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Tajiks need Russian labour market more than any other Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:40 AM

http://tajikistan.ne...more-than-iran/

I don't blame them. I think once Iran set priorities right and support fellow persians, then Tajiks would get their priorities right too but then again in Iran Azerbaijanis are in power, once Persians replace Azerbaijani in powerful and influencial posts then priorities will be set right.
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#2 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:52 AM

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8869]http://tajikistan.ne...more-than-iran/

I don't blame them. I think once Iran set priorities right and support fellow persians, then Tajiks would get their priorities right too but then again in Iran Azerbaijanis are in power, once Persians replace Azerbaijani in powerful and influencial posts then priorities will be set right.[/QUOTE]

the azaris are the dominant politicians?
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#3 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:57 AM

Yeah, I have the same question - how strong is the evidence that Azeris are controlling Iran and trying to destroy it from within ? let's bring out the evidence if it is really there - I am not convinced, but I agree that one could think so --- I wonder why they suppress Azeris in Iran if Azeris are in power ? I have the feeling Shia Islam (which Azeris promoted during Safavis and spread across Iran) and Arab-worship mentality of mullahs (who study Arabic day and night and read their dirty Koran in Arabic day and night have come to consider Arabs the same way Shah considered Europeans as the master race) ...
[QUOTE=rooyintan;8869]http://tajikistan.ne...more-than-iran/

I don't blame them. I think once Iran set priorities right and support fellow persians, then Tajiks would get their priorities right too but then again in Iran Azerbaijanis are in power, once Persians replace Azerbaijani in powerful and influencial posts then priorities will be set right.[/QUOTE]
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#4 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 10:06 AM

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;8870]the azaris are the dominant politicians?[/QUOTE]

ofcourse! Khamenei is Mashhad born of Azeri heritage, Ahmadinejad is of Azeri heritage, former president Khatami born in Ardakan but of Azeri heritage, former politicians such as Mousavi, Mousavi-Ardabili all Azeris. I can say most of ministers and parliamentary members are of Azeri heritage. Rafsanjani is of Uzbek heritage, Khomeini was of Indian heritage, Shah was of partly Azeri heritage also(his mum was from Nakhchevan), then ofcourse Qajar,Afshar and Safavi dynasties all were Azeri origin too!
So yes since 16th century Iran was ruled by Azeris, only Zand dynasty and Ghilazai were not Azeris ;-)
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#5 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 10:10 AM

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8876]ofcourse! Khamenei is Mashhad born of Azeri heritage, Ahmadinejad is of Azeri heritage, former president Khatami born in Ardakan but of Azeri heritage, former politicians such as Mousavi, Mousavi-Ardabili all Azeris. I can say most of ministers and parliamentary members are of Azeri heritage. Rafsanjani is of Uzbek heritage, Khomeini was of Indian heritage, Shah was of partly Azeri heritage also(his mum was from Nakhchevan), then ofcourse Qajar,Afshar and Safavi dynasties all were Azeri origin too!
So yes since 16th century Iran was ruled by Azeris, only Zand dynasty and Ghilazai were not Azeris ;-)[/QUOTE]

Jesus christ, what is wrong with the persians? they cant rule the land which belongs to them and instead the azaris come and rule them. i heard somewhere that sha was from Rusht and of azari origin. is that true?
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#6 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 10:24 AM

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;8877]Jesus christ, what is wrong with the persians? they cant rule the land which belongs to them and instead the azaris come and rule them. i heard somewhere that sha was from Rusht and of azari origin. is that true?[/QUOTE]

Reza Shah was from Mazandaran province, from a place called Savadkuh, he was a cossack his ancesters immigrated to Mazandaran province from Persia's former territories of Transcaucausia(ie. Azerbaijan, Armenia & Georgia), he married a Nakhchevani woman whose father was also a Cossack officer of her Shah was born.

I myself had a great-grandfather who was an ethnic Azeri from Transcaucasia(Russia at the time). Many Iranians do have Azeri heritage but those who speak the language mostly are pan-Turkists and dislike Persians so they try to destroy it. 25% percent of Iran consider themselves Azeri ethnic, out of the 51% persian ethnic(like me, many do have some azeri heritage). Fath Ali Shah Qajar had some 200 something wives he can be considered the father of Iran, many are his descendants including me.
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 10:28 AM

Based on an opinion poll, 33 percent of those questioned consider Iran as Tajikistan's man strategic partner.

I think that it is good results.
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#8 User is offline   Tehran Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:09 PM

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8869]http://tajikistan.ne...more-than-iran/

I don't blame them. I think once Iran set priorities right and support fellow persians, then Tajiks would get their priorities right too but then again in Iran Azerbaijanis are in power, once Persians replace Azerbaijani in powerful and influencial posts then priorities will be set right.[/QUOTE]

Rooyintan stop spreading BS, my family is azeri but my grandfather was constantly talking to me about persian poets, shahnameh, Hafiz etc. i am afraid this persian nationalism is turning into persian racism :mad:
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:10 PM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;8872]Yeah, I have the same question - how strong is the evidence that Azeris are controlling Iran and trying to destroy it from within ? let's bring out the evidence if it is really there - I am not convinced, but I agree that one could think so --- I wonder why they suppress Azeris in Iran if Azeris are in power ? I have the feeling Shia Islam (which Azeris promoted during Safavis and spread across Iran) and Arab-worship mentality of mullahs (who study Arabic day and night and read their dirty Koran in Arabic day and night have come to consider Arabs the same way Shah considered Europeans as the master race) ...[/QUOTE]

Azeris want to destroy iran? HAHAHAHAHAH
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:12 PM

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8880] Azeri heritage but those who speak the language mostly are pan-Turkists and dislike Persians so they try to destroy it. [/QUOTE]

:eek: there are 3 iranians on this site and i am one of them ROFL
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:13 PM

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;8877]Jesus christ, what is wrong with the persians? they cant rule the land which belongs to them and instead the azaris come and rule them. i heard somewhere that sha was from Rusht and of azari origin. is that true?[/QUOTE]

please dont believe this divisive crap from rooyinton
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#12 User is offline   Tehran Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:23 PM

cool, i gave rooyinton an infraction!!!!!

i didnt know i was a mod!!
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#13 User is offline   arshak Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:31 PM

[QUOTE=Tehran;8891]cool, i gave rooyinton an infraction!!!!!

i didnt know i was a mod!![/QUOTE]

I didn't insult anyone. I am just putting a point about leadership of Iran has been Turk since 16th century. I have not attacked or insulted any of our beloved 25% Azeri population. There were some great patriots such as Sattar Khan, Bagher Khan. If you look at history leaderships(rulers of the country) to some extent did destroy our culture and language by copying from foreigners or replacing certain parts of our culture with foreign.
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:37 PM

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8892]I didn't insult anyone. I am just putting a point about leadership of Iran has been Turk since 16th century. I have not attacked or insulted any of our beloved 25% Azeri population. There were some great patriots such as Sattar Khan, Bagher Khan. If you look at history leaderships(rulers of the country) to some extent did destroy our culture and language by copying from foreigners or replacing certain parts of our culture with foreign.[/QUOTE]

ok w/e, i dont want feel like a foreigner in my own country and i like the persian language :) i want persian to be the only language of iran so i am not going to teach my kids azeri ( its important for national unity of iran)
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#15 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:57 PM

Azeris are not Turks. They are Iranians. Only in Aserbaidschan they speak turkic which is the result of turkification of their language. But their identity on their gens are still iranic and their culture and mentality is very close related with that of Tajiks.

Lets see some academic evidences (http://en.wikipedia....aijani_people):

Azerbaijan is believed to be named after Atropates, a Median satrap (governor) who ruled in Atropatene (modern Iranian Azarbaijan).[24] Atropates is derived from Old Persian roots meaning "protected by fire."[25] Azerbaijan has seen a host of inhabitants and invaders, including Caucasians, Medes, Scythians, Persians, Armenians, Greeks, Romans, Khazars, Arabs, Oghuz, Seljuks, Mongols, and Russians.

In the 11th century A.D. with Seljukid conquests, Oghuz Turkic tribes started moving across the Iranian plateau into the Caucasus and Anatolia. The influx of the Oghuz and other Turkmen tribes was further accentuated by the Mongol invasions,[26]. Here they divided into Ottomans, who were Sunni and settled, and Turkmens or Turcomans, who were nomads and in part Shiite (or rather, Alevi). The latter were to keep the name "Turkmen" or "Turcoman" for a long time: from 13th century onwards they gradually Turkified the Iranian-speaking populations of Azerbaijan, thus creating a new identity based on Shiism and the use of Turkic. These are the people today known as Azeris[27]

Ancient period

Caucasian Albanians are believed to be the earliest inhabitants of the region where modern day Republic of Azerbaijan is located.[24] Early invaders included the Scythians in the ninth century BC.[28] Following the Scythians, the Medes came to dominate the area to the south of the Aras.[24] The Medes forged a vast empire between 900-700 BC, which was integrated into the Achaemenids Empire around 550 BC. During this period, Zoroastrianism spread in the Caucasus and Atropatene. The Achaemenids in turn were defeated by Alexander the Great in 330 BC, but the Median satrap Atropates was allowed to remain in power. Following the decline of the Seleucids in Persia in 247 BC, an Armenian Kingdom exercised control over parts of Caucasian Albania between 190 BC to 387 AD.[29][30] Caucasian Albanians established a kingdom in the first century BC and largely remained independent until the Sassanids made the kingdom a vassal state in 252 AD.[24] Caucasian Albania's ruler, King Urnayr, officially adopted Christianity as the state religion in the fourth century AD, and Albania would remain a Christian state until the 8th century.[31][32] Sassanid control ended with their defeat by Muslim Arabs in 642 AD.[19]

[edit] Medieval period

Muslim Arabs defeated the Sassanids and Byzantines as they marched into the Caucasus region. The Arabs made Caucasian Albania a vassal state after the Christian resistance, led by Prince Javanshir, surrendered in 667.[24] Between the ninth and tenth centuries, Arab authors began to refer to the region between the Kura and Aras rivers as Arran.[24] During this time, Arabs from Basra and Kufa came to Azerbaijan and seized lands that indigenous peoples had abandoned; the Arabs became a land-owning elite.[33] Conversion to Islam was slow as local resistance persisted for centuries and resentment grew as small groups of Arabs began migrating to cities such as Tabriz and Maraghah. This influx sparked a major rebellion in Iranian Azarbaijan from 816837, led by a local Zoroastrian commoner named B?bak.[34] However, despite pockets of continued resistance, the majority of the inhabitants of Azerbaijan converted to Islam. Later on, in the 10th and 11th centuries, Kurdish dynasties of Shaddadid and Rawadid ruled parts of Azerbaijan.

In the middle of the eleventh century, the Seljuq dynasty overthrew Arab rule and established an empire that encompassed most of Southwest Asia. The Seljuk period marked the influx of Oghuz nomads into the region and, thus, the beginning of the turkification of Azerbaijan as the West Oghuz Turkic language supplanted earlier Caucasian and Iranian ones.[28][35]

However, Iranian cultural influence survived extensively, as evidenced by the works of then contemporary writers such as Persian poet Nez?m? Ganjav?. The emerging Turkic identity was chronicled in epic poems or dastans, the oldest being the Book of Dede Korkut, which relate allegorical tales about the early Turks in the Caucasus and Asia Minor.[24] Turkic dominion was interrupted by the Mongols in 1227 and later the Mongols and Tamerlane ruled the region until 1405. Turkic rule returned with the Sunni Qara Qoyunl? (Black Sheep Turkmen) and Aq Qoyunl? (White Sheep Turkmen), who dominated Azerbaijan until the Shi'a Safavids took power in 1501.[33][24]

In many references, Azerbaijanis are designated as a Turkic people, due to their Turkic language.[44][45][46] However, modern-day Azerbaijanis are believed to be primarily the descendants of the Caucasian and Iranic peoples who lived in the areas of the Caucasus and northern Iran, respectively, prior to Turkification. Various historians including Vladimir Minorsky explain how largely Iranian and Caucasian populations became Turkish-speaking:
In the beginning of the 5th/11th century the Ghuzz hordes, first in smaller parties, and then in considerable numbers, under the Seljuqids occupied Azarbaijan. In consequence, the Iranian population of Azarbaijan and the adjacent parts of Transcaucasia became Turkophone while the characteristic features of ?dharb?yj?n? Turkish, such as Persian intonations and disregard of the vocalic harmony, reflect the non-Turkish origin of the Turkicised population."[47]

Thus, centuries of Turkic migration and turkification of the region helped to formulate the modern Azerbaijani ethnic group.

Turkification
Although, "Turkic penetration probably began in the Hunnic era and its aftermath," there is little evidence to indicate, "permanent settlements".[45] The earliest major Turkic incursion began with Mahmud of Ghazni and accelerated during the Seljuk period.[45] The migration of Oghuz Turks from present-day Turkmenistan, which is attested by linguistic similarity, remained high through the Mongol period, as many troops under the Ilkhans were Turkic. By the Safavid period, the Turkification of Azerbaijan continued with the influence of the Kizilbash. The very name Azerbaijan is derived from the pre-Turkic name of the province, Azarbayjan or Adarbayjan, and illustrates a gradual language shift that took place as local place names survived Turkification, albeit in altered form.[48]

Most academics view this migration as the most likely source of a Turkic background, but one that most likely involved the linguistic Turkification of predominantly non-Turkic-speaking indigenous peoples and assimilation of small bands of Turkic tribes.[24][25]

There are cultural connections between Azeris and the wider Oghuz Turk populace; the epic literary work the book of Dede Korkut is a treasured heritage shared through Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Turkey and the Azeri's of Iran. In addition to this, the epic of Koroglu is important in Azeri cultre, and some cultural items such as Alpamysh and mythology of the wolf Ashina may also have something in common with Azerbaijan's culture today[citation needed]. The musical tradition of Ashik/Ozan/Bakshy is popular in Azerbaijan as is the folk music including Trk style mirroring Turkish folk music. Other similarities which may be included are cuisine, dress and traditions

Iranian origin
The Iranian origins of the Azeris likely derive from ancient Iranic tribes, such as the Medes in Iranian Azarbaijan, and Scythian invaders who arrived during the eighth century BCE. It is believed that the Medes mixed with an indigenous population, the Caucasian Mannai, a Northeast Caucasian group related to the Urartians.[49] Ancient written accounts, such as one written by Arab historian Abu al-Hasan Ali ibn al-Husayn al-Masudi(896-956), attest to an Iranian presence in the region:
The Persians are a people whose borders are the Mahat Mountains and Azarbaijan up to Armenia and Aran, and Bayleqan and Darband, and Ray and Tabaristan and Masqat and Shabaran and Jorjan and Abarshahr, and that is Nishabur, and Herat and Marv and other places in land of Khorasan, and Sejistan and Kerman and Fars and Ahvaz...All these lands were once one kingdom with one sovereign and one language...although the language differed slightly. The language, however, is one, in that its letters are written the same way and used the same way in composition. There are, then, different languages such as Pahlavi, Dari, Azari, as well as other Persian languages.

[50]

Scholars see cultural similarities between modern Persians and Azeris as evidence of an ancient Iranian influence.[51] Archaeological evidence indicates that the Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism was prominent throughout the Caucasus before Christianity and Islam and that the influence of various Persian Empires added to the Iranian character of the area.[52] It has also been hypothesized that the population of Iranian Azarbaijan was predominantly Persian-speaking before the Oghuz arrived. This claim is supported by the many figures of Persian literature, such as Qatran Tabrizi, Shams Tabrizi, Nezami, and Khaghani, who wrote in Persian prior to and during the Oghuz migration, as well as by Strabo, Al-Istakhri, and Al-Masudi, who all describe the language of the region as Persian. The claim is mentioned by other medieval historians, such as Al-Muqaddasi.[53][48] Other common Perso-Azeribaijani features include Iranian place names such as Tabriz[54] and the name Azerbaijan itself.

Various sources such as Encyclopaedia Iranica explain how, "The Turkish speakers of Azerbaijan (q.v.) are mainly descended from the earlier Iranian speakers, several pockets of whom still exist in the region."[55] The modern presence of the Iranian Talysh and Tats in Azerbaijan is further evidence of the former Iranian character of the region.[56][57] As a precursor to these modern groups, the ancient Azaris are also hypothesized as ancestors of the modern Azerbaijanis.
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:59 PM

Caucasian origin
According to Encyclopedia Britannica about Azeris in the Republic of Azerbaijan:
The Azerbaijani are of mixed ethnic origin, the oldest element deriving from the indigenous population of eastern Transcaucasia and possibly from the Medians of northern Persia.[58]

The Caucasian origin mostly applies to the Azeris of the Caucasus, most of whom are now inhabitants of the Republic of Azerbaijan. There is evidence that, despite repeated invasions and migrations, aboriginal Caucasians may have been culturally assimilated, first by Iranians and later by the Oghuz. Considerable information has been learned about the Caucasian Albanians including their language, history, early conversion to Christianity, and close ties to the Armenians. Many academics believe that the Udi language, still spoken in Azerbaijan, is a remnant of the Albanians' language.[59][32]

This Caucasian influence extended further south into Iranian Azarbaijan. During the 1st millennium BCE, another Caucasian people, the Mannaeans (Mannai) populated much of Iranian Azarbaijan. Weakened by conflicts with the Assyrians, the Mannaeans are believed to have been conquered and assimilated by the Medes by 590 BCE.[60]

Genetics

Some new genetic studies suggest that recent erosion of human population structure might not be as important as previously thought, and overall genetic structure of human populations may not change with the immigration events and thus in the Azerbaijani case; the Azeris of Azerbaijan republic most of all genetically resemble other Caucasian people like Armenians [61] and people in the Azarbaijan region of Iran to other Iranians [62].

Studies conducted in the Caucasus

A 2003 study found that: "Y-chromosome haplogroups indicate that Indo-European-speaking Armenians and Turkic-speaking Azerbaijanians (of the Republic of Azerbaijan) are genetically more closely related to their geographic neighbors in the Caucasus than to their linguistic neighbors elsewhere."[65] The authors of this study suggest that this indicates a language replacement of indigenous Caucasian peoples. There is evidence of limited genetic admixture derived from Central Asians (specifically Haplogroup H12), notably the Turkmen, that is higher than that of their neighbors, the Georgians and Armenians.[66] MtDNA analysis indicates that the main relationship with Iranians is through a larger West Eurasian group that is secondary to that of the Caucasus, according to a study that did not include Azeris, but Georgians who have clustered with Azeris in other studies.[67] The conclusion from the testing shows that the Caucasian Azeris are a mixed population with relationships, in order of greatest similarity, with the Caucasus, Iranians and Near Easterners, Europeans, and Turkmen. Other genetic analysis of mtDNA and Y-chromosomes indicates that Caucasian populations are genetically intermediate between Europeans and Near Easterners, but that they are more closely related to Near Easterners overall.[65] Another study, conducted in 2003 by the Russian Journal of Genetics, links Iranians in Azerbaijan (the Talysh and Tats) with Turkic Azerbaijanis of the Republic:
the genetic structure of the populations examined with the other Iranian-speaking populations (Persians and Kurds from Iran, Ossetins, and Tajiks) and Azerbaijanis showed that Iranian-speaking populations from Azerbaijan were closer to Azerbaijanis than to Iranian-speaking populations inhabiting other world regions.[68]

Ethnonym

Historically the Turkic speakers[69] of Iranian Azerbaijan and the Caucasus called themselves or were referred to by others as Turks and religious identification prevailed over ethnic identification. When Transacaucasia became part of the Russian empire, Russian authorities, who traditionally called all Turkic people Tatars, called Azeris Aderbeijani/Azerbaijani or Caucasian Tatars to distinguish them from other Turkic people, also called Tatars by Russians.[70] Russian Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary also refers to Azerbaijanis as Aderbeijans in some articles.[71] According to the article Turko-Tatars of the above encyclopedia,
some scholars (Yadrintsev, Kharuzin, Chantre) suggested to change the terminology of some Turko-Tatar people, who somatically dont have much in common with Turks, for instance, to call Aderbaijani Tatars (Iranians by race) Aderbaijans.[72]
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 07:43 PM

Where did you get this poll? Please, share credible source.

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;8881]Based on an opinion poll, 33 percent of those questioned consider Iran as Tajikistan's man strategic partner.

I think that it is good results.[/QUOTE]
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Posted 11 May 2008 - 07:48 PM

It's painful, yet indeed that most Persians of Tajikistan favor Russia rather than Iran. It has long history and lots of events that shaped their thinking, and I am sure you all know that. What I am trying to say is that we have to revive our Persian taste and type of governing that once shook the world. I hope and looking forward that Persians of Tajikistan will wake up and realize their heritage, culture, literature and history.
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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:20 AM

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8892]I didn't insult anyone. I am just putting a point about leadership of Iran has been Turk since 16th century. I have not attacked or insulted any of our beloved 25% Azeri population. There were some great patriots such as Sattar Khan, Bagher Khan. If you look at history leaderships(rulers of the country) to some extent did destroy our culture and language by copying from foreigners or replacing certain parts of our culture with foreign.[/QUOTE]

Just wanted to mention Ahmad Kasravi among the Iranian Azeri patriots. Azeris are an inalienable part of our nation.
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Posted 12 May 2008 - 03:51 AM

[QUOTE=Darius;8921]Just wanted to mention Ahmad Kasravi among the Iranian Azeri patriots. Azeris are an inalienable part of our nation.[/QUOTE]

Dear Parsistani and Darius! I agree with you that azeri of Iran call themselves iranians and patriots for Iran. But azeris of Azerbayjan are panturkists in the fullest sence. I know a lot of azerbayjans who wish about Great Turan and they hate iranians and iranian culture. Even their scientists and scholars lead the war against iranian heritage in turkspeaking countries.
For example, one of the wellknown azerbayjani philosofer - Aydin Alizade published a book in russian last year with the name "Holiday Navruz and islamic doctrine" and spread it in all turkish world including Russia among tatars. In this book he claims that Navruz is a of ancient iaranian pagan tradition and it must not be celebrated by muslims. In Russia this book got highest popularity. In every mosques during collective praying the huge number copies of this books were being sold. But fortunately in one of the regions of Russia - Samara this book seemed suspicious and one of the samarian authority who is engaged in religious matters Ayslu Yunusova applied to the court for banning of spreding the book and asked the court to recognize the book as extremist one which cause religiouse intolerance. Now the case is being heard. Who wins, we dont know.
Aydi Alizade is a prominent philosofer of Azerbayjan. He makes reserches in religions and He is known as antiiranian. He always say that only turks can show the true essence of Islam. And He himself confesses that his mentioned book has got antiiranian character to cleanse islam from iranian elements and thus to weaken iranocentered islam in the world.

For those who know russian please go to this site to observe the court process about the book:

http://umma.islam.ru...124&category=37
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