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Purefy Parsi language from Turkic or Pashtu words Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 09:06 PM

I will start (Older words of older dialects such as Bactrian, Sogdian, Parthian should be also used):

Kaka 0 Bego Daa-yi, Maa-maa
Khalah 0 Bego Am-ah
Kitab 0 Bego Daftar or Asb
Chaqu 0 Bego Kard
Top 0 Bego Poloh
Woluswali 0 Bego Karte (Parthian)
Andiwal 0 Bego Dost or Yaar, Shrik and Hamraah
Mellah 0 Bego Yashn (Avestan)
Baayzikel 0 Bego Do-Charkha
Khana 0 Bego Sa(a)rah
Tashakor 0 Bego Sepaas (indgrm.)
Bahadur 0 Bego Palavan, Vaharo or Qahramaan
Pohantun (many different origins; hybride) 0 Bego Daanesh-gaah (''Knowledge'' and ''Place/Land'')
Aina 0 Bego Ding
Daqa 0 Bego Qatra (''moment'', Avestan Hati and Hathra)
Tofa 0 Bego A-yaaft
Aa-khir 0 Bego Abdomaa-en
Adab 0 Bego Abdaa-en
Arj (commander of a citadel) 0 Bego Arg(ha) (Parthian and Middle Persian)
Askari/Ordu 0 Bego Art(a)sh, Sarbaazi, Jangi and Nizam

Take also a look here:
http://tajikam.com/f...le-farsi-words/
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#2 User is offline   Gul agha Icon

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 11:36 PM

Kaka is Persian, comes from Kaaka. In Southern Iran Kaka today means older brother and in Eastern Iran (Afghanistan,Tjk...) it is a title used for ones paternal uncle. Iranians should stop using عمو which is Arabic. The synonym we use for "Daayi" is "Maamaa"

Daftar might be Persian but it is not synonymous with Ketab. In Middle Persian and other Middle Iranian dialects the term for "Ketab" was نپیک "Nupeek or Nepeek" and 'Nepi" meant someone who has a book or has authored a book; Arabics took this term and made it Nabi(prophet).

I don't think Karte is Parthian. Karte is a corrupted version of Quarter and this tradition of naming districts karte started in the 19th century.

Andiwal is another pure Eastern Persian term used in Afghanistan and Central Asia. Andiwal is the colloquial and corrupted version of همدیوار "Ham-deevar".
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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#3 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 10:08 AM

Dorood Gul,

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Kaka is Persian, comes from Kaaka. In Southern Iran Kaka today means older brother and in Eastern Iran (Afghanistan,Tjk...) it is a title used for ones paternal uncle.


That´s new for me. But can you provide a reference to that claim? I also can´t find any word lke that in any dictionary. Kaka like Khala are like my grand-father told me of Turkic origine. Khala from Turkic ''hala'' and ''Kaka'' from Turkic ''Aqa'', to with also the term ''Agha'' and ''Aqul'' is related. At home, we use ''Kaka'' for the paternal uncles and foreigners and Maa-maa for maternal uncles.

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Daftar might be Persian but it is not synonymous with Ketab. In Middle Persian and other Middle Iranian dialects the term for "Ketab" was نپیک "Nupeek or Nepeek" and 'Nepi" meant someone who has a book or has authored a book; Arabics took this term and made it Nabi(prophet).


I also heard that ''Napi'' means Book (but not where I have heard it). The interesting question is how can we integrate it into modern Persian and in all documents in Afghanistan. Let´s write a dictionary here and later we can collect all words and make out of them a volume I: What do you think?

Daftar is used for book and it is of Persian origine. We shouldn´t discuss about a word when it is already in Persian.

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I don't think Karte is Parthian. Karte is a corrupted version of Quarter and this tradition of naming districts karte started in the 19th century.


''Karte'' is Persian. I have somewhere my PDF file about ''Palavi language'' and there it is attested. The term ''Quarter'' seems to have the same origine as ''Karte'', a loan word or possibly just one of thousands of indo-germanic words that exists in all other sister-languages, too. In Afghanistan, Pashtuns used the Turko-Mongolian words for districts and provinces or even villages, particularly ''-khel''. Volusvali f.ex. comes from Ulus, a pure Turko-Mongolian word that was in use even during Djengis Khan´s time. Beside that, our people couldn´t speak or understand English for 100 years ago. The term ''Kart'' for knife is also taken from that word...cutting or making smaller ''quarters''. The arabized words ''qatra'' ''qat'' and ''qatel'' have in their meanings the same origie as Karte.

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Andiwal is another pure Eastern Persian term used in Afghanistan and Central Asia. Andiwal is the colloquial and corrupted version of همدیوار "Ham-deevar".


Interesting. Didn´t know. From which region does it really come? The suffix -wal seems to be of Indo-Aryan origine and thus can mostly find in Pashtu and Pakhtu. Can you give me a reference, please.

Let´s hope, that many people will take part here :) It could make alot of fun.
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Posted 27 February 2011 - 08:57 PM

Here is a reference for kaka. Dehkhuda doesn't state a Turkic origin:

http://www.loghatnaa...6be1037-fa.html


"Flapped or trilled r is replaced by l in some words: dêwâl ‘wall,’ andêwâl ‘neighbor’ (< ham-dêwâr ‘sharing a wall’),"

http://www.iranica.c...loquial-persian
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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#5 User is offline   Parsistani Icon

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 02:06 PM

Dekhoda does not need to explain the origine of every word or state clearly the origine of every of them. Neither it can´t nor it is possible..otherwise it should try on ''Goshan'' and some other words. Dekhoda is not Iranica or CIAO, it´s just a primerly dictionary.

But 1000 thanks to you. I knew in CA Persian language there are many original eastern-Iranian words still preserved but didn´t known really from where ''Andiwal'' came from. It´s nice to know that this word have also a Persian origine, but of an older dialect. But from where the ''an'' in ''andival'' comes? Please, your Persian is at least 100 time better than mine and feel free to paste words with their equivalents.

Thank you.
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Posted 01 March 2011 - 11:07 PM

Khana is a Persian word. It comes from Khanag or Khanak (Middle Persian)
Ba Naam e Khudahvand e Jan o Kherad, Kazeen Bartar Andisha Bar Nagzarad

به نام خداوند جان و خرد، کزین برتر اندیشه برنگذرد
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#7 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:00 PM

Khana is definately persian word. Kaka i think is having india origin, khala is arabic. I am personally not bothered with this purification thing anymore, the only thing which worries me is the differences in vocabulary in 3 countries.
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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:55 PM

Thank you ;)
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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:35 PM

I am categorically against any tinkering with Persian.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of our literature is written in New Persian.
We Persians have a unique gift in that we can open a book of Rudaki's poems from over a 1000 years ago and fully understand every word.

It would be very sad if we were to destroy this historical continuity.

Islam and the Persianate world have three great languages: Arabic, Persian and Turkish.
We should all strive to learn all three.
Anti-arabism is one of the most distateful features of modern persian nationalism; we must get rid of it.
هیچ وقت به خدا نگو یه مشکل بزرگ دارم
به مشکل بگو من یه خدای بزرگ دارم


Go tell the wolves that although the father has been killed,
The father's gun is with us still
Tell them that although all the men of the tribe have been killed,
There is a young boy in the cradle still

Bakhtiari Proverb
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Posted 27 April 2011 - 12:46 PM

It´s not about erasing non-Persian words, just to replace them if it´s possible with Persian equivalences. Just like Firdowsi did for 1000 years ago using Parthian, Bactrian and Sogdian words. Arabic can´t get erased since it´s the language of our belief and it´s holly book and our islamic identity.
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#11 User is offline   Sohrab Icon

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:32 PM

i used to love the idea of purification, but nowdays i believe that purification is not our priority, what we need is unificiation of the langauge in different countries, that is a challenge that can cost us alot in the future.
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Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:33 PM

by the way, can somebody provide Farhange Aamid online? that farhang is good and provides the roots and origin of the words whether it is farsi or not.
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