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To Kabuli ''Tajiks'' Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 08:09 PM

I had deep thoughts in the last weeks about our future and our ''Khorasan''. While i was thinking about the one point and the other point i came to the conclusion all these topics and your taughts and even this forum is valueless and a waste... Why? The answer is easy. You guys are active in your own world which situate toward only 4 corners and your own fantasies. There is no any realistic actions...only bla bla here and bla bla there. Wasting your time with ''Khorasan Tv'' and believing people weak up...thats what most of us can. Now i want to share another idea with ''Tajiks'' of Kabulzameen. My idea is of an idependant country called Kabulistan, with Kabul as capital and centre province. Kabulistan should be made by Pansher, Kapisa, Parwan, Kabul, large parts of Hazarajat, Laghman, Khost, Paktia...including parts of Kandahar and Helmand. I know, that it will take a long time to share this idea to all Kabulis with Persian as mother toung and maybe it will also have some problems (wars with PigTuns and Hazaras) but if we get an own nation and united not even the masters of these evils will be able to stop us. Let other, the Tajiks or Farsiwans (call them whatever you want), create their own illusion country...important is that we have our own country and can be free. I share with you that idea because i know that the Non-Awghan people in these region are Anti-Awghans, specially in the four famous provinces Pansher, Kapisa, Parwan and Kabul. Noone will be able to stop us...and Tajiks in Pashtun dominated areas are usually mostl ethnocentric so they would support us without asking.
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#2 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 12:23 AM

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I had deep thoughts in the last weeks about our future and our ''Khorasan''. While i was thinking about the one point and the other point i came to the conclusion all these topics and your taughts and even this forum is valueless and a waste... Why? The answer is easy. You guys are active in your own world which situate toward only 4 corners and your own fantasies. There is no any realistic actions...only bla bla here and bla bla there. Wasting your time with ''Khorasan Tv'' and believing people weak up...that�s what most of us can. Now i want to share another idea with ''Tajiks'' of Kabulzameen. My idea is of an idependant country called Kabulistan, with Kabul as capital and centre province. Kabulistan should be made by Pansher, Kapisa, Parwan, Kabul, large parts of Hazarajat, Laghman, Khost, Paktia...including parts of Kandahar and Helmand. I know, that it will take a long time to share this idea to all Kabulis with Persian as mother toung and maybe it will also have some problems (wars with PigTuns and Hazaras) but if we get an own nation and united not even the masters of these evils will be able to stop us. Let other, the Tajiks or Farsiwans (call them whatever you want), create their own illusion country...important is that we have our own country and can be free. I share with you that idea because i know that the Non-Awghan people in these region are Anti-Awghans, specially in the four famous provinces Pansher, Kapisa, Parwan and Kabul. Noone will be able to stop us...and Tajiks in Pashtun dominated areas are usually mostl ethnocentric so they would support us without asking.



Parsistani,

This is a great idea - indeed we must think in terms of regions - it is the logical step to take prior to forming a bigger entity. I also see the great potential that the unity in just Kapisa-Panjsher-Parwan provinces can bring about - they can take over most of the country if they were united and motivated. They are feared the most by the Pashtunists and hence so many of the conspiracies against them.

Kabulistan - compromising of the Kapisa-Parwan-Panjsher-Kabul-Logar provinces at it's heart. This is what traditionally comprised of the area to launch attacks upon India in the past. And then if desired to add Laghman- and parts of Nangarhar, Wardak and Paktia. Once it is strong enough and united enough it can then move onto areas further south.

Do you know of literature referring to Kabulistan/Kabulzameen ? We ought to exploit it.
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#3 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 01:09 AM

Sectarian ideas never succeed in uniting a greater entity.
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#4 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 01:39 AM

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Sectarian ideas never succeed in uniting a greater entity.



Kambiz/Darius,


What do you mean by SECTARIAN ideas?


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#5 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 01:48 AM

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Kambiz/Darius,


What do you mean by SECTARIAN ideas?


Ahhangar



Ahhangar,


You can replace it with 'regionalist', if you please.


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#6 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 02:39 AM

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Ahhangar,


You can replace it with 'regionalist', if you please.


Kambiz



OK. So you are of the mind that by adopting regional identities - it will not help in bring about a larger entity. It does not have to necessarily.


I view it like this - Khorasan is a huge entity - and would comprise of many OSTANS. Kabulistan would be one of them. All the different OSTANS will be united under the Khurasan entity - and that Khurasan entity being a part of the GREATER IRAN entity.


The point of Kabulistan - a big region - is to get rid of the smaller regional identities that currently hold sway in that are. This Kabulistan idea at it is core compromises of the area of Parwan - Kapisa - Panjsher - Logar - an area with a huge Tajik population - but divided by small area thinking. Uniting them would be enough to bring about significant changes to all of Afghanistan.


I do not agree that Kabuistan should be an independent country - that would be too far.


Now you tell us what you oppose or regard as SECTARIAN here?


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#7 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 02:50 AM

Well, I don't think comprehending the words 'sectarian' or 'regionalist' needs a throrough discussion. Your perception of the words sounds correct.


Nowadays regionalism is one of the main problems among Tajiks in CA and encouraging it in other parts of our homeland is not a wise idea. Precisely in the same way that you are talking about the necessity of getting rid of smaller regional identitites in the Greater Kabul area, after achieving 'Kabulistan' formation you will be riddled again: how to get rid of Kabulistan and other 'stans' to unite the entire nation. It's better to aim higher to achieve more rather than slowing down the process by uniting under different 'stans'. We've been divided into 4 countries before and that's more than enough. It's time to think about bringing them all together, not dividing them further.


Quote

OK. So you are of the mind that by adopting regional identities - it will not help in bring about a larger entity. It does not have to necessarily.


I view it like this - Khorasan is a huge entity - and would comprise of many OSTANS. Kabulistan would be one of them. All the different OSTANS will be united under the Khurasan entity - and that Khurasan entity being a part of the GREATER IRAN entity.


The point of Kabulistan - a big region - is to get rid of the smaller regional identities that currently hold sway in that are. This Kabulistan idea at it is core compromises of the area of Parwan - Kapisa - Panjsher - Logar - an area with a huge Tajik population - but divided by small area thinking. Uniting them would be enough to bring about significant changes to all of Afghanistan.


I do not agree that Kabuistan should be an independent country - that would be too far.


Now you tell us what you oppose or regard as SECTARIAN here?


Ahhangar

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#8 User is offline   Ahhangar Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 03:26 AM

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Well, I don't think comprehending the words 'sectarian' or 'regionalist' needs a throrough discussion. Your perception of the words sounds correct.


Nowadays regionalism is one of the main problems among Tajiks in CA and encouraging it in other parts of our homeland is not a wise idea. Precisely in the same way that you are talking about the necessity of getting rid of smaller regional identitites in the Greater Kabul area, after achieving 'Kabulistan' formation you will be riddled again: how to get rid of Kabulistan and other 'stans' to unite the entire nation. It's better to aim higher to achieve more rather than slowing down the process by uniting under different 'stans'. We've been divided into 4 countries before and that's more than enough. It's time to think about bringing them all together, not dividing them further.



I think contrary to slowing down the process of bringing unity - it will speed it up, if it is propagated as an integral part of the Khurasan entity and it is understood that the aim is Khurasan - and not just Kabulistan!


OSTANS are not the same as having separate countries - Kabulistan will be a part of Khurasan, as much as Texas is a part of the USA - that is how it will be propagated - and not some separate country. I do not agree on establishing separate countries. It is simply a matter of how one should organize the geography of Khurasan.


I intend to get the wider acceptance of the idea of Khurasan through couching it in the historical regional names that are complementary to it - which would be easily identifiable and invigorating. It can be viewed as trying to find the best way to geographically organize an ideologically strong Khurasan.



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#9 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 03:32 AM

You are bewildered about uniting the regions of the Greater Kabul now. We'll see what comes out of this plan, of course if implemented. But, as said before, uniting under smaller regional names does not serve for our cause of uniting separate countries. By emphasising a single area - you want it or not - you'd give priority to particular groups of Persians which will really slow down the process of a greater unity.


Anyway, good luck with you. I'm off to bed for now. Nice chatting with you.


Kambiz


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I think contrary to slowing down the process of bringing unity - it will speed it up, if it is propagated as an integral part of the Khurasan entity and it is understood that the aim is Khurasan - and not just Kabulistan!


OSTANS are not the same as having separate countries - Kabulistan will be a part of Khurasan, as much as Texas is a part of the USA - that is how it will be propagated - and not some separate country. I do not agree on establishing separate countries. It is simply a matter of how one should organize the geography of Khurasan.


I intend to get the wider acceptance of the idea of Khurasan through couching it in the historical regional names that are complementary to it - which would be easily identifiable and invigorating. It can be viewed as trying to find the best way to geographically organize an ideologically strong Khurasan.



Ahhangar

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#10 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 04:32 AM

Not a bad idea at all. I am no expert on Afghanistan, but it seems that the Panjshir area is full of brave and nationalist people, and together with Kabul and surrounding areas, even creating an independent country would be better than the current state of affairs. It seems more feasible than taking over all of Afghanistan. And then it can get help from Tajikistan nearby (even militarily if TJ had the means which I doubt). Eventually, the rest of the country will be inspired and will either join Kabulistan or rise up. Armchair warriors like Ahhangar are not useful. People like Gul Agha, on their end, are doing great cultural work of awakening people and it will be needed side by side with other efforts.


However, Parsistani, what action do you plan to take ? So far, I do not see much difference between your approach and Ahhangar's ? Are you able to spread these ideas and gather some people ?

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I had deep thoughts in the last weeks about our future and our ''Khorasan''. While i was thinking about the one point and the other point i came to the conclusion all these topics and your taughts and even this forum is valueless and a waste... Why? The answer is easy. You guys are active in your own world which situate toward only 4 corners and your own fantasies. There is no any realistic actions...only bla bla here and bla bla there. Wasting your time with ''Khorasan Tv'' and believing people weak up...that's what most of us can. Now i want to share another idea with ''Tajiks'' of Kabulzameen. My idea is of an idependant country called Kabulistan, with Kabul as capital and centre province. Kabulistan should be made by Pansher, Kapisa, Parwan, Kabul, large parts of Hazarajat, Laghman, Khost, Paktia...including parts of Kandahar and Helmand. I know, that it will take a long time to share this idea to all Kabulis with Persian as mother toung and maybe it will also have some problems (wars with PigTuns and Hazaras) but if we get an own nation and united not even the masters of these evils will be able to stop us. Let other, the Tajiks or Farsiwans (call them whatever you want), create their own illusion country...important is that we have our own country and can be free. I share with you that idea because i know that the Non-Awghan people in these region are Anti-Awghans, specially in the four famous provinces Pansher, Kapisa, Parwan and Kabul. Noone will be able to stop us...and Tajiks in Pashtun dominated areas are usually mostl ethnocentric so they would support us without asking.

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#11 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 06:28 AM

On second thought, it could be unwise to take any steps in this direction without being very well prepared to fight a strong Pashtun/Pakistan backlash, which may result in carnage and ruining of the lives of many innocent Tajiks. Not that anything serious is being done for the moment ... I doubt this will ever materialize but hypothetically speaking better be prepared to defeat Pashtuns soundly before taking any military action . The remants of Ahmad Shah's Massoud fighters would be the only military force available currently, and without outside support I doubt they can be a match for the ferocious Pashtuns, unless they are armed with far superior weapons. Seems like a pipe dream ... but at least the idea is not so bad. And based on Superior's 1880 book, Kabulistan was the name of the northern part of Afghanistan historically (is this correct ?) so it sounds like a good name too. Just an opinion ... I am no expert on Afghanistan, and I am happy to see some people talk about taking action with a novel twist, but I also would not like to see the people of Afghanistan suffer more from wars and devastation. Hopefully, if a democratic solution can be found - given the Persian speaking majority in Afghanistan - to put a Persian government in power, that would be the best option ...
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#12 User is offline   Balkhi Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 08:52 AM

How old are you guys? Seriousily? Stop wasting your time on fantasy ideas like Kabulistan or having Khorasan overnight, you guys expect to go from step 1 to 10 overnight!

We are at step one, working towards step two, and then work up from there. Compare where we are today with 1900 under Abdur Rahman or Nadir e Ghadir, and that will put things in context.

The main goal of East Persian in both in Afghanistan and in Europe and America like you and I should be for the next 10 years to take pride in our long history, demand schools and roads to be build in honor of our past personalities in Afghanistan and promote and stick by Farsi in Media and School Curriculum. Atta Mohamad of Balkh is a model post-Massoud Tajik. One doesn't need to go towards the path of Latif Pedram to work for Farsi and Tajiks, there's many other avenues.

Then from there take it to step two. So far, things are looking good. I may not be alive to see Khorasan, but I sure as hell want my children or their grand children to be alive to see it!

Also dont try to divide Tajiks of Afghanistan, if some of you arent Muslim, well then dont isolate Muslims like me and others, *PLEASE DO NOT USE FOUL LANGUAGE IN THIS FORUM* like PORS here and behzad70 on youtube are you reading this? Whether you like it or not, 95% of us are muslim first and then Tajik. Dont make them competing identies, they are complementary and mutual identities which have combined for the benefit of humanity over the last thousand years.
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#13 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 09:00 AM

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How old are you guys? Seriousily? Stop wasting your time on fantasy ideas like Kabulistan or having Khorasan overnight, you guys expect to go from step 1 to 10 overnight!


We are at step one, working towards step two, and then work up from there. Compare where we are today with 1900 under Abdur Rahman or Nadir e Ghadir, and that will put things in context.


The main goal of East Persian in both in Afghanistan and in Europe and America like you and I should be for the next 10 years to take pride in our long history, demand schools and roads to be build in honor of our past personalities in Afghanistan and promote and stick by Farsi in Media and School Ciriculicullam. Atta Mohamad of Balkh is a model post-Massoud Tajik.


Then from there take it to step two. So far, things are looking good. I may not be alive to see Khorasan, but I sure as hell want my children or their grand children to be alive to see it!


Also don�t try to divide Tajiks of Afghanistan, if some of you aren�t Muslim, well then don�t isolate Muslims like me and others, idiots like PORS here and behzad70 on youtube are you reading this? Whether you like it or not, 95% of us are muslim first and then Tajik. Don�t make them competing identies, they are complementary and mutual identities which have combined for the benefit of humanity over the last thousand years.



Dear Balkhi,


You are making good points above. And also religion must not divide us. If we want to achieve something we need to respect each others' beliefs otherwise we'll be heading to Turkistan rather than Kaaba and our minds will be distracted from the main points. As per PORs insulting muslims, I have never seen anything from him like that. I am a muslim as well, and he has been very respectful and friendly to me. It might be another PORS, I am certain.
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#14 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 09:06 AM

I am against this concept. We should develop idea of unity of all Tajiks of Khorasan. The concept "Khorasan" will be better, because it is connected with all Tajiks of region. Under the term of "Khorasan" it is possible to unite all Tajiks, but with "Kabulistan" it is impossible. The concept Khorasan becomes more and more popular among Tajiks of Afghanistan and also Tajikistan. For example, in this forum the number of our patriots of Khorasan increases every day. After 5-6 years we will have more than 10 thousand patriots of Khorasan and 10 thousand people are big army.
Everything begins from words, from ideas.
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#15 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 09:14 AM

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Whether you like it or not, 95% of us are muslim first and then Tajik. Don�t make them competing identies, they are complementary and mutual identities which have combined for the benefit of humanity over the last thousand years.




Dear Balkhi, here nobody divides Tajiks of Afghanistan. Quite the contrary we are supporters of unity of Tajiks. :)

ps: I am first Tajik then Muslim.
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#16 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 10:22 AM

Edited : * if you want to stay in our forum (tajikam), act like a tajik! *
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#17 User is offline   Phoenix Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 01:05 PM

It's indeed great idea, parsi.
But, you're not the president of Afghanistan. So how do you will treat that?
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#18 User is offline   Mahasti Icon

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 03:06 PM

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It's indeed great idea, parsi.
But, you're not the president of Afghanistan. So how do you will treat that?

What a childish remark. The nation has to decide something like that, a president of AFGHANISTAN will never do something like that. :mad:

Well people, what do you think of this?

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 03:17 PM

Ofcourse, I mean The Nation.
How could they possible to do all that? It seems if it is really easy, such as you want.
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Posted 21 July 2008 - 03:25 PM

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What a childish remark. The nation has to decide something like that, a president of AFGHANISTAN will never do something like that. :mad:


Well people, what do you think of this?




It seems, that dear Sherinak has no good knowledge about policy issues, but we are glad, that she is among us and we wish, that the number of our proud Tajik girls in this forum has increased.
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