population of Afghanistan, the persianized Hazaras. We Persian-Speaker lived for 1000 of years beside alien nations in peace and harmony tough most of them were of wild nature (ancestors of Turks, Hazaras, Mongols, Arghunes...) till 1800 and all of them had different languages, cultures, faithes, costumes .... but there was not only a day where a Tajik nor another person of another nation took a stone and threw it against someone. SInce your ancestors brought Pashtuns to a country which was one of the most modernized and developed countries with a very heavy positive history everything went down. The country began to die. Instead of keepin on art, education, universities, culture, language people began to pray all days 24 hours and than we had a sociel decadence. From the beginning when Pashtuns (Awghans/Afghans) came to our country everything changed. A country which was the proto-typ of europe of modern european cities is today nothing than only stones...and solong Pashtuns live in that country nothing will get change no matter how Persian speaker try to spread their peacefully moderate and educated mind over Awghans. Awghans will allways stay the same dirt that once came, raped, killed, looted (like today) ...., and solving the ''Awghan question'' is much better for all nation and the entire world than fighting for allways against a terroristic and backward nation that keep the world in fear. In these kinds of movements they are very good. Killing, actions against europe, america...GB..Germany, spain... it is not we who want fight but those mf Pkhtuns who have senseless fighting in their vains and gens...they wont learn...Tajiks will never fight without any causes..once we gave the world honour, pride...education, humanism, science...and even a culture (i can count much more if you wish) and today it is us, the Tajik nation that suffer!!!!!!!! NOW STOP TALKING NONSENSE

The problem concerned to the Abdalis is they killed mio. and hundred thousands of children, women, men only to invade and loot india. Ahmad Khan Gay-Dali was not better than Djingis Khan infact much more worser and a pure monster and nowadays his sons, the dirty Awghans, of course concerned to their mentality, call him as Baba (pers. word for ''Papa'' (Father))
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#73 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:28 PM

Why are some people insulting this poor Aussie who is doing all of us a favor by his interest and research into Nader Shah ? Abdalis, I hope your research bears fruit, and eventually you will write a good book.
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#74 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:49 PM

[quote=Nader Shah;7491]Why are some people insulting this poor Aussie who is doing all of us a favor by his interest and research into Nader Shah ? Abdalis, I hope your research bears fruit, and eventually you will write a good book.[/quote]
First of all...since he is Afghan its justified to kill him!!!
Second....he is here to try to say ''We are all afghans'' the famous Afghan slogan....to try destroy the Tajik/Persian culture.
Third....we have a mission here with/on this forum....he is only here to work against us!

Parsistani...thanx for informative post. :)
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#75 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 07:43 PM

ROSTAM jan please control yourself. Abdalis has the right to have this nick and This forum isn't swearsaurus central.
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Posted 15 March 2008 - 10:20 PM

Guys, I do not support this kind of behavior with a person who had not entered the forum swearing and cursing, but he was looking for some knowledge. Even if he was pretending, it's better to choose the same inquisitive tone and language rather than frightening him off or turning him into a bad-wisher.

Abdalis, you have not been lucky with the nick you've chosen. Anyway, I hope you've received some introductory info for your write-up. Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

Cheers.
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#77 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:22 PM

Abdalis,

Yesterday I edited my thread entry by providing more hyperlinks. I hope that the hyperlinks have been of good use to you. The info were very brief but I think that at least you're able to use those names of tribes/ethnicty, famous commanders and names of battles as starting point to assist you with further research.

Nadir Shah Afshar was the last greatest ruler to come from Persia(Iran). After his death Iran had Karim Khan Zand(a solid military commander with good economy management, diplomacy & trade skills) and Agha Mohammad Khan Qajar(military genius but very cruel) also two powerful rulers but they could never be compared to the great man Nader Shah Afshar. Nader's assassination turned Persia into a weak state that could not compete with the other empires of the time Russia, Britain or Ottomans.

As for Afghanistan, Ahmad Shah Durrani he had learnt everything from Nader Shah and thus became a powerful ruler himself. Just like post-Nader Shah Persia, post-Ahmad Shah Afghanistan became a weak state as well.


I'm sorry that you were insulted by some people in the forum. Good luck with your research. I'd keen to read your work once you finish, maybe I can learn more from it ;-)
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#78 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:28 AM

[quote=Abdalis;7489]Abdalis, Tajiks are known for their sharp intellect, rationality, and tolerance. There might be some amongst them that might lose their temper at some blatant hypocricy, or at wily disguises. But a majority of them just wait and watch with amusement, in other words, they "play along." I am positive that almost all members of the forum by now must have already figured out that you are an Afghan/Pashton, or a die-hard sympathizer, cunningly hiding yourself behind pseudo-intellectual english words and aiming at devising a fine character out of Ahmad Khan Abdali, who only had one thing that can be evidently said to have been fine, his face. I have been reading your texts, and I knew it was coming. I knew you would eventually use Nader Afshar as a tool for giving your Baba some positive publicity.

Wow! You guys got me! I must have been dreaming to think I could outsmart you guys with your smart intellects etc. Here I am thinking that I am in fact an Aussie who has his own hobby shop and is writing a wargaming article on the Persian army of the Eighteenth century. You know what, I was dubious about signing on because of the preconceptions about middle eastern craziness. For a moment there I thought I was wrong. But you know what! Not only do I not understand half the bloody things you blokes are saying both literally and culturally, but this final statement from you guys says it all. No wonder so much of the middle east is screwed if this is how you think. Why in the world would I bother trying to be so cunning and so smart to bother writing about some guys named Baba, Nader Afsha, Ahmad Khan Abdali etc. I do not even know them, nor do I give a rats arse about them. You guys are so blind and ignorant that you actually try and come side ways at each other before stabbing each other in the back. Are your homes and your countries sooooo %$#@ up (pardon my French) that this is how you all act to one another. And you wonder why the Aussies and Americans and Brits have to come over and clean up the mess you people leave behind. And the greatest tradgedy of it all is that the USA is crap at rebuilding countries infrastructure, Germany and Japan aside post WWII. They do not have a clue how to rebuild Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia Mogadishu etc. But at least they are being proactive. All you Turban wearing warriors with your sabre rattling and violence can do is just keep fighting each other and then everyone else when one of your smarter and more ruthless figureheads works out that if you focus the blame on westerners than nobody will see the inherant problems within the country or the human rights abuses so prevalent in Iran, Afghanistan etc. There is little freedom of speech or freedom of thought, just malignant hate and violence.

Well I have a fair bit of info on Nader Shah and I have the pictures and info that was kindly downloaded for my so called "play along" charade. So maybe I should tell the lot of you to go to hell and enjoy the really crazy ruinious type of hate and stupity you all seem to exact on each other. I do not give a rats arse whether you are Pushton, Afghani, Tajik or whatever, all I wanted was to get info on Nader Shah and his military. The guy was a nutcase anyway... But I still hold a great general!

An "Afghan/Pashton, or a die-hard sympathizer" indeed! You should all be very ashamed of yourselves. You all seem to need therapy. Who cares whose Grandaddy ruled who and whose great, great grandfather killed the other great ,great grandfather. Get over it! Its history! Oh yeah! I forgot you cannot! That is too bad! Because while I am enjoy the peace and freedom here in Oz you are all going to continue killing and blaming each other in your third world, war torn countries and then wondering why you cannot feed your own people or why foreigners are in your country settling internal disputes...... You guys need to get laid or something!

To those that did help, my thanks. To those that put Machiavelli and Tsun Tzu to shame. Grow up or Bugger off![/quote]

Peace.
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#79 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:36 AM

[quote=Gul agha;7494]ROSTAM jan please control yourself. Abdalis has the right to have this nick and This forum isn't swearsaurus central.[/quote]

"Swearsaurus". Very linquistically creative.
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Posted 16 March 2008 - 03:39 AM

To "respected" Abdalis!


Reading your writings I have found nothing wise and useful in your posts, except accusing tajiks in ignorance and humiliating them with "valid" arguments from history. Dont show your education and knowledge here. We all khow who you are and what you hide behind your friendship or scientist's disguise. We accepted you as a guest and showed a very good tajik hospitalityto you as to the part of humang being, but you in turn threw many stones of insult to us, spoiled our moods, destroyed our party by you pseudointellectual words.
you think that you can change our minds by preaching historical facts and can divide us into many parts? Never. All of your methods of manipulating the people have showed their weakness befor the kind eyes of my fellow tajiks and can never be used here any more. Now your time is gone. You'd better tell you fairy tales about Abdalis to the kids now(I dont think tajik kids can believe such foolish stories). Abdalis was mentally deficient and maniac who had nothing in his mind bu killing and torturing. And I wonder How such a scientist like you can afford spoil his mind in researching the preversed life of such persons. I guees the main motive lies behind psychological factors. Every person wants to find his counterpart in his life. Thus I think you are possesed by the passion of imitating Abdalis. That is why, not we but you must go to therapy to cure your ill mind.
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