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The Axed Persian Identity Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 02:24 AM

tajikistanweb.com

The foreign ministers of Tajikistan, Iran and Afghanistan have gathered in Dushanbe for a two-day meeting to exchange their views on political issues, cultural and scientific cooperation and the ways of widening collaboration in the field of joint projects between the three Persian-speaking countries, news agencies reported. Although some regional variation of the countries common language has been officially recognized (Tajiki, Farsi, Dari), still referring to the troika as the Persian-speaking states is commonplace. The reason is quite simple: in spite of enormous efforts by certain political movements to divide Persian-speakers into separate linguistic communities the language remains mutually intelligible for all three countries. Unlike at Turkic-speaking gatherings no interpreters are hired for Persian-speaking meetings. The following article explores the reasons of the artificial division between the three dialects of the same language.

More:
http://tajikistanweb...ersianaxed.html
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#2 User is offline   Neo Bactra Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:13 AM

[quote=Darius;7914]tajikistanweb.com

The foreign ministers of Tajikistan, Iran and Afghanistan have gathered in Dushanbe for a two-day meeting to exchange their views on political issues, cultural and scientific cooperation and the ways of widening collaboration in the field of joint projects between the three Persian-speaking countries, news agencies reported. Although some regional variation of the countries common language has been officially recognized (Tajiki, Farsi, Dari), still referring to the troika as the Persian-speaking states is commonplace. The reason is quite simple: in spite of enormous efforts by certain political movements to divide Persian-speakers into separate linguistic communities the language remains mutually intelligible for all three countries. Unlike at Turkic-speaking gatherings no interpreters are hired for Persian-speaking meetings. The following article explores the reasons of the artificial division between the three dialects of the same language.

More:
http://tajikistanweb...ersianaxed.html[/quote]


Dear Darius,

The weblink above is a superb peice of information on the politics of dividing Farsi among Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and Iran. I found that very educative. One can recognize the depth of the cultural enemity of the Soviets by reading that article.

Thanks for you bringing that to us here. Farsi is the name of our language, no matter how hard the evil forces will try to change it.

Mofaq bemanid.
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#3 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:21 AM

[quote=Darius;7914]tajikistanweb.com

The foreign ministers of Tajikistan, Iran and Afghanistan have gathered in Dushanbe for a two-day meeting to exchange their views on political issues, cultural and scientific cooperation and the ways of widening collaboration in the field of joint projects between the three Persian-speaking countries, news agencies reported. Although some regional variation of the countries common language has been officially recognized (Tajiki, Farsi, Dari), still referring to the troika as the Persian-speaking states is commonplace. The reason is quite simple: in spite of enormous efforts by certain political movements to divide Persian-speakers into separate linguistic communities the language remains mutually intelligible for all three countries. Unlike at Turkic-speaking gatherings no interpreters are hired for Persian-speaking meetings. The following article explores the reasons of the artificial division between the three dialects of the same language.

More:
http://tajikistanweb...ersianaxed.html[/quote]

Thanks for the share. but i dont agree with one point of the article as saying 3 different dialects, there is no dialect in farsi, but differeren accents.
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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:34 PM

Dear Neo Bactra and Riika Khana,

Thank you very much for your feedback.

I will try to accomodate Rikha Khana's point in its second part.

All the best
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#5 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:57 PM

And one more thing, I would like to suggest to use Parsi (or Paarsi) instead of Farsi. - cheers.
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Posted 25 March 2008 - 02:40 PM

[quote=PORS;7932]And one more thing, I would like to suggest to use Parsi (or Paarsi) instead of Farsi. - cheers.[/quote]

Yes, Pors-jan, I agree. But in English the term is 'Persian'. 'Farsi' is used only as the official name of the language in certain periods and countries. Many thanks.
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#7 User is offline   Tehran Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 04:10 PM

[quote=Rika Khana;7926]Thanks for the share. but i dont agree with one point of the article as saying 3 different dialects, there is no dialect in farsi, but differeren accents.[/quote]

that is very true, for example Luri, Gilaki, mazandarani and Kermanshahi are Dialects ( languages which are extremely close to persian but only partially intelligble) but the difference between "Tajiki" or "Dari" and persian is akin to the accent difference between Tehran persian and Esphehan Persian; by that standard iran would have one "dialect" of persian for EVERY city.
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Posted 25 March 2008 - 04:14 PM

[quote=PORS;7932]And one more thing, I would like to suggest to use Parsi (or Paarsi) instead of Farsi. - cheers.[/quote]

that is also true,

the arab invadors lacked the sound "p" :Dand hence replaced the "p" in parsi with "f" and led to the incorrect term "farsi"


i remember watching Dubai tv back in iran over the summer and they called the "asian cup" --> "asian cus" :P
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#9 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 05:52 PM

Dorood Tehran jane gerami:

Thanks for comment and funny experience. :) But do they understand each other, and/or programs when they replace letters, i.e asian cup with asian... :) ? That's very interesting. I also noticed from a program when narrator said "short bath" instead of "short path". That took me almost an hour to figure out what he was talking about. That was hilarious. So, I wonder, do other arabs understand each other when they replace letters and say "bath" instead of "path"; "bar" from "par"? I guess, they also can't say "Pedrood" and instead say "Bedrood" or is the authentic words itself "bedrood"? Does anyone know?

Pedrood,



Pors.

[quote=Tehran;7937]that is also true,

the arab invadors lacked the sound "p" :Dand hence replaced the "p" in parsi with "f" and led to the incorrect term "farsi"


i remember watching Dubai tv back in iran over the summer and they called the "asian cup" --> "asian cus" :P [/quote]
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Posted 25 March 2008 - 06:04 PM

Dear Pors,

If you mean the original shape of the word, it was "padrud" in Pahlavi (Sassanian Persian). "Pad-" is a preposition in Pahlavi that changed to "ba-" in classic New Persian and "be-" in Qajari Persian in use in nowadays Iran. The preposition is pronounced as "bed-" in a couple of words, like "bed-in gune", "bed-an su" that indicates to the original Pahlavi "pad-". For instance, "be name Xoda" in Pahlavi sounds like "Pad naami Ahuraa Mazdaa".

Even now in literary Persian of Tajikistan the word is written and pronounced "padrud".

[quote=PORS;7938]Dorood Tehran jane gerami:

Thanks for comment and funny experience. :) But do they understand each other, and/or programs when they replace letters, i.e asian cup with asian... :) ? That's very interesting. I also noticed from a program when narrator said "short bath" instead of "short path". That took me almost an hour to figure out what he was talking about. That was hilarious. So, I wonder, do other arabs understand each other when they replace letters and say "bath" instead of "path"; "bar" from "par"? I guess, they also can't say "Pedrood" and instead say "Bedrood" or is the authentic words itself "bedrood"? Does anyone know?

Pedrood,



Pors.[/quote]
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Posted 25 March 2008 - 06:09 PM

[quote=Tehran;7937]that is also true,

the arab invadors lacked the sound "p" :Dand hence replaced the "p" in parsi with "f" and led to the incorrect term "farsi"


i remember watching Dubai tv back in iran over the summer and they called the "asian cup" --> "asian cus" :P [/quote]

It's absolutely true, but in pieces written in scholarly manner the original version of the word is regarded, especially if you refer to the official name of a language. For instance, one can't say "the language of Afghanistan was renamed from "Parsi" to "Dari" in 1964." Because the official name of the language at the time according to the Constitution was "Farsi", not "Parsi". In the same way the artificial word of "tajiki" is used in the text. By no means it implies that it should remain like this. I hope you got the purpose of the write-up. Cheers.
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#12 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 06:22 PM

Dorood Dariuse arjmand:

Besyar seepas barae pasokhe shoma. Ham chonin chande porsesh daram:

1) Shoma gofted, keh peshayendeh "pAd" zi Pahlavist va an az "pAd" ba "ba" digar shodevo az Qajar en zaman ba "be" digargon shoda. Mekhastam bidonam, keh ajdade Qajar beshtar ba arabi mayl va khosh dasht, ya keh Parsi? Zaman o seyasate Qajar ra ba do bandvijeha che gone metavan goft?

2) Ajib ast, keh "Dorud" yo "Dorood" va "Pedrud" yo "Pedrood", har do pas vijei "rood" yo "rud"-ra darast. Aya chi bodane "rood"-ra medoned? Man vijei "Dorood"-ra medonam, vale rishei khode pas vijei "rood"-ra namedonam.

Kheile seepasgozar meshodam, agar metavanisted dar in do band kame sharh medaded. Besyar seepas.


Tandorost o perooz bemaned,




Pors.


[quote=Darius;7939]Dear Pors,

If you mean the original shape of the word, it was "padrud" in Pahlavi (Sassanian Persian). "Pad-" is a preposition in Pahlavi that changed to "ba-" in classic New Persian and "be-" in Qajari Persian in use in nowadays Iran. The preposition is pronounced as "bed-" in a couple of words, like "bed-in gune", "bed-an su" that indicates to the original Pahlavi "pad-". For instance, "be name Xoda" in Pahlavi sounds like "Pad naami Ahuraa Mazdaa".

Even now in literary Persian of Tajikistan the word is written and pronounced "padrud".[/quote]
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#13 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 06:59 PM

[quote=Tehran;7937]that is also true,

the arab invadors lacked the sound "p" :Dand hence replaced the "p" in parsi with "f" and led to the incorrect term "farsi"


i remember watching Dubai tv back in iran over the summer and they called the "asian cup" --> "asian cus" :P [/quote]

Woow, LOL. The arabs are very naughty. LOL
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#14 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 07:12 PM

[quote=Tehran;7936]that is very true, for example Luri, Gilaki, mazandarani and Kermanshahi are Dialects ( languages which are extremely close to persian but only partially intelligble) but the difference between "Tajiki" or "Dari" and persian is akin to the accent difference between Tehran persian and Esphehan Persian; by that standard iran would have one "dialect" of persian for EVERY city.[/quote]

??? ?? ??? ??? ??

?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ? ??? ?? ??? ??. ??? ? ??? ? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ??

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#15 User is offline   Tehran Icon

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 12:55 AM

[quote=Rika Khana;7946] ??? ?? ??? ??? ??

?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ? ??? ?? ??? ??. ??? ? ??? ? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ??
[/quote]

dorost mifarmayin,

there are some problems in comprehension but they are very minor and the differences are limited mostly to pronunciation rather than vocabulary or structural differences.

nevertheless, the differences are far too small to make these languages dialects

the terms "farsi", "dari" and "Tajiki" make the matter very confusing. Embarrasingly until a few years ago i used to think that the afghans who spoke persian in iran were people who had learned farsi as thier second languages :o

when i asked them what they spoke (most of them) responded "hazaragi" and i used to think that hazaragi was a seperate language!!!

i think most iranians are ignorant about this as well
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Posted 26 March 2008 - 01:38 AM

Porse gerami,

1. Manzuram az Qajari dowreye hokumate selseleye Qajar bud - zamani ke paytaxte Iran dar Tehran mostaqar shod. Guyeshe Tehrani ham az dirbaz vojud dashte, amma ta an zaman payeye zabane me'yar ra shekl nemidad. Amma az zamani ke Tehran paytaxt shod, in guyesh ba vajegan va shiveye talaffoze xodesh be zabane me'yar nofuze ajibi kard. Dar natije, "ba-" tabdil be "be-" shod, chon "h-ye gheyremalfuz" dar payane vazheha (afsanaH, xanaH) dar Tehrani ham talaffoz nemishod, amma bishtar sedaye "e"-ra midad, ta "a" (afsane, xane). Shomari az pazhuheshgaran bar in bavarand ke digardisi ya tafavothaye parsiye tehrani dar talaffoz risheye torki darad. Amma na torkhaye Torkiye va na azariha hich kodam sedaye "e"-ye payane vazhe ra mesle parsiye Tehrani ada nemikonand. Az in ru man fekr mikonam in az vizhegihaye guyeshe Tehran bude ast.

2) Dar mowrede vazheye "dorud" an che shenidam in ast ke an az "drauda"-ye bastan miayad be ma'niye anushe vo afiyat ke xod be xod danandegane zabane rusi ra motavajjehe shabahate an be vazheye "zdravstvuy"-i rusi mikonad ba hamin ma'na. Padrud (bedrud) be zaher kutahshodeye "pad dorud" (ba dorud, be dorud = be salamati) ast.

Bedrud duste gerami,
D

[quote=PORS;7941]Dorood Dariuse arjmand:

Besyar seepas barae pasokhe shoma. Ham chonin chande porsesh daram:

1) Shoma gofted, keh peshayendeh "pAd" zi Pahlavist va an az "pAd" ba "ba" digar shodevo az Qajar en zaman ba "be" digargon shoda. Mekhastam bidonam, keh ajdade Qajar beshtar ba arabi mayl va khosh dasht, ya keh Parsi? Zaman o seyasate Qajar ra ba do bandvijeha che gone metavan goft?

2) Ajib ast, keh "Dorud" yo "Dorood" va "Pedrud" yo "Pedrood", har do pas vijei "rood" yo "rud"-ra darast. Aya chi bodane "rood"-ra medoned? Man vijei "Dorood"-ra medonam, vale rishei khode pas vijei "rood"-ra namedonam.

Kheile seepasgozar meshodam, agar metavanisted dar in do band kame sharh medaded. Besyar seepas.


Tandorost o perooz bemaned,




Pors.[/quote]
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Posted 26 March 2008 - 05:32 AM

It seems to be a very taily tale:)

Below is the second part of it. I think 3 parts will do for now.

http://tajikistanweb...0308_axed2.html
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Posted 26 March 2008 - 07:46 AM

[quote=Tehran;7949]
the terms "farsi", "dari" and "Tajiki" make the matter very confusing. Embarrasingly until a few years ago i used to think that the afghans who spoke persian in iran were people who had learned farsi as thier second languages :o

when i asked them what they spoke (most of them) responded "hazaragi" and i used to think that hazaragi was a seperate language!!!

i think most iranians are ignorant about this as well[/quote]

It has been my personal experience that people asked me where i learned farsi. but anyways i am glad that now some people know the truth.
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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:46 PM

Does anybody know Nushin Arbabzadah? I wanna talk to her/him. S/he has to explain the following:
http://www.asiamedia...?parentid=89428
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Posted 27 March 2008 - 03:51 AM

No explanation is necessary !
Her name says it all:
Arabzadah...
(the extra 'b' was meant to confuse you :P )

A number of flaws in her 'logic":
1) using more Persian vs. Arabic words ... is bad !
2) secular = Western, islamic = Asian (Omar Khayyam was western ?)
3) getting Visas from the US as islamic thugs = secular is bad
4) one trader says money goes to Afghans = proof that all Iranians are racist

She is a good apologist for feeble Arab and Pashtoon minds ... but she is playing on emotions of people to push her anti-Persian agenda.

[quote=Darius;7965]Does anybody know Nushin Arbabzadah? I wanna talk to her/him. S/he has to explain the following:
http://www.asiamedia...?parentid=89428[/quote]
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