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#1 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 09:25 AM

Salam/Dorood All,

Tajiks of Afghanistan might eventually find a true regional backer if the clerical Iranian regime gets abolished and replaced by one consisting of secular, and pro-Western, elements of true Iranian descent. Iran has failed Tajiks of Afghanistan in every phase of their struggle against the evil and dark army of Pashton tribalism of pre-soviet and their tribal islamism of post-soviet eras.

During the pre-Soviet Afghanistan (Khorasan), by adopting in 1935 the name "Iran", which is a substitute and a modern term for the word Ariana, this western neighbor, in a way, broke up its cultural ties with the equal partners, if not its native owners, of the heritage of the "Land of Arians". It threw millions of defenseless and ruled Tajiks unto the hands of the later generation British Pashton satraps whose only thought of consolidating power was by coaxing the Pashton tribes into animosity against the non-Pashtons, mainly Tajiks. (Earlier Pashton satraps of Afghanistan were all Persianized rulers with a good command of the Farsi language--some were even fine Farsi poets.)

When a few decades later, the Pashton despot began Pashtonizing the Khorasani or Arian identity and heritage of the country, such as displacing the word "Farsi" with "Dari" and renaming with Pashto words the Farsi names of the Tajik cities, Iran just watched with utter disregard and remoteness. It is worth mentioning that Iran at the time enjoyed high international status within world bodies and its warning or sympathy with Tajiks would have been seriously heeded had it had the intention to raise its legitimate concern over this Pashton suppressive cultural chauvinism. But still, iran during this time was far better than Iran after the Islamic Revolution.

During , and after, the course of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan right till now, the Iranian regime's attitude and policy has been subversive towards Tajik harmony and progress. In every front, the regime has favored forces that are hostile to Tajik solidarity. It dealt a heavy blow to the Tajik government of Prof. Burhanuddeen Rabbani by backing the Shiia group of Hazaras against it. A "truly Persian" Iranian regime would have ensured the political fate and unity of Hazaras and Tajiks. This religious favoritism of the clerical regime consequently weakened the political position of Hazaras and Tajiks and caused a rift between the two ethnic groups that otherwise share common language and culture. Through Farsi publications that are sent to Tajikistan and Afghanistan, the regime promotes Shiiaism, which is a bigger obstacle to the unity of Tajiks because the majority of Tajiks are Sunni muslims while some either belong to other religions or are agnostics. The sectarian theme of the regime's Farsi publications futher alienates Sunni Tajiks of Afghanistan and Tajikistan from millions of Shiia Persians in Iran.

The anti US rhetorics of the Iranian regime can even jeopordize the position and good will of pro-Western Tajiks who would otherwise want to have friendly ties with the US. What the US, as well as Tajiks, however, need to understand is that the Iranian regime is a threat to both the West and the Tajiks/Persians. Those who speak Farsi are not necessarily Tajiks/Persians. Pashtons speak Farsi. The Iranian regime speaks Farsi. Yet both of these entities are non-Tajik and alien to the native residents. And both are hostile to Tajik/Persian identity. Pashtons attemp to erase that identity in Afghanistan whereas the Iranian regime strives to replace it with Shiiaism in which it sees its survival in much the same way the Saudi government sees in Wahabiism the Sauds' survival.

The Iranian regime, the Akhonds, adamantly impedes Tajiks' secular identity. Tajiks need a secular pro-Western regime in Iran that will take upon itself the moral and parental task of protecting the Tajiks' rights in Afghanistan and promoting Farsi in Tajikistan and Afghanistan through non-sectarian and secular prublications and language centers. For now, our Tajiks have no sincere regional or world power to back them. In the absence of a regional or world "friend", Tajiks will continue to remain miserable and suppressed.

Wsalam/Pedrood
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#2 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 10:36 AM

Well said Bactra gerami, :)

I dont know...actually I love Iran and consider it as our motherland etc.
But on the other hand....they have TOTALLY betrayed us, and ''us = also they self'' They have also betrayed their own culture, by not helping the PERSIAN OF CENTRAL ASIA (Tajiks)!


Still I can never hate Iran, Iran is the ground where Ferdowsi, Tusi, Saadi, Khorammadin and many more has walked and are buried!
''Cho Iranzameen nabashad tanhe man mabaad''!
:(
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#3 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 11:20 AM

Neo Bactra Jan,

I agree with most of the above. Shiaism/Sunnism is another week point. instead of helping us with good books/cutural activiited they try to send shia books, it gives a weapon in the hands of our oponents to undermine our strugle. Brother,never say pro west, we shouldnt be pro no one. the west is no any better than the other enemies, it was them who rooted out our farsi in indian sub continent. we should be pro ourselves and be careful and see what is best for us instead of being pro someone else.

We persians in Afghanistan should also be largely responsible for what we got today. we didnt show any reaction all those cultural suppression during the last decades and centries. our language name was changed and we never questioned why it happend, the names of cities/villages were changed and we were sitting our bums and watching, pushtoons were brought to the non pushtoon areas and we were still sitting out there and watching.

Rostam jan: yes, we dont hate iran and there is no reason why we should hate them. but we surely criticize their polices. the forceful removal of refugees is another example to damage our brotherhood and give a pretext to our enemies to keep us apart.
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#4 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 01:08 PM

Historically and at the present day, the Iranian government had been a sort of friend to Pushtun governments of Afghanistan except Taliban who were Iran's biggest enemy in the region.

As far as I'm concerned no Iranian government will be good wether secular or theocratic. What needs to be done is to make Iranian people aware of problems Persian speakers face in Afghanistan, that way maybe some people might help.

Iranian governments ever since time of Safavids til present day have had their first priority on Shiite Union(ie. Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan, South Lebanon, Bahrain and Yemen). In Afghanistan to some extent Iranian govts helped shiite Hazara & Farsiwans.

In Iran Shiite Religious beliefs is first priority, everything else will be less important or of no significance.
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#5 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 02:32 AM

Neo Bactra,

I am not surely exactly what help you expect from Iran - is it moral support, active support and propaganda, sending arms and promoting secession, or direct military engagement ? Intervening in other country's affairs is a very tricky business, and if militarily very dangerous (eg Nazis during WWII). Even if Iran had a secular government, not much might happen because every country takes care of itself. Once you decided to joins Pashtuns, you are stuck with them, and it is too late now to ask for outside intervention - although I wish it could somehow miraculously happen. You see, even Turkey which had ultra nationalists and secualrists in power - after all they invaded Cyprus - since it became a republic never did much to support secession of Azeris or to invade Iran or even morally support them (I mean the government). To be realistic, forget about Iran - Iran itself needs to be liberated from Akhunds and these nasty bastards are armed to the teeth and willing to kill millions (unlike the poor Shah) to keep the Arabs and Azeri Turks in power in Iran. Focus on what you can do ... I doubt the Tajiks in Afghanistan even care about these issues, they are unaware of their identity, only intellectuals like you care. On fact, even if Iran came in and invaded Afghanistan to "liberate" Tajiks, the first to fight Iran and stand for Afghanistan would probably be the Tajiks and it would be suicide for Iran to jump where all (British, Soviets, US) have been burned.
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#6 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 06:26 AM

Quote

I am not surely exactly what help you expect from Iran - is it moral support, active support and propaganda, sending arms and promoting secession, or direct military engagement ?


ALL....and MORE!

Persians of Iran....who have forgotten...the eastern part of Persia, the holy ground of Iranzameen!
Are nothing but cowards and deserve DEATH! :cool:
I am ready to die and sacrifice for....Shiraz, Espahan or Yazd....the same way Persians of Iran should LOVE....Balkh, Samarqand and Dushanbe!

Quote

On fact, even if Iran came in and invaded Afghanistan to "liberate" Tajiks, the first to fight Iran and stand for Afghanistan would probably be the Tajiks

STILL better...then the current situation!

The current situation is a shame......even death is better then being oppressed and fucked by britians, afghans, ubzaks ...and do nothing!
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#7 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 06:57 AM

[quote=Nader Shah;7311]Neo Bactra,

I am not surely exactly what help you expect from Iran - is it moral support, active support and propaganda, sending arms and promoting secession, or direct military engagement ? Intervening in other country's affairs is a very tricky business, and if militarily very dangerous (eg Nazis during WWII). Even if Iran had a secular government, not much might happen because every country takes care of itself. Once you decided to joins Pashtuns, you are stuck with them, and it is too late now to ask for outside intervention - although I wish it could somehow miraculously happen. You see, even Turkey which had ultra nationalists and secualrists in power - after all they invaded Cyprus - since it became a republic never did much to support secession of Azeris or to invade Iran or even morally support them (I mean the government). To be realistic, forget about Iran - Iran itself needs to be liberated from Akhunds and these nasty bastards are armed to the teeth and willing to kill millions (unlike the poor Shah) to keep the Arabs and Azeri Turks in power in Iran. Focus on what you can do ... I doubt the Tajiks in Afghanistan even care about these issues, they are unaware of their identity, only intellectuals like you care. On fact, even if Iran came in and invaded Afghanistan to "liberate" Tajiks, the first to fight Iran and stand for Afghanistan would probably be the Tajiks and it would be suicide for Iran to jump where all (British, Soviets, US) have been burned.[/quote]

Dear Nader Shah,

Salam/Dorood,

The aim of my post was to expose the unPersian essence of the present regime of Iran. The political situation in Afghanistan, was and continues to be, very fragile. Tajiks were the main opponets of the Taliban regime and they eventually won the war.

However, since they lacked a regional backer, they were brushed aside in favor of the Pashtons who were backed by Pakistan, a regional atomic power. When the Taliban collapsed, Pashtons were too humiliated to dare to claim absolute rule of the country. Had Tajiks had a regional backer, or a strong kin state, as Iran is, they would have won the bargain over power with the West. Pashtons had Pakistan to bargain for them. Hence they won. Akhonds are a diplomatically outcast regime. A secular Iranian regime, with some Persian nationalist hawks in it, would have definitely bargained for Tajiks. Any association with the present Iranian regime is a political suicide for any Tajik leader. He will be immediately suspected and disfavored by the West.

Dear Nader Shah, if you were genuinely interested, we will discuss in details the ways whereby Iran can promote Tajik awareness and political ambition if Iran is to be considered a Persian state.

Wsalam/Pedrood
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#8 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 07:32 AM

I have a question: did the Shah do anything for Tajiks or Persian speaking people in Afghanistan ?

Another question: why was Iran one of the main backers of the Northern Alliance and then dropped out ? What caused that - Pakistani lobbying and US influence ? I mean the NA was supported by the USA, so why did the USA drop them just like that ? Could it also be that the Northern Alliance could not hold together after Ahmad Shah Massoud's death ?

These are legitimate questions that one must ask, before putting the entire blame on Iran. However, I do agree with your point that Iran was not able or willing to help Tajiks. I am really disappointed by the regime in Iran, I often feel they are more Arab than Iranian.

[quote=Neo Bactra;7317]Dear Nader Shah,

Salam/Dorood,

The aim of my post was to expose the unPersian essence of the present regime of Iran. The political situation in Afghanistan, was and continues to be, very fragile. Tajiks were the main opponets of the Taliban regime and they eventually won the war.

However, since they lacked a regional backer, they were brushed aside in favor of the Pashtons who were backed by Pakistan, a regional atomic power. When the Taliban collapsed, Pashtons were too humiliated to dare to claim absolute rule of the country. Had Tajiks had a regional backer, or a strong kin state, as Iran is, they would have won the bargain over power with the West. Pashtons had Pakistan to bargain for them. Hence they won. Akhonds are a diplomatically outcast regime. A secular Iranian regime, with some Persian nationalist hawks in it, would have definitely bargained for Tajiks. Any association with the present Iranian regime is a political suicide for any Tajik leader. He will be immediately suspected and disfavored by the West.

Dear Nader Shah, if you were genuinely interested, we will discuss in details the ways whereby Iran can promote Tajik awareness and political ambition if Iran is to be considered a Persian state.

Wsalam/Pedrood[/quote]
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#9 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:37 AM

[quote=Nader Shah;7322]I have a question: did the Shah do anything for Tajiks or Persian speaking people in Afghanistan ?

Another question: why was Iran one of the main backers of the Northern Alliance and then dropped out ? What caused that - Pakistani lobbying and US influence ? I mean the NA was supported by the USA, so why did the USA drop them just like that ? Could it also be that the Northern Alliance could not hold together after Ahmad Shah Massoud's death ?

These are legitimate questions that one must ask, before putting the entire blame on Iran. However, I do agree with your point that Iran was not able or willing to help Tajiks. I am really disappointed by the regime in Iran, I often feel they are more Arab than Iranian.[/quote]

Dear Nader Shah,

Salam/Dorood,

Those are very valid and compelling questions. I will try to engage all three questions here:

1) There is no evidence of any tangible Iranian support for the Taliban's opposition group, the Tajiks. The only collaboration it could offer the opposition forces was in terms of armary and logistics because in terms of propoganda, Iran was already an internationally discredited regime. Yet after the collapse of the Taliban regime, if there was any indication of Iranian logistical support, it would have been immediately exposed by the Nato, and the Pashton Afghan Mellatis for a number of reasons. But much to the credit of those self-supporting Tajik freedom fighters, since no aid was given to the opposition by the Akhonds, nothing could be found. Americans were the first to truly believe that Iran was not helping the Tajiks because they were also the ones who admitted that even throughout the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, the entire US support was channeled to the Pashtons.

2) ISI's interference and propoganda; Zalmai Khalilzaad's involvement, who is an ethnic Pashton; Pashtons' long association with CIA, dating back to days of Soviet occupation; and the presence of Pashtons in international bodies, such as UN affliated groups--Human Rights bodies--are among many things that helped bring the Pashtons back to power.

3) You have already guessed one of the reasons for the failure of the Tajiks yourself. The martyrdom of Massoud provided a leadership gap that no Tajik could fill in Afghanistan. Massoud and his forces were never liked by Iran. To the Iranian regime, Masoud represented the pious picture of a Sunni man which the clerical regime had spent decades to demonize. Sunni is Arab and Shiia is Muslim. That was their regime's doctrine which it sought to inculcate in the minds of young Iranians. The narrow-minded Shiia regime of Iran would only support a Shiia man who would in turn offer unconditional allegience to the Ayatullahs in Qom and Tehran. Massoud was not one to bow to self-appointed Shiia Ayatollahs or Sunni Arab Sheikhs. So he was hated by both extremist groups.

Nader Shah Jan, there is more to it. If I find time, I will share in the next posts.

Wsalam/Pedrood
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#10 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:48 AM

Iran signed a Friendship Treaty with Turkey, USSR, Afghanistan & Iraq in 1921 during the time Ahmad Shah was on the throne and Reza Khan Mirpanj was sardarsepah & minister of War. Since then Iran did not interfer in Afghanistan Turkey & USSR affairs. Turkey & Afghanistan kept to their promises and never interfered in Iran's affairs. USSR however broke that in 1941 when invaded Iran and then again by backing Automous Republic of Mahabad and Autonmous Republic of South Azerbaijan in 1945 & 1946 respectively, then again in 1951-1953 by supporting Tudeh Party (all these in Stalin's period, one of biggest enemies of Persian people and yet in Tajikistan this man is loved by many!)
Iran only interfered in Afghanistan during Islamic republic period by first supporting Hazara & Tajik Mujaheddin in USSR's invasion of Afghanistan then during the overthrow of Najubullah's govt and later supporting Northern Alliance. Now with Taliban removed from govt, Iran is friend with Afghan/Pushtun govt of Afghanistan and does not get involved. Also Iran's advisor of Afghanistan affairs is no other than Hekmatyar(exiled pushtun who lived in Tehran for many years since 1990s). Obviously this man wants Tajiks and Hazaras destroyed.
Afghanistan on the other hand didn't get involved in interfering in Iran's affair until Taliban came to power, Taliban sent wahhabi terrorists inside Iran who would blow up mosques(across Iran) and Shrine of Imam Reza in Mashhad killing innocent people. Also Taliban claimed Khorasan province in Iran as part of Afghanistan and militarily planned to attack in 1999 when border clashes occured and Taliban were defeated by Iranian Revolution Guards on the Iran-Afghan border.

Iraq broke friendship treaty during 1958 by supporting the use of Arabian Gulf instead of Persian Gulf, then again in 1970s claiming Iran's arvand rud. Iran also replied in the 1970s by supporting Kurdish Separatist groups and also in 1960s supporting the idea of creation of Assyria which never happend!
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#11 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:59 AM

[quote=rooyintan;7338]Iran signed a Friendship Treaty with Turkey, USSR, Afghanistan & Iraq in 1921 during the time Ahmad Shah was on the throne and Reza Khan Mirpanj was sardarsepah & minister of War. Since then Iran did not interfer in Afghanistan Turkey & USSR affairs. Turkey & Afghanistan kept to their promises and never interfered in Iran's affairs. USSR however broke that in 1941 when invaded Iran and then again by backing Automous Republic of Mahabad and Autonmous Republic of South Azerbaijan in 1945 & 1946 respectively, then again in 1951-1953 by supporting Tudeh Party (all these in Stalin's period, one of biggest enemies of Persian people and yet in Tajikistan this man is loved by many!)
Iran only interfered in Afghanistan during Islamic republic period by first supporting Hazara & Tajik Mujaheddin in USSR's invasion of Afghanistan then during the overthrow of Najubullah's govt and later supporting Northern Alliance. Now with Taliban removed from govt, Iran is friend with Afghan/Pushtun govt of Afghanistan and does not get involved. Also Iran's advisor of Afghanistan affairs is no other than Hekmatyar(exiled pushtun who lived in Tehran for many years since 1990s). Obviously this man wants Tajiks and Hazaras destroyed.
Afghanistan on the other hand didn't get involved in interfering in Iran's affair until Taliban came to power, Taliban sent wahhabi terrorists inside Iran who would blow up mosques(across Iran) and Shrine of Imam Reza in Mashhad killing innocent people. Also Taliban claimed Khorasan province in Iran as part of Afghanistan and militarily planned to attack in 1999 when border clashes occured and Taliban were defeated by Iranian Revolution Guards on the Iran-Afghan border.

Iraq broke friendship treaty during 1958 by supporting the use of Arabian Gulf instead of Persian Gulf, then again in 1970s claiming Iran's arvand rud. Iran also replied in the 1970s by supporting Kurdish Separatist groups and also in 1960s supporting the idea of creation of Assyria which never happend![/quote]

Rooyintanjon,

Wonderful insight. I learnt alot from the above post. Please continue your contribution here.
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#12 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 11:22 AM

Yes royinton joon, its very informative :)
sepaas.
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#13 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:47 PM

[quote=Neo Bactra;7339]Rooyintanjon,

Wonderful insight. I learnt alot from the above post. Please continue your contribution here.[/quote]

You're welcome.
here's further info from which available on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia....istan_relations
http://en.wikipedia....urkey_relations
http://en.wikipedia....ussia_relations
http://en.wikipedia....istan_relations
http://en.wikipedia....ship_%281921%29
http://en.wikipedia....%27s_Government
http://en.wikipedia....blic_of_Mahabad
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Tudeh_party
http://en.wikipedia....giers_Agreement
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#14 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:48 PM

[quote=Rostam;7342]Yes royinton joon, its very informative :)
sepaas.[/quote]

You're welcome.
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#15 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 05:25 AM

[quote=rooyintan;7345]You're welcome.
here's further info from which available on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia....istan_relations
http://en.wikipedia....urkey_relations
http://en.wikipedia....ussia_relations
http://en.wikipedia....istan_relations
http://en.wikipedia....ship_%281921%29
http://en.wikipedia....%27s_Government
http://en.wikipedia....blic_of_Mahabad
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Tudeh_party
http://en.wikipedia....giers_Agreement[/quote]

Good stuff. Thanks alot.
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