Tajiks Worldwide Community: Iran Rules by Azeris - Oslonor-Rooyintan Theory - Tajiks Worldwide Community

Jump to content

Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox

Parsistani Icon : (04 January 2016 - 10:02 PM) Someone here?
parwana Icon : (30 April 2014 - 05:21 PM) Posted Image
Parsistani Icon : (22 July 2013 - 04:02 AM) good morning :)
Gul agha Icon : (03 May 2013 - 04:29 PM) Sohrab, Tajikam doesn't only consist of a forum. We have two major sections in this website. One is in Persian which is updated frequently and the other is in Persian (Cyrillic). Additionally, the English page is still running and has a vast amount of information on Tajiks and Persians.
Gul agha Icon : (03 May 2013 - 04:27 PM) http://www.facebook.com/Tajikamsite
Sohrab Icon : (01 May 2013 - 06:31 AM) Tajikam on facebook?
SHA DOKHT Icon : (01 May 2013 - 12:12 AM) Like our page on Facebook: https://www.facebook...541604162529143
Sohrab Icon : (29 March 2013 - 08:31 AM) H again, I thought the site would be closed, but it's still running.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:17 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:16 AM) hellow
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 09:46 AM) hellow
Gabaro_glt Icon : (25 March 2013 - 10:48 AM) Asssssssssalam o Alaikum
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:22 AM) I would like to here something from a tajik brother/sister living in Tajikstan
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:20 AM) I have traced my ancestors migrated from Panj and Balkh ancient
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:19 AM) I am desendant of Sultan behram Gabari Tajik living in GilGit pakistan
Gabaro_glt Icon : (22 March 2013 - 05:17 AM) Salam to all brothers
Parsistani Icon : (01 June 2012 - 10:48 AM) we are on facebook. Tajikam on facebook
Parsistani Icon : (01 June 2012 - 10:47 AM) salam guys.
Azim-khan Icon : (19 May 2012 - 11:19 AM) salom bachaho )
Resize Shouts Area

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Iran Rules by Azeris - Oslonor-Rooyintan Theory Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 11 May 2008 - 11:35 AM

Let's discuss it all in this thread. Rooyintan=R, Oslonor=)

R says:
1) many "persian" iranians are of azeri descent but not pro-Turk (Persian Azeri or PA) - are they anti-Persian or indifferent ?
2) Turk speaking iranian azeris are anti-persian (Turk Azeri or TA)
3) all rulers in islamic republic are PA (raf, khatami, khamenei, musavi, ahmadi) or TA (which ones ?)
4) rulers or islamic republic being either TA or PA act against Persian Persians (PP)

Nadershah asks
1) if no ruler is TA then why are they so anti-Persian since they are all PAs (Khamenei born in Mashad, Ahmadi in Tehran, Khat in Yazd, Raf in Kerman)
2) why is islamic republic so much pro-Armenia and anti-Azerbaijan republic
3) why is Islamic republic not promoting use of Turkish in schools or allowing Iranian Azerbaijan to have autonomy or publish in Azeri

Further O says:
- PA try to create non-Persian Iranian identity so that both PA and TA can feel comfortable in Iran
- PA and TA are moving Azeris to various parts of Iran and suppressing PP in Iran, and ignoring PP outside Iran
- PA and TA are in league with liberals in US and associate with blacks in US
- PA and TA redirect focus of Iran to arab causes in order to divert pwople's attention from Persian nationalism which they are afraid will create a PP identity for Iranians which may excluded PA and TAs
- etc


That's it for now ... I will add more later. Please let us analyze this logically. Although I personally am not convinced by Oslonor-Rooyintan theory I admit there may be some elements of truth from it that are reflected in reality. Also Oslonor turned out to be a Turk who tried to created hatred between Iranian Azeris and Iran Persians, according to most accounts although I am not sure of this

I tend more towards the Arab-worship theory of mine (which needs to be logically explained) because mullahs are trained in theological schools in Arabic and look to Arabs/prophet /Koran as their source of inspiration, their role is to promote religion and its Shiite branch, therefore they focus more on that and deemphasize nationalism

Please deear Tajiks of Afghanistan and Tajikistan, contribute your ideas as well.

OF COURSE,
The only solution is secularism to get rid of Arab mullahs whose only source of inspiration is the Arab Koran and Arab prophet Mohammad and his family and the promotion of Islam and Shiism
0

#2 User is offline   Tehran Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
68
Joined:
17-February 08

Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:04 PM

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;8882]Let's discuss it all in this thread. Rooyintan=R, Oslonor=)

R says:
1) many "persian" iranians are of azeri descent but not pro-Turk (Persian Azeri or PA) - are they anti-Persian or indifferent ?
2) Turk speaking iranian azeris are anti-persian (Turk Azeri or TA)
3) all rulers in islamic republic are PA (raf, khatami, khamenei, musavi, ahmadi) or TA (which ones ?)
4) rulers or islamic republic being either TA or PA act against Persian Persians (PP)

Nadershah asks
1) if no ruler is TA then why are they so anti-Persian since they are all PAs (Khamenei born in Mashad, Ahmadi in Tehran, Khat in Yazd, Raf in Kerman)
2) why is islamic republic so much pro-Armenia and anti-Azerbaijan republic
3) why is Islamic republic not promoting use of Turkish in schools or allowing Iranian Azerbaijan to have autonomy or publish in Azeri

Further O says:
- PA try to create non-Persian Iranian identity so that both PA and TA can feel comfortable in Iran
- PA and TA are moving Azeris to various parts of Iran and suppressing PP in Iran, and ignoring PP outside Iran
- PA and TA are in league with liberals in US and associate with blacks in US
- PA and TA redirect focus of Iran to arab causes in order to divert pwople's attention from Persian nationalism which they are afraid will create a PP identity for Iranians which may excluded PA and TAs
- etc


That's it for now ... I will add more later. Please let us analyze this logically. Although I personally am not convinced by Oslonor-Rooyintan theory I admit there may be some elements of truth from it that are reflected in reality. Also Oslonor turned out to be a Turk who tried to created hatred between Iranian Azeris and Iran Persians, according to most accounts although I am not sure of this

I tend more towards the Arab-worship theory of mine (which needs to be logically explained) because mullahs are trained in theological schools in Arabic and look to Arabs/prophet /Koran as their source of inspiration, their role is to promote religion and its Shiite branch, therefore they focus more on that and deemphasize nationalism

Please deear Tajiks of Afghanistan and Tajikistan, contribute your ideas as well.

OF COURSE,
The only solution is secularism to get rid of Arab mullahs whose only source of inspiration is the Arab Koran and Arab prophet Mohammad and his family and the promotion of Islam and Shiism[/QUOTE]

WTF dude, i am azeri... chill out

and in case you havent realized iran is NOT synonymous with Persia and it has never been since the sassanid times:p

PS. Olsoner is a well-known idiot throughout cyberspace
0

#3 User is offline   arshak Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
461
Joined:
12-January 08

Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:11 PM

Quote

R says:1) many "persian" iranians are of azeri descent but not pro-Turk (Persian Azeri or PA) - are they anti-Persian or indifferent ?2) Turk speaking iranian azeris are anti-persian (Turk Azeri or TA)3) all rulers in islamic republic are PA (raf, khatami, khamenei, musavi, ahmadi) or TA (which ones ?)4) rulers or islamic republic being either TA or PA act against Persian Persians (PP)Nadershah asks1) if no ruler is TA then why are they so anti-Persian since they are all PAs (Khamenei born in Mashad, Ahmadi in Tehran, Khat in Yazd, Raf in Kerman)2) why is islamic republic so much pro-Armenia and anti-Azerbaijan republic3) why is Islamic republic not promoting use of Turkish in schools or allowing Iranian Azerbaijan to have autonomy or publish in Azeri

Dear Nader Shah,
No you misunderstood me, I did not say what you wrote above. I don't think the same as that other guy's theory.
All I'm saying is if you look at the rulers of Iran since 16th century, they're all Azeri or partly Azeri(that includes Safavids,Afshars,Qajars,Pahlavi,Islamic Republic). The only ones who were not Azeris were Zand or Ghilzai Pushtuns.
Here's what these Azeris or part-Azeris did throughout history.
a) Safavids killed or discriminated Zoroastrians, killed and discriminated against Sunni Persians(Sistani,Tajiks) & other Sunnis(Pushtuns,etc). Nader Shah-Shah Tahmasp together defeated Malik Mahmoud Sistani(who was crowned as Shahanshah of Khorasan, he was a persian who claimed being a descendant of Kiyanids). Then from Qajar period to now, we've seen our persian lanuage get destroyed, lots of foriegn words entered persian language(from French,German,Russian,English and oh Arab and Turkish words perhaps increased in numbers since midivial times). Qajars destroyed Persian language the most! Tehrani accent is no where close to Khorasani,Semnani,Yazdi,Kermani,Shirazi etc! Tehran & Tehranis are superior to Shahrestani. So you see, Tur vs Iraj seems to be happening ever since ancient times to present day.

B) Qajars & current govt are in a way continuation of Safavid Empire, there are two different poles, ie. pan-Turkists(Turkey & Azerbaijan) vs Shiite Turks(Iran)

c) For Persian revival, we need Zands or Kiyanids or maybe Zoroastrians. Otherwise I don't think Persian Union will happen anytime soon. Enemies of Persian Civilization have been active from ancient times to now, they won't stop until they completely wipe out our civilization.
0

#4 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,094
Joined:
22-May 07

Posted 11 May 2008 - 02:04 PM

Oslonor is another bastard of tailed Awghans. Once he claimed he is a PigZai who have an Azeri wife than he claim his wife is Persian than he claim himself as norwegian but it is for sure clear he is an Awghan. All fake articles he writes and words he ''developes'' (Awghan-Irano race for the aryan population of Iran and Awghanistan) show him as a tailed mf dogzai. Everything he is writing is against Iran and Persian-Speaking people. He even claim Persians have survived under the term PigToon and that other are Turks or Arabs that adoptet Parsi. Fiorget that loser.
0

#5 User is offline   PORS Icon

  • AZADANDESH
  • Icon
Group:
Administrators
Posts:
740
Joined:
30-May 07

Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:07 PM

Dorood Tehrani gerami:

I would be pleased if you could back up your second sentence: "in case you havent realized iran is NOT synonymous with Persia and it has never been since the sassanid times".

Ba seepas,



Pors.

[QUOTE=Tehran;8885]i am azeri... chill out

and in case you havent realized iran is NOT synonymous with Persia and it has never been since the sassanid times:p

PS. Olsoner is a well-known idiot throughout cyberspace[/QUOTE]
0

#6 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,094
Joined:
22-May 07

Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:18 PM

[QUOTE=PORS;8911]Dorood Tehrani gerami:

I would be pleased if you could back up your second sentence: "in case you havent realized iran is NOT synonymous with Persia and it has never been since the sassanid times".

Ba seepas,



Pors.[/QUOTE]

What he means is that ''Persia'' was the name for a much greater region, greater than Iranian Plateau, and the people of that ''state'' were called Persians since it was ruled from Pars and near regions (Kethphiston, Irak f.ex.). The same with roman empire and Ottoman empire and some others were all Muslims, no matter which identity and origine they had, were called Ottomans or only ''Turks''(Muslims). Modern Iran is only minimalized on ethnic Persians while Kurds are known by their own identity, same with brainwashed Azeris who belive they are Turks. That means, ''Persia'' and ''Persians'' are not a race or a country, but a civilization of all urban Aryans that were able to work for a Pan-Aryan feeling. We were always one, had same language (also diff. by dialects and geography), same culture, mentality, faith and we still are one. Thats the power of Persian civilization that is still alive for over 2800 years with the first unification of Aryans.
0

#7 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
720
Joined:
13-January 08

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:09 AM

Dear Nadershahjaan,

I am sure you will encounter Oslonur in cyberspace again. He is a well-known, actually a prominent cyber-moron among pan-Turkists. He not only hates Iran, he is ready to blast in tatters but see Iran in misery. I've had a couple of chats with him and left him in deep pain. It's better not to give him such a publicity, cuz he's not worth it.

And who said the Yezdi Khatami was PA? I was certain he was PP.

The same goes for Ahmadinejad.

Khamenei is a known case. But he doesn't sound pro-Turkic even a bit. (I know we don't like him, but anyway).
0

#8 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:19 AM

Last time you said you are from Luristan, so how come you are Azeri ?
[QUOTE=Tehran;8885]WTF dude, i am azeri... chill out

and in case you havent realized iran is NOT synonymous with Persia and it has never been since the sassanid times:p

PS. Olsoner is a well-known idiot throughout cyberspace[/QUOTE]
0

#9 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:24 AM

Darius Jan, I also have found no evidence for Ahmadinejad or Khatam's ancestors being Azeri. In fact, the Khatamis have been in Yazd for generations.

Rooyintan e aziz, please show us the evidence pointing to Azeri origin of Khat and Ahamdi, and also Uzbek ancestry of Raf. Although Raf may look slightly Uzbek, I have seen no evidence of his Uzbek ancestry ( I googled a lot and found noting) . Thank you ...
[QUOTE=Darius;8918]Dear Nadershahjaan,

I am sure you will encounter Oslonur in cyberspace again. He is a well-known, actually a prominent cyber-moron among pan-Turkists. He not only hates Iran, he is ready to blast in tatters but see Iran in misery. I've had a couple of chats with him and left him in deep pain. It's better not to give him such a publicity, cuz he's not worth it.

And who said the Yezdi Khatami was PA? I was certain he was PP.

The same goes for Ahmadinejad.

Khamenei is a known case. But he doesn't sound pro-Turkic even a bit. (I know we don't like him, but anyway).[/QUOTE]
0

#10 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:32 AM

Rooytintan e aziz, I based my understanding on the following comments you made:
Ofcourse! Khamenei is Mashhad born of Azeri heritage, Ahmadinejad is of Azeri heritage, former president Khatami born in Ardakan but of Azeri heritage, former politicians such as Mousavi, Mousavi-Ardabili all Azeris. I can say most of ministers and parliamentary members are of Azeri heritage. Rafsanjani is of Uzbek heritage, Khomeini was of Indian heritage, Shah was of partly Azeri heritage also(his mum was from Nakhchevan), then ofcourse Qajar,Afshar and Safavi dynasties all were Azeri origin too!
So yes since 16th century Iran was ruled by Azeris, only Zand dynasty and Ghilazai were not Azeris ;-)
umm ok, this is it, Iran is losing against Turkey!! Well I'm not surprised when all the people in power are Azerbaijani!


Could you please elaborate ? I realize that we have been mostly ruled by Turks and Mongols since the Mongol Invasion ... but I question Shah being Azeri or all rulers in Iran being Azeri ... and also I checked Ahmadinejad's cabinet a few years ago, there was only one Azeri I think (oil minister) who was rejected by parliament ... as for MPs I do't know but please present your evidence so that ew may be enlightened. Thanks.
[QUOTE=rooyintan;8888]Dear Nader Shah,
No you misunderstood me, I did not say what you wrote above. I don't think the same as that other guy's theory.
All I'm saying is if you look at the rulers of Iran since 16th century, they're all Azeri or partly Azeri(that includes Safavids,Afshars,Qajars,Pahlavi,Islamic Republic). The only ones who were not Azeris were Zand or Ghilzai Pushtuns.
Here's what these Azeris or part-Azeris did throughout history.
a) Safavids killed or discriminated Zoroastrians, killed and discriminated against Sunni Persians(Sistani,Tajiks) & other Sunnis(Pushtuns,etc). Nader Shah-Shah Tahmasp together defeated Malik Mahmoud Sistani(who was crowned as Shahanshah of Khorasan, he was a persian who claimed being a descendant of Kiyanids). Then from Qajar period to now, we've seen our persian lanuage get destroyed, lots of foriegn words entered persian language(from French,German,Russian,English and oh Arab and Turkish words perhaps increased in numbers since midivial times). Qajars destroyed Persian language the most! Tehrani accent is no where close to Khorasani,Semnani,Yazdi,Kermani,Shirazi etc! Tehran & Tehranis are superior to Shahrestani. So you see, Tur vs Iraj seems to be happening ever since ancient times to present day.

B) Qajars & current govt are in a way continuation of Safavid Empire, there are two different poles, ie. pan-Turkists(Turkey & Azerbaijan) vs Shiite Turks(Iran)

c) For Persian revival, we need Zands or Kiyanids or maybe Zoroastrians. Otherwise I don't think Persian Union will happen anytime soon. Enemies of Persian Civilization have been active from ancient times to now, they won't stop until they completely wipe out our civilization.[/QUOTE]
0

#11 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
1,155
Joined:
13-October 07

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:36 AM

The only person who claimed that Raf is Uzbek, Khatami and Ahmadi are Azeris (heritage) is Oslonor -- no one else has made such claims ... so I thought that Dear Rooyintan based his comments on Oslonor's claims ... but if there is serious evidence let's dig it up. In any case, we all have some mixed heritage, but it is our current status that matters most, if I am not mistaken - so it is hard to see how Raf, Khat, Ahmadi would fight for Uzbeks and Azeris ecen if they had the heritage - sounds more like a conspiracy theory cooked up by Oslonor
0

#12 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
720
Joined:
13-January 08

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:41 AM

I got the same stance. I also believe that Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi was an Iranian (Persian) of Mazenderani origin. The Queen Farah Pahlavi (as she says in her memoirs) is Persian (Gilaki+Azeri). Ahmadinejad is Persian. Khatami is Persian. Khamenei is an Iranian Azeri with no sympathy to Turks. Iran is ruled by Iranians, no matter what they are. Don't give aces to pan-Turkic lot azizan.

[QUOTE=Nader Shah;8923]Rooytintan e aziz, I based my understanding on the following comments you made:
Ofcourse! Khamenei is Mashhad born of Azeri heritage, Ahmadinejad is of Azeri heritage, former president Khatami born in Ardakan but of Azeri heritage, former politicians such as Mousavi, Mousavi-Ardabili all Azeris. I can say most of ministers and parliamentary members are of Azeri heritage. Rafsanjani is of Uzbek heritage, Khomeini was of Indian heritage, Shah was of partly Azeri heritage also(his mum was from Nakhchevan), then ofcourse Qajar,Afshar and Safavi dynasties all were Azeri origin too!
So yes since 16th century Iran was ruled by Azeris, only Zand dynasty and Ghilazai were not Azeris ;-)
umm ok, this is it, Iran is losing against Turkey!! Well I'm not surprised when all the people in power are Azerbaijani!


Could you please elaborate ? I realize that we have been mostly ruled by Turks and Mongols since the Mongol Invasion ... but I question Shah being Azeri or all rulers in Iran being Azeri ... and also I checked Ahmadinejad's cabinet a few years ago, there was only one Azeri I think (oil minister) who was rejected by parliament ... as for MPs I do't know but please present your evidence so that ew may be enlightened. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
0

#13 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
720
Joined:
13-January 08

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:46 AM

There are no Uzbeks in Iran. I've heard of Rafsanjani being Torkaman, but this rumour might have spread due to his physiology. Otherwise, there are no Turks in Iran altogether. There are just some Turkic tribes. As for Azeris, they don't belong to the yellow race. They are Iranian.
0

#14 User is offline   arshak Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
461
Joined:
12-January 08

Posted 12 May 2008 - 08:52 AM

Dear Nader Shah and Darius,

I do not have any proof of Raf being Uzbek, however he looks like a descendant of Timurids. In iran we have lots of Timuri people(specially in Khorasan,Kerman,Yazd), the name 'Uzbek' is not used as an ethnicity. OK then he's considered Persian, my apologies. If one's ancestor is from somewhere doesn't make the person of the same ethnicity. Just like i'm not Azeri or Tatar or Arab.

For other two presidents, well one(ie. Khat) looks like an Azeri and even speaks the language, the other (Ah.N) looks like an Azeri, don't know if he can speak the language.

Well we all know that Safavids,Afshars & Qajars all were Azeri or Eastern Anatolians. Afshar & Qajar's original homeland were West Azerbaijan province & Eastern Anatolia. Some Afshars(ie. Kooseh-Ahmadlu & Gharakhlu clans/Afshar Dynasty) came to Khorasan most probably when Safavids took power, some Qajars(Qovanlu,Aghabashlu,Izzidinlu clans/Qajar Dynasty) were forcefully moved to Astarabad-e-Gorgan.


As for previous rulers & ministers & army personnel, take a look at:
Azerbaijan & Nakhchevan:
Reza Shah's mother was from Nakhchevan:
"5) Major 'Abbas 'Ali Khan [Dadash Beg]. b. ca. 1815. Cmsnd. 7th Savad Kuh Regt., served in the Anglo-Persian War 1856, m. five (or seven) wives, including (fifth) 1877, Nush Afarin Khanum (b. ca. 1836; m. second, ca. 1879, and d. at Teheran, 1884), sister of 'Abdu'l Qasim Khan, of a leading family from Nakhijavan, in Erivan. He d. suddenly at Alasht, 26th November 1878, having had issue 32 children of whom eight sons and four daughters survived infancy, including:

* a) Captain Fathu'llah Khan, 7th Savad Kuh Regt.
* B) 'Abdu'llah Khan. Special Adj. to Nasir ud-din Shah.
* c) H.I.M. Reza Shah Pahlavi, Shahanshah of Iran (s/o Nush Afarin, yngst son) "
source: http://www.4dw.net/r...ia/pahlavi2.htm

http://en.wikipedia..../Tadj_ol-Molouk
http://en.wikipedia....im_Buzarjomehri
http://en.wikipedia....ad_Hosein_Airom

Khorasani Turk:
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Teymourtash

and Iranian Azeris(from Tabriz,Ardebil) there were many of them in 1980-1989 period at various ministerial posts and also judicery,etc.

Anyways, I do not like politics and I stay away from it.
I would like to conclude here with my final say that Iranian rulers were of Azeri origin since 16th Century, we did not have a real Persian(someone who is not a turkic speaker or does not have an Azeri parent!) apart from previous leader who was Persian but his grandfather was Indian or Zand clan who were Lurs.
0

#15 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,094
Joined:
22-May 07

Posted 12 May 2008 - 09:45 AM

Safavids werent Turks, but of Persian-Kurdish (Tat-Kurdish) origine.

Saf? ad-D?n Is'haq Ardabil?)[1] (persisch ??? ??? * ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?; ?*ey? Saf? ad-D?n Ardabil?) (*1252; ?*1334 in Ardabil) war ein wichtiger Geistlicher aus dem Iran. Er war Vorfahre und Namensgeber der Safawiden-Dynastie.

Saf? ad-D?n war der Schwiegersohn des Sufi Geistlichen Scheich Z?hed G?l?n?. Gem der Chronologie des Silsilat al-Nasab Safawiyya, des berlieferten Stammbaums der Safawiden (entstanden im 17. Jahrhundert), war Saf? ad-D?n Nachkomme eines gewissen Fir?z Schah Zarr?n-Kullah al-Kord? al-Gilan?s[2] und somit kurdisch-persischer Abstammung.[3][4]

Use a google translator

1. ? Andere Schreibweisen von Saf? ad-D?n sind u.a. Safi al-Din, Safi ad-Dn, Safi Eddin, Safi od-Din, Safi El-Din, Safioddin oder Safieddin
2. ? Barry D. Wood, The Tarikh-i Jahanara in the Chester Beatty Library: an illustrated manuscript of the "Anonymous Histories of Shah Isma'il", Islamic Gallery Project, Asian Department Victoria & Albert Museum London, Routledge, Volume 37, Number 1 / Mrz 2004, ff: 89 - 107.
3. ? Meyers Konversations-Lexikon, Vol. XII, S. 873, " Persien (Geschichte des neupersischen Reichs)", (LINK)
4. ? "Ebn Bazzaz", in Encyclopedia Iranica: [1]
5. ? E. Yarshater, in Encyclopaedia Iranica, Vol. 1, S. 240
6. ? E. Yarshater, in Encyclopaedia Iranica, "The Iranian Language of Azerbaijan"

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavids

Afshars and Qajars werent Azeris, but persianized Turkmen people. (Nader Shah, Agha Khan...)

See also here: http://tajikam.com/f...p?t=2796&page=2
0

#16 User is offline   arshak Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
461
Joined:
12-January 08

Posted 12 May 2008 - 10:42 AM

[QUOTE=Parsistani;8949]Safavids werent Turks, but of Persian-Kurdish (Tat-Kurdish) origine.

Saf? ad-D?n Is'haq Ardabil?)[1] (persisch ??? ??? * ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ?; ?*ey? Saf? ad-D?n Ardabil?) (*1252; ?*1334 in Ardabil) war ein wichtiger Geistlicher aus dem Iran. Er war Vorfahre und Namensgeber der Safawiden-Dynastie.

Saf? ad-D?n war der Schwiegersohn des Sufi Geistlichen Scheich Z?hed G?l?n?. Gem der Chronologie des Silsilat al-Nasab Safawiyya, des berlieferten Stammbaums der Safawiden (entstanden im 17. Jahrhundert), war Saf? ad-D?n Nachkomme eines gewissen Fir?z Schah Zarr?n-Kullah al-Kord? al-Gilan?s[2] und somit kurdisch-persischer Abstammung.[3][4]

Use a google translator

1. ? Andere Schreibweisen von Saf? ad-D?n sind u.a. Safi al-Din, Safi ad-Dn, Safi Eddin, Safi od-Din, Safi El-Din, Safioddin oder Safieddin
2. ? Barry D. Wood, The Tarikh-i Jahanara in the Chester Beatty Library: an illustrated manuscript of the "Anonymous Histories of Shah Isma'il", Islamic Gallery Project, Asian Department Victoria & Albert Museum London, Routledge, Volume 37, Number 1 / Mrz 2004, ff: 89 - 107.
3. ? Meyers Konversations-Lexikon, Vol. XII, S. 873, " Persien (Geschichte des neupersischen Reichs)", (LINK)
4. ? "Ebn Bazzaz", in Encyclopedia Iranica: [1]
5. ? E. Yarshater, in Encyclopaedia Iranica, Vol. 1, S. 240
6. ? E. Yarshater, in Encyclopaedia Iranica, "The Iranian Language of Azerbaijan"

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavids

Afshars and Qajars werent Azeris, but persianized Turkmen people. (Nader Shah, Agha Khan...)

See also here: http://tajikam.com/f...p?t=2796&page=2[/QUOTE]

"1501 - 1524 H.M. Zill-u'llah 'Abu'l Muzaffar Sultan Ismail Shah I, Shahanshah of Persia. b. 17th July 1487, third and youngest son of 'Abu'l Wilayat Sultan Haidar Safawi, Grand Master of the Safawi Order, by his wife, Alam Shah Begum [Halima Begi Agha], daughter of 'Abu'l Nasir Hasan Khan [Uzun Hasan], Khan of the Aq Quyunlu, by his wife, Princess Theodora Comnena, daughter of H.M. John IV, Emperor of Trebizond."
source: http://www.4dw.net/r...sia/safawi2.htm

The language of the Safavid Court was Azerbaijani Turkish. The official language of the state was Persian. All Safavid Shah spoke Azeri fluently.

Nader Shah of Afshar dynasty knew Azeri Turkish also but always spoke to Ottoman Envoys in Persian as he was a Persian patriot.

Qajar Shahs also knew Azeri Turkish but used Persian more than Azeri Turkish.
0

#17 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Research Group
Posts:
2,094
Joined:
22-May 07

Posted 12 May 2008 - 10:58 AM

This is now two different diff. genealogy trees. Yours is not based on scientific research while the scientific sources (you can read them above) explain them as Iranian. Of course, Safavids were originally turkish speaking since they became turkificated only by language (that does not make them to Turks. Turkeys population is also not turkic in race but in language because they are descandants of pre-turkic population) but Safavids were also those who defeat Turkmen tribes in Aserbaidjan. Than, your source only claim his wife as daughter if Abdul Nasir, who were of turkic origine (Oguz-Turk). But now explain to me where Safavids are Turks? The Oguz-Turks self, were absorbed and totally assimilated into the native population of Armenia, Georgia, Aserbaidjan, Anatolia, Cypres ect. and in only some region they were able to turkify the population (and that only by language).

Again,

Safavids=Iranic/ with originally Kurdic-Persian origine (Scheich Z?hed G?l?n?; Nachkomme eines gewissen Fir?z Schah Zarr?n-Kullah al-Kord? al-Gilan?s) than one of them moved to southern Aserbaidjan, adoptet the turkic language (became an Azeri Persian without speaking at this time Tati-Persian (middle age Persian)) there and tatatata, a new Safavid ''identity'' was born.

dynasty of mixed Azeri[2] and Kurdish[3] origins,...

Qajars: The Qajar rulers were members of the Quvanlu clan of the Qajars, originally themselves members of the Oghuz branch of the larger Turkmen peoples[4][5][6].

The Afshariss turkic ''dialect'' was only close to that of Aserbaidjan but they didnt spoke Azeri-Turkish. Thats two diff. point. Another dialect of Afshars are close to that of Ghashghai Turks also both groups are total different, looking different, living different, and and and.
0

#18 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

  • Sar Dabeer
  • Icon
Group:
Administrators
Posts:
557
Joined:
17-May 07

Posted 12 May 2008 - 03:26 PM

Rafsanjani is either a Mashadi Hazara or a Temuri Aimaq.
0

#19 User is offline   Tehran Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
68
Joined:
17-February 08

Posted 12 May 2008 - 06:08 PM

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8956]
Qajar Shahs also knew Azeri Turkish but used Persian more than Azeri Turkish.[/QUOTE]

the Qajar azeri tribe made Persian the ONLY OFFICIAL LANGUAGE and you guys still insult us :mad:
0

#20 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
Group:
Members
Posts:
720
Joined:
13-January 08

Posted 12 May 2008 - 07:24 PM

Dear Rooyintan,

Azerbaijanis (of the republic) had been really angry with Khatami and had accused him of 'Persian chauvinism':

http://www.armeniand...read.php?t=8046

The fact that he speaks Azeri doesn't make him Azeri, of course. I speak several languages, including Turkish, but ethnically could be known as nothing but Persian. I might look like many other nations, so that could I live in different countries without being recognized as a foreigner. But again, that doesn't make me belong to any nation but Persian.

As regards Ahmadinezhad, he was born in Garmsar, the Simnan province, and I've never heard or read about him being Azeri.

And even if all of them were Azeri, I think there could have been no reason to worry. Azeris are as Iranian as any other Iranian ethnie.

I wish you all the best brother

[QUOTE=rooyintan;8948]Dear Nader Shah and Darius,

I do not have any proof of Raf being Uzbek, however he looks like a descendant of Timurids. In iran we have lots of Timuri people(specially in Khorasan,Kerman,Yazd), the name 'Uzbek' is not used as an ethnicity. OK then he's considered Persian, my apologies. If one's ancestor is from somewhere doesn't make the person of the same ethnicity. Just like i'm not Azeri or Tatar or Arab.

For other two presidents, well one(ie. Khat) looks like an Azeri and even speaks the language, the other (Ah.N) looks like an Azeri, don't know if he can speak the language.

Well we all know that Safavids,Afshars & Qajars all were Azeri or Eastern Anatolians. Afshar & Qajar's original homeland were West Azerbaijan province & Eastern Anatolia. Some Afshars(ie. Kooseh-Ahmadlu & Gharakhlu clans/Afshar Dynasty) came to Khorasan most probably when Safavids took power, some Qajars(Qovanlu,Aghabashlu,Izzidinlu clans/Qajar Dynasty) were forcefully moved to Astarabad-e-Gorgan.


As for previous rulers & ministers & army personnel, take a look at:
Azerbaijan & Nakhchevan:
Reza Shah's mother was from Nakhchevan:
"5) Major 'Abbas 'Ali Khan [Dadash Beg]. b. ca. 1815. Cmsnd. 7th Savad Kuh Regt., served in the Anglo-Persian War 1856, m. five (or seven) wives, including (fifth) 1877, Nush Afarin Khanum (b. ca. 1836; m. second, ca. 1879, and d. at Teheran, 1884), sister of 'Abdu'l Qasim Khan, of a leading family from Nakhijavan, in Erivan. He d. suddenly at Alasht, 26th November 1878, having had issue 32 children of whom eight sons and four daughters survived infancy, including:

* a) Captain Fathu'llah Khan, 7th Savad Kuh Regt.
* B) 'Abdu'llah Khan. Special Adj. to Nasir ud-din Shah.
* c) H.I.M. Reza Shah Pahlavi, Shahanshah of Iran (s/o Nush Afarin, yngst son) "
source: http://www.4dw.net/r...ia/pahlavi2.htm

http://en.wikipedia..../Tadj_ol-Molouk
http://en.wikipedia....im_Buzarjomehri
http://en.wikipedia....ad_Hosein_Airom

Khorasani Turk:
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Teymourtash

and Iranian Azeris(from Tabriz,Ardebil) there were many of them in 1980-1989 period at various ministerial posts and also judicery,etc.

Anyways, I do not like politics and I stay away from it.
I would like to conclude here with my final say that Iranian rulers were of Azeri origin since 16th Century, we did not have a real Persian(someone who is not a turkic speaker or does not have an Azeri parent!) apart from previous leader who was Persian but his grandfather was Indian or Zand clan who were Lurs.[/QUOTE]
0

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users