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Darwin -evolution- so where did we come from? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 08:35 AM

Hi everybody,

I was just curious to know everybody's opinion on Darwin's theory of evolution. I understand that most people here have deep religious beliefs and I want to be clear that I do not have any intentions to hurt those feelings.

My questions are:
1) What's your perspective on theory of evolution, particularly "natural selection"?
2) Based on what fact or facts you know Earth is certain age and when people came into existence?
3) What flaws do you see in the theory of evolution?

I think there will be more questions and clarifications as we start talking about it. If you don't feel comfortable with any particular questions, just pass it.

Thanks,




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#2 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 09:56 AM

Hi dear all,

The theory of evolution by Darwin is the most rational theory about humans that exist up to the momet. What about other hypothesises - creationism (human was created by a supernational power - God), and the other theory that states that humans are from the seeds of high civilised creatures that visited our planit a long time ago.

All the best
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#3 User is offline   Dushanbe Icon

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:00 AM

I think it is important for peopel to have a reasonable explanation about how we are the ones that we are. And now fear on the path of discussing these thing openely.
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Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:04 AM

Dorood Dushanbe,

Do you know more than you have been taught in school? I mean other than it is rational and that humans were once developed from one cell species?
You said "And now fear on the path of discussing these things openly", what did you mean?

Seepas for your brief response though.



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#5 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:27 AM

My undeducated hunches and wild speculations:
1) I doubt natural selection is alone responsible for creation of entirely new species. Something else must be at work, but we have not found the explanation yet, instead scientists put their entire faith in random mutations, which is a kind of faith, like Islam or some other religious belief ...
2) I don't know about earth's age, but I know that our human species is very very recent - 100,000 years old if I remember correctly for Homo Sapiens. Of course, there were Neanderthals and other hominids but not modern man before that. I would not be surprised if some aliens from other planets are manipulating genes and experimenting with hominids (or have been). You might even think that planet Mars lost its atmosphere 100,000 years ago, and a few inhabitants fled to earth in their spaceships and killed all neanderthals (it does not make sense ... i know ... just having fun).
3) Theory is just that ... theory. Based on some observations they are trying to make it a theory of everything, which it is not. I can't believe randomness can create all this enormous intelligent design of so many species and the roles of genes are not well understood at this time - junk DNA is most of our DNA - they call it junk because it does not encode proteins (or something like that). No one explained yet how genes and DNA codes create the form of our body externally and internally (placement of organs, development of individual cells into cells for eyes, kidneys, so on). Rupert Sheldrake believes that morphogenetic fields are responsible ...

Bottom line: don't believe everything scientists say. They have little clue and try to appear as if they know everything - I mean the average ones. Of course, eminent scientists are much more candid about the lack of knowledge we have today. Putting your faith in Darwinism as the ultimate explanation is like putting your faith in a religion - but it is a start ... let's not take it too seriously as a theory of everything.

I write quickly and do not proofread due to lack of time ... I hope I was able to make a few points.
[QUOTE=PORS;8729]Hi everybody,

I was just curious to know everybody's opinion on Darwin's theory of evolution. I understand that most people here have deep religious beliefs and I want to be clear that I do not have any intentions to hurt those feelings.

My questions are:
1) What's your perspective on theory of evolution, particularly "natural selection"?
2) Based on what fact or facts you know Earth is certain age and when people came into existence?
3) What flaws do you see in the theory of evolution?

I think there will be more questions and clarifications as we start talking about it. If you don't feel comfortable with any particular questions, just pass it.

Thanks,




Pors.[/QUOTE]
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#6 User is offline   Faridun Icon

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:09 PM

I am not good in biology and something like that. But I am interested in phylosofical conclusion which can be made from Darwin`s theory. To cut it short, I want to say that according to this theory there rules in animal`s world the "struggle for surviving". the strongest can prevail and survive. thus it can develop. The weakest`s fate is just a pathetic death. As human beings emerged from animals due to their particular capabilities, They are also strictly influenced by the law "struggle for surviving". Human beings are split into many nations. Every nation is entitled to struggle for getting higher position. But such kind of "legal value" cannot be gained unless killing and torturing and oppressing other nations.
That`s why I cannot accept such an unhumane conclusion. It will release people from any morality, universal humane values and enable them hate and despise each other as their ancestors-animals do.

If you have any idea, just share with me. I am ready to hear.
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#7 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 01:54 AM

Actually, animals do not hate each other ... they just each other sometimes when they are hungry :D well, i mean for their survival only ... very few animals are truly vicious (I heard only of pitbulls who are bred by humans)

Humans are a step back in evolution compared to animals since they do so much harm to each other ... probably something went wrong and humans are totally flawed creatures ... i think if all human beings vaporized overnight the earth would be a much better place

So maybe it should be the theory of devolution when it comes to humans
[QUOTE=Faridun;8791]
That`s why I cannot accept such an unhumane conclusion. It will release people from any morality, universal humane values and enable them hate and despise each other as their ancestors-animals do.

If you have any idea, just share with me. I am ready to hear.[/QUOTE]
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Posted 09 May 2008 - 09:20 PM

Fariduni arjmand,

Thanks for share first. Secondly, because Darwin's wife and sisters were religious people, Darwin kept his theory for a while until he received Wallace's letter about Natural Selection which forced him to accelerate publication of his book. In any sense, due to the fact that he had religious family, he constrained from talking about relationship of origins of man and origin of species. That's why Darwin, himself many times mentions that he does not have to do anything with origins of man. He mainly talks about the "survival of the fittest" which does not necessarily mean strongest. Strongest can also die relatively. But fittest will prevail. This is Darwinism that asserts that origin of man can be explained by means of natural selection and survival of the fittest in a long run.

You said you can't accept evolution because of inhumane conclusion, but do you have any other reason for rejecting this theory? Please don't get me wrong, just being curious about our knowledge of evolution theory. I am not Darwinian, but rather skeptic.

Thanks,



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#9 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 09:22 PM

Nader Shah, here is a new theory about origins of man - "monkey with pig" LOL :)

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
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#10 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 07:56 AM

Here is another theory for PORS:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=W16XREGiQ-U
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#11 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 08:01 AM

And another
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rBqmnNsCtFM
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#12 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 08:09 AM

Seems related - interesting facts:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=XKjv9m_EE64

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;8838]And another
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rBqmnNsCtFM[/QUOTE]
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#13 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 08:19 AM

Hmm ... article about this guy on Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Pye

Never heard of him before - thanks to PORS I was motivated to find alternate theories such as the monkey-pig hybrid ... but this one is much more interesting and makes me wonder ... (I sympathize with these alternative views but do not accept them ... everything has to be explained and makes sense .... but new fresh way of looking at things are needed to wake up some of the Darwin-worshippers)
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#14 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 10:13 AM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;8797]

Humans are a step back in evolution compared to animals since they do so much harm to each other ... probably something went wrong and humans are totally flawed creatures ... i think if all human beings vaporized overnight the earth would be a much better place

So maybe it should be the theory of devolution when it comes to humans[/QUOTE]

When something went wrong with evolution, this comment made me remember about "Planet of Apes". I really liked those movies ;-) still haven't seen all of them.

here's info about these movies for those who haven't heard of them or seen them:
http://en.wikipedia....net_of_the_Apes

As for Darwin's evolution theory, well I think it could be true. I think all primates are somehow related to one another, so yeah evolution through the ladders Africanus->Erectus->Neanderthal->Sapiens could be true.
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:13 PM

Dorood Nader Shahe gerami:

Feel free to be FREE THINKING MAN. You can have even your own theory, based on what you see, hear, learn, and experience. You rationally based and critically developed theory is the best theory that will guide you prosperously all your life. Included your HIGHLY and STRONGLY created SPIRITUALISM will give it all kinds of life flavor. :) (by "you" I mean myself - so please don't get me wrong).

PS: I found Lloyd Pye interesting, although I knew about him little bit. Thanks for share.

Hamesha shokufan bashed,



Pors.

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;8840]Hmm ... article about this guy on Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Pye

Never heard of him before - thanks to PORS I was motivated to find alternate theories such as the monkey-pig hybrid ... but this one is much more interesting and makes me wonder ... (I sympathize with these alternative views but do not accept them ... everything has to be explained and makes sense .... but new fresh way of looking at things are needed to wake up some of the Darwin-worshippers)[/QUOTE]
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