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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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#21 User is offline   Irane bozorg Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 05:55 AM

dorood khaheshan parsi benevisid
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#22 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 07:30 AM

[quote=Irane bozorg;7613]dorood khaheshan parsi benevisid[/quote]
Dorood :) khosh amadeed.
Albate shoma metanem...parsi benevisem......ma hame parsi balad astem :) .
Shoma parsi benevisem....bad ma ham ba parsi jawab khaham daad.

as for the languages.....I think we should AVOID using Dari.
If we use different names...for ONE language of ONE nation....that will only bring division!
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#23 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:13 AM

[quote=Neo Bactra;7612]Rika Khana Jan,

Salam/Dorood,

I know where you are coming from. It does make sense. Those two terms have indeed been interchangeably used by the founders of our language, by our literary and spiritual masters. However, I do have some concerns. I believe that in order to strengthen our unity, we do require some uniformity of concepts, uniformity of symbols of those concepts, and uniformity of action. It will serve our purpose the most if there is no ambiguity in the minds of the Tajiks when they promote and present those symbols. Farsi is the biggest symbol of the concept that represents Khorasan. This very word unifies Tajiks within all different political boundaries. Therefore, I strongly believe that there should be no hesitation or inhibition in calling our language with its true literary and politically sound name Farsi. As I am typing these lines, a relevant thought is striking my mind which I will share with you right now:

To keep up with the spirit of the unity of Tajiks, and the required uniformity of concepts and action, will it not be very practical and in our national interest for us to strive to have a uniformity of the spelling of the words "Khorasan" and "Tajik" for purpose of scholarship and research? These words are commonly spelled differently. To non-Tajiks, we will certainly look like one coherent group if we have consistent and unified words to describe us. To Tajiks themselves, it will mentally boost up a sense of cohesion and oneness.

Please do share your thoughts on this.

Wsalam/Pedrood.[/quote]

I do agree with you. Unification of concepts, terms, and vocabulary is badly needed, we have to overcome this serious problem. and the language name is most important of all. Using different terms and vocabulary is causing alot of problems for us in unofficial side. the ordinary people do struggle sometimes when they talk to each other, especially if someone from Afghanistan have never been in touch with someone from Iran, and the same thing can be said about those who come from iran and have never met or not being familiar with someone from afghanistan. it is especially difficult for us to be understood by the iranian friends unless we change our accent. it is a bit annoying, we have to get rid of these issues(i should say accent is never a problem, if we at least try to decide understanding someone). if i tell about a personal experience a few days before, one of the members of my family had a hospital appointment and they didnt allow me to interpret for her because of the hospital policy, they called an iranian lady interpreter ,and the interpreter didnt understandd her, the poor interpreter always ended up asking " Yane Che?" (although the member of the family didnt have any problem, thanks to iranian films, thats why i say boycott indian and watch iranian films). This is totally dangerious, i think we have to think about this issue deeply. In this forum, i think about 30-40 tajik from Afghanistan are participating, and we all think the same(if not 100%, lets say 70%), but the situation in afghanistan itself and among te masses is very different, it is not only pushtoons who call the language dari because of the bad intentions they got, but there are alot of hazaras and tajik as well who call it dari and resist farsi, that is why i insist on using those terms interchangelbly to put in people's mind to think that dari and farsi are the same, once this is done, we can easily change it back to Farsi in official basis, otherwise it will backfire on us.

One thing puzzles me though, if we cant get the language changed from dari to farsi, it is because of our situattion in afghanisan, but what is keeping tajikistan from bringing farsi back? they are free now for 2 decades. i dont get it.
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#24 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:45 AM

''Basi ranj bordan dar in sal si, ajam zende kardam bedin Parsi''

I suffered during these thirty years, but I have revived the Persians (Ajam) with the Persian language; I shall not die since I am alive again, as I have spread the seeds of this language.

Ferdowsi.


So please....our language name is PARSI.......not Farsi (arabich version) or Dari (Afghani fascist version) or Persian (Greec version) or Tajiki (dialect not the language!).
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#25 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:26 AM

Sepas Rika Khana and Rostam,

Rika Jan, I understand that it's quite a challenge these days to make a Tajik from Afghanistan accept that their langauge is Farsi and is no different from Farsi in the other two major countries of the region despite its dialect variations. We have a lot of work to do. It's our moral and intellectual duty to spread the word as Pashtons have immorally taken it upon themselves to separate us from other Farsi speakers by calling our language Dari.

Propoganda will eventually succeed if it is not resisted by facts and evidence, by an equal, if not more, amount of work in it's negation. As Pashtons are already preparing Tajiks to accept Dari as the name of the language through forgery and deception, we should also be emphasizing on the word Farsi with as much force as possible. The more we use the word Dari, the more we will be backing the separatist policies of Pashtons. We can't afford to let Pashtons continue with their propoganda machine while we keep using the two words interchangeably. We can start it with our family, friends, and even with our non-Tajik friends. When speaking to non-Tajikss, we can always use Farsi instead of even Persian. If they dont get it, then we can always translate it with Farsi. It even educates the foreigners that the name of the language is Farsi. You will be surprised to see how quickly they will remember it. Arabs and most South Asians already know the word Farsi. All we need to do is just USE it.

Rostam Arjmand, Arabic is cherished in the households of millions of Tajiks as the language of their Creator. We can't remove Islam from their lives. But we can make it tolerant. Arabic influence, as well as its words, in Farsi doesnt diminsh the richness of our language. It in fact adds to it. It makes it even culturally all-inclusive. So our non-Muslim Tajiks can use its purely Parsi form while our Muslim Tajiks can use its commonly used Farsi form.

Our rich language nourishes Parsi through our "Father Firdawsi" who is the "morale" of the Tajiks and Farsi through Balkhi, Hafiz, Sanai, Saadi, etc., who are our "Spiritual Fathers."

Kamgar Bemanid.
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#26 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:47 AM

[quote=Neo Bactra;7628]Sepas Rika Khana and Rostam,

Rika Jan, I understand that it's quite a challenge these days to make a Tajik from Afghanistan accept that their langauge is Farsi and is no different from Farsi in the other two major countries of the region despite its dialect separate us from other Farsi speakers by calling our language Dari.

Propoganda will eventually succeed if it is not resisted by facts and evidence, by an equal, if not more, amount of work in it's negation. As Pashtons are variations. We have a lot of work to do. It's our moral and intellectual duty to spread the word as Pashtons have immorally taken it upon themselves to already preparing Tajiks to accept Dari as the name of the language through forgery and deception, we should also be emphasizing on the word Farsi with as much force as possible. The more we use the word Dari, the more we will be backing the separatist policies of Pashtons. We can't afford to let Pashtons continue with their propoganda machine while we keep using the two words interchangeably. We can start it with our family, friends, and even with our non-Tajik friends. When speaking to non-Tajikss, we can always use Farsi instead of even Persian. If they dont get it, then we can always translate it with Farsi. It even educates the foreigners that the name of the language is Farsi. You will be surprised to see how quickly they will remember it. Arabs and most South Asians already know the word Farsi. All we need to do is just USE it.

Rostam Arjmand, Arabic is cherished in the households of millions of Tajiks as the language of their Creator. We can't remove Islam from their lives. But we can make it tolerant. Arabic influence, as well as its words, in Farsi doesnt diminsh the richness of our language. It in fact adds to it. It makes it even culturally all-inclusive. So our non-Muslim Tajiks can use its purely Parsi form while our Muslim Tajiks can use it's commonly used Farsi form.

Our rich language nourishes Parsi through our "Father Firdawsi" who is the "morale" of the Tajiks and Farsi through Balkhi, Hafiz, Sanai,Saadi, etc., who are our "Spiritual Fathers."

Kamgar Bemanid.[/quote]

Brother Neo Bactra,

I never dispute all the above with you. I am only choosing a different method to tackle this problem. with the foreigners, we dont have any problem. In my every encounter with these guys i use Farsi or Persian, and at the same time i always make sure to tell them what Tajiki and Dari is, in case they come up with these terms sometime in their life. I also give them the example of American and British English that they are both the same languages with different accents. The problem is not outsiders but insiders, i mean we tajiks. i have had alot of arguments(i always make sure that these argumetns are friendly) with alot of Tajiks who claim these are separate languages. and what is their reason? they simply say: Farsi az Iran ast wa Dari az Afghanistan. What a stupid logic!!!! they dont even know what they are saying. We have to start from our own side, the foreigners will come second. we should always be insisting on gradual, strong and permanat progress instead of revolutionary and short term, we should learn a lesson from the communits in Afghanistan, they wanted everything over the night and they failed. we lost everything over the time, decades and centries. our fathers were in a deep sleep while the russians and pushtoons were trying to destroy our culture and language, it takes time to bring those things back to normal.
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#27 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:02 AM

Rika Khana Arjmand,

I strongly agree with you. It's just a matter of approach. What you have said below bears alot of truth and proven experiences. Sometimes I do blame our fathers for their lack of action against the cultural suppression of the Tajiks. But I also recognize that they did'nt have the proper tools and opportunities which most of us have at our disposal, like the internet and the safe environment of the West. A simple pamphlet or speech in defence of our culture would have cost their lives.

[quote=Rika Khana;7629]Brother Neo Bactra,

I never dispute all the above with you. I am only choosing a different method to tackle this problem. with the foreigners, we dont have any problem. In my every encounter with these guys i use Farsi or Persian, and at the same time i always make sure to tell them what Tajiki and Dari is, in case they come up with these terms sometime in their life. I also give them the example of American and British English that they are both the same languages with different accents. The problem is not outsiders but insiders, i mean we tajiks. i have had alot of arguments(i always make sure that these argumetns are friendly) with alot of Tajiks who claim these are separate languages. and what is their reason? they simply say: Farsi az Iran ast wa Dari az Afghanistan. What a stupid logic!!!! they dont even know what they are saying. We have to start from our own side, the foreigners will come second. we should always be insisting on gradual, strong and permanat progress instead of revolutionary and short term, we should learn a lesson from the communits in Afghanistan, they wanted everything over the night and they failed. we lost everything over the time, decades and centries. our fathers were in a deep sleep while the russians and pushtoons were trying to destroy our culture and language, it takes time to bring those things back to normal.[/quote]
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#28 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:17 AM

[quote=Neo Bactra;7630]Rika Khana Arjmand,

I strongly agree with you. It's just a matter of approach. What you have said below bears alot of truth and proven experiences. Sometimes I do blame our fathers for their lack of action against the cultural suppression of the Tajiks. But I also recognize that they did'nt have the proper tools and opportunities which most of us have at our disposal, like the internet and the safe environment of the West. A simple pamphlet or speech in defence of our culture would have cost their lives.[/quote]

Brother, Yes, they didnt have the opportunities, and tools, but at the same time, they didnt have the motivation and committment as well. anyways, instead of moaning about the past we have to do something for the future, otherwise our kids will never forgive us what we will give them. You were quiet right in your previoius post to start everything from your family. i have taken every single step to bring pure Farsi/Tajik culture and language back to my houshold. I dont and never hate any other ethnic group although their(i mean pushtoons, if i be specific) rulers have done alot of bad things against us. hate is not the answer for our problems, instead of hate we have to patiently work among ourselves to start walking in the right direction, in this case will be the winner.

We have to always write in Farsi, unfortuantely it is always English and not farsi we are using on the internet, i opened a thread solely for farsi use, but it didnt get much attention. We have to import alot of Farsi books from iran and give them to the libraries, that is an effective tool to tell everyone that we are one people and got the same language it will also remove alot barriers between farsi our afghanistan and farsi of iran, and there are alot of other things on personal basis if we do them, their impact will be greater than we think. :rolleyes:
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#29 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 11:00 AM

Well said Rika and Bectrian :)

conclusion: Use always Parsi and avoid Dari, Tajiki or else.
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#30 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 11:35 AM

[RIGHT] ??? ? ??? ? ??? ??

??? ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???. ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? - ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? . ??? ? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? 1995 ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?. ??? ? ??? ? ??? ?
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#31 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 11:58 AM

[quote=Darius;7634]
??? ? ??? ? ??? ??

??? ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???. ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? - ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? . ??? ? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? 1995 ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?. ??? ? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??.

?? ??? 1989 ?? 1993 ??? ??? ? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? " ??? ??? ( ??? ??)" ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ?? ? ??? ??? ??? . ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? " ??? ???" ??? . ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ? ?? ??? ?? ??? . ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? .

??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ??. ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?. ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?. ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ? ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?. ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??. ??? ? ? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ???. ??? ??? ???
[/quote]

Dear brother Daruis Jan

Please do forgive me because of English reply to your beauiful Farsi post. I am not at home at the moment and my computer at work does not support Farsi Alphabet.

I should also emphasize that i am proposing a different and a bit more permanant approach rather than opposing Farsi in favour of Dari. I had this problem of Dari and Farsi with my school friends(in pakistan), ironically they were all Tajiks, mostly from Punjshir and Badakhshan. Our problem is not with the Pushtoon right now, let them call the language whatever they want, it is not their language and doesnt matter anymore, we got internal problems with our own Tajiks and Hazaras. Unless we convince them to accept that farsi and are the same and it is recommended to use Farsi instead of Dari, we wont have any success. We have to get their minds ready to accommodate farsi. otherwise we will end up fighting each other and Pushtoo will watch us and laughing, that is what makes me concerned. we have to find a collective direction instead of walking in different directions with no aims and like headless chicken. Off course it takes time, and alot of effort.
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#32 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:39 PM

Quote

we got internal problems

Yeah...who are the cause of those internal problems? :rolleyes:
Who have...''invented and created'' Dari as new language?...... :rolleyes:
Who brought division amongst us....? :rolleyes:

But I got your point Rika Khana gerami....I know what you mean...
first we have to solve the internal problems as well!
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#33 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:57 PM

[quote=Irane bozorg;7613]dorood khaheshan parsi benevisid[/quote]

Dorud Irane Borozge gerami,

Sad darsad ba to movafeqam.
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#34 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:02 PM

[quote=Rostam;7641]Yeah...who are the cause of those internal problems? :rolleyes:
Who have...''invented and created'' Dari as new language?...... :rolleyes:
Who brought division amongst us....? :rolleyes:

But I got your point Rika Khana gerami....I know what you mean...
first we have to solve the internal problems as well![/quote]

Rostam jane Muhtaram,

There are several reasons for the internal problems:

1-We have got committed enemies who are trying to undermine us by all means, economically, in terms of demography, culture, language whatever you can think of, and in Afghanistan it is Pushtoons, you know , i know and alot of other people do, the weak tajiks can be good and soft target for them.

2-We tajiks are not motivated enough and committed enough, what is the reason for this issue? A-We are scared. B-We are too good. C-Lack of self respect and care about our identity(this one is very dangerous).

3-I sometimes wonder what kept our enemies from changing the term Tajik and put another name on us. They could have easily done it without a single reacion from us, as they did it to our language etc. Thanks god it didnt happen.

4-We are good listeners, we are always listen and do what the others tell us. I know a very educated librarian in Pakistan(he was from kabul) who was claiming that although nadir, zahir and dawod were pushtoons, but they did alot of good to Farsi,now what can you do with these cathegory of people.

Trust me, it is very very important to get our own heads toghether and all of us think the same, otherwise we'll be beaten in battlefield. It doesnt come up over the night and we have to work hard. Publish as many as good books we can, help each other, our researchers and cultural people must do alot in practice to make people aware of what they have got. We have to strenghten our aliance with other ethnic groups especially hazaras who are also farsi speakers and also uzbeks in afghanistan, if we back them in every issue, and they back us, i should say that we all will be the winner, both hazaras and uzbeks and tajiks. we should also avoid complaing about the passive tajiks, we have to do something about it without forcing ourselves on them. Patience , precise planning will always work, panicking and being uncessarily frustrated will not be helpful.
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#35 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 04:29 PM

.......................
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#36 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 04:31 PM

What about writing a book.

A book which should have as subject: Crimes commited against the Persians/Tajiks.
I think...we can write hunderd of pages.

There is actually no such book ...it would be great if we can write one.
All crimes should be included....from pre-historie....till present.

*Greek interfrences and wars
*Turkish/Ottoman interfences
*Arab invasion and interfrences
*Irak invasion and war
*British interfrences
*Russian influences
*Afghan crimes

*All other attacks on language, history (falsify of history), nation etc.
*Collaborateurs and ignorance of Persian massas
*A view at the future


Edit: sorry I wanted to create new topic, but went wrong.
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#37 User is offline   Nastoh Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 06:03 PM

[quote=Daud Akbar Khan Tajik;7484]But I am a very Patriotic Pakistani, I love my country very much and also proud of being a Tajik.

Regards,
DAK-T[/quote]
Patriotic Pakistanis have killed millions of Tajiks in Afghanistan. A patriotic Pakistani cannot be a true Tajik.
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#38 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 06:11 PM

[quote=Nastoh;7649]Patriotic Pakistanis have killed millions of Tajiks in Afghanistan. A patriotic Pakistani cannot be a true Tajik.[/quote]
Thats true...but they were afghans/pashtuns!
I think...DAK-T jaan means...that he is just loyal to the country where he lives, I dont say thats correct....I let that to be discussed!

btw: Nastoh gerami...I was thinkin about you last days...missed you man!
I hope you are veryy fine and well....and good to have heard somethin from you! ;)
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Posted 17 March 2008 - 07:28 PM

Dear Daud Akbar Khan Tajik,

We are very pleased to have you here in the community, and we are looking forward to meeting more Tajiks from Pakistan. Please convey our deepest regards to our Tajiks in Pakistan, and assure them that one day we will be back together as the great Nation, once we are united!

Enjoy your stay,

Superior
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Posted 18 March 2008 - 01:26 AM

My Dear brother Dawud Khan Tajik Salam !

It was nice to read your informative and valuable post. I beleive and history supports that there were large pockets of Tajiks living in areas belonging to present day Pakistan. Your native language (i.e. Farsi /Dari) until recently was the official langauge of the Sub Coninient. When Pakistan was formed there was a proposal that Farsi should be the official labguage of the country but then the decision was in favour of Urdu to attract Muslims of India towards Pakistan. For an Urdu speaker it is very easy to learn Farsi. I praise your proposal for the Pakistani Tajiks to revive their native Farsi language.
I realy respect your sentiment of being a proud Pakistani. In fact it is valuable for us to have people like you in that great country. We Tajiks of Afghanistan have no problem with the people of Pakistan. The Pakistani establishment supported our enemies due to their misconceptions and due to high influence of Pakhtuns in military and Pakistani seceret services. They did that to promote Pashtuns agenda in Afghanistan which in the long run was not and is not in the interest of Pakistan. In reality a Tajik lead government in Afghanistan is not in favour of partition or destablization of Pakistan. We dont want Pakhtunistan and " Great Afghanistan". It is the desire of Pashtuns to claim part of Pakistan. In fact Pashtuns are working for destruction of Pakistan not us.
If you could read and undersatnd Farsi you would have a wonderful life by reaching to the the rich historic and cutural heritage of your forefathers. I am very glad to had a chat with you and will continue with you in the future.

God bless all Tajiks of the world
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