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Baba Ghafurov - Tajik historian Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 06:17 PM

Salam,

has someone read the book about Tajiks and their origine from Baba Ghafurov? I need some citations what he has written about the origine of the term Tajik. If you have his book, please scan the passage or try to translate it for me 1:1.

THANKS

Ps:what is the name of his book?
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#2 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:56 AM

How can an entire people be orgiinate from one Baba Dudulov ? This is ridiculous :confused:

[quote=Parsistani;3578]Salam,

has someone read the book about Tajiks and their origine from Baba Ghafurov? I need some citations what he has written about the origine of the term Tajik. If you have his book, please scan the passage or try to translate it for me 1:1.

THANKS

Ps:what is the name of his book?[/quote]
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#3 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 03:59 AM

Dear Doodooli,

As far as I know, "Tajiks" of Bobojon Ghafurov is one of the authentic sources of the origins of Tajik ethnicity. I don't think it is ridiculous but instead it would be better for all of us to bear in mind that "Tajiks" of Bobojon Ghafurov has more sources to validate his statements than one might actually think. I am rereading "Tajiks" of Bobojon Ghafurov nowadays as soon as I got that message, I will scan and post it. Peace to all of you brothers.


Truly,


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#4 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 04:14 AM

Oh - I am sorry, I misunderstod. I think what you mean is a book by ghafurov, not himself. I thought all Tajiks originated from one father - like Adam / Eve story, which is why I thought it is ridiculous. But if you jhave excerpts from the book please post it. Thanks.

[quote=PORS;3593]Dear Doodooli,

As far as I know, "Tajiks" of Bobojon Ghafurov is one of the authentic sources of the origins of Tajik ethnicity. I don't think it is ridiculous but instead it would be better for all of us to bear in mind that "Tajiks" of Bobojon Ghafurov has more sources to validate his statements than one might actually think. I am rereading "Tajiks" of Bobojon Ghafurov nowadays as soon as I got that message, I will scan and post it. Peace to all of you brothers.


Truly,


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#5 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:36 AM

[quote=doodooli;3587]How can an entire people be orgiinate from one Baba Dudulov ? This is ridiculous :confused: [/quote]

Please, do not scoff at great name of Bobojon Ghafurov. He is a national hero of Tajikistan and one of great Tajiks of 20 centuries
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#6 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:37 AM

[quote=Parsistani;3578]Salam,

has someone read the book about Tajiks and their origine from Baba Ghafurov? I need some citations what he has written about the origine of the term Tajik. If you have his book, please scan the passage or try to translate it for me 1:1.

THANKS

Ps:what is the name of his book?[/quote]

Maybe you can find something here: http://www.khudshino.../Tojikiston.pdf.
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Posted 06 December 2007 - 03:34 PM

Hi Doodooli,

That's alright. I am sorry if I expressed myself not in a proper way. I hope we understand each other. Thank you for getting it right.

In the meantime, if you read book about Bobojon Ghafurov you will know how much he has done for the name of "Tajik" and in order to raise this name to a Sun. If you get a chance to read Ahror Mukhtorov's book called "Bobojon Ghafurov" you will get a clear sense of what is to be a GREAT TAJIK and serve for our nation. Unfortunately, he died couple of months ago, but he will stay in our hearts and mind as a great Tajik. Thanks.


http://www.asiaplus....s/50/23203.html

Truly,


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#8 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 05:01 AM

I read a book called "Tajikan dar Gharne Bistom" by Salim Ayyub Zadeh, which talks about Baba Jan Ghafurov alongside Sadredding eini as the two major nation builders. I forgot the name before ... I remember now. Also, I watched a movie called Sokout (Silence) by Makhmalbaf about a blind boy in Tajikistan. The people and scenery and simplicity are all wonderful and beautiful. Do you know which part of Tajikistant the movie was shot in ? Was it in Ferghana Valley near Khujand ? I also heard Makhamalbaf (iranian film director) made Tajikistan his new homeland and lives there now.

[quote=PORS;3635]Hi Doodooli,

That's alright. I am sorry if I expressed myself not in a proper way. I hope we understand each other. Thank you for getting it right.

In the meantime, if you read book about Bobojon Ghafurov you will know how much he has done for the name of "Tajik" and in order to raise this name to a Sun. If you get a chance to read Ahror Mukhtorov's book called "Bobojon Ghafurov" you will get a clear sense of what is to be a GREAT TAJIK and serve for our nation. Unfortunately, he died couple of months ago, but he will stay in our hearts and mind as a great Tajik. Thanks.


http://www.asiaplus....s/50/23203.html

Truly,


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#9 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 05:35 AM

Doorood Doodooli,

I am so glad that you have read the book "Tajikan dar gharne bistom". I got a copy of it recently and planning to read it, too. Soon. :) I did not watch the movie Sokout, but I will look for it. If you have any direct link that I could access and get it and if you could share it, that would be wonderful.

Regarding Ferghana valley, yes actually Khujand, Asht, Isfara, Konibodom and some other small towns lie in Ferghana valley. Some Uzbak territories also located within Ferghana valley.

The iranian producer you have talked about, sounds interesting to me. I have never heard about him in Tajikistan, however, I am curious what kind of film did he produce and how he is living in Tajikistan. I think Tajikistan more than welcome to host such people like Makhamalbaf (I am not sure whether I spelled his name right or not). Anyways, it's great to hear from you.


Piroz bemoned,



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#10 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 05:43 AM

Set in Tajikistan, this deeply affecting film from celebrated Iranian director Mohsen Makhmalbaf stars Nadereh Abdelahyeva, Tahmineh Normatova and Goibibi Ziadolahyeva. In this moving tale, a young, blind apprentice who works to keep musical instruments in tip-top shape grows highly attuned to his surroundings, too, finding the rhythms of his days and nights and sharpening his sensitivity to the melody of everyday life.
http://www.netflix.c...=1296518471_2_0


[quote=PORS;3825]Doorood Doodooli,

I am so glad that you have read the book "Tajikan dar gharne bistom". I got a copy of it recently and planning to read it, too. Soon. :) I did not watch the movie Sokout, but I will look for it. If you have any direct link that I could access and get it and if you could share it, that would be wonderful.

Regarding Ferghana valley, yes actually Khujand, Asht, Isfara, Konibodom and some other small towns lie in Ferghana valley. Some Uzbak territories also located within Ferghana valley.

The iranian producer you have talked about, sounds interesting to me. I have never heard about him in Tajikistan, however, I am curious what kind of film did he produce and how he is living in Tajikistan. I think Tajikistan more than welcome to host such people like Makhamalbaf (I am not sure whether I spelled his name right or not). Anyways, it's great to hear from you.


Piroz bemoned,



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#11 User is offline   Nader Shah Icon

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 05:50 AM

Apparently he has made more movies in tajikistan, one called sex and philosophy, with music by the talented Daler Nazarov ... (see below for webpage)

http://www.makhmalba...movies.php?m=49

Here is more on Wikipedia (it says he is in Kabul but I think he might be living in Dushanbe now):
http://en.wikipedia....hsen_Makhmalbaf
Excerpts:
Makhmalbaf also founded a non-governmental organization for enabling Afghan children to go to school in Iran; by means of changes in Iranian laws due to his campaigns, he succeeded in sending tens of thousands of Afghan children to schools in Iran.
Today he lives with his family in Kabul, where he is helping to build schools and hospitals. He has also assisted an Afghan director to produce a movie. His daughter Samira has also directed a movie in Afghanistan, entitled At Five in the Afternoon.
Persian cinema in Afghanistan is slowly on the rise, after a long period of silence. Before the September 11 attacks, Makhmalbaf attracted global attention to Afghanistan with his celebrated movie, Kandahar. Kandahar was an attempt to tell the world about a forgotten country. Later on, Yassamin Maleknasr, Abolfazl Jalili, Samira Makhmalbaf and Siddiq Barmak made significant contributions to Persian cinema in Afghanistan. Siddiq Barmak is also director of the Afghan Children Education Movement (ACEM), an association that promotes literacy, culture and the arts, founded by Makhmalbaf. The school trains actors and directors for the emerging Afghan cinema.
In Tajikistan, Makhmalbaf is playing the same role as he played in the reconstruction of the cinema of post-Taliban Afghanistan. 1st Didar Film Festival, the first Film festival in Tajikistan, was held in 2004.


(Talks about his work in Afghanistan and Tajikistan also ... near the end)

[quote=PORS;3825]Doorood Doodooli,

I am so glad that you have read the book "Tajikan dar gharne bistom". I got a copy of it recently and planning to read it, too. Soon. :) I did not watch the movie Sokout, but I will look for it. If you have any direct link that I could access and get it and if you could share it, that would be wonderful.

Regarding Ferghana valley, yes actually Khujand, Asht, Isfara, Konibodom and some other small towns lie in Ferghana valley. Some Uzbak territories also located within Ferghana valley.

The iranian producer you have talked about, sounds interesting to me. I have never heard about him in Tajikistan, however, I am curious what kind of film did he produce and how he is living in Tajikistan. I think Tajikistan more than welcome to host such people like Makhamalbaf (I am not sure whether I spelled his name right or not). Anyways, it's great to hear from you.


Piroz bemoned,



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#12 User is offline   PORS Icon

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 07:02 AM

Has anyone seen Daler Nazarov's film about love and philosophy. I don't remember well, but I have seen that once and I just loved that film. The way it depicts the relationship between love and philosophy is great. And Daler Nazarov plays it for great.

Doodooli, I am reading some links that you posted about Mohsen and it's very interesting. Anyone who hasn't read it yet, I HIGHLY recommend to read. I will try to find the film, "Silence" online, so everybody could watch it and enjoy it.



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#13 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 09:44 AM

[quote=doodooli;3826]Set in Tajikistan, this deeply affecting film from celebrated Iranian director Mohsen Makhmalbaf stars Nadereh Abdelahyeva, Tahmineh Normatova and Goibibi Ziadolahyeva. In this moving tale, a young, blind apprentice who works to keep musical instruments in tip-top shape grows highly attuned to his surroundings, too, finding the rhythms of his days and nights and sharpening his sensitivity to the melody of everyday life.
http://www.netflix.c...=1296518471_2_0[/quote]

I saw this film. Good film. This film is shot in Dushanbe and villages around of capital.
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Posted 10 December 2007 - 09:52 AM

[quote=doodooli;3826]Set in Tajikistan, this deeply affecting film from celebrated Iranian director Mohsen Makhmalbaf stars Nadereh Abdelahyeva, Tahmineh Normatova and Goibibi Ziadolahyeva. In this moving tale, a young, blind apprentice who works to keep musical instruments in tip-top shape grows highly attuned to his surroundings, too, finding the rhythms of his days and nights and sharpening his sensitivity to the melody of everyday life.
http://www.netflix.c...=1296518471_2_0[/quote]

I saw this film. Good film. This film is shot in Dushanbe and villages around of capital.
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#15 User is offline   Jahongir Icon

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 10:29 PM

Salom dear Tajik brothers and sisters!
Since this thread started with the search for the meaning of the word Tajik, I wish to add my own two cents.
As a student of history, I can give you few possible theories about the etymology of the word Tajik. But I must warn you that unfortunately, Bobojon Ghafurov's ability to write about our history was severely under control, so he could not actually write everything he wanted to, whether or not he had the right information.

One possible meaning of the word Tajik comes from our word for "the crown", that is to say toj, which would refer to the hats worn by our ancestors who lived in the lands of Sogdiana (Sughuda/Sughd) and Baktria (Bakhtar/Balkh). The hats looked like crowns and so the people came to be known as "those who wear crowns"

Another possible meaning of the word Tajik comes from the name that the Arabs gave to all Persian speaking people beyond the Amu Darya. The Arabs met the Turkic speaking people of Central Asia, and then later met the other major ethnic group, the Tajiks. For the conquering musulman armies, there were only two ethnic groups beyond the river (Mawara-un-ahr), the Turks and Tajiks. For them, the name Tajik sounded very much like one of the important Arab clans, but you can be certain that the word itself did not come from the Arabic; they only realized that there were two different people in Mawaraunahr, the name of one of whom sounded very much like on of the Arabic clans, and the word for Turk already was familiar for them.

We should all realize one thing, and that is today unfortunately there is no defenite record left which could help us trace the word Tajik. During the Soviet Union, a lot of books were "lost", which would allow the new generation of Tajiks understand about their roots, but that was counter to the policy of the government at the time.
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#16 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 01:12 AM

[quote=Jahongir;3840]Salom dear Tajik brothers and sisters!
Since this thread started with the search for the meaning of the word Tajik, I wish to add my own two cents.
As a student of history, I can give you few possible theories about the etymology of the word Tajik. But I must warn you that unfortunately, Bobojon Ghafurov's ability to write about our history was severely under control, so he could not actually write everything he wanted to, whether or not he had the right information.

One possible meaning of the word Tajik comes from our word for "the crown", that is to say toj, which would refer to the hats worn by our ancestors who lived in the lands of Sogdiana (Sughuda/Sughd) and Baktria (Bakhtar/Balkh). The hats looked like crowns and so the people came to be known as "those who wear crowns"

Another possible meaning of the word Tajik comes from the name that the Arabs gave to all Persian speaking people beyond the Amu Darya. The Arabs met the Turkic speaking people of Central Asia, and then later met the other major ethnic group, the Tajiks. For the conquering musulman armies, there were only two ethnic groups beyond the river (Mawara-un-ahr), the Turks and Tajiks. For them, the name Tajik sounded very much like one of the important Arab clans, but you can be certain that the word itself did not come from the Arabic; they only realized that there were two different people in Mawaraunahr, the name of one of whom sounded very much like on of the Arabic clans, and the word for Turk already was familiar for them.

We should all realize one thing, and that is today unfortunately there is no defenite record left which could help us trace the word Tajik. During the Soviet Union, a lot of books were "lost", which would allow the new generation of Tajiks understand about their roots, but that was counter to the policy of the government at the time.[/quote]

Both theories have no historical link. Tajik was a Sanskrit/Tibetan word for the Indo Iranian ppl and later on it was used by Turks.

When the Arabs invaded Greater Iran there were no turks in Central Asia.

3J0cbfUd-uE
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Posted 11 December 2007 - 04:14 AM

Aqhai Gul,

I have downloaded this audio and listen all the time. It's great that you have posted it here. Thanks. People, our Tajiks, definitely need to listen to that.

Regarding Jahongir, I would like to ask some questions.

Dear Jahongir jaan, where did you get those information? Dont' say from Wikipedia - just joking. Anyways, can you refer all your sources to us, so we could evaluate the credibility of your sources. Yes, I do have heard about these possible creation of the word "Tajik" but non of them are fully credible. I am looking forward to hearing from you.


Peroz beman,




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