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this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Gabaro_glt Icon : (26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM) Tajikistan was inhabited by the races of Cyrus the great (Sultan skindar Zulqarnain). The achmaniend dynasty ruled the entire region for several thousnd years.Cyrus the great's son cymbasis(Combchia)with forces migrated to Balkh ancient Bactaria or Bakhtar. Sultan Sumus the desecndant of Cyrus the great faught war against Alaxander of Macdonia in Bakhtar current tajikistan.
this ruling class was inhabited in the areas, like Balkh,fargana,alai,Tajikistan,badakhshan,Kabul,Takhar,Tashkorogan,Khutan,kashkar,Swat,Kashmir,Peshawar, hashtnager,Dir, Bajour,Gilgit,for serveral thaousand years.
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Older Than The Egyptian Civilization Rate Topic: -----

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 08:03 PM

By: M. Sadeq Nazemi-Afshar, 2003 - Iran Chamber Society

The oldest known civilization, the Sumerian civilization was a ''Tajik'' civilization

All the Phenomena considered ordinary and evident today have had a beginning. Up to a mere hundred years ago, rockets, aircraft and even automobiles did not exist. We do know about the origins of thousands of inventions and discoveries, but before thet, there had been times when our language did not exist, our religion was unknown, there was no such thing as agriculture, and the human being even did not know how to use fire. Three billion years ago, there was no living creature on earth; five billion years ago, our beloved planet was nothing but a mass of burning gases in the solar system.

Modern science and paleontology have proved that all the creatures living on earth have emerged slowly during millions of years, during which, more sophisticated forms of life have risen, eventually leading to the formation of man as the epitome of creature.

It is a proven fact that the origin of many ancient discoveries and inventions was the man dwelling in the Middle East and particularly a vast part of it, which is known as the Iranian Plateau. This article tries to address the questions about the history of settlement in the Iranian Plateau and how its inhabitants succeeded in being the first how tamed horses, invented agriculture, pottery, use of metals, irrigation methods, and many other things.

During the first 500,000 years of the Ice Age when mankind spread in Asia, huge glaciers covered Central Asia as well as the northern and central regions of Iran, creating conditions, which were not suitable for the life of men. Meanwhile, southern Iran was much more humid than it is today, covered by vast expanses of meadows, which provided a favorable climate for our ancestors. Therefore, before reaching China and Java, mankind must have dwelled in this area for thousands of years.

As a result, it would be appropriate to search for relics of one-million-year-old man in the southern Iranian Plateau. Some paleontologists have suggested that men have reached East Asia through the Persian Gulf, for this waterway totally dried up three times during the Ice Age. Thus men could have potentially crossed this passage. However, the fact that the bed of dried up seas remains arid for thousands of years as a result of layers of salt and a lack of soil formation, makes it highly unlikely that men have crossed the Persian Gulf. The highest possibility is that between a million and 500,000 years ago, men have entered the Iranian Plateau from Africa, beginning a new life in the meadows of southern Iran, adjacent to the frozen mountain ranges of Alborz and Zagros. During the 300,000 years that followed, these men have reached the whole of Europe and Asia through Iran, forming a race; which is today known as the Neanderthal.

The brain of the Neanderthals weighed about 1200 grams, their bodies were covered with hair, and they still had a tiny tail end inherited from their tailed ancestors. Several categories of the Neanderthal predecessors have so far been identified. It is known that the Neantherthals dwelling in Europe totally perished in the last Ice Age, and that the existing man has descended from a branch that used to live in the Middle East, one that is known to paleontologists as Homo sapiens.

The reason for the extinction of the last generation of European Neantherthals was that in the last Ice Age, glaciers in Europe advanced as far as the Mediterranean Sea, destroying the Neantherthals together with the flocks of European deer and gazelles. The Neantherthals dwelling in Asia and the Iranian Plateau, however, were able to survive by migrating further southwards when the climate turned colder.

Considering these facts, remains of men dating back to one million to 500,000 years ago should have been found in Iran. In 1896, Garry Hume of the Minnesota University carried out studies in Baluchestan region, in the course of which, very old relics were found which became to be known as Ladizin in paleontology. According to geological evidence, the tools unearthed date back to between 80,000 and 100,000 years ago.

Another excavation was done in 1949-50, when a group of professors from the University of Pennsylvania found four skeletons of Ice Age men at a depth of nine meters in Kamarband and Toyo caves near the Caspian city of Behshahr. The group put the date of the skeletons around 70,000 years ago, i.e. the Paleolithic period. The skulls showed that the skeletons belonged to Neantherthals, with protruded foreheads and jaws. The lower jaw is about seven centimeters thick, bearing thick teeth. Obviously, the Neantherthals dwelling in northern Iran had migrated to that part of the Plateau after the gradual subsiding of the Ice Age.

Ice Age and the melting of glaciers, the altitude of permanent snow in Iran's Alborz and Zagros mountain ranges rose about 1,000 meters; Large rivers started to flow across the central parts of the Iranian Plateau and hundreds of large and small lakes engulfed the central mountain ranges, which then resembled islands. As a result of the melting of glaciers and the flowing of rivers, the transfer of sediments from the mountains to the Plains was considerable, burying multitudes of primitive men. However, the moulds remaining from that period are the best sites to explore the lift of human beings after the Ice Age, i.e. 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. At that time, Iranians dwelt in natural caves alongside Alborz and Zagros ranges, as well as on hills intact from permanent floodwater.

With the gradual warming of the climate and the drying up of southern meadows, Iran dwellers migrated to the north, with some groups leaving the Iranian Plateau. Many paleontologists believe that the Sumerians and the Egyptians, who founded the early large states, were among those immigrants. In his book " prehistoric Relations of Iran and Egypt", the famous Indian paleontologist Mahrji Bakhaikoka writes: " Group of Iranian immigrants who worshiped the sun, migrated to the banks of the Nile,". In his memoirs, Spiegel writes, " the Iranian civilization is much order than the Egyptian one." the oldest civilization found in Mesopotamia is the Chaldean civilization, which dates back to 4,000 BC. On this issue, renowned paleontologist Dr.Laprier writes: " The original homeland of Chaldeans was Susa (in Iran).

Sumerians and Akadians were their predecessors. The more ancient race, i.e. Sumerians had originated from Tajiks, who at first dwelt in Kordestan province and were known as Kords. This term was later distorted into Khald, then Kald and then Chaldean. These people left Kordestan for Mesopotamia and founded the Chaldean civilization.

Griffith Taylor, a professor of human geography at the Sydney University, Australia, has offered an exhaustive theory on the origin of Homo sapiens. According to his theory, which is called " The Cradle Land", as a result of four Ice Ages, which happened during the fourth geological period, the human race has emerged as four waves from Iran and Turkistan, spreading throughout the world. On the other hand, recent discoveries by paleontologists show that almost during the whole of the fourth period, a large sea covered the regions north of the Alborz, as well as the Caucuses and central Asia, and therefore the possibility of the dwelling of men in those areas before the historic ages does not exist. The only favorable site for men to survive, then, was the southern region of the Iranian Plateau. Encyclopedia Britannica confirms this point, saying that "It may well be proved eventually that the human race evolved in Central Asia or Iran", adding as a reason for such evolution that "the condition of the earth, and its vegetation and animals was such that it encouraged innovation and invention, but not so favorable as to render work and endeavor unnecessary."

In addition to plenty of geological evidence, there are other indications that Iran is the Cradle Land. The alternating, gradual climatic changes and the existence of four distinguished seasons provide the best climatic conditions for evolution.

The first tamed animals, such as the dog, the horse, the sheep and the goat, are native to Iran, and the discovery of the bones of these animals in the ancient caves of the land show that Iranians were the first people to tame animals. In Doosheh cave, near the city of Khorramabad, considerable pictures dating back to 15,000 BC have been found which show men riding horses and holding the animals' reins. The oldest evidence showing the use of horses in Mesopotamia and Egypt, however, date back to only 4,000 years ago. Also, according to researches carried out by Professor Morris Damas in his book, "The History of Industry and Invention", it was the Arian race that first utilized wheeled carriages pulled by the horses.

The existence of rich mines of copper, tin and stone in Iran, the lack of them in other prehistoric sites such as Egypt and Mesopotamia, and particularly the proximity of tin and copper mines in Khorasan - a unique phenomenon in the whole world rejects the possibility of the discovery of metals in any ancient site but in Iran. Production of bronze an alloy made of the copper, tin and antimony, must have definitely been started in Khorasan. In his book "The History of Civilization", Henry Lucas writes that tin is not an abundant mineral, and was first extracted in Khorasan, Iran. The earliest copper melting furnaces, dating back to 7,000 years ago, have been found in the Qazvin Plain (Esmail Abad and Sagz Abad), near Tehran, while the Mesopotamian civilization is not older than 4,000 BC, i.e. 6,000 years ago. In addition, there was no copper mine in ancient Sumer, and therefore the discovery of copper objects in that area is indicative of trade relations between Iran and Sumer in the 4th millennium, BC. The Bronze Age in Egypt began much later, i.e. during the Middle Empire about 2160 BC; it did not begin in China until at least 1500 BC.

It has been proved that the origin of many current languages in the world was Iran. Hindu, Pashtu, Soghdi, Kharazmi, German, Latin, English, French, Armenia, Spanish, Italian, Greek and many of the dead languages originate from Sanskrit, the language of ancient Iranians. Some of the keywords of this language, such as mother, father star and tens of other words are almost the same, with minor variations in dialect, in all the living languages from China to Europe. The global expansion of the languages of ancient Iranians is one of the important reasons proving that Iran was the Cradle Land, from where the immigrants spread their languages throughout the world.

The existence of large reserves of clay all throughout the Iranian Plateau and the archeological discoveries relating the first man-made pottery objects to the land of Iran are a strong evidence for the invention of this craft by Iranians. Remains of pottery found in Iran and Egypt date back to 9000 and 7000 years ago respectively. It is also worth noting that the oldest earthenware made by the pottery wheel as well as the oldest glazed pots have been found in the Iranian Plateau. In the Susa grave yard, which dates back to 5,000 years ago, large water jars have been found which are made by the pottery wheel and with screened soft paste (glaze). The thin, resonating jars are well backed and died reddish by means of applying iron oxide.

More important than all is the fact that wheat, a plant that is considered to be the key to the beginning of civilization and man's true progress in 10,000 years ago, is a native plant of the Iranian Plateau. It must be noted that the early stages of agriculture could have not started on the blanks of the Nile, Tigris or Euphrates, owing to the fact that these rivers are of a flooding nature. In ancient times, those rivers were surrounded by vast marshlands home to various insects, particularly the malaria mosquito, and the cause of the deadliest disease of all times, which made it impossible for men to inhabit. Therefore, early men must have begun agriculture in temperate plains and foot of mountains, and migrated to the riverbanks in more advanced stages, when they could dam the rivers and utilize the water.

The reason of Iranian's emigration throughout the world lies in the discovery of agriculture. With the advent of agriculture and storing foodstuffs between the 9th and 7th millenniums BCE, Iran's population increased considerably, Climatic changes of the next millenniums and the drying-up of Iran's central lake in the 5th and 4th millenniums, BCE, forced parts of the population to emigrate. As regards agricultural devices, Professor Damas writes that the windmill was definitely built in Iran's plains for the first time, where constant winds would rotate them.

Another important invention of the primitive man was weaving fabrics. Damas writes: "In the Susa graveyard, axes have been found which are wrapped in cloths, which have contracted the hue of the axes. Chemical analysis of the cloths shows that they are made of various fabrics ... some are made of linen, with very fine warps and woofs woven in opposite directions. Today's advanced equipment cannot produce a fabric finer than those woven about 5,000 BP".

Last but not least is architecture. The discovery of clay houses dating back to the 7th millennium BCE in Dehloran (Dehlor
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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:42 AM

How come out of the blue Tajiks became Kords or Kords became Tajiks ? It is the first time I read something about that. Kurds are a strange mixture and genetic studies that I have seen show that they are more closely related to Caucasian (Georgian, Chechen, Azeri) than "Iranian" or "Central Asian (ie Tajik)" people. They became absorbed into Media later and maybe the Medes is what he meant, not the Tajiks. Anyone can say anything they like - but this guy does not give the slightest bit of evidence about Tajik-Kord connection. Maybe there is, but where is the evidence ? Anybody can find out ??

[quote=TajMahal;3580]By: M. Sadeq Nazemi-Afshar, 2003 - Iran Chamber Society

The oldest known civilization, the Sumerian civilization was a ''Tajik'' civilization

All the Phenomena considered ordinary and evident today have had a beginning. Up to a mere hundred years ago, rockets, aircraft and even automobiles did not exist. We do know about the origins of thousands of inventions and discoveries, but before thet, there had been times when our language did not exist, our religion was unknown, there was no such thing as agriculture, and the human being even did not know how to use fire. Three billion years ago, there was no living creature on earth; five billion years ago, our beloved planet was nothing but a mass of burning gases in the solar system.

Modern science and paleontology have proved that all the creatures living on earth have emerged slowly during millions of years, during which, more sophisticated forms of life have risen, eventually leading to the formation of man as the epitome of creature.

It is a proven fact that the origin of many ancient discoveries and inventions was the man dwelling in the Middle East and particularly a vast part of it, which is known as the Iranian Plateau. This article tries to address the questions about the history of settlement in the Iranian Plateau and how its inhabitants succeeded in being the first how tamed horses, invented agriculture, pottery, use of metals, irrigation methods, and many other things.

During the first 500,000 years of the Ice Age when mankind spread in Asia, huge glaciers covered Central Asia as well as the northern and central regions of Iran, creating conditions, which were not suitable for the life of men. Meanwhile, southern Iran was much more humid than it is today, covered by vast expanses of meadows, which provided a favorable climate for our ancestors. Therefore, before reaching China and Java, mankind must have dwelled in this area for thousands of years.

As a result, it would be appropriate to search for relics of one-million-year-old man in the southern Iranian Plateau. Some paleontologists have suggested that men have reached East Asia through the Persian Gulf, for this waterway totally dried up three times during the Ice Age. Thus men could have potentially crossed this passage. However, the fact that the bed of dried up seas remains arid for thousands of years as a result of layers of salt and a lack of soil formation, makes it highly unlikely that men have crossed the Persian Gulf. The highest possibility is that between a million and 500,000 years ago, men have entered the Iranian Plateau from Africa, beginning a new life in the meadows of southern Iran, adjacent to the frozen mountain ranges of Alborz and Zagros. During the 300,000 years that followed, these men have reached the whole of Europe and Asia through Iran, forming a race; which is today known as the Neanderthal.

The brain of the Neanderthals weighed about 1200 grams, their bodies were covered with hair, and they still had a tiny tail end inherited from their tailed ancestors. Several categories of the Neanderthal predecessors have so far been identified. It is known that the Neantherthals dwelling in Europe totally perished in the last Ice Age, and that the existing man has descended from a branch that used to live in the Middle East, one that is known to paleontologists as Homo sapiens.

The reason for the extinction of the last generation of European Neantherthals was that in the last Ice Age, glaciers in Europe advanced as far as the Mediterranean Sea, destroying the Neantherthals together with the flocks of European deer and gazelles. The Neantherthals dwelling in Asia and the Iranian Plateau, however, were able to survive by migrating further southwards when the climate turned colder.

Considering these facts, remains of men dating back to one million to 500,000 years ago should have been found in Iran. In 1896, Garry Hume of the Minnesota University carried out studies in Baluchestan region, in the course of which, very old relics were found which became to be known as Ladizin in paleontology. According to geological evidence, the tools unearthed date back to between 80,000 and 100,000 years ago.

Another excavation was done in 1949-50, when a group of professors from the University of Pennsylvania found four skeletons of Ice Age men at a depth of nine meters in Kamarband and Toyo caves near the Caspian city of Behshahr. The group put the date of the skeletons around 70,000 years ago, i.e. the Paleolithic period. The skulls showed that the skeletons belonged to Neantherthals, with protruded foreheads and jaws. The lower jaw is about seven centimeters thick, bearing thick teeth. Obviously, the Neantherthals dwelling in northern Iran had migrated to that part of the Plateau after the gradual subsiding of the Ice Age.

Ice Age and the melting of glaciers, the altitude of permanent snow in Iran's Alborz and Zagros mountain ranges rose about 1,000 meters; Large rivers started to flow across the central parts of the Iranian Plateau and hundreds of large and small lakes engulfed the central mountain ranges, which then resembled islands. As a result of the melting of glaciers and the flowing of rivers, the transfer of sediments from the mountains to the Plains was considerable, burying multitudes of primitive men. However, the moulds remaining from that period are the best sites to explore the lift of human beings after the Ice Age, i.e. 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. At that time, Iranians dwelt in natural caves alongside Alborz and Zagros ranges, as well as on hills intact from permanent floodwater.

With the gradual warming of the climate and the drying up of southern meadows, Iran dwellers migrated to the north, with some groups leaving the Iranian Plateau. Many paleontologists believe that the Sumerians and the Egyptians, who founded the early large states, were among those immigrants. In his book " prehistoric Relations of Iran and Egypt", the famous Indian paleontologist Mahrji Bakhaikoka writes: " Group of Iranian immigrants who worshiped the sun, migrated to the banks of the Nile,". In his memoirs, Spiegel writes, " the Iranian civilization is much order than the Egyptian one." the oldest civilization found in Mesopotamia is the Chaldean civilization, which dates back to 4,000 BC. On this issue, renowned paleontologist Dr.Laprier writes: " The original homeland of Chaldeans was Susa (in Iran).

Sumerians and Akadians were their predecessors. The more ancient race, i.e. Sumerians had originated from Tajiks, who at first dwelt in Kordestan province and were known as Kords. This term was later distorted into Khald, then Kald and then Chaldean. These people left Kordestan for Mesopotamia and founded the Chaldean civilization.

Griffith Taylor, a professor of human geography at the Sydney University, Australia, has offered an exhaustive theory on the origin of Homo sapiens. According to his theory, which is called " The Cradle Land", as a result of four Ice Ages, which happened during the fourth geological period, the human race has emerged as four waves from Iran and Turkistan, spreading throughout the world. On the other hand, recent discoveries by paleontologists show that almost during the whole of the fourth period, a large sea covered the regions north of the Alborz, as well as the Caucuses and central Asia, and therefore the possibility of the dwelling of men in those areas before the historic ages does not exist. The only favorable site for men to survive, then, was the southern region of the Iranian Plateau. Encyclopedia Britannica confirms this point, saying that "It may well be proved eventually that the human race evolved in Central Asia or Iran", adding as a reason for such evolution that "the condition of the earth, and its vegetation and animals was such that it encouraged innovation and invention, but not so favorable as to render work and endeavor unnecessary."

In addition to plenty of geological evidence, there are other indications that Iran is the Cradle Land. The alternating, gradual climatic changes and the existence of four distinguished seasons provide the best climatic conditions for evolution.

The first tamed animals, such as the dog, the horse, the sheep and the goat, are native to Iran, and the discovery of the bones of these animals in the ancient caves of the land show that Iranians were the first people to tame animals. In Doosheh cave, near the city of Khorramabad, considerable pictures dating back to 15,000 BC have been found which show men riding horses and holding the animals' reins. The oldest evidence showing the use of horses in Mesopotamia and Egypt, however, date back to only 4,000 years ago. Also, according to researches carried out by Professor Morris Damas in his book, "The History of Industry and Invention", it was the Arian race that first utilized wheeled carriages pulled by the horses.

The existence of rich mines of copper, tin and stone in Iran, the lack of them in other prehistoric sites such as Egypt and Mesopotamia, and particularly the proximity of tin and copper mines in Khorasan - a unique phenomenon in the whole world rejects the possibility of the discovery of metals in any ancient site but in Iran. Production of bronze an alloy made of the copper, tin and antimony, must have definitely been started in Khorasan. In his book "The History of Civilization", Henry Lucas writes that tin is not an abundant mineral, and was first extracted in Khorasan, Iran. The earliest copper melting furnaces, dating back to 7,000 years ago, have been found in the Qazvin Plain (Esmail Abad and Sagz Abad), near Tehran, while the Mesopotamian civilization is not older than 4,000 BC, i.e. 6,000 years ago. In addition, there was no copper mine in ancient Sumer, and therefore the discovery of copper objects in that area is indicative of trade relations between Iran and Sumer in the 4th millennium, BC. The Bronze Age in Egypt began much later, i.e. during the Middle Empire about 2160 BC; it did not begin in China until at least 1500 BC.

It has been proved that the origin of many current languages in the world was Iran. Hindu, Pashtu, Soghdi, Kharazmi, German, Latin, English, French, Armenia, Spanish, Italian, Greek and many of the dead languages originate from Sanskrit, the language of ancient Iranians. Some of the keywords of this language, such as mother, father star and tens of other words are almost the same, with minor variations in dialect, in all the living languages from China to Europe. The global expansion of the languages of ancient Iranians is one of the important reasons proving that Iran was the Cradle Land, from where the immigrants spread their languages throughout the world.

The existence of large reserves of clay all throughout the Iranian Plateau and the archeological discoveries relating the first man-made pottery objects to the land of Iran are a strong evidence for the invention of this craft by Iranians. Remains of pottery found in Iran and Egypt date back to 9000 and 7000 years ago respectively. It is also worth noting that the oldest earthenware made by the pottery wheel as well as the oldest glazed pots have been found in the Iranian Plateau. In the Susa grave yard, which dates back to 5,000 years ago, large water jars have been found which are made by the pottery wheel and with screened soft paste (glaze). The thin, resonating jars are well backed and died reddish by means of applying iron oxide.

More important than all is the fact that wheat, a plant that is considered to be the key to the beginning of civilization and man's true progress in 10,000 years ago, is a native plant of the Iranian Plateau. It must be noted that the early stages of agriculture could have not started on the blanks of the Nile, Tigris or Euphrates, owing to the fact that these rivers are of a flooding nature. In ancient times, those rivers were surrounded by vast marshlands home to various insects, particularly the malaria mosquito, and the cause of the deadliest disease of all times, which made it impossible for men to inhabit. Therefore, early men must have begun agriculture in temperate plains and foot of mountains, and migrated to the riverbanks in more advanced stages, when they could dam the rivers and utilize the water.

The reason of Iranian's emigration throughout the world lies in the discovery of agriculture. With the advent of agriculture and storing foodstuffs between the 9th and 7th millenniums BCE, Iran's population increased considerably, Climatic changes of the next millenniums and the drying-up of Iran's central lake in the 5th and 4th millenniums, BCE, forced parts of the population to emigrate. As regards agricultural devices, Professor Damas writes that the windmill was definitely built in Iran's plains for the first time, where constant winds would rotate them.

Another important invention of the primitive man was weaving fabrics. Damas writes: "In the Susa graveyard, axes have been found which are wrapped in cloths, which have contracted the hue of the axes. Chemical analysis of the cloths shows that they are made of various fabrics ... some are made of linen, with very fine warps and woofs woven in opposite directions. Today's advanced equipment cannot produce a fabric finer than those woven about 5,000 BP".

Last but not least is architecture. The discovery of clay houses dating back to the 7th millennium BCE in Dehloran (Dehlor
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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:48 AM

Turks in Turkey,Iran, and Azerbaijan use "Tajik" for Kurds and Persians. during the Safavid dynasty the Qizilbash Tajiks,lurs,and Kurds were called "Tajik".
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Posted 06 December 2007 - 03:18 PM

it is prove Kurds are either Iranians not any kind of indo-european origine but descends of semits and later of some iranians. They have an exactly origine in an old nation but they are a confoderation of many people, specially semits. I can post u here some sources abt their genitical origine and their name. Modern Kurds are only iranized by ealier parthians and medians.
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Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:54 PM

[quote=Parsistani;3632]it is prove Kurds are either Iranians not any kind of indo-european origine but descends of semits and later of some iranians. They have an exactly origine in an old nation but they are a confoderation of many people, specially semits. I can post u here some sources abt their genitical origine and their name. Modern Kurds are only iranized by ealier parthians and medians.[/quote]

I thought Kurds are Turks who speak Farsi in Iran and Turkish in Turkey.
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Posted 14 December 2007 - 05:18 PM

[quote=TajMahal;3859]I thought Kurds are Turks who speak Farsi in Iran and Turkish in Turkey.[/quote]

no only a minority of Kurs in Turkey speak turkish because they are indoctrinated and they also identify themself as Turks. The majority speak a middle-iranian language in many branches. In Iran only those Kurds speak Persian who live in cities like Shiraz or Tehran.
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Posted 14 December 2007 - 05:20 PM

[quote=doodooli;3585]How come out of the blue Tajiks became Kords or Kords became Tajiks ? It is the first time I read something about that. Kurds are a strange mixture and genetic studies that I have seen show that they are more closely related to Caucasian (Georgian, Chechen, Azeri) than "Iranian" or "Central Asian (ie Tajik)" people. They became absorbed into Media later and maybe the Medes is what he meant, not the Tajiks. Anyone can say anything they like - but this guy does not give the slightest bit of evidence about Tajik-Kord connection. Maybe there is, but where is the evidence ? Anybody can find out ??[/quote]

That
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Posted 15 December 2007 - 03:11 AM

The genetic evidence links Kurds to people of Caucaus more than other people around them, according to one study. But it is true that they also have an ancient Semitic or related to Semitic background. Tajiks are not at all related to the people of Caucasus. You are probably thinking of Caucasian as in white ... but then Tajiks are not exactly that either ... since most Tajiks of Afghanistan look similar to Iranians, Arabs, Indians ... whereas Tajiks of Tajikistan many of them seem to look different from other Tajiks ...
[quote=Parsistani;3950]That
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#9 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 12:43 PM

[quote=doodooli;3966]The genetic evidence links Kurds to people of Caucaus more than other people around them, according to one study. But it is true that they also have an ancient Semitic or related to Semitic background. Tajiks are not at all related to the people of Caucasus. You are probably thinking of Caucasian as in white ... but then Tajiks are not exactly that either ... since most Tajiks of Afghanistan look similar to Iranians, Arabs, Indians ... whereas Tajiks of Tajikistan many of them seem to look different from other Tajiks ...[/quote]

genetically evidance show the Tajiks of Usbekistan and Turkmenistan close to caucasian people beside the eurpean countries. Also the turkish Usbeks are close to caucasians.

Tajiks in Afg. do not look like Iranians. We have another phenotype than iranians majority population. Our phenotype is close to iranian zoroastrians and the Jat? (hope that is the right indo-aryan tribe) and Rajputs with very strong caucasian medi-terranian elements. We have no Arabs phenotyps since Arabs were threw out of Afghanistan before 750 that
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Posted 15 December 2007 - 01:27 PM

However taht
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Posted 15 December 2007 - 06:05 PM

The tajiks i saw on Khorasan TV look like a cross between Iranians, Indians, and Arabs. Ahmad Shah Massood looked Jewish or Arab (typical nose and teeth). Huge numbers of Arabs migrated to Khorasan after invasion of Iran and there are still pockets of Arabs left in both Afghanistan and Eastern/Central Iran. Large number of Indians also migrated to Central Asia (according to my Tajik Kabuli friend). Many mongol looking people live in Tajik areas of Afghanistan. As far as genetic evidence, a lot of it is flawed, I even saw Iranians genetically closest to Koreans in one study, and another one showing them closest to British - these are all ridiculous. But I am becoming more and more convinced that Tajiks have more Indian facial features - maybe Pashtun influence or some other - closer to Indians (but lighter skinned of course). Iranians are a mumbo jumbo and salad of races, and also lots of semitic/Arab influence is seen in Iran, as well as Turkish Azeri, and native people of Iranian plateau (before so-called Aryans). Zoroastrians of Iran generally are dark skinnes and more Indian looking.
[quote=Parsistani;3974]However taht
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#12 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 06:23 PM

[quote=doodooli;3990]The tajiks i saw on Khorasan TV look like a cross between Iranians, Indians, and Arabs. Ahmad Shah Massood looked Jewish or Arab (typical nose and teeth). Huge numbers of Arabs migrated to Khorasan after invasion of Iran and there are still pockets of Arabs left in both Afghanistan and Eastern/Central Iran. Large number of Indians also migrated to Central Asia (according to my Tajik Kabuli friend). Many mongol looking people live in Tajik areas of Afghanistan. As far as genetic evidence, a lot of it is flawed, I even saw Iranians genetically closest to Koreans in one study, and another one showing them closest to British - these are all ridiculous. But I am becoming more and more convinced that Tajiks have more Indian facial features - maybe Pashtun influence or some other - closer to Indians (but lighter skinned of course). Iranians are a mumbo jumbo and salad of races, and also lots of semitic/Arab influence is seen in Iran, as well as Turkish Azeri, and native people of Iranian plateau (before so-called Aryans). Zoroastrians of Iran generally are dark skinnes and more Indian looking.[/quote]

lol do you believe aryans had normally blue eyes and were flying on pegasus horses?? lol what an idiotic statement. When greecs came to bactria they wrote the first time about the people there. For example one of alexanders writer wrote the bactrians have mostly typical mediterrane features with dark hairs and eyes. About Roxana they wrote her eyes is beautiful black that one get lost in them.
After the invasion of Persia automatically the whole area except Kabul valley were under arab controls but in 750 they were defeated and hunted out of Khurasan. Only a minority stayed in northern Usbekistan who later moved during the Timurids to northern of Balkh (their population takes today some 450 souls). Sure, there were some arabs who settled in Herat and became assimilated, who adopted the persian culture and language but the rest were pushed to sindh and pakistan (punjab and nwfp) where today you can find arab tribes on pashtun society, like the Banochi tribe. However, iranica.com says the arab influence was in whole Iran very minimal. I have posted the whole article here. Just look after it. The arabs lost their most population on iraqis, northern africanians and near east, including Turkey.
Yes we have some indians in Afghanistan but they were brought by Pashtun or they came for trade and they belong mostly to the highest caste. Mostly they look similar to Tajiks, specially if you look to their sweet children faces. It is no wrong to say Indians are one of the purest iranian descandants. And im sure the old iranians looked like them today. However, genetical evidance proves that Tajiks are one of the purest who have also a very high mark of R1M1 beside Kyrgiz as the only nation while in the rest you can
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Posted 16 December 2007 - 07:31 AM

I don't believe that Aryan accurately describes people living today in Afghanistan and Iran and Tajikistan (or India). These are mostly bogus theories that have no solid foundations. People only talk of Indo-Iranian languages with certainty. There may be some genetic markers typical of some groups but genetics is only in its infancy and lots of crap studies exist. I don't see one race in Iran or in Afghanistan, and so-called Aryans are only one of the groups layered over previous people and later over-layered by Turks, Arabs and Mongols to some extent. Because Aryans language dominated it does not mean they are genetically dominant. Turks of Turkey speak Turkic but look Greek or Iranian or Caucasian. Throw all these racial theories out the window and wait 100 years until genetics reaches a more advanced level before judging. We should not focus so much on race, because then we will be very disappointed at how much mixed we are.
[quote=Parsistani;3974]However taht
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Posted 16 December 2007 - 07:56 AM

Not quite. Kurds around Kermanshah are generally Persian speakers (especially nowadays with assimilation), and Shiite in general. Kermanshah has been historically a Persian city in Kermanshahan and is helping the spread of Persian in the region. Some Kurds in Iraq speak Persian also (near Iran). Then some groups like Lurs and Bakhtiaris are basically Persian speaking nowadays, and Shiite, and Kurds claim that they are Persianized Kurds. Then you have Kurds of Norther Khorasan who probably are assimilating into Persian language, since they are a smaller isolated group surrounded by ePersian speakers on all sides. The only solid Kurds are those in Kurdistan Province, and Western Azarbaijan Province - even those have assimilated often into Turkish Azeri language. I have travelled frm Hamadan to Kermanshah and Sannandaj and could get first hand knwledge to cofirm this
[quote=Parsistani;3949]no only a minority of Kurs in Turkey speak turkish because they are indoctrinated and they also identify themself as Turks. The majority speak a middle-iranian language in many branches. In Iran only those Kurds speak Persian who live in cities like Shiraz or Tehran.[/quote]
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#15 User is offline   Afrasiab Icon

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 12:20 PM

Aryan blood of Tajiks is purer than other aryan people, including Persians. We are lineal descendants of ancient aryans. Still, opinion that ancient aryans had blue eyes and light hair is erroneous opinion which is offered by europeans. For example, when at an ancient Zoli Zar - son of king Som Nariman was born with light hair, people named him ugly creature. It testifies, that at ancient aryans had black hair.
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Posted 17 December 2007 - 02:21 PM

[quote=Afrasiab;4028]Aryan blood of Tajiks is purer than other aryan people, including Persians. We are lineal descendants of ancient aryans. Still, opinion that ancient aryans had blue eyes and light hair is erroneous opinion which is offered by europeans. For example, when at an ancient Zoli Zar - son of king Som Nariman was born with light hair, people named him ugly creature. It testifies, that at ancient aryans had black hair.[/quote]

only the urbanized ones, mostly.But surely also they had people with coloured and blond hairs or red hairs. Toward Tajiks such points are wide spreaden. Those who live in colder area since thousand of years their gen mutation
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Posted 19 December 2007 - 01:34 AM

Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said so-called Aryans are blue eyed and blond. This was Hitler's propaganda. Why do we have to talk so much about race ?? Are some people here racist ?
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Posted 19 December 2007 - 10:56 AM

[quote=doodooli;4049]Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said so-called Aryans are blue eyed and blond. This was Hitler's propaganda. Why do we have to talk so much about race ?? Are some people here racist ?[/quote]

there is nothing wrong. If we talk about race or instead saying Iranian/Aryan it is the same. We can also talk about Americans origine.
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