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Hazara - a part of Great Tajikistan Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 02:55 PM

Hazaras are our brothers (not by blood, but by language and culture). They in future should be a part of United Tajikistan (Khorosan). They will have autonomous region in our united tajik country.

What do you think about it?
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#2 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 03:03 PM

[quote=Afrasiab;3570]Hazaras are our brothers (not by blood, but by language and culture). [/quote]

Yes, they are our brothers. It is very very crucial not only to us, but also for our hazara brothers to be united. we have both suffered big time, got one language, one culture and alot more in common. we cant do anything without each other. we should really work hard having communication with them and build up friendship with them. our alliance shouldnt only be stratigically, but in all areas. we need real unity and unity forever with them. unfortunatley we all did make mistakes(them and us) to bring damages to our relationships. Great masoud tried hard to repair those damages during the resistance time, but unfortunately some silly politicians wasted all those efforts for their personal gains. one of our failuirs is hazaras siding with karzai strongly, and even they rejected the idea of the united front. the difference also emerged when Ustad Muhaqiq voted to Sayaf in the parliament. we should ask from ourselves, why did he vote for sayaf? think guys, for sayaf and no one else, perhaps we didnt know the importance of our aliance with them. we wasted time and opportunity.

Rika Khana
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#3 User is offline   Rostam Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:01 AM

[quote=Afrasiab;3570]Hazaras are our brothers (not by blood, but by language and culture). They in future should be a part of United Tajikistan (Khorosan). They will have autonomous region in our united tajik country.

What do you think about it?[/quote]
Yes you are right! crimes are always commited agianst Hazaras...they have never commited crimes against others!
And the hate and discrimination against Hazaras is based on nothing....few Hazaras which I know are very very good human beings!
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#4 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:46 AM

[quote=Afrasiab;3570]Hazaras are our brothers (not by blood, but by language and culture). They in future should be a part of United Tajikistan (Khorosan). They will have autonomous region in our united tajik country.

What do you think about it?[/quote]

What do Hazaras think ? Do they want to be part of this future country, or are they more proud of their mongol heritage and shiite faith ? Have their shown any affinity with Tajiks ? (I have seen stuff on internet where they are very proud to be purest descendants of Mongols outside Mongolia, and appartently this is backed by genetic studies. )
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#5 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 07:44 AM

[quote=doodooli;3586]What do Hazaras think ? Do they want to be part of this future country, or are they more proud of their mongol heritage and shiite faith ? Have their shown any affinity with Tajiks ? (I have seen stuff on internet where they are very proud to be purest descendants of Mongols outside Mongolia, and appartently this is backed by genetic studies. )[/quote]

yes you are right. and blood shouldnt be an issue if we are dealing with the same problem and having the same problem. if they are happy to be called descendants of mongals then let them be.
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#6 User is offline   Super Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:26 AM

To the best of my understanding, and if I am not mistaken, Tajiks came to power twice in the last 300 years in Afghanistan, and it was Hazaras who stood up against them: they helped Nadir Shah to throw down the 9 month kingdom of Habibullah Kalakani, and then, from 1992 to 1996, they fought against the new established Islamic state of Afghanistan governed by Ustad Rabani. Sadly, in both times, they allied with Pashtuns against Tajiks. And we know that history repeats itself!
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#7 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 10:12 AM

[quote=doodooli;3586]What do Hazaras think ? Do they want to be part of this future country, or are they more proud of their mongol heritage and shiite faith ? Have their shown any affinity with Tajiks ? (I have seen stuff on internet where they are very proud to be purest descendants of Mongols outside Mongolia, and appartently this is backed by genetic studies. )[/quote]

To live in Tajik state is best variant for Hazara. They cannot create own state. Even if will they create own state it will be small and will appear under authority of others. And in structure of Great Tajikistan they will be citizens of powerful state and they will have a autonomous region.
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#8 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:16 PM

[quote=Superior;3616]To the best of my understanding, and if I am not mistaken, Tajiks came to power twice in the last 300 years in Afghanistan, and it was Hazaras who stood up against them: they helped Nadir Shah to throw down the 9 month kingdom of Habibullah Kalakani, and then, from 1992 to 1996, they fought against the new established Islamic state of Afghanistan governed by Ustad Rabani. Sadly, in both times, they allied with Pashtuns against Tajiks. And we know that history repeats itself![/quote]

you are totally right. but we cant continue like this, they sided with them and look at what the taliban pushtoons did to them. it's time to rethink our positions with each other, we(both of us) need to do something repair the damages. nothing is imposible only eforts and hard work is needed as well as being clear and honest with each other.

Rika Khana
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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:57 PM

Why should we try to win them over? Actually, they should be willing to join us, because they know who their real enemies are, their allies with Pashtun didn't work and will never work; they get used like dolls by Pashtun politicians. But still they are more willing to be at the service of Pashtuns.

When Mujahidin got power in Kabul, Ali Mazari urged for the post of Prime minister, the recognation of Shiaism, .. and so on, which were out of question at that time. Then with the backing of Iran, they took part, along with Gulbudin in destruction and torturing people in Kabul.

Shortly: we can merely relay on our own Tajiks, uniting them will make us more strong and powerful, than running after Hazaras and Uzbeks to unite with us. We should have a friendly policy towards all other ethnic groups.
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#10 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 04:40 PM

[quote=Superior;3630]

Shortly: we can merely relay on our own Tajiks, uniting them will make us more strong and powerful, than running after Hazaras and Uzbeks to unite with us. We should have a friendly policy towards all other ethnic groups.[/quote]

very true, i agree with you.

Rika Khana
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#11 User is offline   Nastoh Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 02:14 AM

These were Hazaraz biggest mistakes. But lets see why they allied with Pashtuns twice? What made them to do so? I think there has been a misunderstanding and mistrust between Hazaras and Tajiks in spite of sharing same language and culture. May be religions (Shia-Suni) also played a negative role.
Hazaras dont consider Tajiks as enemies but more as rivals with whom they should compete over power etc. They cant do the same with Pashtus because they know that first of all it is impossible and secondly it can be dangerous. Another reason for which Hazaras have always sided with Pashtuns every time Tajiks got the power is because Hazara cities and towns are located in central Afghanistan and this part of the country can easily be encircled and isolated by Pashtuns if Hazaras go against Pashtun rulers. May be this fear and this vulnerability caused Hazaras to avoid any kind of confrontation with Pashtuns when they were out of power.
But today things have changed and especially the creation of "Northern Alliance" and working under one command proved that we all Hazaras and Tajiks can and should work together and defend our land and our values against any aggressor from any direction. Now Hazaras have a better understanding of situation and they trust Tajiks more than Pashtuns. They have also learned a lot from their past mistakes. In fact after Mazari was killed, they understood their political mistake and from that time, they changed their policy and preferred working with Massoud rather than any other Pashtun leader. I am sure that Hazaras have more in common with Tajiks than they do with Pashtuns and if anything happens, it is in their advantage to be in Tajiks side.
[quote=Superior;3616]To the best of my understanding, and if I am not mistaken, Tajiks came to power twice in the last 300 years in Afghanistan, and it was Hazaras who stood up against them: they helped Nadir Shah to throw down the 9 month kingdom of Habibullah Kalakani, and then, from 1992 to 1996, they fought against the new established Islamic state of Afghanistan governed by Ustad Rabani. Sadly, in both times, they allied with Pashtuns against Tajiks. And we know that history repeats itself![/quote]
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#12 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:50 AM

sometimes i ask myself. why couldnt we make aliances, i mean long last aliances with uzbeks and hazaras? the pushtoons could do that inspite of world apart differences with them, despite the fact that they had a history of committing crimes against them. during ustad rabani time we had conflict with them, even upto now it is going on, ustad muhaqiq voted to sayaf in parliament, can you imagine if a hazara vote to sayaf? what went wrong? why our leaders werent capable of building bridges with them? why couldnt we manage the situation. nastoh jan answered some of the questions and superiior jan as well, i think the lack of understanding and mismanagment of our leaders also played a role.

Rika Khana
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#13 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 12:05 PM

[quote=Superior;3616]To the best of my understanding, and if I am not mistaken, Tajiks came to power twice in the last 300 years in Afghanistan, and it was Hazaras who stood up against them: they helped Nadir Shah to throw down the 9 month kingdom of Habibullah Kalakani, and then, from 1992 to 1996, they fought against the new established Islamic state of Afghanistan governed by Ustad Rabani. Sadly, in both times, they allied with Pashtuns against Tajiks. And we know that history repeats itself![/quote]

Emir Habibullah has lost not because of Hazara people. He has lost because of our foreign enemies - Russians (Moscow). Against Emir Habibulla then struggled not only aughans or Hazara, but also some Tajik groups. Main mistake of Habibulla was that he has disregarded interests of Hazara and even Tajiks of other regions. He presented all of state posts for own "hamshahri"-es from Kuhdoman and has lost confidence of people. Regionalism is a greater mistake for our nation. Rabbani too was mistaken thus. Rabbanis ministers basically were from his native district.
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#14 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 02:11 PM

[quote=Afrasiab;3670]Emir Habibullah has lost not because of Hazara people. He has lost because of our foreign enemies - Russians (Moscow). Against Emir Habibulla then struggled not only aughans or Hazara, but also some Tajik groups. Main mistake of Habibulla was that he has disregarded interests of Hazara and even Tajiks of other regions. He presented all of state posts for own "hamshahri"-es from Kuhdoman and has lost confidence of people. Regionalism is a greater mistake for our nation. Rabbani too was mistaken thus. Rabbanis ministers basically were from his native district.[/quote]

That is wrong. BS. He was not looking for it
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#15 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 03:50 PM

We need to work with proTajik forces among hazara. If they are often united with aughans, it means, that aughans better conduct propagation among hazara than us. But only silly and stupid hazara groups will be united with aughans against own national interests. With wild aughans hazara with shia mazhab never can live without wars.
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#16 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 04:55 PM

your right but how do you want to make them that clear? In the past we told them not to work with Aughans. They are against Persian language, history, culture. They are against Hazara and Tajiks but they didn
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#17 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:04 PM

[quote=Parsistani;3679]That is wrong. BS. He was not looking for it
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#18 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:48 PM

[quote=Gul agha;3710]Afrasiab is right. Amir Habibullah Kalakani's only mistake was that he brought uneducated individuals and took advices from these illiterates. The only Smart Politician during Habibullah's time was Hussain Charikari.[/quote]

he was trusting thieves. He was working were close with the ''royal'' family. He even married one of their daughters.
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#19 User is offline   Nastoh Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:01 PM

[quote=Gul agha;3710]Afrasiab is right. Amir Habibullah Kalakani's only mistake was that he brought uneducated individuals and took advices from these illiterates. The only Smart Politician during Habibullah's time was Hussain Charikari.[/quote]
I believe Habibullah didn't have uneducated advisers. In contrary, he had all educated and respectful people in his government. Khalilullah Khalili was one of them.
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#20 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:45 PM

Well your mongols are being sent back to your Afghanistan, and not the other way around. If you have any balls send them to mongolia. And stop using the word pars in your nickname, making it dirtym, petty hateful racist.

[quote=Parsistani;3679]That is wrong. BS. He was not looking for it
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