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Tajik, no self-designation, a danger for Afghanistan Tajiks!!! Rate Topic: -----

#41 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 08:39 AM

[QUOTE=doodooli;3513]I am sure there are Tajiks - not "non-tajik" Dari/Persian speakers (Hazaras, Chahar Aimaq, Persianized Pashtuns, many Uzbeks - all over Afghanistan, but where do they form a majority ? It seems to me only in 5 provinces (or so) based on what I found on the internet. Around Herat and north of Kabul in a few provinces, right or wrong ? Please no wishful thinking, insults, or opinions. Back up your claims with statistics. Also, define clearly what you mean by Tajik. Here is something I found on the internet from Dari speaking Afghans' website: "The Tajiks are mostly Sunni Muslims and speak Persian. They live predominantly in the north-east and in the west."
http://www.afghan-ne...ups/tajiks.html
I am not saying I am right - I am just looking for facts, so please prove me wrong with facts and real statistics. I wish all of Afghanistan was "Tajik", but a wish does not equal a fact.[/QUOTE]

Do not believe each statistics, especially pashtun. In Afghanistan anybody could not know statistics in any way. Pushtuns can print everything, naming it as official statistic. In Uzbekistan too 'on official' Tajiks make only 5 % of population, but really they make 40 % (10-12 million)
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#42 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 08:56 AM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;3521]Do not believe each statistics, especially pashtun. In Afghanistan anybody could not know statistics in any way. Pushtuns can print everything, naming it as official statistic. In Uzbekistan too 'on official' Tajiks make only 5 % of population, but really they make 40 % (10-12 million)[/QUOTE]

dear afrasiab,

you are right on the issue of tajiks in uzbekistan. but doodoli has a point in the number of tajiks in south and east of the country. i agree with him as fact is something and wishes something else.

Rika Khana
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#43 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 10:38 AM

Maybe in south of Afghanistan Tajiks a little (I was not there ). But in central part and north of country Tajiks make majority. I against such opinion, that Tajiks live basically in Badakhshan and Panjsher. I was in such areas, as Takhor and Qunduz, there Tajiks - overwhelming majority. Also in Kabul, Balkh and many other areas. A minimum in half of territory of Afghanistan Tajiks make majority.
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#44 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 12:59 PM

[QUOTE=Afrasiab;3526]Maybe in south of Afghanistan Tajiks a little (I was not there ). But in central part and north of country Tajiks make majority. I against such opinion, that Tajiks live basically in Badakhshan and Panjsher. I was in such areas, as Takhor and Qunduz, there Tajiks - overwhelming majority. Also in Kabul, Balkh and many other areas. A minimum in half of territory of Afghanistan Tajiks make majority.[/QUOTE]

which silly person is saying that tajiks are only in badakhshan and panjshir as major ethnic groups? in central parts of afghanistan there are mostly hazara brothers.

Rika Khana
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#45 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 03:30 PM

One of our friends here said these words: "... but that it would be more likely to be absorbed into Iran in the future due to geography, and Panjsher area and other Tajik areas are more likely to be absrobed into tajikstan".

He will know own words. But I do not think, that he is silly
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#46 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 03:37 PM

[QUOTE=Rika Khana;3533]which silly person is saying that tajiks are only in badakhshan and panjshir as major ethnic groups? in central parts of afghanistan there are mostly hazara brothers.

Rika Khana[/QUOTE]

As I know, hazara basically live in Bamian, and in other areas of center of Afghanistan Tajiks make majority.
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#47 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 08:33 PM

Bamian City has a large Tajik population and there are Tajik villages in Daikundi and Bamian province.

Ghazni City which is located south of Kabul is 50% Tajik 25% pashtun 25% hazara.

kandahar City has a Big Tajik population

Gardez is still dominated by Tajiks but most of them are pashtunized.
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#48 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 07:33 AM

[quote=Afrasiab;3535]As I know, hazara basically live in Bamian, and in other areas of center of Afghanistan Tajiks make majority.[/quote]

where did you get this information? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ?
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#49 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 07:35 AM

[quote=Gul agha;3540]Bamian City has a large Tajik population and there are Tajik villages in Daikundi and Bamian province.

Ghazni City which is located south of Kabul is 50% Tajik 25% pashtun 25% hazara.

kandahar City has a Big Tajik population

Gardez is still dominated by Tajiks but most of them are pashtunized.[/quote]

Qandahar city has tajik population in Top Khana area, and they are shia muslim, but i am not sure how big they are. Gardez city has tajik population plus some zadrans who are persian speaking, but they dont dominate that area.

Rika Khana
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#50 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:49 PM

[quote=Rika Khana;3550]Qandahar city has tajik population in Top Khana area, and they are shia muslim, but i am not sure how big they are. Gardez city has tajik population plus some zadrans who are persian speaking, but they dont dominate that area.

Rika Khana[/quote]

Interesting, we have an ancestor from Qandahar who married one of our family while on pilgrimage to Karbala/Najaf. Therefore he must have been Tajik Shiite as I dont think there are Pashtoon shiites - right >
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#51 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:45 AM

[quote=doodooli;3574]Interesting, we have an ancestor from Qandahar who married one of our family while on pilgrimage to Karbala/Najaf. Therefore he must have been Tajik Shiite as I dont think there are Pashtoon shiites - right >[/quote]

There are no Pashtun Shias in Qandahar.

Ayatullah Asef Mohseni is a Qandahari Tajik.
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#52 User is offline   darya Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 05:13 PM

[quote=TajMahal;3296]dear Tajiks,

i wonder why Afghanistan Tajiks call themself Tajiks. If we examine any demographic map from Afghanistan we can cleary see that it is always shown Tajiks live only in Badakhchan, Kabul, Kunduz and Herat while Tajiks have to be found in the country everywhere. In Sistan, Helmand, Kandahar, Hazarajat, Farah, Laghman, Pakisa, Parwan, Panjsher etc.. Are Tajiks really stupid or are they just manipulated?? First we let Pashtuns devide us by denomination than by provinces (''Panjsheris, Sistanis, Heratis->''Farsiwans'') and cities and now we let them making themself again as dominate population while many sources of western scholars claim clearly Tajiks make at least 40% and maximum more than 50%. Dupree is one of those scholars. Please tell me why you call yourself Tajiks and not Khurasanians?? Khurasanians were the main inhabitent of Kandahar, Jalalabad, Paktia, Laghman and today Pashtuns claim that for themself. Where have all those ''Tajiks'' gone when today Tajiks are only found in Badakhshan, Kabul and Herat?? Because you are accepting of beeing Tajik, an immigrant from Tajikistan, our number of our own nation is very low in a country where we live since at least 4000 years. I want my country back, i want my Farah, my Sistan for myself!! I want more than half of Kandahar for myself!! I want Jalalabad for myself!! I want Pakisa, Parwan and Paktika for myself!!! Stand up and defend your own nation!!! Drop off the name Tajik even if he has a historical meaning that goes back to the times of the Kushanians. Tajik was never our oun self-designation only used by foreigners and pray to god that he give us courage, strength and support. Its time for him to do now also one good think for us. We have prayed enough to him, we cared enough his rules, read enough his quran, payed enough blood and money, have made enough pilgrimage and praising enough his name for more than 1000 years and we did enough good thing for Islam. We were degraded enough by others and didnt took revenge only because of him and his qualities. We died bottomless enough for centuries and do still today under Pashtunism. Now it is his turn to give us something back IF HE IS THE GOD OF HUMEN AND NOT OF SOME DIRTY ARABS!!!

Dont call yourself Tajik, call yourself Khurasani and that is the first step we have to do to come one step further. With using Khurasani automatically all provinces will symbolize ''Tajiks'' and our demofraphic number will increase!!! WAKE UP!!! HOW LONG DO YOU WANT TO BE BLIND AND IGNORING THE GAMES OF PASHTUNS???[/quote]

why do you hate other etnicities in afghanistan, we are all people and are part of afghanistan I dont see why hate is the solution for afghanistan, we must unite against our neighbours like iran and pakistan who destroyed our country. We must stand against americans and russians because they are destroying our beloved country.
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#53 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 06:05 PM

Could you please comment on phrases that I bolded from your qoute? Thank you.

[quote=darya;7352]why do you hate other etnicities in afghanistan, we are all people and are part of afghanistan I dont see why hate is the solution for afghanistan, we must unite against our neighbours like iran and pakistan who destroyed our country. We must stand against americans and russians because they are destroying our beloved country.[/quote]
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#54 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:40 PM

The issue has been discussed many times before and I prefer to stick to my original opinion: Tajiks are Persian. Don't create new terms please which will in turn divide us further. Tajik is a synonym of Persian and our cultural dominion goes well beyond Khorasan. How about Tajiks (Persians) of Iran and Tajikistan? Why to accentuate on Tajiks (Persians) of Afghanistan only?


[quote=TajMahal;3296]dear Tajiks,

i wonder why Afghanistan Tajiks call themself Tajiks. If we examine any demographic map from Afghanistan we can cleary see that it is always shown Tajiks live only in Badakhchan, Kabul, Kunduz and Herat while Tajiks have to be found in the country everywhere. In Sistan, Helmand, Kandahar, Hazarajat, Farah, Laghman, Pakisa, Parwan, Panjsher etc.. Are Tajiks really stupid or are they just manipulated?? First we let Pashtuns devide us by denomination than by provinces (''Panjsheris, Sistanis, Heratis->''Farsiwans'') and cities and now we let them making themself again as dominate population while many sources of western scholars claim clearly Tajiks make at least 40% and maximum more than 50%. Dupree is one of those scholars. Please tell me why you call yourself Tajiks and not Khurasanians?? Khurasanians were the main inhabitent of Kandahar, Jalalabad, Paktia, Laghman and today Pashtuns claim that for themself. Where have all those ''Tajiks'' gone when today Tajiks are only found in Badakhshan, Kabul and Herat?? Because you are accepting of beeing Tajik, an immigrant from Tajikistan, our number of our own nation is very low in a country where we live since at least 4000 years. I want my country back, i want my Farah, my Sistan for myself!! I want more than half of Kandahar for myself!! I want Jalalabad for myself!! I want Pakisa, Parwan and Paktika for myself!!! Stand up and defend your own nation!!! Drop off the name Tajik even if he has a historical meaning that goes back to the times of the Kushanians. Tajik was never our oun self-designation only used by foreigners and pray to god that he give us courage, strength and support. It?s time for him to do now also one good think for us. We have prayed enough to him, we cared enough his rules, read enough his quran, payed enough blood and money, have made enough pilgrimage and praising enough his name for more than 1000 years and we did enough good thing for Islam. We were degraded enough by others and didn?t took revenge only because of him and his qualities. We died bottomless enough for centuries and do still today under Pashtunism. Now it is his turn to give us something back IF HE IS THE GOD OF HUMEN AND NOT OF SOME DIRTY ARABS!!!

Don?t call yourself Tajik, call yourself Khurasani and that is the first step we have to do to come one step further. With using Khurasani automatically all provinces will symbolize ''Tajiks'' and our demofraphic number will increase!!! WAKE UP!!! HOW LONG DO YOU WANT TO BE BLIND AND IGNORING THE GAMES OF PASHTUNS???[/quote]
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#55 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:55 PM

[quote=darya;7352]why do you hate other etnicities in afghanistan, we are all people and are part of afghanistan I dont see why hate is the solution for afghanistan, we must unite against our neighbours like iran and pakistan who destroyed our country. We must stand against americans and russians because they are destroying our beloved country.[/quote]

You asked this question from Tajmahal and we havent seen him here for a very long time. so i have to answer your question

1-It is a forum and there are alot of people with different opinions, so you cant generalize anything.

2-We definately dont hate the other ethnicities of the country called afghanistan and this is for sure. We have always sought good relationship with hazaras, uzbeks, turkmens etc and we will do so.

4-Hate is never a solution to any problem in this world, hate creates more problems. So, there will be a Full Stop to this unholly word.

5-We are not uniting against no one, because we dont need to.

6-As per Pushtoons, again: we dont hate them, we have been subjected to injustice for long long time by pushtoon rulers, that is we are talking about and we want to put an end to pushton domination of afghanistan where the other ethnic groups are more than the pushtoons and are majority. We want equal treatment and justice, hate doesnt have place among us.
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#56 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 02:44 PM

[quote=darya;7352]why do you hate other etnicities in afghanistan, we are all people and are part of afghanistan I dont see why hate is the solution for afghanistan, we must unite against our neighbours like iran and pakistan who destroyed our country. We must stand against americans and russians because they are destroying our beloved country.[/quote]

Pashtun e Ghoolaki, kodak e Hamjenzbas, it is not Pakiland nor Iran that is YOUR enemy but it is youself...it is your own tribalic system and your own dirty nation. Those ''Pakistanis'' you everytime call are not Punjabis nor Sindhis but those 16% terroristic pakistani tribalic nation of your so-called Pathanes. It is also not Iran but so-called ''Balochistani Awghans'', a nomadic group belonging to your folk. Taliban were not Pakis nor Iranians but 90% of your dirty nation, your dirty Awghan Kuchis as main supporter and your dirty turkish cousins your so beloved homosexual Kandahari and Yusuffzai Pakhtanos with their Abdali masters who were supporting pashtun national chauvinism. WE MUST STAND AGAINST YOUR DIRTY DAJJAL-ZAI QAUM, against your dirty ancestral turko-mongolian mentality, not aginst Pakistan (Punjab, Baloch, Sindhi, Kalashi) but against Awghans...dirty nomadic, homosexual Awghans who do not want to learn from their bloody past...how many times you want get bloody noses?? Havent you enough?? For you donkies the whole world is an enemy but never youself. Ei to nalati ....ai awlaada e ulaagh ....the only cause are you, not Iran not Pakistan, not America, ....only YOU...simply YOU!!!!! Or dont you kidnappe, killing, looting, spiting your own nation.., tribes vs tribes??? Pashtun e be-aqel...koraki..

Fazit: Noone is your ''enemy'', only your own nation but not only an enemy agains the own but also against the entire world and against everything that is not awghan-like....be it a stone, a tree, water, an ant....only a donky and a dog are respected as Awghans...typical Pakhtuns tststs

Ps: SURE NON-AWGHANS HATE AWGHANS....OUR HATE IS THE CAUSE WHY EVEN YOUR DIRTY SOCALLED ROYAL FAMILY IS TODAY BEGGING IN PARSISTANI-KABUL for bread and water and why you are dying. The same way dirty mf Awghans hate everything persian/tajik and try to awghanize (make sth to donky-like/ape-like/doggy lifestyle).
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#57 User is offline   Kambiz Icon

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 10:55 PM

Do not divide us into "Tajikistan Tajiks" and "Afghanistan Tajiks" please. How about "Iran Tajiks"? lol
We are the same Persian nation. No need to bring about all these geo terms and divide us further. We are Persians of the world.

[quote=TajMahal;3326]It was not addressed to Tajikistan-Tajiks but to Afghanistan Tajiks. Every Tajik that come from that country know what the problem with this word we have. Pashtuns make us to a minority nation while we are for sure the total majority. Those are affected with this will understand me. I am not against the holly name T?jik but we from Afghanistan shouldn?t use it. We are not immigrants that moved to Afghanistan during the soviet occupation and we are not a minority. If you study a map of Afghanistan you will see Tajiks are only shown in Badakhchan, Herat and Kabul while we are spreaden across the country. I think we Afghanistan-Tajiks need our old name and (inshallah) when were are united again we will call us again T?jik. Everything demands it?s price. For you who r from Tajikistan it does not matter if you call yourself Tajik or Khurasani since the Khurasanians were/are originally the Tajiks and the name T?jik describes only your statue as sub-ruler during the last 1000 years. Remember, T?jiks were always the noble administrations of many iranian and non-iranian dynasties. The Tajik-Turk symbiose was responsible for many great and most powerful middle-age states. All of us can be proud of that but fact is that today this name in Afghanistan is a demise and a defamation we never lived in that country and we are not from that country. Don?t get angry about it just accept it. As someone who is seeking for charities of Tajiks you should accept that as one of the first steps for oppressed Tajiks in Afghanistan and also in Uzbekistan. We in Afghanistan can be a proto-model of rebellion against our enemies. I?m sure, after us many Tajiks from Uzbekistan and other countries will do the same.

Yours sincerely
TajMahal Tajik

Ps:Arabs killed my brother but it has nothing to do with that issue ![/quote]
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#58 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 04:02 PM

Ta-Yuechi (selfdesignation)->Ta-Hia/Da-Xia (chin. in the 2nd century)->Taaji (ind.)->Dashi(chin. Tang-Dyn.)->Tazicler (turk.)->Taji(k) (pers.). Eastern Iranians adoptet the name of their earlier ruler the Tocharians and in someway also Sassanians since Indians and Tibetans refer(d) them also as Tajiks.
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#59 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 04:34 PM

The Taklamakan Mummies(Tocharian mummies)

In the late 1980's, perfectly preserved 3000-year-old mummies began appearing in a remote Taklamakan desert. They had long reddish-blond hair, European features and didn't appear to be the ancestors of modern-day Chinese people. Archaeologists now think they may have been the citizens of an ancient civilization that existed at the crossroads between China and Europe.

Victor Mair, a specialist in the ancient corpses and co-author of Mummies of the Tarim Basin, said:"Modern DNA and ancient DNA show that Uighurs, Kazaks, Krygyzs, the peoples of Central Asia are all mixed Caucasian and East Asian. The modern and ancient DNA tell the same story.

The discoveries in the 1980s of the undisturbed 4,000-year-old Beauty of Loulan and the younger 3,000-year-old body of the Charchan Man are legendary in world archaeological circles for the fine state of their preservation and for the wealth of knowledge they bring to modern research. In the second millennium BC, the oldest mummies, like the Loulan Beauty, were the earliest settlers in the Tarim Basin.

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The first Tocharian Nordic mummy found in 1989: a White female with long blond hair, finely preserved by the arid desert atmosphere of the Taklamakan desert. Based on her partially dismembered limbs and gouged out eyes, archaeologists believe she was a sacrificial victim.

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This mummified boy, approximately one-year-old, was found in the same grave. He, too, is believed to have been a sacrificial victim who was buried alive.

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A Tocharian female mummy with long flaxen blond hair, perfectly preserved in ponytails. Items of weaved material, identical to Celtic cloth, definitively proved the Indo-European origins of the Tocharians, who not only built the fantastic Silk Road cities which today lie deserted, but who are also credited with bringing Buddhism, horses, the saddle, and iron working to China. This mummy was approximately 40-years old, was found in the main chamber of the same tomb. Her tall stature, high nose, and red hair indicate that she was of European descent.

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This mummy of an 18 to 20 year old woman is on display at a museum in Khumul. Her features, particularly her overbite, indicate Caucasian heritage.

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A Tocharian man with red-blond hair; his clear European features still visible after nearly 3,500 years in his desert grave in Taklamakan. This mummified man was approximately 40 years old at the time of his death.

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"Cherchen Man" and Family (China)
A family of immaculately preserved, 3,000-year-old caucasian mummies were found in East Turkistan, in 1978. Though it was commonly believed that the first contact between East Turkistan and the West occurred relatively late in world history around the middle of the second century B.C. carbon dating has shown that the Cherchen man and his family died 900 years earlier. They were preserved naturally by the salty and dry Chinese landscape.

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One of the most famous Tocharian mummies found, the so-called "Beauty of Loulan"; and right, her face as reconstructed by an artist.

Beauty of Loulan The oldest mummies found in the Tarim Basin come from Loulan located at the east end of the egg shaped Taklamakan Desert. Dressed only in shades of brown, she was alive as early as 2000 B.C. during the era of Abraham and the patriarchs. She died when she was about 40. Next to her head there is a basket which contains grains of wheat.

AND TO SHOW YOU TAJIKS STILL HAVE CAUCASIDE AND MEDITERRANIAN FEATURES YOU CAN COMPARE THE LADY LOULAN WITH THAT LADY BELOW (on the next days i will delete the image)

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Meanwhile, Yingpan Man, a nearly perfectly preserved 2,000-year-old Caucasoid mummy, discovered in 1995 in the region that bears his name, has been seen as the best preserved of all the undisturbed mummies that have so far been found.

Yingpan Man not only had a gold foil death mask -- a Greek tradition -- covering his blonde bearded face, but also wore elaborate golden embroidered red and maroon garments with seemingly Western European designs.

His nearly 2.00 meter (six-foot, six-inch) long body is the tallest of all the mummies found so far and the clothes and artifacts discovered in the surrounding tombs suggest the highest level of Caucasoid civilization in the ancient Tarim Basin region.

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http://www.xjtour.ne...koummomie_g.jpg

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Kushan worshipper (left) with Zeus/Serapis/Ohrmazd, Bactria, 3rd century CE.

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Kushan worshipper (left) with Pharro, Bactria, 3rd century CE

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Kushan worshipper (left) with Shiva/Oesho, Bactria, 3rd century CE.

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CAN YOU SEE YOURSELF ON THEIR FACES? I can it.
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